Abortion

Gabriel Allen
Gabriel Allen

Where does Holla Forums stand on abortions?
I know a lot of you think this is an idpol issue, but there is a sizeable population in the US who view the issue being equal with murder, and indeed there are LOTS of single-issue voters who vote Republican because they view everyone who doesn't support abortion bans as baby killers, be they neoliberals like Hillary or socdems like Bernie.

This has been largely ignored but just talking to any conservative family will reveal that it is a very important issue for them. Remember, in the US family planning centers are bombed by extremists with church funding. And I'm not just talking about rural whites; A non-insignificant number of latinos voted for Trump because of abortions.

So how do you balance your support for individual and women's rights with wanting to appeal to the working class?

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All urls found in this thread:

poal.me/iy786d
rdwolff.com/atcosta/what_are_the_economic_aspects_of_the_attack_on_women_s_reproductive_rights

Leo Scott
Leo Scott

Kill all white babies

David Carter
David Carter

Having children die unborn before consciousness develops >>>> Romanian orphanages
If natalism is needed, bigger families need to be guaranteed the resources to provide, otherwise we just get a repeat of the Romanian program.

Jose Gonzalez
Jose Gonzalez

ban abortions
they happen anyway but nobody can track the numbers
HOORAY! WE STOPPED ABORTION!

Logan Foster
Logan Foster

not to mention women who get illegal abortions fuck it up and die, leave that shit to a doctor

Kayden Wright
Kayden Wright

One of the biggest reasons that I became a communist is the abortion issue. Under capitalism so many babies are aborted because their parent(s) cannot afford them. Socialism would solve this problem.

Parker Allen
Parker Allen

Actual good take here.

Aiden Howard
Aiden Howard

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Charles Torres
Charles Torres

personally dislike, since I was raised catholic and there are some spooks you can't rid yourself of
on the other hand, if it's done in the first like 2 months I really don't give a fuck cause i doubt the fetus is sufficiently developed to feel anything by then

James Gonzalez
James Gonzalez

Having children die unborn before consciousness..
I feel like this was one of the great failures of the Romanian communist revolution. The argument was not that abortion is murderous (and was not put forward by religious people, since religion was recognized as being the cacer that is), but that the economy needed those bodies. I think that the CP made a mistake by banning abortions. It is because the honest communists were eliminated from power by corrupt patriarchal morons with god complexes. The banning of abortions is just an assertion that a woman's role is just to give birth.
I totally agree. The method that I would propose is to use one of those thrash burning electrical power plants. But instead of burning unrecyclable trash, we'll just throw in wh*te babies instead. Think about the poetic justice of the whole ordeal. White babies will end up baing the ones who consume the most of the earth's resources. Therefore burning their fat to produce energy is even greener than solar energy since it avoids the future consumption of those to be imperialists. At the same time there will be considerable more resources for black babies, which consume vastly less.

Jace Perez
Jace Perez

why abort when you have contraceptives? are you some sort of retard that likes disease?

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Lucas Allen
Lucas Allen

What about instances of rape?

Blake Reed
Blake Reed

usually I'm somewhat morally conflicted on the issue, but after talking to pro-life retards I briefly become convinced abortion should be mandatory

Jose Evans
Jose Evans

Abortion is an integral part of reproductive healthcare and therefor should be a right. The state should provide free abortions for any woman who may want one.

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Ryder Myers
Ryder Myers

Because even contraceptive have a failure risk.
Because at some point you consider you can trust your partner enough to avoid STD even without protection and you're too confident in knowing your own body's rythm.
Because you have start over sexual education for every education, every year and that knowledge about sexuality and reproduction isn't innate for us poor humans (my grandmother used to think men could get pregnant in her late teens) and sometimes teenagers get curious before the message get through their skulls.
Because people commit mistakes and to have the possibility to limit the damages caused by mistakes is a good thing.

Carter Russell
Carter Russell

Abortion is viscerally fucked up but understandable in certain circumstances. Ideally traditional courtship and marriage would be restored and it would become unnecessary.

also this

Owen Edwards
Owen Edwards

1. Abolish patriarchy.

2. Promote female-female romantic relationships instead of hetero ones.

3. Party has a matchmaker and common households/marriage is based on shared values and sustaining communism rather than "love"/lust.

There: I've just solved abortion.

Bentley Wilson
Bentley Wilson

most arguments for abortion in present day are actually just liberal moralism. its putting the bourgois material comfort of women over a human life and using bourgois liberal notion of "rights" to do so.

personally people are gonna do w/e they wanna do at the end of the day but i do think abortion isnt cool.

Lincoln Cook
Lincoln Cook

Where abortion is possible with drugs they should be OTC and 100% free. Where it requires a procedure it should be walk-in, no questions asked. If OTC abortion pills are available you'll see very few of the latter anyway.

