MMO stagnation

Guild Wars was the peak of what an MMO could be. Nothing has surpassed it, everything has failed to live up to it.

Too bad it never had a sequel.

So not an MMO?

Well, you needed to be online to play it, it had lots of players, and it was pretty massive. You could even group up with those players to do shit together.

Too bad the community is gone. Now all that's left is Gaia-tier roleplaying in Pre-Searing, and for some reason Kamadan is the biggest city left.

Ultima Online had the best skill progression. Asheron's Call had the best "open world" implementation. Dungeons & Dragons Online had the best game mechanics. All were great games at their peak and had one thing in common: subsciptions with no fucking microtransactions.

Currently playing Neverwinter. It looks better than any of the older hardcore MMOs (pvp mostly) that I've played in the past, and it is free with microtransactions. It's already dying (though I'm not sure if players moved from PC to the Xbox One version).

One thing I've noticed with these free ones is that after so many "class balances" the games just die. Neverwinter did a major mechanics overhaul and essentially rebuilt all the classes from scratch about 2 years in. That killed a huge swath of players in one fell swoop.

I feel like the time is almost right for an MMO that tied into real world productivity somehow. I just don't know quite how to explain what I even mean. It just feels like in the next ~5 years that some massive online "game" is going to come to market that also has some practical application. I dunno I'm going to bed.

Its something so expensive and time consuming that there is very little room for innovation.

You'd figure that with the advent of social media and human interaction fundamentally altered based on their online presence that MMOs would be the bread and butter of this new web experience. Instead, the industry is for all intents and purposes dead.

Are you fucking kidding me

That's an easy one, you just need to look at it a different way.

Why would normalfags sit at a computer investing countless hours into an MMO for that dopamine hit when they could get the same thing from a mobile game while taking a dump?

That's the reason Blizzard is bringing back garrison missions back in Legion; because there are normalfags who will log on, cycle their garrison missions, get a few new shinies, and log back off.

Ironically, WoW stopped being about social interaction once the normalfags became the core audience, and all of the mechanics that encouraged social interaction were phased out and shit like LFG and LFR were created.

They are not stagnating, you are just a child who doesn't understand how complex netcoding is

Not a bad image, it details the several changes the MMO genre went through the year.

You can see in the first set of screenshots that MMOs started as glorified interactive chatrooms, with Furcadia being a prime example of this, if you're not familiar with Furcadia, think of an older Habbo Hotel, but with fantasy and furfaggotry. Also in this time began appearing proper MMORPGs, with Ultima Online being a prominent example. These primordial MMORPGs were quite different to what we have nowadays, not only were they absolutely hardcore, with some even having permadeath and complete loot drop in it's early days in addition to fully open PvP, such as Tibia.

Then came the next era of MMORPGs around the early 2000s, when 3D graphics and action bars started to be used, while also punishing less for the death of the character and limiting PvP, death usually still meant losing exp and having a chance of losing part of your equipment or inventory, not to mention PKing was still a thing, but it was definitely more forgiving than previous titles in the genre, making it more appealing for a broader audience. A few titles that come to mind from this era are Runescape, Mu Online, Ragnarok Online and Everquest.

Then comes what I would call the "WoW era", marked by, obviously, World of Warcraft around mid 2000s. This is the era where AAA companies start smelling the shekels and realize MMORPGs can rake in big profits. It can be seen in OP's middle set of screenshots how actions bars and minimaps have become the norm. This is also the time when the whole concept of "endgame content" is born in MMOs, before this period, MMOs were mainly about the journey, not the destination, the process of leveling up your character and improve your equipment was the goal of the game in itself and it really gave you status among other players to be a high level. Instead now reaching a high level is simply what's expected of you, not something impressive to gloat about, and so the games begin to be focused on content excursively for later stages of the game. During this era, WoW's success leads to it's formula and design being imitated ad-nauseum.

Now we fast-forward a few years and reach the era when basically koreans decided they wanted a piece of the MMO cake too. Only their designs were oriented to be disgustingly grindy and pay-to-win. Not much more to say about these games, some manage to be innovative, but the vast majority doesn't.

