Soldier Apologia (?)

It started as a massive shitpost on /leftpol/ but thinking about it, I'm not that wrong.
With the premise that I don't want to justify nazi, why we buy in the mainstream narrative of "IT HAPPEND BECASE EBIL KRAUTS"?

And why, if we have to buy in this narrative, we do not applied to americans too?

I feel like a massive faggot cross posting this way, but it's actually an interesting question.
Why we and the rad left in general would not accept Wehrmacht, Nazi or Ex reich citizens, even if converted, in their organizations and rankings but no one say shit about americans?
This is valid for imperial Japan too, the narrative of "every citizen and soldier is guilty" would justify the dropping of two nukes on civilians. Let that sink

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Other urls found in this thread:'s_Army.

But most rad leftists did, look at postwar Germany. The Soviets had no problem rearming former nazis since all the actual soldiers were sent to Siberia. West Germany's original communist party was banned explicitly because it was run by former NASDP officers and promised to open the door to a Soviet invasion. Americans were generally told to fuck off and this is what led to the Berlin Airlift, the building of the Iron Curtain and the Cold War.

That only happened because Japan was still at war with America, no different than the bombing of Dresden. Once surrendered, neither communists nor capitalists saw any point in mass genocide because such a thing is very expensive and has no real gain unless there is a huge population surplus in the conqueror's country.

The soldiers are least guilty of all the members of society, because they are sent there by force, and would be harshly pusnished for any disobedience, at the same time having to take tremendous risk to life and health, including mental health.

If any sort of atrocity or war is concerned, politicians are most guilty, generals are second, common citizens are third, and soldiers the least.

Because Bush did the Holocaust:

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Yeah who are we to judge , I mean all those rapings , lootings and joykills sure had a valid justifiable reason behind them . Right ?

Explain yourself

Muhammad Ali is the only hero

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Bet you are american

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The Wehrmacht represented the most reactionary, imperialist elements of Prussian mlitarism. They deserved worse.

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/Leftpol/ is such a shit place, it's full of idiotic leftcoms,red liberals and Fascists. Iv'e seen more nazbol Asserist posts on leftpol then months of leftypol

As much as this board gets shitted on for moderation it's still far superior. Polite sage

And why does the american army deserve a pass when they did worse?

Uh they don't deserve a pass

Based. I'm down with this


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I made no moral argument.
I just asking why with americans is necessity and nazis is moral

Is that…Lain?

The Soviets did base there actions on necessity, hell they took Wehrmacht into the NPA's_Army. Remember also that the Nazi's kept good bookkeeping, so the case of finding blame and arresting individuals who committed actions and we're in ranking positions was quite simple.

Understand we're also talking about a full blown international war here, as opposed to gearing up for a national revolution which is what people are generally talking about when discussing converting American soilders.

Now you can ban me

The foreign Press sometimes carries such twaddle as that the Red Army pursues the aim of exterminating the German people and destroying the German state. This, of course, is a stupid lie, and a senseless slander against the Red Army. The Red Army has not and cannot have such idiotic aims. The Red Army’s aim is to drive the German occupants from our country and liberate Soviet soil from the German-fascist invaders. It is very likely that the war for the liberation of Soviet soil will lead to the exile or destruction of Hitler’s clique. We would welcome such an outcome. But it would be ludicrous to identify Hitler’s clique with the German people, with the German state. The experience of history indicates that Hitlers come and go, but the German people and the German state remain.

The strength of the Red Army lies, finally, in the fact that it does not and cannot feel racial hatred for other peoples, including the German people; that it has been trained in the spirit of equality of all peoples and races, in the spirit of respect for the rights of other peoples. The Germans’ racial theory and the practice of racial hatred have caused all freedom-loving peoples to become enemies of fascist Germany. The theory of race equality in the U.S.S.R. and practice of respect for the rights of other peoples have caused all freedom-loving peoples to become the friends of the Soviet Union.

Herein lies the strength of the Red Army.

And herein lies the weakness of the German-fascist army.

The foreign Press sometimes carries such twaddle as that the Soviet people hate the Germans just as Germans, that the Red Army exterminates German soldiers just as Germans out of hatred for everything German and that therefore the Red Army does not take German soldiers prisoner. That, of course is a similar stupid lie and senseless slander against the Red Army. The Red Army is devoid of all sentiments of racial hatred. It is devoid of such degrading sentiments because it has been trained in the spirit of racial equality and respect for the rights of other peoples. It should not be forgotten either that in our country any manifestation of racial hatred is punished by law.

