Proletariat class literally mentally retarded
All bellow the 45th percentile in intelligence. Typists and certain clerks have a higher intelligence than any proletariat demographic. In fact, the UNSKILLED laborer average is about the same as the trained proletariat.


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The proletariat consists in all people who subsist off wage slavery because the only thing they have to sell on the market is their own labor power. "Typists and certain clerks" are also part of of the proletariat.
Sage for shit thread.

When did we allow this nu-marxist bullshit to spread?

All bellow the 45th percentile in intelligence. Orators and certain bards have a higher intelligence than any peasant demographic. In fact, the UNSKILLED laborer average is about the same as the trained peasant.

I guess there really isn't any other way than a strict hierarchical, absolutist society guided by the divine order of God. Checkaux Mateaux.

If you are not actually making commodities by the way, you are petite bourgeoisie. You are going around trading and enjoying the production of the proletariat. Doesn't matter if you are a wage worker or not. Get the fuck out.


And? You don't have to be a genius for this stuff, fam.

you either own land (bourgeoisie) or you don't (proletariat). simple as that.




Labor was pretty well defined by Marx. Being a Walmart clerk is not being a laborer. Being a cashier is not being a laborer. Those are all petite bourgeois occupations that keep earn wealth exchanging the labor of the proletariat among themselves.

You fags are literally dreaming about a world where you'll get a petite bourgeoisie job for an even higher wage and putting even greater weight on the proletariat. You fags are the antithesis of a productive socialist society.

Wrong. They both create a service (which is a commodity) that their employer sells.

Yeah, I take a commodity I didn't make, I give it to someone else; that means I created a commodity, the act of getting stuff I didn't make is a commodity.

I guess all those business owners are some really hard laborers.

I guess taxi drivers also arent proletarians because they dont produce anything right?


Yeah, and he says that you either have to sell your labor power to survive, in which case you're a prole, or you don't, in which case someone is working property for you, and you're bourgeois. Whether or not the labor is productive or in a "service industry" is immaterial. The clerk isn't any more or less a laborer than a brick layer.

You either have property and live by others working it for you or you're one of those people working that property. It's as simple as that.

Yeah, they are not laborers. They do not create commodities, they just provide a service utilizing commodities others made. Isn't it so fucking obvious?

As I said, none of that fits the definition of proletariat. You faggots are saying that anyone who is poor and can't make much money is a proletariat, that's fucking nonsense. A failed capital manager or someone who utilizes capital to provide a low wage service is not a fucking proletariat.


Proletariat is not synonymous with industrial worker. Besides what does it matter whether tradesman aren't as smart. That doesn't suddenly make it acceptable for business owners to steal the wealth their employees made for the business. Even Marx clearly stated that physically and mentally superior workers should earn more in proportion to their contribution.

Except we're not saying that.
You're either from reddit or trying to b8 us.

Tell me, what commodity does a story clerk create? What commoddity does a supervisor make? So, according to you CEOs are proletariat, since they are usually paid a wage, correct? Capital managers are proletariat, stock traders that work for firms are proletariat, managers, supervisors, all proletariat. Literally everyone is a proletariat except pensionists, an when we destroy private pensions we'll have full socialism.

Note how none of that was written by Marx or any socialist thinker, in fact, they quite specifically pointed out that only the creation of commodities was real labor.

What's happening here is that you live in petite bourgeois communities, on petite bourgeois jobs, earning a fat wage compared to laborers, and your vision of socialism is selfish and greedy, you want a higher wage for easier jobs that do not create commodities, at the expense of course, of the people who do create those commodities, aka the real proletariat.

intelligence is largely inherited
intelligence correlates to capital accumulation

but that doesn't justify the scale of exploitation which occurs
al least not philosophically

The sale of products in the store. Just because they won't be neccecary in a communist society doesnt mean the wage earners in those jobs arent proletariat. They sell their labour to the capitalist, which uses it in some way to produce commodities, be they physical or services.
A store clerk is an integral part of the capitalist shop, which sells the commodity of having commodities in an accesible place. Stores take care of storage and transportation of bulk goods for small time sale.

Holy shit, please kill yourself.