Finally we reach the current time, when the WoW formula has already become stale and so the devolopers decide to start making the games more "action oriented", with the skills and spells now becoming all Area of Effect, PvP becoming exclusive to instanced battlegrounds and limiting the action bars to only a few buttons so they can market to consoles. Modern examples include Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online among others.

Ending your condenscension in preposition aside; you're overstating the networking complexity issue.

I thought RuneScape was great, I thought EOC made is even better as it balanced alot of the weapons (Spears on a note where largely useless before EOC)

Bu i just can't stand how gay the cash shop is.

So I quit after 7 years of being a member.

The problem with end game content was it involves a story about EQ and a top raiding guild who cried about "lack of end game content"

the leader of said guild now works at blizzard

is is a verb nigger

Is (N.) (Referring to it as a thing) is (v. 3rd singular present; be) a (article?) verb (noun).

Honestly, Black Desert Online has been one of the few MMO's that I'm personally enjoying. Might just be me, but I wish they'd make Black Desert more like EVE with territory control, in otherwords turning the game into a massive player-run story.

Definitely just you.

Yeah, I'm aware of Tigole, but when you think about it, when you casualize leveling up to give easier sense of satisfaction to the player base, it will inevitably lead to a big group reaching high level, which will in turn force developers to make more content for said group, ultimately leading to the whole "endgame concept". To sum it up, Tigole might have a big responsibility in the way the genre developed, but even without him, it was bound to happen.

This exactly. Like everything else in the world, for MMOs to be good again we must purge subhumans and start over from where we left off in the late '90s/early '00s before the Flood.

Basically go back to FFXI / vanilla WoW and build from there while being mindful of keeping communities together (instead of making everyone disposable via a group finder), keeping the world difficult to navigate and dangerous, in other words, alive (instead of making it into a treadmill that a chink can run on for you till level cap) and having a more organic endgame (other than raids every 6 months and instanced PvP).

Yo, what's the best PvE MMO right now? I was never able to get into PvP focused ones.

is there any effective way to combat shit like data-mining?

Shit like PoE has some pretty broken stuff you can do, WoW is run almost entirely by data mining shit like wowhead, the group finder etc.

Basically, the MMO needs to have an retain a sense of mystery about it, while keeping the no-lifing autists from ruining the high end PvE stuff a la what happened in EQ. It must be a balance that people want to achieve highly in the game for it's own sake not for e-peen reasons of running/wrecking a server's economy.

FF 14

how do good players "ruin" the game?

But user, how will I fill by urge for spread sheets?

Seriously though, I have always enjoyed economics in MMORPGs, it feels like it adds a whole new layer of meta to the game. Hell, I tend to run my own group on multiple games.

BRING IT BACK

If that's the case, I'm glad you spreadsheetfags got another game that caters to your niche.

MMO's are fine user, companies just realized that continuing to cater to losers with no life meant the game would die.

I mean Wildstar tried to pander to those idiots, it failed miserably.

Guild Wars 2 tried to pander to those idiots with Heart of Thorns, it fucked up the game so bad they had to push out a massive patch with nearly 40 pages worth of alterations so the game could be saved.

pre-NGE galaxies is on my list of greatest videogames of all time.

google swgemu

The highest end raiders in EQ basically bottle necked everything raidwise in EQ on the big servers for their own benefit then Blizzard hired them.

Not saying all obsessive players do this but it has happened in the past. It's understandable that everyone wants some sort of edge in the game but it's not as cool when it can hamper the progress of other players.

If you like circles and piss easy fights.
Only held back by the god awful tick rate

I thought Wildstar tried to pander to all the normalfags considering it's "lol so quirky" advertising and artstyle. Oh and being a bad game.

but WoW and most MMOs have 'instances' now, no one can bottleneck anything, their worlds are essentially dead, people just que up for whatever dungeon/raid they want

I don't know and it's depressing to think about, it would have been interesting to see how EQNext would have handled it via randomization and bringing in playermade sections from Landmark.

Other than that, doing away with static locations and being able to actually die and lose experience/loot/whatever for dying does wonders for forcing someone to pay attention to the gameworld vs a map on another screen.

that's PVE in general, dumb AI with a certain pattern to exploit…but fact is FF14 just does it best.