Caleb Cruz
Caleb Cruz

a parent can pretty much always "afford" a baby except in extremely rare circumstances in the urban third world. it wont be fun or comfy but they can get by. most parents abort children not because they literally cant afford them but because it is too much to deal with and they just dont want to put up with it.

which, you know it is what it is. but there is an active choice they are making and they are not angelic blameless victims.

Ayden Baker
Ayden Baker

is meant for

Alexander Nelson
Alexander Nelson

a parent can pretty much always "afford" a baby except in extremely rare circumstances in the urban third world
Single parenthood in the lower class statististically lead to more problems for the children, especailly for lower class women that indeed can't afford baby sitters to look for their offspring while they have to work.

Blake Fisher
Blake Fisher

This but unironically

Samuel Jenkins
Samuel Jenkins

“And to fight not singly as did the best of our fathers and not for deceitful bourgeois slogans, but for our own slogans, the slogans of our class. We fight better than our fathers. Our children will fight still better and they will win. The working class is not dying. It is growing, becoming strong, grown up, united; it is learning and becoming tempered in struggle. We are pessimists as regards serfdom, capitalism and small-scale production, but ardent optimists about the workers’ movement and its aims. We are already laying the foundations of the new building and our children will finish its construction.
“That is why — and that is the only reason — we are unconditional enemies of neo-Malthusianism, which is a trend proper to the petty-bourgeois couple, hardened and egoistical, who mutter fearfully: ‘Only let us hang on somehow. As for children, we’d better not have any.’ It stands to reason that such an approach does not in any way prevent us from demanding the unconditional repeal of all laws persecuting abortion or laws against the distribution of medical works on contraceptive measures and so on. Such laws are simply the hypocrisy of the ruling classes. These laws do not cure the ills of capitalism, but simply turn them into especially malignant and cruel diseases for the oppressed masses.” (“The Working Class and Neo-Malthusianism” Collected Works vol. 19, p. 236)

Henry Carter
Henry Carter

life in general is full of problems. life is not good or comfortable. even the very wealthy have their issues with depression and anxiety. we might laugh at them but they are there, in the same way the very very poor in the third world might laugh at our rates of depression and anxiety while having such high rates of obesity(opulence)

Andrew Davis
Andrew Davis

The government saw legalization as a temporary necessity, as after the economic crisis and nearly a decade of unrest, war, revolution, and civil war, many women would be seeking abortions due to not being able to take care of their child. Restrictions were placed on the criteria for abortions and by 1924 it was only permitted where pregnancy risked the life of the woman or the unborn child.[10] The Soviet Union encouraged pronatal policies; however, Soviet officials argued that women would be getting abortions regardless of legality, and the state would be able to regulate and control abortion only if it was legalized. In particular, the Soviet government hoped to provide access to abortion in a safe environment performed by a trained doctor instead of babki.[11]

Benjamin Sanchez
Benjamin Sanchez

Why would you condemn a child to live with parents that "put up" with him and don't love him?

Brandon Torres
Brandon Torres

"condemning" a child to live? they get to live and experience life, the nly thing that matters.

life is not good. it is not a happy place. for anyone. this is a western myth. all people suffer. life is suffering. and that is okay. because alongside suffering there is joy and pleasure, and various other experiences that one will see before one dies. its a lucky ass gift and privilege no matter how much it sucks(barring extreme exceptions) if someone one day figures on account of their own experience that they want to die, fine. but you dont get to kill somethig because you think their life is not worth experiencing because you think it will be too hard.

Tyler Thomas
Tyler Thomas

Single parenthood is shit, both for the child and the parent, and this is something we should all be able to agree on. Kids that grow up on poor, single parent homes grow up in abysmal conditions and are very likely to be headed to jail.

Now, this doesn't mean I support abortion. I would be willing to support a ban on abortion if we had policies that guaranteed basic resources for all children: Quality education, aggressive anti-hunger programs, daycares and after-school programs to foster individual talents, more pro-family policies (not retarded anti-LGBT garbage, I mean tax breaks and extended parental leave), and so on. But the problem with conservatives is that they're all moralistic about abortion but want to leave children to their own resources once they are born. They don't even want to fund public schools!

So within this framework, I would support abortion, but I believe that in an ideal (communist) society, abortion would not be needed.

Brody Richardson
Brody Richardson

Depends on the class.

Benjamin Howard
Benjamin Howard

There needs to be better birth control methods and artificial wombs need to be developed and fetal transplant. Of course better economic conditions. Also gene editing therapy in-vitro to cure deadly diseases. That will reduce abortion. As for abortion itself allow unrestricted up till 20 weeks then after that only for medical and allow induced early births or transpants into a surrogate or artifical womb.

