Why are leftists so weak?

The right is winning, let's do some math:
(1) Trump's election.
(2) Brexit.
(3) Italy has moved right.
(4) Austria has moved right
(5) Poland + Hungary are right.
(6) the right has made parlimentary gains in Germany (of all places)+ France+ Holland & Sweden in September.

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Other urls found in this thread:

ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjFstz2j4baAhUFuVkKHeYyAREQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw092z8_72ZxCyXGMv3Y1WW7

Ok, so tell me, who destroyed fascism again?

Every single other election was won by leftists. All of the world laughs now at drumpf and brits and the next election american congress will be full of democrats.

Ehm the conservative right wing governments of the U.S & U.K?

bait

You don't say

and none of those are, will bring about, or will lead to any real success for facism, white nationalism, nazism, etc.
you have no more chance of real change than we do. you're trapped in the belly of the machine right alongside us.

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But, you're missing the point.
The left is losing ground, the right is gaining. Explain.

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These are 3rd world countries who live on EU life support.
Liberal Merkel was elected.
Liberal Macron won.
AHAHAHAHAHAH this is really what you think when a literal socialist is prime minister of Sweden despite muh refugees.

And Trump turned out to be just another establishment neocon. WINNING

Did you even read my post?
I said gained, Merkel win months ago yet was only able to form a government couple of weeks ago.

Again macron won but even he's had to admit leftists policies have been an abject failure that has destabilized the continent of Europe.

Like one of the reasons Europeans are so willing to try the right is because leftist policies have broken up the continent.

Explain how you're winning?

Tell me how your winning?

I didn't know the proletariat owned the MoP in Europe.

I was being sarcastic, Trump is shit

really seizes my means

This is very sort sighted view. Right wing populist had landslide victory (23%) in Finland. After they got power in goverment everybody could see how incompetent and stupid they are and now have only 7% support left. Hungary and Poland are special cases because of their poverty.

But none of you are addressing the fact leftist policy have destabilized Europe

To all the dumb fucks not saging, sage ffs. Fucking hell

...

What country in Europe has seized the means of production?

Why?
Like if your arguments are good & hold up to scrutiny then debate me?

Like I train, & teach young classes, when training we realize bag/pad work is good but only for technique & fitness, for them to get really good they have to spar.
Why can't you do the same?

Massive 3rd world immigration is not leftist and let's face it, once that's no longer an issue, *any* support the Right has will evaporate.

top kek. which one?

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Only thing destabilizing Europe is right wing nationalism that is a tool for Russia to destroy European NATO/EU alliance. Divide and conquer.

But it's only implemented by social Democratic parties, so how is not leftist?

Like the right wing is not calling for it.

Italian here. This isn't news. Italian have always been politically right.

...

Its centrist and extreme right wing is monarchism/fascism.

You keep saying fascism but that political thought was brought about by a Italian Socialist

Mass immigration

...

When you read a book you understand that words can have different meanings depending on its context and users. To a leftist fascism means something else than Holla Forumsyp memes.

Sorry mate not catching your drift

Okay. I'll bite. How exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that mass immigration is a "leftist policy"?

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fam you're straight up retarded if you think macron is anywhere near the left
he's firmly on the right

See this is another leftist thing, constantly redefining terms/language.

It's the equivalent of someone who believes in the Bible using the Bible to debate a atheist.
The atheist doesn't believe in the Bible so what's the point in doing it?
Have to use common agreed upon language in order to communicate

How is every drive-by Holla Forumsack so fucking dumb that they think Europe is left.

So are you saying that the other guy who used macron to debunk me is wrong?

The thingy about Holla Forumsyps is that they are so retarded that they think every word has only one meaning.

what lol? hitler and the nazi party (both then and now) have proclaimed that they're socialist too. does that make Holla Forums a bunch of commies? we're not ~redefining terms and language~. that is literally what you're doing by implying these disingenuous propagandists calling themselves socialists to gain political clout with the working class is real socialism even if it doesn't reflect any socialist theory that came beforehand whatsoever.

Social democracy which means left.
I also it anyway one not Marx or Lenin doesn't qualify as left enough for you?