Of course, the Red Army has to destroy the German-fascist occupationists inasmuch as they wish to enslave our Motherland; or when, on being surrounded by our troops, they refuse to lay down their arms and surrender. The Red Army annihilates them, not because of their German origin, but because they want to enslave our Motherland. The Red Army, like the army of any other people, has the right and is duty-bound to annihilate the enslavers of its Motherland, irrespective of their national origin. Not long ago the German garrisons in the towns of Kalinin, Klin, Sukhinichi, Andreapol and Toropets were surrounded by our troops, who offered them surrender and, in this case, promised to spare their lives. The German garrisons refused to lay down their arms and surrender. It is obvious that they had to be driven out by force and that not a few Germans were killed. War is war. The Red Army takes German soldiers and officers prisoner if they surrender, and spares their lives. The Red Army annihilates German soldiers and officers if they refuse to lay down their arms, and, arms in hand, attempt to enslave our Motherland. Remember the words of the great Russian writer, Maxim Gorky: “If the enemy does not surrender he must be annihilated.”

But mate. My argument was really that we shouldn't """""discriminate""""" nazis for moralism. We are saying the same thing here. Look at the pic in OP and look at the answer the guy got when he said that foot soldiers are not the same thing as politicians or porky.
I was just asking why people are willing to make compromise in their heads when it comes to americans but none for japanese and nazis. I mean north korea still get shitted on for accepting a few converts in their ranking
this thread was against petty bourgeoisie concerns of anarco liberals and sometimes leftcoms who are ready to scream "REVOLUTION BETRAYED" and "CLASSCOLLABORATION" everytime Realpolitiks is in action or when it comes time to talk about the ussr

left/pol/acks are just Holla Forumsacks that give the same ideology a spin and positive connotation

"yes, there is all that racial struggle, but it's actually the eternal german that is evil
yes, there is a jewish-bolshevik plot, and it's good, zionism is one form of communism and israel is socialism in praxis

the US are under the jewish influence, obviously they carry out the will of the judeo-bolshevik conspirators!"

this is the mind of the left/pol/ack and antigerman

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Are antigerman and /leftpol/ connected?
Holy shit, I didn't agree with BO but if this is the scum we exiled and purged from the board I'm kind of starting to rethink my position…Kind like I did with another guy…Ummm

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take all the antigerman propaganda on israel and draw the parallels to the one they use on over a dozen US military bases in Syria together with their shared attacks against antiimperialism
it took me a while too but once the thought occures it's blatantly obvious who they are

Tbh, while there were some bans that were undeserved in regards to disscussion on the status of socialism and socialist support in certain countries, there were also some which were utterly and completely deserved. From what I know anti-germans don't make up any particularly noticable percentage of users on leftpol, but I think what that user is saying is that a lot of anons use similar arguments which are just as bad.

they might be not aware of the source ideology but they are very much high on it, there is no doubt for me as to who supplied them

i may also note that "collective guilt" is yet again US ideology that was forced on germany in the western parts.
and what for? to cover up the class divide and the cause of the war that lies within it. this is what the antigerman does, this is what left/pol/ does.

if the leadership of the nazis, the SS and the capitalist sponors of the nazi party do not carry special responsibility
what does this imply?
it implies that the nazis did not terrorize the population into submission
it implies that the nazis won "fair elections"
not only that those could exist under capitalism, but that after the communists gained votes while the nazis lost, that there was no terror at the voting both on top
in short it claims that there was no class conflict in nazi germany, it glosses over it. it becomes a racial matter.

i like OPs caps, it shows the essence of the /left/polacks ideology being based on racial hatred and american sponsored propaganda.


I seriously don't care. They are guilty of atrocities. FUCK em, they deserve worse. If you would would rather be a Nazi soldier than dead, it's a shame that you will now end up being both. There are some exceptions to this, but a legitimate Nazi has no place in society other than the far edges. Anyways, this will buttblast 4-d chess magicians, yet they all wonder where revisionism comes from! L O L

That isn't what the article said whatsoever. This article gives absolutely no direction for your amazing """""""necessity""""""", it is literally only about anti-militarist propoganda and how it effectively humanizes soldiers in favor of their communities. It makes them less effective for the ruling classes.

Mine isn't nazi apologism, explain me now why should I treat americans any different or not even worse seen how they not only were the cause behind it but after the war they did far worse than nazis.

The article is Lenin talking about propagandizing to military members, its usefulness, and how it is needed. Lenin was always about being disciplined and doing what was necessary to secure victory over the bourgeoisie regardless of personal distaste. In regards to your first statement, refer to .