...

Been playing BDO, it's pretty fun.

I guess of all the MMOs, but that's like saying it's the least smelly shit.

I'm actually on it, but I want the population SOE brought to the table before NGE

the only other one i know of is bloodfin and those autistic fucks are way too much for me to handle. their devs and players are just total cunts

I've only played on Basilisk and it was alright though I did hear about Bloodfin being populated by shitters.

Lol at people thinking that MMOs and most other games are shit these days because of 'subhumans' stealing their popularity. Sorry to say guys but it's because developers make shit games aimed at a casual mass audience so they can make more money.

'poor niggers' aren't really the biggest market for games, especially MMOs; it's stupid, white, normalfag kids.

nah not really, circles and awful tick rate truly kill the game pve wise. also the awful interface design. if there is one thing wow does right, its the goddamn interface and its responsiveness.

Basilisk is fine, too bad it'll never have more than 500 players max

and Brazilians and Slavs and Chinese/Koreans

Nothing to discuss as there is a WoW thread going on right now.
MMOs are shit because of yall.
lmoa

Last I played it was usually around ~1000

Honestly kind of scoping out Camelot Unchained, which skips out on the PVE in exchange for heavily focused faction pvp, reading the foundational principles has given me a bit of hope for the game, along with the heavy sandbox elements, and the way the crafting system has been described.

Still, going to go with my usual optimistic but cautious approach, but at least the specific factions look pretty good. As far as I have described to some of my friends was, Arthurian's are England and it's legends, Tuatha De Danann are celtic legends, inspired by banshees, leprechauns, and fey creatures, and then you have the Vikings, which are of course inspired by the Norse legends, including amongst them Valkyries and Ice Giants.

Granted most of my hope comes from just wanting a good MMO to escape from until I can finally build the wall, and statements like this

Now I never really played Dark Age of Camelot, but could any anons on here describe it? Like I said, I'm cautious but optimistic on games these days, but if I"m going to be playing an mmo, I want it to be fun.

Then why play an MMO?

Then why play an MMO?

Then why play an MMO?

Reading this probably just summed up the problem: devs have been trying to make a MMO minus the Massive (Community) and Online part, only to fail miserably each time.

Nigger Desert Online is where it's at

If you want shallower than all hell PvE and Trading constantly being controlled and killed by Devs

Guild Wars is still great for single-player PvE.

Guild Wars 2 does not exist.

GW2 tried to pander to idiots with itself, fucking world of guildwars.

I still play. It does nothing and could be paid with fully with in game gold if you really gave a crap. Quitting because of that is really ridiculous, especially after playing for so long.

That's a sunk cost falacy if I've ever heard of one.

Except you have no idea the extent of it. The thing he's quitting over is the equivalent of scrapping a car after finding a scratch.

Look if this is the straw that breaks the camel's back then so be it.
Also it's a little different because the car is 7 years old, has a leaky floor, can't get emission tests, struggles to go uphills, and every time you take it in to the shop the mechanic screws you over.

Why must you keep talking out your ass about things you don't know?

I wish I had that "I DON'T WANT TO BE ALONE" pic, because seriously

Whatever man. You win.

Haha, you lost an internet argument.

Which is it?

CU does look pretty interesting, I suspect it will become flooded with paganfags of both the new age and the Holla Forums varieties. What faction would Holla Forumsirgins be interested in?

...

MMO's have been stagnating since the 80's user.

Fuck user, those were the days. I completely forgot about Airwarrior

Also, a major part of graphics is animations. It's fair to say that 3D animations in general have become much better since 2006.

As long as MMO combat has to built around the limitations of internet connections, they'll never be good as far as I'm concerned. At best you can get borderline acceptable combat in games where you go into instances of a few people at most, but even that tends to have problems. Otherwise, it's some degree of click'n watch garbage where what you see happening doesn't necessarily have much connection to what's really going on at all. I get that's the best developers can do with the connections players have, but the good of MMOs does not outweigh the terribleness of the combat, it doesn't even come close.