Just because X party, with Y leaning or Z name or B history, does something, doesn't mean that it is automatically representative of the ideaolgy as a whole.

social democracy is just capitalism with more government programs for poor people. it literally isn't socialism

i like how Holla Forums keeps flipflopping between socialism being minor socdem concessions and hyper-stalinist gulag land and then cries at us for redefining terms and language

It's very simple. 'The Left' is failing to demonstrate its value to the majority of the electorate. Having your friends agree with you vigorously inside your bubble doesn't mean a god damned thing if it's just the people inside your bubble agreeing with you. The left, such as it is today, is largely responsible for the majority of the things that many people across the world see as 'the big problem' of this generation, and the right is seen as the only ones even trying to provide solutions. You may not agree with their assessment, but that doesn't really matter to them when they're stood in the solitude of the voting booth.

Actually no I agree with you, Hitler was leftist, he nationalized the means of production by proxy, using state owned companies & he ended freedom of speech.
Up until the 70s it was widely accepted that the Nazis were of the left, then the Frankfurt school decided it was bad PR in
Began petitioning academia to begin saying the were right wing.

The only right wing values the Nazis had we're nationalism & that the traditional family should be the staple of society

>Implying social democracy is a bad thing
Oy vey we god a commie jew.

you'd have to be under 1,000 layers of ideology to only want to "maintain your quality of life" regardless of what that means or implies

Well done, you actually seem like you're able to actually see what's going on.

Liberalism is right wing but traditional conservatism (the european one with dictatorship and extreme nationalism) is far right. Liberal democracy is left wing compared to this.

nazis did nothing but privatize though. the word "privatize" was literally invented to describe what was happening in germany when the nazis were in power. you have no idea what you are talking about

*privatization

Would you like to try again?

It's not being implemented or called for. It's an organic result of uneven global development, regional destabilization largely due to the imperial activities of the west, and the increasing pressures of climate change. It's looked upon favorably by the neoliberal technocrats of Europe, who may or may not call themselves social democrats, as it injects cheap labor onto the market which can be used to further erode the gains of the post-war welfare state and it aligns nicely with their cosmopolitan pseudo tolerant worldview.

Yes, that hip new thing all the Liberals are advocating for is squashing Union and Labour rights, killing commies and re-affirming the nuclear family unit.

Winning.

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No you don't know what you're talking about, he seized the means of production by proxy under state owned companies.
SOCIALIST

What makes you think I don't? So you are just gonna assume how I am and what I do? Idk about the rest of Holla Forums but I myself work out, so you just assume I'm a no life and that you are so much better cause you "train and teach young classes"

Winning

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Yes, what a great socialist hitler was… which is why he killed all the actual socialists?

liberal != leftist
he debunked your claim that the right (AKA Le Pen) was winning
Macron is neither left nor your flavor of right, he's economically very right wing and socially liberal (with some weird royalty fetish)

But it is being implemented & called for.
Go on YouTube & look at politicians speeches & Lefty's marching with signs saying"migrants welcome"

It's there in plain sight in front of you.

So far on my time here I've seen 1 poster who seems to grasp what's going on & how the right are the only ones offering solutions.

No he killed Communists.
He hated them & their international ideas.

...

Nazi Germany privatized the largest banks and railway companies in Germany. Along with vast swaths of the shipping industry.

Yes he "privatized" by proxy, they were government owned companies.

FFS STOP BUMPING THIS BAIT SHIT YOU FUCKING MONGOLTARDS MY GOD jesus fucking christ

Why what's your problem we're having a healthy discussion.

Let me guess, you're Antifa right?

You're shit at falseflagging, Holla Forums

The baboons are going back, baby!

How'd yeh mean?

Liberals are not left-wing, Democrats belong in the same mass grave as Republicans do. hth

Democrats dont even count as socdems but they are still better option than le drumpf meme.

So let me guess, you're communist or anarchist?

Shut the fuck up, liberal.

Bullshit. There was pretty much nothing socialist about the Nazi regime. HITLER INVENTED PRIVATIZATION.

ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf


Mussolini USED TO be a socialist in his younger years. The Doctrine of Fascism EXPLICITLY REJECTED SOCIALISM AND MARX.

those are liberals not leftists

Government firms have existed throughout the entire history of capitalism.

I'm not being smart but you're showing your ignorance a bit there.
So Mussolini didn't actually come up with fascism, he seized on it when it was already developed

Your reasoning there basically amounts to "I'm not familiar with this use of XYZ term, therefore you're changing the definition." That's completely fallacious.

Which the Nazi government sold their controlling shares of and relinquished control to private investors.

It all leads to jewish supremacy. The supremacy you cucks pretend doesnt exist.