Well for one, you can't punish someone (with any sort of justice anyways) for a crime they haven't done. Most Americans today aren't responsible for American crimes directly after World War 2, just like modern day Nazis aren't responsible for crimes during World War 2.
However, that is a war that ended 73 years ago. Nowadays, I would say almost all American soldiers, politicians, and businessman (of a certain size) are guilty of varying degrees.

Look at this dude! You can LITERALLY read Lenin moralizing in the post you replied to me with.
Lenin is LITERALLY saying that the Red Army "can not feel racial hatred for other peoples" and that the USSR has the "practice of respect for the rights of other people". For someone is willing to do "anything necessary", he sure does talk a lot about respect for natural rights and how the Red Army can't be racist. Just recognize that Lenin wasn't some 4-d chess "rationalist" faggot so we can be done with this. I mean you can literally read him talking about how all the freedom loving people are going to join hands against racism and defeat the Nazis. This is especially funny when your earlier posting said Communists should abandon moral principles, and then posted Lenin talking about the importance of principles in regards to racism and natural rights.
That's heavily reductive, and the point you draw from it is separated from reality. The point I'm referring to, of course, is your hard-on for Cyborg-Lenin, noted annihilator of emotion and moral fortitude.
It's a pretty sexy fantasy, I won't lie
Anyways, I have two main quotes from your Lenin post that I will prove you don't understand what you read from, or at the very least are being heavily reductive about.
I have already disproven the part about "Lenin would do whatever was necessary", so I will jump right in to what you believe Lenin was speaking of here.
In this, Lenin talks about how a soilder is "lone, ignorant and cowed… isolated from his fellow-men and whose head has been stuffed with the wildest views" in comparison to "draft-age young men". Notice these are draft age young men, not soldiers. So far, Lenin has established a soldier as hard to approach, ignorant, and cowed, amongst other negative qualities.
He then goes on to talk about how "anti-militarist propoganda among young workers has yielded excellent results". Notice he is speaking of young workers, not soldiers. This is clearly not in respect to soldiers; he is referring to the "draft-age young men".
Finally, he finishes saying that a class-concious Social Democrat going INTO the Army is a poor support for the powers that be. He isn't referring to all soldiers, or even most soldiers here. He is specifically referring to the "draft-age young men".
Here Lenin is again, referring to the importance of radicalizing people before they are soldiers.
Now, to sum up the rest of the article, Lenin talks about the success of these efforts and the anti-militarist propoganda passed out to soldiers.
This ENTIRE article is simply about the importance of radicalizing people before they become soldiers and the importance of anti-militaristic propoganda in radicalizing current soldiers.
NOWHERE does Lenin argue for any 4-chess, he doesn't argue against morals, he doesn't say that we should accept all soldiers, he doesn't say we should try any sort of magical, dialectical wizardy where we attempt to coopt reactionaries for progessive aims. Seriously, fuck off with the 4-d chess "fug morals" meme.

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The American Army and Whenchmart didn’t do much worse than what the Russian Army did in WW2. Yet the Bolsheviks still organized them and gave them amity because not doing so would be fucking retarted.

*Russian Army did in WW1

this x1000. they took a blood oath to hitler and followed literal genocidal orders issued at battle-group level. after the war british intelligence listened in on german POWs joking about raping women they came across during barbarossa, ”dragging them in [the armored vehicle]”.

germans were completely aware and complicit in the holocaust also. they saw their friends and neighbors of years and years taken away never to be seen again. and they did nothing, the cowards.

the entirity of the wehrmacht should have been liquidated. marshal zhukov, bomber harris, do it again!

No, stacheposter is just a retard.

You’re high on ideology if you think R*java and Israel are remotely comparable.

I'm honestly more concerned why you would think Lenin, a man who died before WW2, would be talking about Germans.
Also, in regard to your selective reading of the actual Lenin writing, you seem to have completely skipped this part.
Lenin is literally advocating something beyond I was even saying. He is saying to build connections with a soldier before he leaves for the army, then send him packages while he is deployed so he does not become alienated from his community at home because if he does (as is the intention of his superiors) it will make it easier for him to accept orders to shoot at dissidents and crowds of protestors when he comes home as he no longer feels any connection to them, and then, to go even farther and seal the deal, the soldier is to be greeted at any new town he arrives in by the local Young Workers league as to ensure his continued involvement with the league and to build a line of communication through him to other soldiers in his barrack. This is all done to forward the necessary task of building up the revolutionary masses and to ensure it's success in the event of revolution. Seriously, read the whole thing before you go stating it means something it doesn't.

Meant for