France thread

France thread
protests all over yesterday against railworker status reform
I'll post the fliers I picked up

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Other urls found in this thread:

lemonde.fr/politique/article/2018/03/23/roxane-lundy-le-mouvement-des-jeunes-socialistes-va-prendre-son-independance-vis-a-vis-du-ps_5275628_823448.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked

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Ce sont incroyables! Je ne savais pas qu'il y a un francais ici. Peux-tu m'expliquer les manifestations?

Il y en a même plusieurs.
Je ne suis pas OP mais cette fois ci les protestations sont en relation avec un changement de statut des cheminots (moind d'avantages) et de la SNCF (ouverture à la concurrence, prélude à la privatisation) sur fond d'opposition à la politique néolibérale de Macron.

Maleureusement même si les manifestations sont spectaculaires comparées aux autres pays occidnetaux, cela reste principalement de la contestation contre le détricotage des acquis sociaux, ce qu'il reste des politiques socio-démocrates, plus qu'un véritable vent révolutionnaire.
Qui plus est même celà mobilise moins qu'avant. Je me souvient étant jeune que les syndicats pouvaient metter tout le pays à genoux et provoquer le chute du gouvernement (avec l'aide d'un Président de la République attardé certes, mais quand même)

I assumed you understood French enough for me to type relatively long posts in French, tell me if you have trouble understanding everything

Existent-ils plus des liens entre la lutte générale contre la néoliberalisme et ses vicissitudes, et notre but: encore réifier la socialisme dans sa forme universaliste ?

holy shit, in my country you'd pobably be imprisoned for spreading shit like this

also I don't speak French very well, why the hell do you guys use "meme" so much, I never understood that

Meme in French means same

Macron is shit.

This. Même was used by Voltaire to mean a cultural thing repeated until it is in the zeitgeist.

Which is basically what "Meme" means today in the 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧dawkins🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 sense

Well yes.

What country?

lmao the PRCF are irrelevant ☭TANKIE☭s

When will France complete the revolution?
Does France have a culture of unions and of Leftism or are they just socdems?

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Ummm

I would say union culture is still more big than most countries but it's decaying.
Leftists are mostly socdems (FI+PCF), but we also have some trots (LO+NPA), and anarchists (FA), even if smashies are the only mediatized.
Unfortunately the whole french left is full of idpols and it's a growing tendency, except maybe the remaining ☭TANKIE☭ sects like the PCRF.

Australia?

Pic related
girls with aussie accent are hot tho

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Unexpected tbqh.

What kind of idpol? Immigrants and muslims?

Immigrants (refugees or not), muslims, third wave feminism and LGBTI.

The funny thing is that the PCF (who was Marxist-Leninist at the time) was hostile to May 1968 at first, but now even the PCRF like the legacy of May 68.

Everybody likes the legacy of '68 now, considering it's been emptied of its radical content and appropriated by the spectacle as a shallow, undefined "moment of rebellion". In Belgium 2018 has even been officially declared "the Year of Protestation" for the 50th anniversary of '68. Just like how the Black Panthers' image is used by the likes of Beyoncé.

I mean. It was a fucking failure let's be honest. Even ☭TANKIE☭s like it these day because we got nothing else

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They care more about immigrants than french proles, so yes it's idpol.
Also, immigration is liberalism, not socialism.

Not sure who or what you're talking about. It sounds like your usual conservative hot take about how people of immigrant descent having access to the same welfare provisions as natives is "putting immigrants before true Frenchmen" or some shit.

This sentence doesn't even make any fucking sense. Reads like you actually had a hard time cobbling it together.

"Anti-idpol" originated as a rightful materialist dismissal of non-class based, identity-based politics and and now it's turned into a fucking joke, a buzzword spouted by retarded Holla Forums renegades desperately trying to fit in here. Sad!

It's not about descent, it's about immigrants, people who don't have the french nationality.

Immigrants already have access to most welfare as any "native", but it's not about welfare. It's about immigrants who came from countries where there's a high unemployment and low wages so they came to France (or another Western country) to have better conditions, I can understand that, but so do the capitalists because immigration lower wages of french proles, rise the unemployment (and so the reserve army of labour) which has for effect to pressure the workers to accept more and more neoliberal reforms.

There's no true or false Frenchmen, you have the nationality or you don't have it. It's the same for every country.

Like I said, immigration advantage the bourgeois, not the workers. The left should advocate for anti-immigration policies instead of leaving it to reactionnaries. That's why the Front National became mainstream.

No because Holla Forums is idpol too.

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Thinking that "immigration" makes a difference in the status of a prole is liberalism you class cuck.

Because there's no such thing as nationality.
We should be more worried about class cuck reactionaries like you tbqh.

Yeah it's not like countries have differents material and working conditions.


National sentiment might be a spook but nationality is a juridical reality.

It's you who want to deteriorate working conditions with immigration, you're the real class cuck.

A prole is a prole whatever side of an arbitrary line on a map says you dumb faggot.


It's still nonexistent you incredible dumbass.
You're a nationalist. You are a class cuck by default.

Immigration is a result of deteriorating working conditions, which is a constant under capitalism. Your fanciful bullshit pretends that these evil niggers are coming to "do the work Westerners won't do," when the reality is that wages in whatever country have become so depressed–another everpresent feature of capitalism as the rate of profit inevitably falls–as to be unable to sustain a worker at a reasonable standard of living.

The result is that Western workers "won't do the work" because doing so makes no economic sense. So these other proles are incentivized to come instead, and through the magic of your "juridicial reality" are turned into an underclass of super-exploited people that whether its because of custom or legal definition or whatever it is considered okay to viciously exploit, and subject to material conditions no worker would or should willingly subject themselves to were there a better alternative. You get several Mexican families living in a single unpowered unairconditioned trailer to earn dollars a day because their alternative back home is to live in an unpowered unairconditioned hovel where they earn nothing, because the same capitalists exploiting them in the US super-exploit them there, too, once more thanks to your faggot "juridicial reality."