Revolutionary communism is not a realistical option in any 1st world country and if i have to pick sides between social democrats or liberals/conservatives i always pick the most left wing one.

No they didn't.
Look I know this a hard pill to swallow, but the Nazis were Socialist.
Look I debate people on Holla Forums about this all the time & thankfully more & more are recognizing that at the end of the day, as much as some love him, Hitler was a Socialist. Oddly enough it's equally hard for them to accept as alot of you leftys

You are ok if your own nationality fuck your wife and use you as a slave?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany


>Earlier, Hitler had restated his economic intentions in a 1931 interview with Richard Breiting, singling out the 13 point plank of the Not Socialist 25-point program, which he declared “demands the nationalisation of all public companies, in other words socialisation, or what is known here as socialism.”[45] Hitler however contradicted this with privatization of industries

TL;DR Hitler was at most a welfare state capitalist. And no, the presence of a welfare state does not automatically mean "socialism"

Healthy discussion? Healthy? This? Ok, if you aren't being ironic, you are actually retarded

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( ( ( Wikipedia ) ) )

...

LITERALLY ANYONE here is either a communist or an anarchist, you massive fucking retard. Holy fucking, can't even troll properly, please fuck off back to Holla Forums, you dumb fuck

Wikipedia?
Seriously?
I can go on that now & edit it.
Wikipedia is hardly a scholarly source.
Like I said when the Frankfurt school decided it was bad PR for the Nazis to be identified with the left, the left began doing mental gymnastics to disavow them

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pls be a joke

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Thing is I'm not actually trolling.
Having sincere discussion.
Like if you're a Communist, then WHY DON'T YOU FUCK OFF TO NORTH KOREA OR VENEZUELA & LEAVE THE REST OF US IN FUCKIN PEACE!!!

Then provide your sources saying Hitler was socialist, also that quote wasn't said by Hitler, it was said by Gregor Asser, who was part of the left wing of the nazi party, and Hitler had him killed btw, so if Hitler killed people of the leftwing of nazism, imagine what he did to actual socialists.

Then fuck off to austria maybe? Dumb nigger

Sure thing buddy.
You drown in here either way.

OH THE IRONY

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It's objective truth that Nazi Germany had wide-reaching privatization programs, at a time when even the most capitalist nations of the world were averse to the practice. It is also objective fact that large capitalists existed in Germany and were influential, like Krupp. The means of production didn't belong to the workers, in fact labor unions were crushed in Nazi Germany, and replaced with a pro-Nazi front.

Private property existed in Germany, means of production weren't seized, worker movements were repressed, capitalists were powerful.

Your argument meanwhile is literally covering your ears and going "nuh uh, you're ignorant"

Jeezus, the cognitive dissonance.
Ever read transcripts from Nuremberg???

I suppose he didn't say those either??

An unsourced Holla Forums meme is an even worse source. At least with Wikipedia, you can find a source.

Also, that wasn't said by Hitler, that was said by Gregor Asser. Do your homework instead of relying on memes for your information

Also, here's an academic source. ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

scope to devise their own production and investment profiles. Even regarding
war-related projects, freedom of contract was generally respected; instead of using
power, the state offered firms a number of contract options to choose from. There
were several motives behind this attitude of the regime, among them the conviction
that private property provided important incentives for increasing efficiency.

Don’t forget hitler was a Muslim. Here’s a quote proving it.

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Your main problem is that your argument rests on, at best, what Hitler is supposed to have said. What he did is far more important and telling what whatever bullshit he might have said.

Also


60-70% of their economy is privately run, genius.

The government owned those companies, they weren't in private hands.
And yes private property existed, so what?

Like you do realize you've a Communist flag, so your ideology has killed conservative estimates between 70-100 million, realistically 100+ millions…

My question is, how do you sleep at night?

they literally were

so nazi germany wasn't socialist

okay you're just baiting here good one

I hate Islam as much as I hate Socialism, so that's double the reason for me to hate him, what's your point?

Weird because their population growth shows no such toll of death. I guess math is lying.

Source?

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So basically, since you can't come up with a single source to back up what you're saying, you're resorting to personal attacks and goalpost moves?

The point he's making is that anybody can spin a quote out of their ass, put it in a meme and go "See!? That proves I'm right!!"

No they weren't in private hands.

Seems I've hit a soft spot, what's wrong, Don't like people holding you accountable for the blood letting you support?

How bout go read the Nuremberg transcripts!

