We need to talk more about the importance of discipline and self-discipline on the Left

We need to talk more about the importance of discipline and self-discipline on the Left.

When I say talk, I mean repeat it until it's widely understood that you can't be a leftist if you're going to be lazy. Leftists nowadays take "leftist" as synonymous for a number of values, we need to add discipline to the mix.

Sorry, but it's the #1 thing. Too many generations of progressives that preached hedonism, lifestyleism, passive symbolic "resistance", and ironic detachment have made us forget this fact, but it's true. Change comes when we have the discipline to come together and act together in a cohesive and efficient manner, and when we have the self-discipline to cultivate the skills and the knowledge that will assist this new organization.

Sharing memes on social media where "workers control the means of production" is the punchline but at the same time not making any plans or preparation to actually study the theory behind this and other slogans is not funny, talking about how you always give Kapital a go but it's so confusing!!! is not cute. Talking abou the Middle-East once a year but not keeping yourself informed on a daily or weekly basis is not being well-informed.

And people love to dismiss this by making reference to the imaginary blue collar Regular Joe who works 2 job and has a family so he has no time to read fancy theory books or learn new skills, but that's mostly never the case. Most socialists become socialists when they're college-aged, and seem to have plenty of time for social media, drugs, and internet boards. So stop being a bum and go grap that Marxist reading list you bookmarked and start working your way through it. Network with other socialists, learn something useful for propaganda like video editing skills, and become physically active. If you're not doing that, you're just dead weight.

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I agree with this; capital isn't even that confusing. Pretty straightforward, imo.
Then again I'm only in on the first volume.

I agree a disciplined, organized, working class movement is necessary, but, at the same time we shouldn't just crush; appear to want to crush humanbeings under the boot of history, though.

We need to rember these are people not elements of history.

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The left as a whole needs to take itself more seriously, and that means following set rules and standards for discussing leftism with outsiders and conducting conversation with insiders.
Self-discipline is self-respect and by extension, respect for leftist thought. If you don't have one, you don't have any of the others.

Please leave anarkiddie. If you don't get onboard the steamroller, you'll be flattened by it.

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I've thought the same for a while.

The problem is, narcissism and lack of emotional control have become cemented into western culture for decades now. Go to any leftist group or party and all you'll encounter is everyone's ego clashing like bumper cars. People set standards for others which they refuse to hold themselves to, people continue to partake in capitalist ways of life and make excuses for it, comrades can't handle any criticisms, the list goes on. There's no imperative to behave otherwise. If you're going to set the moral example for others -as a revolutionary - you ought to break from the attitudes and behaviors of the mainstream capitalist society, especially given as to how said behaviors se directly influenced by the capitalist mode of production and its ideology.

I'm not Litvish (obviously) but I've become a bit interested in the texts used by the Mussar Movement, which stressed extreme caution regarding personal behaviors, honesty, demanded care for others and the environment, rigorous Torah study, etc. Something similar should exist for comrades.

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בואי לישראל, אין לי פה שמאלנים ששווים את הזמן שלי. אוניברסיטת (ועיר) תל-אביב היא מרכז דוחה לאיד-פול וריאקציונרים באותה מידה. הקומוניסטים ואנרכיסטים שיש פה לובשים את זה כמו מותג אופנה, והשאר הם ליברלים אידיאליסטים חסרי תועלת.

See that's exactly what I'm talking about; No one wants Joseph Stalin forcing his boot down everyone's throat. If you can't at least agree to have checks and balances in the government or keep constitutional rights, even if they are "bourgeois" we're never going to get anywhere.

If that's the case then you're just larping and ain't no body got time for that.

This is why litteraly the whole of the left condemned Lenin.

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Excuse YOU.

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Chaya you haven't answered can i still be your boyfriend if i'm a goyim

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Make a face reveal chaya, pls

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I agree with this sentiment. I think we should start organizing book clubs here to help people set aside time to read and to have useful discussion and perspectives.

Also, Zizek makes a very valid point about discipline and respectability. In today's political situation with the alt-right, kekistanis and Trump presidency, we on the left need to carry ourselves with more integrity and character then the Pepe loving LARPers. We aren't going to be taken seriously and win over people if we're engaged in 'meme wars' with the right.

