Why does Holla Forums hate Otto Stras.ser and the Black Front so much? Have they even read Germany Tomorrow?
Plz don't bully Otto
I don't hate him, but he should have seen what Hitler and the NSDAP leading circle was really up to.
He’s only good for conversion of both the right and left. I have never met someone who read Asser remain a follow of his for more than 3 months.
Still a massive antisemite and his modern followers are just fash with different aesthetics.
I think there's a massive difference on levels of anti-semitism if you compare what you see in Mein Kampf and what you see from Stras.ser, since Stras.ser writes of Hitler's "inhuman anti-Jewish campaign" and saying stuff like "Antisemitism is dead. Long live the idea of the People!". The latter quote is from 1928 according to him. He even advocates for a Department of National Minorities in government and mentions things such as assimilation as a possible solution. Maybe an antisemite in the modern sense
Didn’t he advocate for everyone having an enthostate or am I looking through too much Holla Forums Kool-Aid?
He was a class collaborationist.
Strässerism is social-democracy without the democracy.
Stras.ser advocated for a European Federation / voluntary union of European states, also supporting self-determination for areas like Austria, Sudetenland and Danzig. I can't find exactly what you're talking about but he does mention race to a degree, but nothing about "muh purity" or "muh mixing" This quote is interesting actually:
Source on the quote? I ctrl+f'd it in my book and didn't find it, but maybe it's from another though
I figured that would be the main point of contention here. I've always been confused on what is inherently wrong with class-collaborationism. Is it somehow unworkable in praxis? I tend to view things through a national-lense and that may have something to do with any short-sightedness that I may have. In any case, I'll have to be hitting the Holla Forums reading-list more often to get a better idea
plz don't ban me mods
It's antithetical to class war and the establishment of a classless society.
Why the hell are you on a socialist board, then?
I don't want to be locked in the hellhole that is Holla Forums all the time
Which is exactly what the rulling class want a would-be socialist to do. "Ach nein the worker knows! We must collaborate against… eh the jews/muslims/russians/poles/whatever. Just don't touch my profits"
See the problem now?
I would even say nationalism arose almost exclusively as an anti-communist ideology due to the pressure from the working class in the 19th and 20th century.
Those are all good points, I never meant to say that capitalists should be allowed to run rampant on the people just because they are from the same country, I would disagree that mindset completely
I see what you're getting at, it makes sense
i don't hate him, but i'm not really sure about him. he said a lot of things i could agree with, but if he was sincere he would have joined the kpd or uspd instead of the damn nsdap. everyone could see what the nsdap was up to in their first program already and they were basically run by a number of oligarchs, including germany's most influential media mogul of the time, by the mid 20s. what's more, in the 1930s Asser dumped all his socialist views and became a full class cuck/opportunist.
not in germany though. it kind of started here as a patriotic grassroots movement against napoleon. i think from then on the ruling class(es) exploited and used it to control and push public opinion in favour of wars and reactionary politics.
I'm not really talking about how it started, but how and why it was fostered into what it became. Some degree of patriotism against invaders did exist, but it wasn't untill the workers started organizing against the capitalists that it became necessary to push class-collaboration through nationalism.
This. I’m an ex-Strasserist
What were you before conversion? What won you over? I've felt like I've been on a leftward drift for sometime now
So were plenty of other important leftists like Bakunin, Proudhon, etc. Even Marx was a bit of a self hating Jew, and the USSR was antisemitic as fuck.
t. A guy who actually read Germany Tomorrow
Otto was a democratic socialist.
He did not believe in private property.
He was disillusioned with social democracy after a social democrat group he was with put down a labor strike. This happened when he was very young.
Well since we know he certainly was not a fascist in the economical sense, I suppose that leaves only the political aspect of crypto-fascism.
He denounced state socialism.
He denounced militarism, commenting that the “Irresistable urge to die” that tantalized fascists during this time should be resisted.