Being in private hands is the literal definition of private property

Please, I'm begging you, for your own good, go back to pol, please you need it, your echo chamber needs you

That's not an argument. And whatever is said in those transcripts doesn't change historical facts regarding what the Nazis actually carried out in terms of economic policy.

Uh yes, they were. The state grip on the German economy didn't tighten until 1938 with Schachts removal and the introduction of Gohring's firm.

This is why democracy can’t work. These retard polbabies have the same voting power as you. Fml.

What do you think private property is?

Source?
Google :Stalin,ze dong, Khmer rouge, Castro, north Korea…do your own fuckin research

Telling somebody to google names is not a source. Actual historical research and records are.

So the state owning companies & the people who work for them owned their own cars…how is that hard to understand?

go read the research that was posted in the thread multiple times. nazi germany sold out massive amounts of shares for a large number of state enterprises, making them privately controlled

repeat after me: NAZI GERMANY IMPLEMENTED PRIVATIZATION, now give me PROOF it didn't

you have a child-tier understanding of nazi germany as this ebin totalitarian machine that controlled everything like in a paradox game and made everyone walk in lockstep, except you think that is a good thing. whereas reality is a bit too complex

i'm not even gonna address the hundred gorillions until you prove nazi germany had majority state ownership of MoP

But they did.
public enterprise in the world, bringing together most of the railways services operating within Germany. The German Budget for fiscal year 1934/35, the last one published, established that Railway preference shares worth Reichsmark (Rm.) 224 million were to be sold.
give support to the Nazi Party before it won political dominance. In 1936, the Government sold its block of shares, amounting to about Rm. 100 million, to the United Steel Association.
google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjFstz2j4baAhUFuVkKHeYyAREQFjAAegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw092z8_72ZxCyXGMv3Y1WW7

Sickener, because you know full well…

You didn't answer my question, how do you sleep at night?

*blocks your path*
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM

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If that's meant for me, just gonna say, can't make any of it out…

Mods, can you please anchor this shit thread and ban this retard? Also, for the love of god, if you're gonna respond, PLEASE sage damn it

That is not an argument.

I'm not even a supporter of the Marxists-Leninist governments you cite. But your arguments are incoherent at best and dishonest at worst. The "examples" you cite have been simply unbacked assertions and image macros without a source. You do not know how to argue, and you visibly do not know what you are talking about. The rest of us have provided actual historical research to back up our claims, and all you have are memes, immature shrieking, and goalpost moving. And not only that, but now that people are offering evidence for their claims and you have none for yours, you simply shift the goalposts and call us all supporters of Stalinist murderers. You are not the debater you think you are.

Right click -> open in a new tab on the images for the full resolution.

Yes we know well that the Soviet and Chinese populations grew steadily and typically 100 million people dying see population reductions, not increases.

i am not discussing the death tolls until you prove that nazi germany was socialist, goalpost-moving faggot

Question, how many of Marxs seven children died from poverty related illnesses?

Question, under what system of government did Marx live under :^)

Ooh definitely touched a nerve, how's it feel to be responsible for multitudes of innocent peoples deaths?

Can you provide a source for this?

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RIP to the millions of Axis soldiers

A capatalist system, whereby if you don't go out & work you starve…

He let his own children starve instead of going out to work… that's the type of man you worship, HE LEFT HIS OWN CHILDREN DIE IN POVERTY!!

concession accepted

also it feels great to be responsible for the deaths of millions of nazis and tsarists tbh

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all those countries were far right to begin with, dumbshit.

If I was a Nazi maybe that would hurt me.

So you worship a guy who let's his own children starve?

So you worship a guy who let his own children starve?

Capitalist*
You starve under any economic system if you do not work. However, under socialism, he would have been provided a stable source of income from a reliable job and not have to rely on unstable streams of income afforded to him by capitalism.

how is marx's children dying of poverty not proof that he was fucking right about capitalism?

especially considering his living conditions in london were so poor because he was fucking exiled from both germany and paris by reactionaries

His children didn't die of starvation. They succumbed to fairly common diseases for the time. They died when Marx first moved to Manchester and was forced to live in the slums until he could get a steady income. Once he did he provided a very comfortable middle class life for his remaining children.

Urban pollution, hunger and disease were rampant in 1800s industrial society, retard. Why do you think people had lots of children? Read a fucking book

Why should the state be responsible?