Alexander Scott
Alexander Scott

Tedious process here so I don’t have much of a say. You do you.

Christopher Mitchell
Christopher Mitchell

Why would you condemn a child to live
Good question

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Samuel Miller
Samuel Miller

Why is absence of pain "good" instead of "not bad" while abence of pleasure is "not bad" instead of "not good"?

Cooper Powell
Cooper Powell

Legal only in the event of a medical condition that necessitates it

Robert Thomas
Robert Thomas

the material world is innately evil
duality
objective good/bad
determinism/fatalism

It's interesting that so many people here are just bad Hellenistic Gnostics but they consider themselves secular and unique in history.

Hunter Robinson
Hunter Robinson

There's a whole book answering that question and more! At least it probably does; I've never read the thing.

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Jonathan Cooper
Jonathan Cooper

At least it probably does; I've never read the thing.
For fuck's sake, I'm an antinatalist and this is embarrassing.

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Ayden Hill
Ayden Hill

Abortion is wrong because it is killing a person without their consent, therefore it should be banned. Conception is likewise wrong because it is creating a person without their consent, who is vunerable to suffer further aggressions throughout their life (such as abortion), therefore it should also be banned. The only way to absolutely prevent abortion is to prevent conception from happening in the first place.

Nolan Murphy
Nolan Murphy

3. Party has a matchmaker and common households/marriage is based on shared values and sustaining communism rather than "love"/lust.

this is your brain on Judaism

Brandon White
Brandon White

Well yeah, that and you'll both have permission to have one night stands, sex isn't important, companionship and community are.

Isaac Baker
Isaac Baker

Take it from an oldfag that antinatalists and the rest of their negative existentialist comrades in arms (n1x, Rebel, the shitloads of anons back then with the annihilist flag, etc.) were the first to absolutely shit up this board because they spammed their off-topic bullshit fucking EVERYWHERE and at times the whole fucking board was just /existentialistpol/ and not Holla Forums because they just couldn't see fit to discuss fucking anything but that. It's no surprise that the board culture that flourished here back in early 2015 which I remember had a very optimistic, hopeful, and creative nature to it suddenly vanished when people who wouldn't shut the fuck up about how their life sucks and therefore everyone else's life sucks too started flooding the board in masses. Antinatalists, nihilists, overall depressed losers who applied that to their worldview, fucked this board in its infancy, probably before even the 200 ISP mark.

inb4 nihilism is the most optimistic worldview
Whatever comforts you all at night

Colton Parker
Colton Parker

Would you want to live in a country where abortion is illegal?

poal.me/iy786d

Blake Hall
Blake Hall

QUESTION:
What are the economic aspects of the attack on women's reproductive rights? Why is it so important for the right, apart from their hypocritical moralist arguments, to curtail women's right to choose abortion? Is there an economic side to it, or is it only a matter of "principles"? Although, of course, the same principles do not apply once the child is born and is in need.

WOLFF:
While there are multiple reasons for the right's focus on abortion, since you ask about an economic side or reason, let me offer a comment. Middle and upper income Americans who want abortions have been able to obtain them through much of history by using their money to go to where they are illegal or to purchase them illegally. Banning legal abortions is mostly a problem for poorer people who cannot then access abortions. They will thus have more children which (1) adds to the available labor pool (pushing down wages as more people compete for jobs), and (2) adds to the costs and responsibilities of parents correspondingly less likely to engage in risky political or labor union action to improve their jobs and incomes. Allowing legal abortion gives millions of families a way of taking control over so important a decision as having a child and as such might well encourage families to want to take parallel controls of other important life decisions like economic decisions (about jobs, income distribution, govt programs, etc.); the system instinctively works against this. Another way to get at this is to see the right as a complex political alliance. That alliance includes capitalist employers who worry that they are too small a percentage of the population and thus need a mass base to ally with. If they can find a religious institution having difficulty holding onto its flock, a deal can be struck that advantages both sides. Business gets a mass base of people organized into, say, churches, who will endorse and support pro-capitalist govt policies, while the churches get business support for institutional imperatives like opposition to abortion. In the US, the Republican party has long depended on such an alliance to exist.

rdwolff.com/atcosta/what_are_the_economic_aspects_of_the_attack_on_women_s_reproductive_rights

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Joshua Long
Joshua Long

Doesn't matter or mean anything.

Angel Baker
Angel Baker

I mean, I was told there isn't a word for "love" in Yiddish. Is this true?

Mason Peterson
Mason Peterson

I never want to relive this. I remember one thread where some user was discussing his genuine fear of death and the whole thread became filled with blackflags saying how death is actually great, that non-existence is like sleeping or "being before you were born", and how revolution could come about by mass suicide because it would starve the bourgeoisie of workers. Black flag was like the designated shitposting flag. If I was at my house I would post the "never relax" meme someone made.