I’m not a Asserite by any means but he really wasn’t that bad.
I guess his new followers (all ten of them) are crypto-fascist, but that’s only because they became a Asserite after they read the Wikipedia page and went “Nazism AND Communism? Sign me up!”
I'm also an ex-strasser. You likely still hold some spooky nationalism and possibly anti-semitism disguised along with muh hwite babbies.
The revolution must be Global. Workers all over must work together rather then German workers against Polish or French workers cause muh ancient territory, Nationalism is pushed as an anti-worker solidarity stratagy and most of all has no basis in Materialism, if a reason you are gonna go against international worker control of society and the abolishment of the State is because you stil think being born into the same land and speaking the same language somehow makes you superior to others or worth putting German interests over Worker interests then you're still classcucked or love ghosts since Class is a reality and the Nation is a made up arbitrary thing which spawned out of property rights and feudalism.
His pendulum of history theory is also stupid, people don't just arbitrarily become left or right wing because they were the opposite 50 years ago. Material conditions aka what is around you, define you as a Person rather than what tongue you speak. If you don't feel closer to a Black Marxist worker then a factory owning neo-imperialist because one has a lighter skin colour and a different accent something went wrong or your still judging people based on bullshit. Judge people on their self, their actions and class consciousness rather then their Colour. Give Thomas Sankara a Google search and tell me a Society full of people both White and Black like him would be bad because muh multiculturalism.
In my Asser days i was just yet to read theory and didn't believe multiculturalism would ever work because cultures clash when the truth was Classes clash. Racism and such are tools used against us to divide us into hating eachother.
The wordfilter exists for a reason. The Asser brothers are a textbook example of how spooks are inherently dangerous to good, constructive politics. They never stood a chance against the Hitlerists, whom had popular superstition, mysticism and status quo convenience on their side.
The Soviets went full ☭TANKIE☭ for a similar reason. Stalin's cultural policies were often contrary to communist ideas, but gelled with the sensibilities of conservative normie citizens and made him more popular.
I wrote the long ass cat post.
I did the whole altright thing.
Full Commie now
Good post, user. The wikipedia page on Stras.serism is really dishonest and lacking a lot important details. Maybe I'll edit it one of these days
Because 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧communist ideas🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 are garbage
Much like your posting.
As opposed to?
user said he was a "massive antisemite", and I think he was proven wrong, at least on the "massive" part
So what? You realize antisemitism has a long history that goes far back before adolf hitler, right? That includes plenty of figures on the left too. Look at how Uncle Joe called jews "rootless cosmopolitans", for instance.
So why should anyone give a shit about this non-socialist again?
I'm ideologically similar to a Str*sserite. I've always been left-wing and authoritarian, recently i started calling myself nazbol and Str*sserite. Sadly, these labels are frowned upon on Holla Forums. As of now, i'm somewhere between Str*sserism and Barclianite Not Socialism. I don't believe in class collaboration, and i'm no racial supremacist. I'm fully socialist, and really hate state capitalism and corporatism and faux socialism because i view these ideologies as poison to any good nationalist movement. I'm about 3/5ths nationalist. Still, i'm no communist, but would prefer communism over capitalism. What happened with the Str*sser bros is incredibly sad, with Gregor dying and Otto becoming class collaborationist, and their subsequent ideological loss to faux socialists in Germany. The world would be a much better place if one of the Str*sser bros were chancellor of Germany, and i say that even when i am farther left than they undoubtedly were or would have been. Anyways, i could never get away with posting on Holla Forums, and my time on Holla Forums has only driven me farther left, even though, despite all the reading i have done, i have not even considered communism or anarchism. Still, i think my story might be relevant. I like Str*sserism, and have for a while, and reading more has only solidified my beliefs, while reconciling them more often with far left ideas. Thoughts?
"Rootless cosmopolitans" is hardly an anti-semitic description. All communists should considder themselves rootless cosmopolitans.