Yeah, CEOs, capital managers, stock traders, etc. are proletariat.
What you're conveniently ignoring is the fact that under socialism capital managers and stock traders wouldn't exist, and managers of all levels would be paid less and answer to the workers they manage.

Except it is precisely what you are saying and you didn't explain otherwise. You wouldn't say a CEO who earns a wage is a proletariat, or any capital manager. You try to point out to how little money someone makes to define that that person is a proletariat, not the fact that they have to sell their time for a wage. Productive labor is in making commodities, not just getting a wage.

Like I said, you think socialism revolves around you and that you would get more shit at the expense of the proletariat while having to work less.

I think maybe we should revise who should be going back to reddit here.

The fact of whether or not you think a service is usefull doesnt change that it is a commodity. If the service if bought, and the person making it is not paid the full price of what it was bough for, he is technically proletariat. The fact that their interests allign with the bourgeoisie is another matter altogether. Rich proles are labour aristocrats, not petit-bourgoiesie. You are only bourgoiesie is you extract surplus value from workers (which most rich people do).

Also youre a fucking faggot who just calls everyone he doesnt like "bourgoies" like a fucking 14 year old dprk supporter.

Earning a wage or not doesn't matter. What matters is if you own productive property or not. Marx and Engels say this over and over and over and over. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how much you get, what matters is if you own something that generates that money. There might be some wage laborers that are well off, but your relative level of wealth has no effect on whether or not you are bourgeois or travaileur.

This is b8

Read through the thread again, faggot.
They are proles, but as I just said, capital managers wouldn't exist under socialism, and CEOs would answer to the fellow workers they manage and be paid much less.
Not only is that not what I'm doing, but by your criteria for proletariat, CEOs are indeed proles.
There's more to labor than just manual labor. I'd honestly love to see how fast your vision for a society fails when you get rid of anyone who determines where a MoP's resources are allocated and how much to produce, like a manager, or does purely theoretical work with no immediately apparent practical application, like a mathematician.

So if I sew coats using linen that I didn't spin I'm not a proletariat?
If I build roads with asphalt I didn't mix I'm not a proletariat?
If I mine gold with a machine I didn't build I'm not a proletariat?
If make furniture with lumber I didn't gather and transport I'm not a proletariat?
What exactly is a proletariat then?
If you work in transport, you are increasing production efficiency of the workers and thus increasing the total product of society.
read this. It's only 30 pages.


"The laborer belongs neither to an owner nor to the soil, but eight, 10, 12, 15 hours of his
daily life belong to whomsoever buys them." - Karl Marx

"Labor-power was not always a commodity (merchandise)." - Karl Marx

Even if he makes a million dollars a year, if all he gets is his wage then yes, he's a prole if you're going by the strict definition. In the real world it's doubtful that there would be such an individual, however.

No, it's based on a material analysis regarding the work that they do and the property that they own. "How much money someone makes" isn't the determining factor.

I think that you'll have a hard time finding a proletarian CEO. That strata of bourgeois society is typically inhabited by property owners, or people that manage to rise to that position that are given property upon entry. For example, Craig Menear

He gets over $7M dollars in stock options just for signing on. His wage is small potatoes comparatively. He earns a wage, but he is not a wage laborer. He owns property the operation of which would sustain him if he decided to stop working. He works, receives a wage, but is bourgeois.

One of the great scams was transitioning from pensions and social security to 401k schemes so that workers could "finance their own retirement." Simply owning stock doesn't make you bourgeois, just like having a garden in your front yard doesn't make you Monsanto.

What matters is if you own property that generates value for you via someone else's labor and subsequently no longer have to sell your own.

Then you built a fucking road. You made a commodity.
Then you made gold, a fucking commodity.
Then you made furniture, a fucking commodity.
You are taking that entire text out of context. What that text was addressing had nothing to do with what we are talking about. Someone who doesn't create any commodity and lives in a capitalist arrangement to earn the commodities made by the proletariat is not a fucking proletariat.

gg communist movement. This shit will never kick off.


this has to be bait. nobody is this retarded.
you've never read Marx.

so is Lucy not a proletariat because she didn't make the wrapper or the chocolate in that famous scene?

fucking retardaru.