"IT WASN'T REAL CAPITALISM"

Caleb Ramirez
Caleb Ramirez

if you pay taxes or follow government regulations you don't own the means of production! America is SOCIALIST!
no Capitalist nation exists on this planet today
we haven't had capitalism since the Gilded Age!
How is this autism countered? If someone is truly dumb enough to think America is under socialism what can you do? Ignore them? This retard has 220K subs

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Timestamp 31:45-33:40

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Christopher Bailey
Christopher Bailey

was there ever a point in history in which no taxes existed?

Dominic Morris
Dominic Morris

Even socialism has taxes, being anti-tax is literally being anti-civilization, but none of them realize this.

William Martinez
William Martinez

It has probably existed in one form another, like tribute

John Allen
John Allen

Capitalism couldn't exist without military support. No Royal Navy, no capitalism. No American Navy/Air Force, no capitalism.

Joshua Lewis
Joshua Lewis

being anti-tax is literally being anti-civilization
this same argument is used by liberals to justify a higher sales tax without touching the income or corporate tax

Ryan Russell
Ryan Russell

But there were taxes and regulations in the guilded age.

Also, I'd honestly just ask why he wants to bring the guilded age back. Shit was terrible back then.

Anthony Adams
Anthony Adams

no shit taxes under capitalism are shit and don't make sense, that's the flaw of capitalism, not of taxes

Christian Wright
Christian Wright

it wasnt real capitalism
who fucking wants capitalism lol

Tyler Lewis
Tyler Lewis

To understand socialism, you must first understand capitalism. That’s fundamentally why most pro caps don’t understand socialism. It’s because they don’t understand capitalism. There is a difference between “not real socialism” vs “not real capitalism”. Not real socialism is more specific and grounded in reality. They don’t say not real socialism because the society isn’t “equal” or that the “government didn’t do it”. Both of those assertions would get you laughed out of leftist circles. Equality is abstract. Believing that what ever the government does is socialism would mean supporting capitalism and the protection of it. Socialists recognized the overlap between state bureaucracies and corporations. “Not real capitalism” does on the other hand think like this. Voluntary trade is not capitalism. Voluntary is abstract while trade is nothing unique to capitalism. It only sees things in a metaphysical binary. The only way to beat pro capitalists is to bring them to reality. Dismiss “voluntary” to be meaningless. Saying we achieved communism because two inmates are in a prison cell is just as ridiculous as believing the two inmates are in capitalism free because they have a choice to read, do jumping jacks and choose not to eat certain foods they give you. Capitalism is a real historical material thing that is beyond the individual’s control or perception of it. What makes socialism is through changes of material conditions. What doesn’t make socialism is perceiving it through your mind. Capitalists in the other hand see capitalism as immaterial. The free market is just an immaterial philosophy applied to economics.

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Nolan James
Nolan James

Here's another good one on him "debunking" socialism. Why haven't there been VRs attacking him?
youtu.be/Q_ol0hVnFtI

Jason Bennett
Jason Bennett

even socialism has taxes
These guys would like to have a word with you.

memes aside, I know that necessary deductions from labor are technically a tax on labor output which was literally what Marx suggested in CotGP, but the DPRK and Albania were the only states in history that abolished taxes by bourgeois standards

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Eli Johnson
Eli Johnson

Why haven't there been VRs attacking him?
VRs? Virtual realities?

Justin Russell
Justin Russell

Video responses

Landon Lee
Landon Lee

memes aside, I know that necessary deductions from labor are technically a tax on labor output which was literally what Marx suggested in CotGP, but the DPRK and Albania were the only states in history that abolished taxes by bourgeois standards
Do you know why though? It seems so roundabout to me for an ML state to have taxation instead instead of deductions from labor to fund stuff like healthcare, education and pensions.

Wyatt Bailey
Wyatt Bailey

At some point ye just gotta throw out the whole fuckin' nation.