The way 'rootless cosmopolitans' is used is generally referring to Jews as parasites or part of International Jewry though
oh please, it was used as a euphemism regarding jews.
So what's with the racial separation of society into national minorities, just sounds like anti-racemixing Hitlerism with more steps and less hate. Or do you believe Multiculturalism just dosn't work for some reason on the basis of different people just not working together instead of class being the real divider here. Or do you think your culture is special for some reason and worth shitting onto others for?
Why are you a nationalist in the first place? Do you think your country is better then another based on whatever language you speak and culture you follow? Do you just want to take pride in yourself and the place you live in in? In that case you don't need nationalism for that, I would call the USSR and it's citizens proud of their collective achievements but I wouldn't call them Nationalists based on whatever language they spoke.
Because you're still a spooked Nationalist, why should you put your nation full of capitalists and people who speak the same language over other Marxists? What difference does their skin colour or the language they speak effect you,unless you think you're better ?
Why should a German worker and a Polish worker not work together for the betterment of all the working class? Why should a German worker only work to benefit Germans and why should they be willing to go to war and slaughter other workers for trivial events of Nationalism.
It's workers of the world unite for a reason, not workers of the White world who speak Slavic variants unite and protect our interests against the German workers and their interests
He's not socialist enough is my biggest problem with his ideology.
the whole reason i became leftist is because i love multiculturalism and absolutely hate forced equality and sameness and cultural and racial destruction.
Because i want to make my country great. This is a major reason to be leftist too. I also want every nation to be great, but after i get done with my own. Nationalism isn't as important as smashing capitalism. If i have to be internationalist to make my country great by destroying its enemies, so be it. But i'll be nationalist again once capitalism is dead.
I love multiculturalism but i want quasi ethono-states where minorities are forced out of places they live and forced into areas with people like them simply on the basis of their race and identity meaning by definition it's not multicultural and if these minorities don't move out they can't even vote in the white people areas because the beauty of the Aryan women must not vanish from the Earth because white people are being genocided and their culture destroyed. Also I'm first and foremost a Nationalist over a global worker and I put in place racial and cultural policies which make my arbitrary cultural and racial grouping supreme to others in the designated white ppl area and my followers were quite happy to fight against Communists. So Pretty much I'm Hitler with the genocide option off and i don't like Capitalism and like some Socialism but not too much because then my entirely subjective "peoples" wouldn't be nationalists even though Nationalism is actually a really fucking stupid thing and you can be proud of yourself without sucking off 500 year old medieval knights. And if you haven't guessed I'm also lowkey racist and equate some refugees moving into Europe as racial genocide and I will quite literally kill and racially discriminate against people who threaten my autistic pride, whenever or not their Marxists. I also don't believe in Materialism and believe in the hard times make good men and good men make decadent times meme and my party was complacent in the enabling act which basically made Hitler a unofficial dictator even after the Communists couldn't vote a whole year before the night of the long knives.
But I'm a leftist. Why don't you Guys like Asserism, They were for democracy too!
Also this post sums it up too.
Despook yourself on nationalism
multiculturalism / multiracial societies is totally shitty and retarded capitalist bullshit.
USSR and China would like a word.
lol fucking niggers amiright?
Jesus, user. Chill out. What's wrong with believing races are different if you believe they all have a place in society and that none of them are superior to another because they each have different strengths and weaknesses?
Their not, outside of skin colour and some other small meaningless shit which all humans deviant on. Then to go ahead and discriminate against people based on these small deviants and to politically restrict them is a completely shitty thing to do and is based upon out of date 19th century racial theories. Where's the province for tall people, the beauty of the amazonian women shall not perish from the Earth due to Jewish capitalists breeding out tall people
Because we should all be living by From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs which is exactly what you've said without randomly restricting people's rights if their skin shade is a tone too dark. Yeah you're basically still Holla Forums but you've read into some capitalism but you can't get off the nationalism dick or Nazi racial theories.