Cameron Green
Cameron Green

Read Wolff is unfortunately making a neo-malthusian argument for legal abortion (labor pool, improved conditions by population reduction, etc.)

Adam Lopez
Adam Lopez

The only philosophical question worth answering is: Why go on?

If you can't answer that, you're doomed and so is your revolution.

Luke Baker
Luke Baker

That sounds awesome, pity I wasn't around here in early 2015. What happened to those anons?

how revolution could come about by mass suicide because it would starve the bourgeoisie of workers
If the masses would be capable of doing that then they would also be capable of revolting and fighting against armed police and military until oppression is over. If someone loves life and fears death then he is not willing to sacrifice his life for a revolution, the problem with the world is that there are too many people like this and too few people that hate life and yearn for death and therefore are motivated to actually change things and capable of giving their lives for it.

"Optimists"/natalists will always be slavish hedonistic cowards.

Wyatt Gutierrez
Wyatt Gutierrez

Yeah, but why though? The whole point of revolution is to feel good afterwards, you act like reincarnation or afterlife is real.

Henry Collins
Henry Collins

Also I want to point out the irony that if most people or a substantial amount of people were pessimists then we would already be living in a earthly paradise. Of course such a people will never be truly satisfied even with such a wonderful but ultimately meaningless world where nobody still doesn't choose to be born into.

Yeah, but why though?
So that the people that are making you feel bad die. So that Good triumphs over Evil.

The whole point of revolution is to feel good afterwards
Speak for yourself, for me revolution is to end oppression by killing oppressors, it doesn't matter whether I live afterwards.

you act like reincarnation or afterlife is real.
No, I act like my life is meaningless after accomplishing it's intended purpose that I chose for myself.

Logan Foster
Logan Foster

<If the masses would be capable of doing that then they would also be capable of revolting and fighting against armed police and military until oppression is over. If someone loves life and fears death then he is not willing to sacrifice his life for a revolution, the problem with the world is that there are too many people like this and too few people that hate life and yearn for death and therefore are motivated to actually change things and capable of giving their lives for it.
Impying that people didn't revolt in the past for a better future and love of life
Implying that the Tsar militia members who refused to shoot on demonstrators and instead let them through did so because they hated life
Implying the Bolsheviks hated life when they collectivized the farm land and distributed food to the urban populations
Implying Lenin hated life when he talked about how we fight for our children's future
Implying the countless Soviets who wrote letters home to their loved ones from the front lines and died defending their families and friends did so because they hated life
Implying that in Afghanistan when the communist forces finally succeeded in setting up Democratic Republic of Afghanistan and provided rights and services never seen or experienced before to a populace who had only ever known theocratic despots that they did so because they hated life
Implying when Che fought for a future in which capitalism and imperialism did not constrict, diminish, and destroy the livelihoods and more often actual lives of the people of South America, that he did so because he hated life
Implying the countless nameless socialists who took up arms against a system which forced them into a life of drudgery and dependency on those who cared little of their lives did so because they hated life.
<The problem with the world is that there are too many people like this and too few people that hate life and yearn for death and therefore are motivated to actually change things and capable of giving their lives for it.
Let me ftfy
The problem with the world is that too few people are like this and too many people who hate life and yearn for death and therefore are motivated to actually do nothing to change things and who will never give their lives to do so.

John James
John James

This thread turned so shit so quick

Connor Green
Connor Green

Free will doesn't exist, good and evil are spooks and your feelings change on the time of day or what clickbait you read.
Most of the oppression you feel is stories from strangers and bad 19th century metaphysics from people that thought the radio and magnets were paranormal.

Carson Price
Carson Price

Why do anti-natalists ruin fucking everything?

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Nolan Hernandez
Nolan Hernandez

Anti natalism like anti theism is fedora tier trash

Bentley Ward
Bentley Ward

There are enough kids in the world that go unwanted in orphanages but nooooooo your genes are so fucking important you gotta make one of your own. Fuck outta here. Adopt or cut them off.

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Jonathan Young
Jonathan Young

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Easton Morris
Easton Morris

Abortion is a-ok, unless it’s my child getting aborted. Fuck that.

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Jayden Morales
Jayden Morales

its putting the bourgois material comfort of women over a human life
fetuses are humans lives
fuck outta here

This book looks like it was written by a depressed porky teenager. Depression is a bourgeois issue, not a issue real people face.

You’re retarted

There are enough kids in the world that go unwanted in orphanages but nooooooo your genes are so fucking important you gotta make one of your own. Fuck outta here. Adopt or cut them off.
you can’t reproduce because of some random kid in Africa.
Spooks be gone. There is plenty of land left on Earth for people. Also in a century or so Mars will be terraformed and any overpopulation problem can be solved through free homestead land on other planets.