Instances are a way of taking the load out of the main game world

Also in WoW raids aren't something that can be cleared in succession, they have CD periods (or at least they used to, haven't kept up on retail)

There used to be scummy methods of using a cleared raid ID to lock people into that raid ID till the next clear

Pretty much this. Even Planetside 2 is kind of subpar compared to Planetside 1.

Daily reminder that Euotopia is still the best Ultima-styled free MMO.

mmos have always been utter shit and will stay eternally shit

That's exactly how I've been feeling. Hell, things that seem great and convenient things, Looking for group in WoW, killed off finding new people to with and getting to know them because they could be continuous members of your party when you go do things and eventually become good friends, and Looking for raid killed off any reason for a more casual player to try and get into a guild to become a raider on the PvE side. Why would you want to waste all that time becoming skilled at a game? You can just play the easier part of the game, get decent gear, and see the content that's there! Not even talking about how auction houses killed off community interaction even further.

No longer is there a point to being social and friendly, casual or more dedicated player, just be a dick because you don't have to be social and friendly, it's not like you won't ever find a group. It's not like you need a guild, or are ever going to be hurting for money if you know how to trade, the game takes all of that away for you.

The above is my reason as to why I'm hopeless, and I've had my dreams crushed plenty of times vidya wise to completely hope for it. That doesn't mean I really want to see it though, because fuck yeah, I want a game where the community builds itself up around the world and works together to fuck up the other factions, but I also know it might fuck up. So here's hoping.

Also not sure about Holla Forumsirgins, but my brother and I were going Vikings because Dorfs. But the three factions all have some pretty cool races. The classes also interest me because you can pick up things called boons and banes.

For instance with the Wave Weaver (Water mage) class:

Basically standing in fire, getting hit with fiery shit fucks with your casting, but in exchange for taking that get

As a possible example to take for getting screwed over in certain situations you get being able to get good stuff out of it, apparently the class also has the ability to call out torrential downpours outdoors to allow him to get that buff, along with any debuffs enemies would get out of being in the water as well.

So it definitely is going for a more /tg/ approach than what you would usually get. Again, also part of why I'm hopeful, and just for you user, here's a picture of me being hopeful

I'd pay for something better looking.

its 4x1.3k what did you expect nigger

The problem with mmo's nowadays is everyone wants the next "hit," but nobody is willing to put out the resources necessary to do it.

I mean, look at ESO. The developers wanted to make essentially Skyrim the MMO, but Bethesda didn't want to spend money on servers or an actually decent engine so they contracted out for both of them.
The contracted companies basically said they had only so much space and could only use their shitty fag engine that couldn't do anything, so they had to strip out about half their game.

Eh, there are consequences anymore.
Free To Play is trash.
Mmorpgs need an overhaul and go back to being social and FUCKING HARD.
I want conceqences back.
I want underdog players to come back.
I want genuine trolls to come back.
And niggers are not even the biggest problem, it is the billions of KIDS who are allowed on the internet now with NO fucking rules cause their PARENTS are shit, hell, kids dont even have pareents now days.

Fuck it, Holla Forums is right. Mmorpgs are shit because of cultural marxism and kikes. End of thread.

the number of kids hasn't changed over time.
you just got older and think the medium has too.
it has not.

Do you have any idea why the Arthurians and TDD both have 7 races eac, wile the Vikings have only 5 (one of which isn't even revealed yet)?

I honestly couldn't tell you, I sort of assumed it was because they for some reason could draw any other races from the Norse folkore. But that throws me for a loop

Where's Dofus?
Where's MapleStory?
Where's Endless-Online?

You don't have a single good MMO in your image.

Fine man, I'll give you your reply.

The delayed beta 1 and NDA on gameplay footage worries me

EVE

Poor people are the majority.
Poor people are also generally uncultured, unsophisticated, uneducated and devoid of taste.
It's not their fault - it's mostly because they're poor.
Being poor is their fault, though.

They're all the same shit. They're all about clicking away at the enemy and choosing your hotkey skill. There's different stuff now, but the most popular MMOs still have the same gameplay from 10 years ago, and the masses aren't willing to try out new mechanics.

poor people is also what is destroying the internet. notice all the normalfags that write like uneducated monkeys? it's because they come from a poor upbringing. not to mention that most of them are spics and niggers, it just firther shows why poor people shouldn't use the internet.