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Mason Lee
Mason Lee

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Camden Davis
Camden Davis

You either have taxes like Cockshott suggests, or you undervalue labour and subsidize popular things like food and dwellings. So either direct taxation or indirect taxation of broad offset of values by multiplying values of everything by a number slightly larger than one is a way to ensure that aggregate output of society reaches those who are unable to contribute in any way, such as the chronically ill, the children, the elderly who are unable to work.

Offsetting this by squeezing profits out of hugely productive industry to pay back for all the other inequalities is shoddy mathematical trick that has always bitten the people in the back. Cockshott speaks about this causing the lack of incentive to innovate the industry, to lessen the work load by introducing mechanization and automation.

Samuel Lilley written in this in his book Automation and Society, where he explores latest advances of soviet automation in engine piston manufacturing. Citing this as a one plant build in automation in mind from scratch. This indicates an order was placed for this thoroughly automated factory. Organic demand for automation arising from the decision and request of factory organizing comittees or managers was not present.

In fact the factory bureaucrats were hesitant to innovate and automate as it might endanger the money flow towards wages. This was mostly discussed in criticism of factory management by everyone who ever saw it while living under the communist party rule of bureaucrats and nomenklatura. But one thing is to be given to those politicians. They did not let people fall to the bottom of incredible poverty and drug abuse. Everyone was given a rightful place in society's production which ensured material well being. Today the material well being is not a right but a privilege.

Of course I would very much welcome if I had more credit to actually be able to make this criticism. For example wikipedia article on Albania states that before starting university, students had to work for a year in industry or agriculture (productive sectors). If I were to do this now I would be incredibly happy. Capitalism is so perverted that even being economically exploited is a privilege. And how it commodifies everything, even the caretaking and counceling. The psychological effect of affirming being valued by society by participating in social production and having it evaluated fairly and not being reduced into mere number in profit making scheme does wonders.

If that flag is unironic, then I am really impressed. Good post.

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Evan Moore
Evan Moore

Good fucking post lad.

David Clark
David Clark

Offsetting this by squeezing profits out of hugely productive industry to pay back for all the other inequalities is shoddy mathematical trick that has always bitten the people in the back. Cockshott speaks about this causing the lack of incentive to innovate the industry, to lessen the work load by introducing mechanization and automation.
The thing is, the highly-profitable industries of the USSR were typically light-industries. Allowing profit to dictate where investments should be made implies the absolute domination of the law of value over production and also a move backwards to the planning of production by profitability i.e. a return to capitalism.

The Soviets didn't just use profits from light-industry to engage in cheap food populism but also to invest in heavy industry that produced low/no profits or even operated at a loss. But this wasn't merely about the Soviets loving steel but was about the fact that better means of production would improve productivity overall was tied to heavy industry.

And think about it, how profitable was the Soviet nuclear industry? The nuclear industry is a low-profit industry today under capitalism. Imagine how it must've been when the Soviet Union was a trailblazer in nuclear power in the 1940s and 1950s.

The Soviet space program and space industry wasn't profitable at all at least in a direct sense.

One of the things the Khruschevites did when they came to power was try to "fix" the problem profitable industry subsidizing unprofitable but usually more advanced industries. I think that it has to be counted as a major advantage of socialism that it can fund unprofitable but socially desirable enterprises, furthermore while capitalist governments can do these things they are also limited by both bourgeois class interests and a system of financing that forces them to pay interest on anything they spend above their annual tax revenue.

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Gavin Cook
Gavin Cook

Yes I agree about this particular advantage of commanding economy being good in the long run, it is just that it has some unforeseen consequences if these are not accounted for. But labour time accounting also allows for this. The additional constrainst like a demand for heavy and nuclear industry would certainly reflect on the overall state of the economy.
The point that I am trying to make is that this does not need to be done in artificial command but can be worked into existing calculations. Cockshott's model of economic planning allows for this and in fact in a really simplified manner an example is shown in TANS.

