No free health care

It has the opposite effect. People who can innovate die earlier.

Einstein, Stephen Hawking, none of them would have fucking done jack shit under this kind of reasoning.

You help foster a society where a fucking community that's reasonably healthy can exist in the first place you absolutely retarded fuck. Pushing people to death does not actually get desired results

Oh no shit, Holla Forumsyp is another high school drop out. Who would have figured

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Only part he is right about regarding the US

If you don't try sure, you won't get chosen into classes for people who actually give a shit and try. It's broken but AP classes exist.

TALES FROM NORTH AMERICA

One time I went out to a bar for karaoke and then this guy was talking to me and I looked like Boy George so he thought I was a hooker and offered me 40 bucks to go back to the tiny shitty hotel room he was living in now because he just got out of prison and when we got there there was a TV playing a prosperity preacher who explained that giving money to him was an "investment with God" and it played the entire time we were doing stuff and it was the only light in the room and then eventually he called me a cab which was pretty much the entirety of what I'd just been paid but I only really needed a ride back anyway.

Delet

Was in AP calculus, it was only slightly under the community college calculus I took later. Nobody cared, not employers and not colleges.

What…

Clearly it was a one time thing. Duh.

What state do you live in.

If you can innovate then you innovate and make money to keep yourself alive. They said Hawking would die at what, 23? Yet there he was in his 70's.

I'm new here what's polyp?

Georgia

I'm California. I'm not trying to say shit but, maybe that's the reason for our differences in experiences.

bbc.com/news/av/health-40990288/stephen-hawking-i-wouldn-t-be-here-without-the-nhs

to be honest if you don't pray for kim to nuke the us daily why are you even on Holla Forums?

Yea no shit, but I'd take a guess and say my experience is shared by more in this country weather is because its a red state, they are in a poor area, or some combination of both

Without the NHS he wouldn't be alive. God you're stupid.

Hi-five

Fuck Georgia!

Yea I get the joy of living in Georgia and being 15 mins from Florida.
kill me

I'm going to blow your fucking mind

Social Darwinism hasn't and will never show results for a physically healthy society, it leads to the exact opposite

Ok, so we should give free healthcare to the next generation of Hawking, got it. That doesn't mean eveyone should get free healthcare.

socialism has never worked. Neither has capitalism but at least we aren't starving and working in mining camps.

It actually does. America isn't healthier with these fucking insurance companies you god damn masochist

Le Radical Centrism

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There are places in the US with third world conditions where people are actually starving

I'm so glad I live in Atlanta
Far away from insidious Florida swampscum - Jesus Christ, Florida makes me kind of proud to be in Georgia.

I live a good 20 mins from places like this and one more crash away from my own town turning into one.

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Every socialist nation except the Khmer Rouge has improved things for the general people, so I guess socialism has always worked

pic related

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and they deserve to because they aren't working. A minimum wage job will feed you.

Why would I continue to do what I'm good at that makes a lot of money under a socialist government? I could just flip burgers at mcdonalds and make the same amount. It's easier. I did it when I was 16. Would much rather.

Not my fault you guys fucked off in highschool instead of learning a useful skill.

Uhhh… user… they are working minimum wage jobs.

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t. Has no idea how high the cost of living actually is hint: there’s a reason Wal-Mart helps their workers sign up for food stamps

They don't teach programming in most highschools.

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...

Then they are living in the wrong area. We have places specifically for people who cannot afford proper housing. It's government assisted housing. Aside from that we have food stamps for people who are under a certain income bracket. ASIDE FROM THAT, we have free money for people who are poor as fuck that have 5 kids where they make a shit ton, then ontop of that, they can ignore hospital bills and make my health insurance increase as a result.

They teach pajeet language and pajeet script in my former school. Worst than none.

????What????

Get out of here ol' boomer

I learned outside of school because I didn't want my life to be in poverty anymore.

It's Blanquist.

I'm 29.

OH god the mind of boomer in the body of someone way to young for it. Even worse

Guys there’s no point in replying to this guy. He’s just going to go on the old half-Chan saw about how he was born in a log cabin and now he’s a Fortune 500 executive. Nothing you say will convince him cause he’s just baiting

So plz explain these welfare programs I've never heard of?

I learned skills so I wouldn't have to work at BK like you. How does that make me a bad person?

I pay so much in taxes that I could make payments on 2 brand new BMWs per month.

Why should I pay that in taxes because a lot of you are idiots that won't get jobs and like to blow their money on bullshit and party?

btw, the taxes don't matter because I have assets and an s corp, so I don't pay taxes on my passive income :)

I am a college dropout, dont know my father, and my mom is dependent on me (cpd). I work from 5 am to 12 noon at a warehouse. I come home and mostly have to look after her and fix stuff around the house. How do i fix my life like you ????

Sure ya do kid

foodstamps and some kind of district housing. district 7 or some shit.

I was making 10 an hour a year and a half ago and I qualified for ALL of it. I took none of it because I wasn't an entitled piece of shit.

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answer

Learn to program.

Codeacademy or freecodecamp.

Go to the real chan and go to /g/ then search for /wdg/. Read the stick and learn.

You can make 50k within 3 months ezpz.