Nicholas Wood
Nicholas Wood

Implying any of those people changed anything
Implying those people didn't continue to oppress others

The problem with the world is that too few people are like this and too many people who hate life and yearn for death and therefore are motivated to actually do nothing to change things and who will never give their lives to do so.
If that's true then why are those billions people still alive and why do they create more living beings to preserve that life they supposedly hate so much?

Anti-natalism is the highest form of religious thought. Every religion teaches about the meaningless of material life and teaches against attachment of it.

"Love of the world is the root of all evil." - Muhammad

"I spit on my life. Death in battle would be better for me than that I, defeated, survive." - Buddha

"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." - Jesus Christ

Of course a brainlet like you wouldn't know that.

Cameron Long
Cameron Long

Lies
We literally had a similar thread in October of 2017. I'm trying to find it in the archive but there is pockets of stuff completely missing from it so idk. The thread was where this take came from, which I found actually pretty decent.

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Joseph Morgan
Joseph Morgan

Abortion is unironically one of the most capitalistic-minded things one can do. Anyone who doesn't condemn abortion has no right to call himself a 'leftist'.

Fuck around instead of being chaste
create life
decide to kill literally one of the most vulnerable people (babies)
just so women can keep doing drugs, drinking, wasting resources and fucking around

yep really being a boon to the working class by consuming resources and producing nothing.

the bible says 'be fruitful and multiply'.

Andrew Butler
Andrew Butler

using religion to back up his point

Anti theism is only stupid because it becomes pseudo religious. Religion is retarded too lmao.

Gavin Adams
Gavin Adams

Yeah, but you gotta tow that party line and fulfill that imposed stereotype. If you don't think borders are gay and that scrambling babies isn't a divine right; you're a heretic and might as well be a nazi.

I can't wait for boomer pinkos to pass away into the night.

Cameron Garcia
Cameron Garcia

Anyone who doesn't condemn abortion has no right to call himself a 'leftist'.

this is what Amerilard "leftists" actually believe

Anthony Flores
Anthony Flores

The attitude towards abortion like it's no big deal and womyn rights matter a lot more than some baby who isnt really a baby because reasons is plainly capitalist

Samuel Hall
Samuel Hall

I bet you like tranny faggots like Contrapoints

Alexander Bennett
Alexander Bennett

Day after pill.

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Christian Lee
Christian Lee

also in development: male contraceptives.

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Parker Morgan
Parker Morgan

No difference between that and abortion.
Simply don't conceive.

Michael Turner
Michael Turner

Do we take the volcel pill?

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Tyler Powell
Tyler Powell

Reproduction will also be collectivized after the revolution. Every single fertile women is collectivized and they have zero right to terminate an asset of the state, if they don't want to be a mother of the state then they can be sterilized. Sorry, but if you have the power to create life then you will be treated like it; humans are not magical meat machines with divine rights. This is exactly like any other service, just instead of hands or brains it uses the womb.

Dylan Scott
Dylan Scott

the bible says 'be fruitful and multiply'.
That's the Book of Genesis in the Tanakh/"Old Testament", I was quoting Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew. Jesus was not fruitful and did not multiply, just like he disobeyed and contradicted many other commandments of the Tanakh. The anti-natalist Gnostic Christians rejected the Tanakh.

*tips*

Only after we castrate anyone that refuses to take it.

Joseph Bell
Joseph Bell

Jesus was not fruitful
He was literally God and already made everything, what's he going to screw?

Evan Stewart
Evan Stewart

Lmao what
Anyway assuming current pace of technological """progress""" goes uninterrupted, people will be able to conceive sexually. Once that happens the abortion debate becomes moot because the question of life is materially answered in reality as being totally meaningless. Corporate and state production of human being or machine humane hybrids becomes an inevitability.

Thomas Harris
Thomas Harris

If that's true then why are those billions people still alive and why do they create more living beings to preserve that life they supposedly hate so much?
Implying social contradictions like this don't exist all the time in capitalism
Idk, how do we live in society that stresses independence and self-sufficiency while existing in a system that forces us to be dependent on those who control production and breeds parasitism of the highest degree? How is it we live in a consumer driven economy which promises satisfaction and happiness through commodity consumption yet find suicide rates and unhappiness higher then ever? How do we have noticeably concerning number people who don't even make enough to pay for rent or healthcare or proper food stating that the system is working while they die from cancer or complications from malnutrition? How do we have self proclaimed pro-family individuals supporting legislation which would incentivize people not to have kids or abandon them? How do we have mass entertainment and access to such and yet mass dissatisfaction? I could go on, but people wanting to die and yet continuing to live and have others live is in ways the essence of modern capitalism.