What would have helped the Soviets would be also electronics and semiconductor industry which was foolishly split into military and civilian branches, eating up valuable work time. But I guess having trigger imperialists next door rattling with their weapons has its effect.
Not only has this effect on economy and its structure, but also on people and mass psychology.

But the Cockshott criticism thread and the refutal expand on it far better than I could.

Eli Watson
Eli Watson

America had capitalism until Woodrow Wilson and FDR introduced socialism with the Federal Reserve and the New Deal respectively; although Wilson was only party socialist because Coolidge brought back good ol free-market capitalism, until the Great Depression came around because Hoover used the printer too much. This paved the way for FDR to finally turn America into full socialism

t. lolbert

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Hudson Diaz
Hudson Diaz

anti-civilization
wow, how terrible…

Nicholas Lopez
Nicholas Lopez

So by his measure mcCarthyist era US was a Socialist state?

Caleb Diaz
Caleb Diaz

Wow, its almost as if the private property ←> common property axis is exactly that - an axis. Its a spectrum. Systems leaning to the private property side are called capitalist, systems leaning to the common side are called socialist. Super simple stuff.

Asher Sanchez
Asher Sanchez

Yeah, The Paris Commune. Free Territory, etc.
sage because same old same old topics and I'm sick of it.

Michael Turner
Michael Turner

do people really watch a guy who looks like he does nothing but play steam while blasting death metal in his basement and fucking loli fleshlights all day for political commentary?

Oliver Gonzalez
Oliver Gonzalez

They think he is a genius because he "predicted the election" in 2016. His ego is out of control

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Cooper Ortiz
Cooper Ortiz

They think he is a genius because he "predicted the election" in 2016
what the fuck? only two people could have won lol. Flipping a fucking coin literally had the same chance of predicting the election

Landon Morgan
Landon Morgan

That describes most alt-right e-celebs. Hell, that describes most e-celebs.

Brody Smith
Brody Smith

He's also a Charles Manson follower and thinks he was framed by the US government.

Josiah Reed
Josiah Reed

Don't doubt his occultic powers, comrade. But remember, he's not a big Trump fan, he just attributes his every action to "4D chess" and his "Shakespearean" character

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Kayden Jenkins
Kayden Jenkins

he "predicted the election" in 2016
So did Michael Moore.

Austin Turner
Austin Turner

Good post satan

Owen Thomas
Owen Thomas

Oh, and it's a fucking tragedy and everyone dies in the end by being drafted into the war and trump's house being bombed.

Benjamin Gonzalez
Benjamin Gonzalez

Whoops, had my shitpost flag on

Austin Russell
Austin Russell

Comrade Bobby Jones

Owen Price
Owen Price

imagine capitalism was based off a "theory" that said if you go capitalist enough then an egalitarian, fair, abundant and moneyless situation would ensue.
And anytime someone pointed to a flaw in capitalist countries you just sneered and told them to read a certain book, and how that "isn't even real capitalism…." and how the solution is "we gotta go deeper into capitalism".

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Michael Clark
Michael Clark

That argument's not going to work here. A majority of this board are ☭TANKIE☭s and not the "It wasn't real Communism" crowd.

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Jackson Gomez
Jackson Gomez

I've come to the conclusion that the "not real communism" meme isn't actually people trying to distance themselves from the Soviet union and other socialist experiments it's actually just because people on the right just don't know the difference between the words socialism and communism.

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Grayson Young
Grayson Young

People say that all of the time though.

it wasn't real capitalism because the gubbermand did it
it wasn't real capitalism, X (war, genocide, famine etc) happened just because and not due to economics
it wasn't real capitalism, it was crony capitalism

And it's not just libertarians who say it (though libertarians notably DO have "theory of capitalism" and the idea that if we go more capitalister we'll reach a fair, abundant and stateless society), you can hear it from liberals too.

Wyatt Bell
Wyatt Bell

imagine capitalism was based off a "theory"
It is

Cooper Sullivan
Cooper Sullivan

It’s blatant propaganda tbh

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