Sure, if you're autistic.

You fucked it

No, you dumb fuck. MMOs are businesses, and they ultimately aim to get money out of it. What free-to-play MMOs do is they have cash shops where people with too MUCH money blow it all on power ups or useless crap.

If you want to blame MMOS going to hell, blame it on whales with too much dosh and companies that play into letting them spend all their money to rise above the tides of the poorfags, rather than everyone having a subscription and only a subscription to play as equals.

Someone said in another MMO thread last week that MMO's are similar to an addict continually using. Always looking for that next MMO to get the feeling you did when you first started playing, but realizing they're all now fucking shit so you keep chasing the dragon.

Shit always hits me this time of year. Reinstalled Aion and downloaded some unknown Luna Online. Play both for a half hour, log out, and that's it. Sucks. The genre's dead.

Every MMO ever made is fucking shit.

What if, right, what if, what's holding back MMOs is network infrastructure, storage, and plebs shitty hardware?

What if the reason games like EVE are Point-&-Click Adventure games, and not fly-by-wire, is because we can't shit data fast enough from one end of the planet to another, and most people are plebs and don't have enough storage to house anything worthwhile?

Every post you've ever made is fucking shit.

Its not. It isn't and has never been.

Dead.

meant for

What if what's holding back MMOs is my gigantic cock?

Wish we had an MMO where the NPCs were the devs and player factions worked independently of the games design, that way you'll have a giant battle of sword fighting homos vs flaming cheetah skateboarders over in the plains of whothefuckknowswhere and maybe a developer or two fighting in those battles, with the story writing itself as they all fight instead of already having a predestined lore.

I love when people cry about the lack of hardcore MMOs and then won't touch EVE. That shit is as hardcore as it gets.

Personally I'm all about that Guild Wars. Screw the faggots who whined about the instanced world: it was miles ahead of whatever the fuck GW2 is supposed to be.

Because everyone would like to be among the first people to show up in a sandbox hardcore MMO and years later lord over the newbies.

user, there's being HARDCORE in a gameplay sense which is FUN and then there's just being a spreadsheet simulator, which is BORINGASFUCK.

An idea I always wanted to see implemented was having bosses that were played by developer accounts. So instead of having this dumbass computer who can easily be cheesed, you have an actively malicious dev actively targeting the mages and healers and just being a general dick.

People who were ranked exceptionally high in PvP - especially teams - would be given the chance by the devs at different points to do shit like that. So when Faggot Guild #5 wins the World Championship, the devs give them a bunch of temporary accounts as giant fucking dragons to just descend either as a group or individually upon villages and shit for a while.

No respawns, of course.

Wildstar had INSANE requirements for raiding. It was worse than WoW ever was.

thx hotwheels

I shit you not.

IF dark souls pvp would be just random players who already finished the game once, taking over the monsters in a specific area to fight another player, shit would be 100000000/100000000.

But that would ACTUALLY be FUN, so fuck that, amirite?

trashed

casual detected. The only reason you don't find EVE "fun in the gameplay sense" is because the learning curve is beyond you. This is common to any casual facing any core game, there's just a question of how hardcore the game is.

If CIV V was your limit, playing EUIV would just be boringasfuck spreadsheets. Maybe EUIV is your limit, but you can't handle Dorf Fort. Maybe you can enjoy DF, but not Aurora 4X.

In every case, the only variable is you, and your casualness. Deal with it.

t-thanks

Are you an accountant?

...

It bothers me a bit too. I haven't grabbed beta 1 access myself so I can't tell how it'll play, but then again, it's why I am hopeful but cautiously optimistic. But I've had plenty of crushed hopes, so it's more cautious and neutral

Guild Wars is fucking god tier. I used to be baffled as to why no other developer bothered making a clone of it (seeing as its audience is now basically just waiting for another GW, and that's like five million people), but then I learned that it relied on a whole bunch of programming wizardry to run so well and do all that good stuff like the downtime-free updates, viable micro updates, etc, and there probably just aren't any studios up to the challenge of recreating all that stuff.

Monk best profession.