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Julian Johnson
Julian Johnson

*conceive asexually

William Clark
William Clark

Fascism wouldn't be gaining ground if leftists would actually appeal to the working class. That's how a fucking billionaire got elected, because all trump had to say was "lmao America first" instead of "women and sexual deviants first"

Nope obviously the solution to Trump is to purchase pink pussy hats en masse so a hat company can profit, really jump-starting the revolution there

Carter Wright
Carter Wright

Dude just fuck off with your Jordan Peterson religiosity it doesnt mean anything and no one gives a shit

Sebastian Parker
Sebastian Parker

le drumpf is a fascist xd
Get out.

Tyler Adams
Tyler Adams

Read up on morphogenesis, epigenetics and instinctual imprinting. Test tubes produce brain dead retards, only good for organs and meat.

There's a reason ducklings are afraid of a hawk's shadow and not a seagull's.

Camden Parker
Camden Parker

Kill all white babies
ftfy

Aaron Diaz
Aaron Diaz

the question of life is materially answered in reality as being totally meaningless.
Look mom, I observed an occurrence then made a metaphysical claim on it all while stating it was materially answered and without providing anything to actually show that the claim is true.
Show me how life is now meaningless. It can be materially shown, can it not?

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Luke Cooper
Luke Cooper

American leftist
Supports criminalizing abortion
Supports circumcision
Supports "Christian socialism"
Doesn't vote, doesn't organize, just "waiting for the collapse to happen" any day now

Western European leftist
Pro-choice
Pro LGBT identity politics
Pro Muslim identity politics
Anti circumcision
Supports assisted euthanasia

Eastern European leftist
Pro-choice
Supports suppression of LGBT
Anti circumcision
Nostalgizes the days "when we had communism"

Asian leftist
Pro-choice
Supports suppression of LGBT
Anti-circumcision
State atheism
Believes only state capitalism can bring socialism

Latin American leftist
Supports criminalizing abortion
Staunchly Catholic

African leftist
Gets killed in a pointless civil war before becoming relevant

Joshua Campbell
Joshua Campbell

Show me how life is now meaningless.
Can't prove a negative.

Christian Sullivan
Christian Sullivan

He isn't sayingTrump is a fash. All he's saying is that both fascists and Trump have been winning/gaining ground in America because currently they're doing a better job at appealing to the working class of America. I think there's more to it than that but that's effectively what he's saying.

Jack Howard
Jack Howard

Pretty sure there are more kinds of American leftists than Christcoms, dude

Carter Perry
Carter Perry

Others might have a different take on it but I think like becomes sacred or exalted because it is not something humans have full control over. Yes obviously humans are what do it but a human cannot simply make another. The act of sex is required, already striking most people on this board off from it, human beings then have little control over the makeup of the life that occurs and is then birthed. Humans are merely the conduit of this acrivity, not the masters.bonce life can simply be made like a human makes a tool, it loses its sacred aspect. It is no longer divine. It becomes totally within the realm of human control. A human can reproduce asexually, with a woman with or without sex, or with a number of humans, and then have full control over the characteristics if that life before it is born.
Now that life is so fully under the control of humans it is no longer mystic, as say the fire was once to ancient humans. It is now just another tool. No longer to be revered. It is easy and cheap and of no consequence. Another human tool

Carson White
Carson White

You cannot manage what you cannot measure. The very concept of accounting for political personas that someone fancies for the day is absurd. You have to count the party memberships, that is unfortunately the only thing we can count; the closest thing to a mildly popular leftist party in America is the Green Party.

John Ward
John Ward

American leftist
Supports criminalizing abortion
Proofs?
Supports circumcision
Yeah but that's only because muh jews and WASP """tradition""".
Supports "Christian socialism"
There is literally nothing wrong with this.
Doesn't vote, doesn't organize, just "waiting for the collapse to happen" any day now
Revolutionary defeatism is good.

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Zachary Evans
Zachary Evans

He was literally God
Nope. The Trinity/Homoousion was made-up and imposed by Constantine's Council of Nicaea, pre-Nicene Christians differed widely in their view of the nature of Jesus, the New Testament itself is extremely vague and not explicit at all. Modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus is God.

Also:
God
already made everything
That's the Devil. Read Gnosticism.

Christopher Carter
Christopher Carter

That's the Devil. Read Gnosticism.

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Owen Anderson
Owen Anderson

Yes. The left has allowed the right to beat it at its own game.

Asher Rivera
Asher Rivera

Essentially everyone at the Council of Nicaea agreed with the doctrine they established except for Arius who was beaten down by Santa Claus himself.