THEY WERE HIS CHILDREN & HE WAS A SHITTY PROVIDER

No no no, he sponged off his wife's family, he was a fat cunt who beat his wife & made her write letters to her family begging for money!

You think the father of these kids is just a shitty provider?

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That's what all you liberals say until the next crisis hits and you run off to Daddy Keynes

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marx's children died because he was forced to live in the slums after being exiled from two countries, in the middle of 19th century when filth and disease were common, and infant mortality was an everyday fact of life even for affluent families and nobility

read

a

fucking

book

Hmm the other guy was right. Reported.

Yes I do because I wouldn't bring children into that environment

Irrelevant goalpost move. And even if it weren't, the fact that they died under capitalism wouldn't necessarily make the point that you apparently seem to think it does.

I'm not really concerned with where the income stream came from but obviously once they were able to afford to live in good conditions they did and the rest of his children grew up comfortably.

Your argument that Marx was a bad father was that he didn't let his underage children participate in dangerous and often exploitative child labor practices?

Do you even know what you're saying?

You've gone off the deep end.

You have no argument. You are simply throwing a fit.

This thread and OP are a justification for gulags

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you have to go back

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Smells of pseudes. I must be in (heaven).

Hi, I'm Saje, and I'm here to tell you why you're objectively stupid for not just killing yourself.
Think again if that's your philosophy. To be is to need, and to need is to suffer. It's basic arithmetic. Literally 2+2. If you don't commit suicide, you're a loser just like me.

Also Trump's tariffs fucked my business which sustains with Chinese imports, so I'm running out of options. If yall remember me, you should be glad that I'm edging closer and closer to the rope.

To die is an eternal exit. I don't know how I feel about it, but all a continued existence will do is exacerbate that uncertainty. I fear all things, to the point that if it were in my power, I would annihilate and disperse all things to the minute particles of plasma they were, casting whatever was into the endless void as the smallest and truest things, and they would sustain endlessly.

All I do is work and drugs. Why would I out myself as such a piece of shit? Because the thought of someone reading my words is enough gratification for me. Even if you call me names, even if you ignore me, my words will remain here, steadfast anchors bedded in the psychedelic underworld. As you are a god in your mind, so too am I in mine. I see noble people in alien landscapes, but how alien could they be if it were my subconscious that was the architect? Will I shepherd these lands beyond the grave in a sort of fractal unwinding of being? Will I become a god that is a part of God? Or will I simply become the hum something cast out to nothing forever? Stay tuned.

Tuned, they shall stay, as well, because it is a small few with the mettle to actively cure their state of being alive. I am still an inferior being, fearing the grave and all its implications, but my life up to this point has been preparation for that, and will be beyond it. Some may spend their whole lives in preparation, taking no action in the meantime.
Procrastinators.

Strength is of body, but for the minds of the universe, they are divided into "inferior" and "less inferior" to the world ending power of their fruits. We are thankless creators in all paradigms. This tripe you call conversation is an escape the same as any media. Visiting this website literally makes my monitor smell like cum. Cum from people grabbing at eachother's knobs.

Do you consider yourself a brave man? What is bravery? Is it noble stupidity, or crosshairs on the greatest game? Are you brave for killing yourself? Is there bravery in tyranny, or in the resistance thereof?
None of these are bravery. Your bravery was murdered the day we as a species stepped out of ignorance.
Bravery is a metallic taste.

all that soy

Go to bed, OP, pubescent boys need at least 8 hours of sleep for optimal development.

But centrists keep telling me leftists control the culture and education and the leftist ideals are still on top

Remember bill C 51? My country's already fucked.

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yeah I mean if you're a western European and have nothing to lose you just go for low hanging fruit that's just at your level. Trotsky is burning in hell and Stalin is laughing

something something people something something not the idea

sorry but urbanite college shmucks can take a trip to S-21.

in all fairness a vote in America is essentially the same thing, voting for the interest of Jews and capitalism. nothing ever got accomplished by just towing the party line and making reforms, especially in the long run. it comes out of a gun, not the idle shuffling of papers

in a social sense yes economically no, in a just world it would be reversed

that's actually correct

"Gregor Asser" nice word filters, faggots, keep it up

Hamas are cool but cowtowing to Israel was bad optics. Turkey should also pull out of NATO and it should be disbanded and money used to house the homeless. serves no purpose in the post-Cold War. the wall fell almost 30 years ago. it's time to move on.

you would know everything about little boys wouldn't you. ya sick fuck.