While those are not requirements to raid, the whole attunement thing is fucking bullshit.
Can't even kill the genetic archives bosses without 20+ people willing to try over and over everytime someone messes up. And the pattern is absolutely fucking stupid on those two fights alone.

I went back to fuck around in Arcterra, and the few extra things on the update are fun and way less convoluted. Boss rushes, general content, instances and world quests. They learned that shit as complicated as the attunement clusterfuck doesn't fly, but its way too late.
Anyone plays? Any Holla Forums guilds left alive?

I miss pre-UO:R UO so much. I thought when I quit that I'd just be waiting a year or so before someone made a replacement. 15 years later, even if someone makes one, the quality of the community has dropped so much that it'd never be the same. It's just gone forever.

But that's not unique at all to UO, user.
We'll never have any of those old video game communities back

and people thought the horde's onyxia attunement for vanilla WoW was hard

Partial to Mesmer myself, but Monks usually put up the best fight against me in PVP so thanks for that.

Man with how popular UO was I thought for sure there would be another. Remember how many games claimed to be inspired by UO but were pretty much DOA? Shadowbane, Darkfall, Mortal Online, etc.

Furcadia has barely changed since it's inception in 98.

Yeah, I tried a whole mess of them looking for any that had the spark, none did.

The problem with all the UO successors is they completely missed the point. All they do is throw in full-loot PvP and call it a day.

UO was a full on online RPG, and it's all the little things it had that made it great. Shit like being able to tame nearly everything, or being able to rig treasure chests with traps.

The only thing MMOs have taught me is that I'd rather play minigames rather than the larger game itself. It was true for GW, it was true for its sequel, it was true for RuneScape (when I played it a decade ago), and it might have been true for Black Desert if I had experienced horse racing.

But I don't think those games have much to do with them being MMOs, which leads me to believe that I've played some really shitty MMOs (GW the exception in this case though).

That makes me sad fam.

The thing is, the vanilla WoW is still fucking decent if we look at how well a half-coded server like Nostalrius was received.

Suck a dick, dipshit.

I dimly remember somebody posting a similar picture that had the correct route to take or some shit.

At any rate, Wildstar wanted to both be WoW EZ mode and hardcore grognard shit at the same time and managed neither. Even the porn is shit.

Niggers & Nigger-tiers (cholos, BR) want to play simple games because they're dumb.

Asians wanna play the same game over and over, because they're masochistic slave people.

Jews wanna win (not play, WIN) everything so they pay to be at the top

Whites wanna complain and whine about things they don't like, and enjoy things for simply being different

Russians want to spread fetal alcohol syndrome

Noone is properly autistic enough anymore.

I'd like to point that this attunement could glitch and reset on you and Carbine would just tell people to do it again.

Come on, now.

This

I just an MMO with some freedom

Why do you want to play clanman mode?

Why are most MMO's obsessed with loot and grind and not with using people

Instances are the cancer that killed MMO's. You have to, have to, get rid of instances and make everything open world before you can fix anything else that's bad about modern MMO's.

It's a really obvious problem.

Because whenever I played, I had loads of fun actually having to interact with other players. I managed to even talk myself out of getting killed by groups. One group even helped me with a quest.

I think this problem stems from competition, and competition stems from "Railroading" for lack of a better term.
If there is only one, or a handful, of options past a certain point there will be a lot of competition, which most MMOs solve with instances.
How do you have boss fights for small groups without instances?

Why are you even playing MMO's?

I'd play Runescape, but they ruined crafting by making boss monster drops outclass any crafted equipment by far. They are finally fixing this with a mining/smithing overhaul, but that's not happening until the Fall. Though this does mean inevitable overhauls for every other production skill. Hopefully overhauls after mining/smithing will take less time once they know what they're doing.

Yeah, I know about Tree of Savior, but I don't thing it'll run on my toaster. Nothing could every fully replace SoS anyway…

ToS is shit so… don't worry

Then you're probably not familiar with how the last season ended. Every time a new season starts, there is an initial burst of excitement and a race to the top. Fast forward 3 weeks: 100 players or less on each deadman server, with scouts of big clans like ROT, AC, Leg Ends etc sweeping the world looking for players. When a player inevitably bumps into one, immediately the player count of the server bumps by 25 as clan members smell blood.