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Julian Roberts
Julian Roberts

He stated that once people are able to conceive asexually, that it is now materially shown that life is meaningless. Materially shown. He is literally making a metaphysical claim ("life is meaningless") then saying such a claim is materially supported by people being able to reproduce asexually now without actually showing how it does this. He's just drawing an arrow without any explanation of what that arrow is.
This is how it looks
Observation: People can now or will be able to produce asexually
Insert space here
Claim: This means life has materially been shown to be meaningless
Your whole argument hinges on the idea that because people did not have complete control over the ability to conceive children (it had to be shared) or control over the results of that conception, that this inability to control things gave such life meaning or at least some kind of mystic societal relevance. Its reverence gave it meaning and now that it is gone we are merely tools to be used because we are now cheap and producible. This is a ridiculous claim because it not only functions on a almost capitalist framework of viewing things ("This thing is easily producible and we have large amounts of it therefore its value is worthless and we should think less of it") but because it makes the claim that now that we have control of life that this life now looses meaning despite not showing exactly how such meaning is lost from it. It assumes meaning is derived from randomness, from the scarcity of a thing without actually showing how this was "meaning" in the first place and also attributes this "meaning" to sacredness despite not showing how this sacredness was actual "meaning" as well. Your more or less stating that the only way meaning can be derived is by the sacredness of a thing which assumes that it is the only thing that meaning can be extracted from.

Separately, in regards to your own argument, if I were to find or make a tool and I use that tool everyday and find myself attached to or concerned for the condition for that tool, despite that tool being identical to every other tool like it and plenty of it, or that tool having been constructed to my own specification, have I not given it the "meaning" you described? Respectively, if I raise and take care a child everyday and find myself attached to or concerned for the health of that child, despite that child being identical to many others and/or having been "made" in way I decided upon, have I not given or derived meaning? Is a statue meaningless to its creator because he made it and there are many like it? Is a piece of art sitting on a wall meaningless to the one who painted it because it could be made by them again easily and there are many similar like it? If we are made gods to the matter of creation, or if such a god does actually exist, does what matter we or it create or shape become "meaningless" because we or it create or shape it and could do so again for infinity? In what way does the infinitesimalness or the replicability of something determine the meaning we derive or attribute to such a thing? If such a thing is how we determine meaning, then there can be and was no meaning that could or ever be determined or derived from anything, as both we and the time we live in is and continues to grow infinitesimally small, and the uniqueness and unlikeness of our own experiences and moments continues to disappear in proportion.

Ayden Morales
Ayden Morales

"Patriarchy" doesn't exist.

Colton Wood
Colton Wood

I'm on mobile now and won't be able to respond fully because it's a bitch to do. Essentially what I was trying to say in my previous post that I guess I didn't say explicitly is that life becomes non sacred because to be sacred is effectively to be beyond human, or above human. We do not sanctify the human. Once we sanctify individual humans they are no longer just humans they are saints. Divine. Same goes for objects.

Once humans have total control and understanding over human life reproduction through means of technology, it no longer becomes sacred. Because if it was sacred then it would not be able to be manipulated in such a complete way by humans. The sanctity of life is materially disproven by the reality of its total manipulation at the hands of humans. In the same way that we no longer revere the moon as a divine object or God but a physical object that we have physically stepped foot on. This isn't an ideological or philosophical disproving. It is "material"

Luke Murphy
Luke Murphy

No good secular argument for banning it, fetuses don't have consciousness yet, so support legality on human freedom grounds.

Lucas Morris
Lucas Morris

Hi zizek

Blake Parker
Blake Parker

Black women should be banned from discussing politics

Carter Gutierrez
Carter Gutierrez

Jewish women should be banned from discussing politics

Owen Taylor
Owen Taylor

I think in this regard my point still stands. I would only add that if we were to explore this from your view, that if sacredness is to be beyond human, then have we not in this moment of exact creation made ourselves so? You said:
Because if it was sacred then it would not be able to be manipulated in such a complete way by humans.
But what if this were the opposite? By performing such manipulation in such a way, have we not transcened this notion of being mere subjects confined to the randomness of the universe, of being beings capable of only human non-sacred actions? Have we not also transcended our current notion of sacredness, meaning we are now free to attribute the attribute of sacredness upon whatever is our creation and, conversely, upon oursleves? The sanctity of life has not in any way been materially disproven by the reality of its total manipulation at the hands of humans, it has merely been changed to now being derived from our own now "sacred" selves. We have achieved what was sacred and now have become a people who match such. You assume our actions bring all things down to a base human, but what if such things bring our base as humans up? Reverance does not dissappear with the understanding of the material object or what was once divine, the concepts of what was revered still remain and what we may revere freed from the confines of that material object. Zizek would also say that the force of ideology has not left us as well. You have said:
We do not sanctify the human. Once we sanctify individual humans they are no longer just humans they are saints. Divine.
But by reaching such control and exactness have we not matched what we found sacred and therefore become one with such? In such a case could it not be said that the concept of being human has been "sanctified" or that humans have transcended into what was sacred? Metaphorically, you could say every man has been made a "Saint", a person who in potential matches what was once divine. And in regards to the created human, they too would or could inherit such potential by having the ability to engage in exact creation as well. I would also say we "santify" the idea of the human all the time, in the sense of things or creatures moving up to a human level which is for all concerns is above them
My argument from before was honestly more directed at the statement you made before, which was:
It is easy and cheap and of no consequence.
But to review this from your own views, hasn't life now been made less cheap and of major consequence? Do we not now bear the extreme weight of our creations actions and design as such things can no longer be attributed to random and spontaneous accident of which we are helpless to but exact and dictated creation of which we control in a truely absolute manner? Before a person could only curse towards what was a distant and unresponsive god or merely accept his spontaneously incidental reality for the manner of his condition and creation, but now there observably exists a material creator who by choice and action decided both his existence and his form of which he can lay blame or praise on. You as the creator now accept the once divine position of what was gods and usurp chance.