This could be coming out of George Rockwell's mouth and I couldn't tell the difference, it's the exact same bullshit Nazi's try to say to get Black people on "their side".
the USSR also had hundreds of native minorities many of which weren't white
wtf is that
If Asser came to power, he would have probably allied with Stalin. If you've ever played HOI4 you know Berlin-Moscow alliance is impossible to counter. The world would be a completely different place today.
Strasser hated Marxism though, but I don't know what he would do if faced with the choice between the capitalist west and the USSR though
On second thought I think you're right. If I were him and anti-Marxist I'd still choose the USSR and Stalin over imperialist powers any day of the week
Honestly, I don't really care for what spooks you might hold regarding races and the like. As long as your for an actual socialist society, you can keep such opinions as long as your not aiming to use economic structures to enforce them, or to use those opinions to justify enforcement, upon others. Generic racism is not my concern, economics are, and socialism isn't everyone getting along and liking each other. Just be prepared in an actual socialist society for people to have the ability to tell you to fuck off or to disassociate with you for whatever opinion you might have.
On nationalism, my opinion on nationalism is lukewarm and one based more out of necessity. As in, I see that in some cases nationalism may be necessary to secure and motivate countries against outside capitalist forces. We aren't here to play nice and we don't have the time or resources to be utopians and jump straight into communism or form some anarchist commune that will only end up existing for 3 months. We have to do what is explicitly necessary and centralize all the production that we have so that we can match and stand toe-to-toe with the established capitalist system, which may very well mean using nationalism and nationalization to do so. That doesn't mean I believe in a hierarchy of nations or that my nation should rule, but that we should recognize the reality that those we oppose will do whatever is necessary to hold on to power, even going as far as to ally with and utilize individuals and groups that they may find personally appalling, distasteful, or even a threat, as long as that threat is determined to be less a threat then us. That also doesn't mean we should ally with everyone though just because our enemies will, there is a clear difference between a necessary "evil" and an unnecessary liability a camp I put liberals under. Once nationalism is no longer useful, it should be dropped as a praxis.
Image somewhat unrelated
tankies believe in class collaboration when the chips are down or when they decide that nation is oppressed and not a big bunch of mean westerners
A Asserist government could be justified given anti-imperialism and whatnot, what can't be justified is them sitting there and saying their done and will continue to have a state and cart minorities off too segregated areas even when all imperialism has been removed off the planet just because they wanna continue being Nationalists.
Imagine if North Korea just decided it's gonna stay like it is forever even after the Imperialists and counter-revolutionaries go away even more they were going to start segregating people via race. No Marxist would like them then. Also Asserit's would be fine with spreading their own Socialist imperialism upon other nations and minorities if the country called for it since they've constantly stated their Nationalists who just use some Socialist economics and governing style. They are irredeemable unlike North Korea which is just under direct attack from imperialist powers
It's wrong because a high lQ "white" has more in common with a high lQ "black" than with a low Autism Level "white". Likewise a "black" fast runner has more in common with a "white" fast runner than with a "black" slow runner. What's wrong with treating people like individuals?
His economic policy was Juche before Juche was a thing. He obsessed over self reliance of the state and had the retarded idea of removing all prisons and just executing or expelling or giving fines to criminals. Still better than Hitler though.
this point should be emphasized more, everyone trying to rehabilitate stras with "its not so bad" fails to see that once you're antimarx, nazi anti-communism consequently follows. History would follow the same path.
Because straßerism is used by nazis to pretend to be socialist, so they can be racist, sexist, antisemetic and support hierarchy under the guise of "we hate jewish capitalists".
Read a book, nigger
I dont need your smugness around here if you cant read yourself. I said straßerism, the name, ideology and flag, is used by nazis that way, even if straßerism isnt really that.
I should address that I didn't necessarily support Asserism, just that nationalism may be necessary.