Being well dressed and groomed, speaking clearly and plainly about our ideals and goals, having good etiquette, encouraging self improvement, these are all things that leftists should be doing.

So hold on you don't believe in evolution? Why on earth would you use the Hebrew year date?

I think the question to ask is: How do groups become disciplined? How I act myself strongly depends on the environment I'm in. I used to be an lefty youth group, and people always came too late or went early. At first, I was pissed about that, but over time I got used to it and also started not to care anymore about being a few minutes late myself. (Of course I'm never late at work. That would have serious repercussions.) When meetings don't even have a clear beginning and end it's hard to get anything done in such an environment. Those loose hang-out things have their charm too, and I don't believe that literally everybody who took part in those would have taken part in more rigid meetings, and I think you can do both types of meeting alternating, but the rigid style of meeting is much better for getting things done.

Bad idea.

This is an example where the individual cultivation of self-discipline and learning to taking our tasks seriously would be a necessary condition for mass work to be effective.

It's hard to organize 100 people who, by themselves, never go beyond their comfort zone when engaging politics.

Marx hated that dude.

People already act extremely disciplined, depending on the environment they are in.

Marx hated pretty much everyone tbh

While you can will your way through Capital, I'd say start with periphery knowledge first. It helps you understand what is being said by marx rather than just drudging through it.

Having discipline to fulfill, say, the physical part of a military training, in an environment where there's a direct risk and reward to it, an hierarchy of command, an structure organized around that task, and a general expectation of you fulfilling said training is completely different from having the self-discipline necessary to pursue physical training on your own, with your own research and according to your own plan and organization. Same thing goes for studying in school or being self-taught, working with a boss looking at you and working on your own project, etc. We're never going to have authority over people, so we have to teach them to cultivate self-discipline first.

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Honestly a bit ironic that you say this while referencing Žižek.

Rosa Luxembourg for starters.
She was extremely critical of Lenin.

He was, for the most part, considered a right wing deviation.

Chomskyite spotted

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Despite their disagreements she did not condemn him. Some would even call them friends.
Even if you were right though, it would mean nothing for your statement that LITERALLY THE WHOLE LEFT condemned Lenin.

she criticized his approach but it was nowhere near condemnation, and they remained friends up until her death

You are not wrong to the extent that Lenin challenged orthadox praxis at the time, but he was not villified as you think after it was clear that our comrades in Russia were going to be successful.

Get a Palestinian gf. Do you really want to marry a religious nut vs. a woman whose entire culture was born of national liberation?


Well he was agreeing Lenin and his idea of 'polite, and disciplined communists' and its relevance to the left today.

Strongly disagree with that take. First, to a large degree it is in the eye of the beholder whether somebody has self-discipline or not. When somebody puts a lot of work into a goal that I think is totally asinine, I have to admit it doesn't immediately occur to me that they have self-discipline, it takes a second or third look. I'm not saying whether somebody got self-discipline is all relative and subjective opinion though. When a person does a lot of regular work for something that only has a payoff in the long run, we can say that person has self-discipline. But people with such a strongly self-driven personality also tend to be stubborn, that's just the other side of the coin. And this causes problems in groups that decide on activities together.

fug, meant to reply to:


the only socialists i rly trust are richard wolff and noam chomsky

no dat shit always ends up cringeworthy

social media is for normies, i liked the days of msn and aol better

coffees aint dat bad

wat rong with dat

i lift

im not going to cum together w/ a bunch of Holla Forums trolls

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Cringed hard.

The left of 100 years ago had reasons to be disciplined; they had success. Today we're dealing with threats to worker power beyond the wildest dreams of revolutionaries in the past. I doubt Lenin or his contemporaries could conceive of things like Google and militarized police forces, constant surveillance and corporate owned media. Being a leftist in 2018 is profoundly depressing because we've inherited a legacy of defeat and powerlessness. It's much easier to be political normie and never question the path society is on. The modern left is where you end up when all other conceivable political activities seem pointless, and it's no surprise button down professional types never get that far.

TLDR: Give people a reason to be disciplined and effective activists.

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He was his son-in-law

Lenin was nazbol, let say it clear.