Ironically it's this process that maintains your working conditions, you fucking dipshit idiot asshole. If these people weren't here and exploited in this way, it would be you, or some other marginal population within your country. In the US, it was (and still is) black people that historically formed this underclass of super-exploited people. For the English it was the Irish. For Germany, it was the Polish. I'm not exceedingly familiar with the labor history of France, but I wouldn't doubt it was some marginal group or non-elite ethnicity, Bretons or the Mediterranean French or this or that or whatever.


Even if your moronic, veiled Hitlerite ideology was true, there are always distinctions and categories that can and will be made to enable the hyper-exploitation of some marginal group. In the US, this is a major feature of the "justice" system. Incarcerated labor is a major source of revenue for companies like Whole Foods, who sell the produce grown by inmates for humongous markups while paying these people pennies for their work, if they get paid at all. Through systems of kickbacks and legal imperatives such as mandates to keep these prisons full by whatever percentage, not to mention policies and laws designed specifically to set convicts up for failure and reincarceration after they serve their sentence, millions of Americans are reduced to what is effectively slavery. This is being expanded in other ways, first tested in places like Detroit and Flint after 08, and now expanded to the entire island of Puerto Rico, which has been turned into an island of slaves basically into perpetuity.

This super-exploitation is created at this or that minority group's expense in order to keep working conditions relatively higher for the rest of the working population, to keep them from under the delusion that working conditions aren't already bad or worsening and from realizing that it is all the fault of the ownership class, their system of wealth extraction and accumulation, and their thoughtless stooges: you, who like emaciated vermin scrabble for crumbs and viciously attack any other creature scrawnier than yourself, all in the defense of what little you're allowed to have, to the benefit of those who have everything, and in their relentless desire for more will increasingly give you less and less. These immigrants are your exploiters, they're your fucking future, you imbecile.

Your position is nothing but reactionary, Hitlerite dogma dressed up in grotesque garb of a concern for labor. You're disgusting, even more disgusting than the bourgeois, who at least acts to their own interest. You're a wretched class cuck serving the system responsible for enslaving you, attacking your fellows in bondage for the crime of being worse off than yourself.

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Whatever happened to French Syndicalism? Is Sorel still relevant to the French left or has Mussolini permanently discredited his name?

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As a Puerto Rican i can tell you that my island is being turned into Hawai'i 2.0

I did not say otherwise, I just said that material and working conditions vary depending of the country because countries have different laws.


I never mention race but whatever.

So, if I well understood, immigration is a good thing because it protects Western workers to be even more exploited?

So why do you care about immigration if in any case there will always be a super-exploited class?

Yeah but all the ML factions that weren’t part of the PCF (such as the Maoists) generally liked it. Most MLS hold that the PCF is a revisionist party and that was a growing consensus even in 1968

They can go fuck themselves.

Who do you think pay for their easy working conditions, for their short weeks, for their early and generous retirement, for their advantages ? The rich pigs? Fuck you, the working class does. You boss is the state and the money of the state is the money of the workers. The richs avoid taxes and even when they are forced to pay they pay with money they took to the workers.

Your cost are so high that it is cheaper to take your car than the train even if you are alone. Who do you think pay this price when our only other choice is trafic for hours?
Due to that, in the campaing no one take the train anymore, the state have to eat the cost to keep the lines open. Your retirement fund is fucked and take billions off the state every year. Even then, you ask for billions to create new lines.
And what about the quality of the work? The trains are dirty, not on time and often cancelled. Who do you think take it in the face? The rich or the working class?
You cost billions to the state, billions the working class have to pay.

And you dare asking us to stand by your side? Fuck you. Fuck all of you with a cactus, I hope this puppet of the banks anally rape your ass and that this stupid status.

And since when does the far left fight to have more than one classe? Since when does it stand with workers who own the mean of production and stop working to hire other workers who have to do the job for cheap?

i think this is a good point on how strikes will only go so far in a system still controlled by free markets/markets

Yo Comrades can I have some stories/articles about what exactly is happening vis a vis Puerto Rico in the wake of the Disaster with regards to conditions similar to Prison Slave Labour?

If nationalities does not exist, then you have to share your secu, unemployment insurance and retirement with 8 billion people.

Choose wisely.

...

The Young Socialists are leaving the PS and joining Benoît Hamon :
lemonde.fr/politique/article/2018/03/23/roxane-lundy-le-mouvement-des-jeunes-socialistes-va-prendre-son-independance-vis-a-vis-du-ps_5275628_823448.html

Hamon is a socdem, a legit one but still.

Yep. You just know it's the future center-left mainstream party, it's so obvious. What I wonder is whether the Communist Party could get close to them, or even dissolve like the PS and have half of it join up or something. It's all about containing the FI and preventing it from becoming central, which would move the mainstream to the left.

Eh Mélenchon is past the point of no return now: he is seen as a major leader in the recent strikes. Although Hamon does have one advantage: DiEM25.

jesus fucking christ, why would ostensible leftists want to STOP that
these people have capitulated to capital in the worst way

Yes, we should just tell immigrants to go fuck themselves as the rest of the world burns — who cares about them? Only concerning yourself with the native working class is not a proper socialist outlook, it's desperate crypto-nativist policing of the welfare state.

Your positions are indistinguishable from that of the Front National. Even from a purely pragmatic standpoint that's poor praxis, any attempt to encroach on the far-right's ant-immigrant turf has and will continue to backfire as it only serves to move the Overton window further right.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_hour_worked