There is no item risk for people with a mule. If you hand all your items to another account, your losses on death will be vastly reduced. Most of the people looking to make money aren't doing it to use in deadman mode for trade or skilling at all: the gold swap rates between deadman and OSRS are extremely nice and so they find a swapping clan to take their gold and give them millions in OSRS. Also, boxing has never been fixed so it is incredibly easy to tank out a skull. It's a fucking mess, and there is no point in getting involved.

Sort of related, but I'm curious about Tree of Savior. It goes free to play on the 10th I believe, and I wanna play it with a couple friends. Is it solo/duo friendly? I

No it's really awful. It's solo friendly if you want to grind for years. They nerfed field exp again recently. So you just grind until you hit dungeons and then grind that until it stops giving you exp.

and shamelessly stolen from another thread

Basically there was a very set progression and as soon as you hit the next set of classes, all of your older skills were invalidated unless they were buffs/passives because for god knows what reason all damage skills had a "skill damage" which invalidated a lot of the lower ones outside of wonky glitchy interactions.
No player trading outside of the wait 48 hours before you can even see your posting auction house.
An EXP penalty for killing shit above your level as well. so you had to grind in exactly where they wanted you to

Dang, I'll still try it out since it's free, but it really seems like they want you to visit dat cash shop lol.

When EVERYONE has to do something, and only 5 at a time can do said thing, competition is a problem.

So how bad is Tree of Savior? Is it dead already? I think I remember seeing a general for it here a month or so ago, but haven't seen it lately.

I just want a comfy MMO to sink some time into.

Then make rewards proportional to contributions made instead of rewarding whoever tags first or something. There are ways around that problem that don't involve completely axing massive player interaction.

Pretty sure it's dead based on how quiet Holla Forums is. It's just another theme park MMO with the illusion of build customization and Korean levels of grinding.

It's just another Korean MMO. I have no idea why Holla Forums was excited, those games haven't changed in 20 years.

If I want to waste my time with autistic people, I have Holla Forums.

MMOs are obsessed with making content instead making a big world for you to do whatever in.

Basically this, but with videogaming and the internet as a whole.

Man I really want to like it but it feels so wooden.

Nexon Darkages man.. 1999. Best MMO at the time. Its free 2 play at the moment but doesn't have the charm the original release had.

Nexon made awesome MMOs back then, Shattered Galaxy, Elemental Saga were amazing.

I don't want a revolutionary game right now, because no one is competent enough to make it. The root of the genre's problem is the reigning doctrine that the only way to improve it is to blow the greater part of the budget on "intense" action combat and visuals, and then trying to marry that imagined requirement with a game that isn't even lobby based. The action ends up flashy but repetitive and based around spamming skills, to the point it's no better than tab targeting. The game world is breathtaking to behold, but full of invisible walls and instant free teleportation to any number of banal fields full of nondescript gathering spots to farm purple crystals. Makes you feel like you're just there to appreciate the work of the disgustingly overpaid 3D artists for ten minutes and then fuck off. And every time I install GW2, Tera, FFXIV, that's what I do.

Devs should do EQ clones with updated graphics and nothing else. That's the most complicated design goal you can fucking trust them with.

To be fair, those things are incredibly similar
The real problem is that they don't care about the multiplayer part, and are more interested in making sure nobody ever has a bad time for any rreason

I'm looking into playing Ultima Online, but I'm not giving EA my money, so I'm going to try a private shard instead. Is Excelsior a good shard to play in?

How do "survival" games fit into this? They aren't MMOs but they're large (50+ player) MP games with permadeath.

If you haven't played UO or Meridian 59, you know nothing about MMOs and their potential as a genre.

The only distinction there is the lack of official servers and optimization for ridiculous amounts of players
So really, it's not much of a distinction

meanwhile I'm just over here playing EVE crusading a genocide against all Goon-kind and enjoying some of the best lore I've seen in a long time.

Yeah we need someone to remake the classics to get the ball rolling until someone is smart enough to expand on the concepts in MMO's rather then just simplify and remove content so the stupidest person can get everything in the game.

Sounds like autism to me

endless online is still kicking?

what about Graal?