Wyatt Roberts
Wyatt Roberts

Women should be banned from discussing politics

Zachary Cook
Zachary Cook

Rosa would like a word with you.

Jace Kelly
Jace Kelly

If a woman gets raped or will die/Get Severely injured, Its OK to have an abortion.

If someone has an abortion to make them look less fat, That should not be allowed.

Aiden Allen
Aiden Allen

le false dichotomy

Charles Long
Charles Long

Man what is wrong with you o___o

Connor Thomas
Connor Thomas

People in the Third World is threatened by death squads, proper terrorists, proper paramilitary groups, the US military and its allies, islamic fundamentalists, drug cartels, mobs… then all of a sudden leftypol is scared by 'muh abortion'. Do me a favor First world, fuck off and die.

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Xavier Murphy
Xavier Murphy

I actually remember tons of threads from those days where these kinds of people were announcing that they were gonna kill themselves soon, I remember even Rebel made some of those threads. It was far worse back then but the aftershocks of those days still live on in the rampant pessimism (inb4 muh schopenhauer durr) and hopelessness of this board culture.

These annihilist/antinatalist tards should either follow their own advice or at the very least get the fuck out of here. /pol/ would be a better receptor of their faggotry. I fail to grasp why a board about revolutionary leftist politics need to host a group of depressed fucking losers who are wholly against the very basis of our tenets..

Anthony Bailey
Anthony Bailey

This tbh
but muh Rosa
See above

Aiden Moore
Aiden Moore

There's no secular argument for freedumbs or what constitutes consciousness.

The community should decide if a child should or shouldn't be terminated, period.

Thomas Phillips
Thomas Phillips

Serious question
Do you have autism?

Alexander Nelson
Alexander Nelson

Hell yeah

I'd be the best fucking abortionist around too. I'd be hitting numbers you need exponents to calculate.

Come up with a machine to do it more quickly, maybe two or three women at a time, I'd be the motherfucking Eli Whitney of fetuses.

I'd hang up a sign in found of the state sponsored abortion clinic which read:

Come see Dr. Deletus, he'll annihilate your fetus.

Plus that sick government pension at 20.

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Ethan Watson
Ethan Watson

People in the Third World etc. then all of a sudden leftypol suffers from autism. Do me a favor first world, fuck off and die.

Jack Allen
Jack Allen

The turd world is a piece of shit that won't flush and communism is the only toilet powerful enough to flush it down for good.

Henry Mitchell
Henry Mitchell

There's no secular argument for humanity's continued existence either. better go genocide ourselves xDDDD

Ayden Wilson
Ayden Wilson

It's because the Left shoved itself into a cloud of postmodernist fancy. Question everything! Except the people who are ruling your lives!

Noah Rivera
Noah Rivera

Kill yourself /pol/

Xavier Perez
Xavier Perez

The sad thing is there are people here who actually believe that this is a logical thing.
Also;
There's no secular argument for humanity's continued existence
Should one think hard enough about the subject then you will eventually find an argument for that. The thing is most people who actually do that to a great extent are nihilists and antinatalists who just wish to find further reasons for why nothing matters and to fuel their own misanthropy.

Jason Foster
Jason Foster

I agree, materialist metaphysics are in complete crisis mode and we've been ignoring this fatal flaw for decades now, it is incapable of answering the basic theological questions without using pseudoscience or pure dogmatic rhetoric. This is fundamentally why we have degenerated so badly for the decades and imploded into fashionable debauchery, fatalism and nihilism.

How did this happen? Compromising our axioms to become more appealing to the masses, using gutted theology as a foundation(blank slate, self determination) and the progression of the sciences as a whole.

Carter Brooks
Carter Brooks

Abortion is literally the slicing and dicing of proles before they're nine months old. It's the epitome of decadence, and the reason why it's so promoted by the media is to lower the prole population.

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