Tell me, what commodity does a story clerk create? What commoddity does a supervisor make? So, according to you CEOs are proletariat, since they are usually paid a wage, correct? Capital managers are proletariat, stock traders that work for firms are proletariat, managers, supervisors, all proletariat. Literally everyone is a proletariat except pensionists, an when we destroy private pensions we'll have full socialism.
Note how none of that was written by Marx or any socialist thinker, in fact, they quite specifically pointed out that only the creation of commodities was real labor.
What's happening here is that you live in petite bourgeois communities, on petite bourgeois jobs, earning a fat wage compared to laborers, and your vision of socialism is selfish and greedy, you want a higher wage for easier jobs that do not create commodities, at the expense of course, of the people who do create those commodities, aka the real proletariat.
Andrew Long
intelligence is largely inherited intelligence correlates to capital accumulation
but that doesn't justify the scale of exploitation which occurs al least not philosophically
Ryan Perez
The sale of products in the store. Just because they won't be neccecary in a communist society doesnt mean the wage earners in those jobs arent proletariat. They sell their labour to the capitalist, which uses it in some way to produce commodities, be they physical or services. A store clerk is an integral part of the capitalist shop, which sells the commodity of having commodities in an accesible place. Stores take care of storage and transportation of bulk goods for small time sale.
Ethan Stewart
Holy shit, please kill yourself.
Yeah, CEOs, capital managers, stock traders, etc. are proletariat. What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that under socialism capital managers and stock traders wouldn't exist, and managers of all levels would be paid less and answer to the workers they manage.
Jason Barnes
Except it is precisely what you are saying and you didn't explain otherwise. You wouldn't say a CEO who earns a wage is a proletariat, or any capital manager. You try to point out to how little money someone makes to define that that person is a proletariat, not the fact that they have to sell their time for a wage. Productive labor is in making commodities, not just getting a wage.
Like I said, you think socialism revolves around you and that you would get more shit at the expense of the proletariat while having to work less.
Gabriel Turner
I think maybe we should revise who should be going back to reddit here.
Noah Martin
The fact of whether or not you think a service is usefull doesnt change that it is a commodity. If the service if bought, and the person making it is not paid the full price of what it was bough for, he is technically proletariat. The fact that their interests allign with the bourgeoisie is another matter altogether. Rich proles are labour aristocrats, not petit-bourgoiesie. You are only bourgoiesie is you extract surplus value from workers (which most rich people do).
Also youre a fucking faggot who just calls everyone he doesnt like "bourgoies" like a fucking 14 year old dprk supporter.
Earning a wage or not doesn't matter. What matters is if you own productive property or not. Marx and Engels say this over and over and over and over. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how much you get, what matters is if you own something that generates that money. There might be some wage laborers that are well off, but your relative level of wealth has no effect on whether or not you are bourgeois or travaileur.
Elijah Miller
This is b8
Blake Anderson
Read through the thread again, faggot. They are proles, but as I just said, capital managers wouldn't exist under socialism, and CEOs would answer to the fellow workers they manage and be paid much less. Not only is that not what I'm doing, but by your criteria for proletariat, CEOs are indeed proles. There's more to labor than just manual labor. I'd honestly love to see how fast your vision for a society fails when you get rid of anyone who determines where a MoP's resources are allocated and how much to produce, like a manager, or does purely theoretical work with no immediately apparent practical application, like a mathematician.