What proof do you need?

This is the ideal capitalist system. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

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Even if you do. It was luck.

technologyreview.com/s/610395/if-youre-so-smart-why-arent-you-rich-turns-out-its-just-chance/

What's your point? Taking more AP classes, especially anything STEM related, is designed to turn you into a loyal, obedient, long hour working employee.

Man I enjoyed O'brother where art thou

School isn't necessary for many fields. You don't have to be a Doctor to be successful. I don't have a degree; just a diploma.

That reminds me of that time I got 40 bucks to go to a guy's hotel room and he just got out of jail and I didn't have to pay taxes on it.

Why aren't you concerned with how the idle rich benefit?

Out of curiosity, why are you so concerned about public 'welfare' (in reality some of the programs you seem to be alluding to were scrapped in the '90s), but not private welfare? Why should some people have to work, but others shouldn't have to because their parents (who, themselves, may not even have worked) happen to have enough money for them not to? Isn't that just private welfare, supported by lax taxes and a disproportionate burden on those with less? Don't these people benefit from the protection and services of the state?

How does this increase productivity? It encourages parasitism, but why? You yourself complain about those who you perceive as abusing the benefits of the state, yet you also claim to be skirting the tax code - why should anyone else accept what you do for personal enrichment if you complain about what they do in order to eat and get medical treatment?

To add -
Aren't other people like yourself also ripping you off by not carrying their own weight?

>He doesn't realize this is not only measly but also about $3.00 above federal min. wage and more than even a lot of above-min-wage places are willing to pay

Tbh you should still probably learn to code.

Although, honestly, the chances of you getting rich are incredibly slim, yes. Most programmers will be working straight to old age putting in extra hours desperately trying to have enough for retirement. But they'll be living relatively comfortably otherwise, and afford some perks. Of course, the prices of most of that stuff are dramatically inflated by speculation, so in better conditions without this artificial scarcity you could probably work at Wally World and have the same shit programmers can afford now… but for now, it's a useful skill.

Nah tried the coding thing. Not for me, I like to work with my hands

Well then you deserve to be poor, you dirty pleb!!!11

Lmao this fucking thread though

Similar, but my way is legal. It's the same way Donald Trump doesn't have to pay taxes. People that let a corp earn the money don't have to pay taxes because they don't technically own anything. Your way was illegal unless you earned an income under the filing requirements.

Section 8 and foodstamps still exist.

Someone had to earn the money somewhere. Who cares if the parents or grandparents earned it? You can earn it for your children and grandchildren too.

Because I pay for it. I pay for lack of productivity. I pay for people having kids when they can't afford them. I pay for people who go to the ER for a basic cough and ignore the charges. I pay for all of that shit.

My uncle is a plumber with his own practice that makes around 80k a year. He works with his hands. What do you mean by "working with your hands"? Jacking off and collecting benefits? Hell, even when I did tiling I made 14 an hour and worked 12 hour days. I had decent paychecks.

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I am a manager for pizza hut and make $9

Does Soylent taste any good?

No free healthcare in china either. An issue the mods keep deleting.

90% of all new startups fail within the first year.

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Tried the powder a few years ago and it tasted slightly better and smoother than pancake batter

The flavored variants are alright, but the regular is a flavorless viscous batter for those who want the full dystopian experience.

90% are in a saturated area, have a bad idea, or have poor marketing skills. All are things within your control.

...

40 is below, yes.

There are all sorts of ways to get money without hard (or skilled) labor.

I don't see how inherited wealth is any more earned than supplemental income. In realistic terms, the fact that all that money is being hoarded by people who didn't earn it just so they can continue to not work would be a concern to anyone else using the same money.

Do you (and, more importantly, the general working population you may or may not be a part of) not realize that you also pay for the idle rich? The cosmetic surgeries, the vodka-pissing ice sculptures, etc.? A life of expensive decadence, all protected by police and politicians and policies designed to support this accrual of wealth - thus necessitating a welfare state paid for by everyone in order to keep wages stagnant and the idle rich from having to work for their lifestyle.

Those who do work pay for this through profits as well - bosses being the beneficiaries of the extra wealth that this work creates. Why should their work fund the decadent lifestyles of some rich slobs if it shouldn't fund the shitty lifestyles of some poor 'slobs' who have to report to the state regularly to keep getting benefits? Why don't the rich slobs report to the workers who pay for them?

Backwater rural retard here

Yes. The cities are hell on earth, the suburbs are hell on earth.

Out here though? You can find some semblance of a good nation, with good people and honest pay for honest work.

Nope its hell on earth out here to bub. You just aint seen it.

Dunno fam. I've enjoyed living out here as opposed to the city. I guess really, hell is wherever you make it.

Silly goy. Communists dont work. Thats what youre for…

Id reckon a few work here and there. Kind of like the new fascists that are popping up.

Luck is something the willpowerless came up with to explain the success of those with willpower. You don't get luck if you don't take risk in the first place. You will never know because you will never try.

then why don't poor people do it? Maybe because they are lazy or had 5 kids before they were 25 and have no time?

You're right, maybe a socialism would be good in this aspect so we can prevent breeding of people who aren't productive and execute them. No room for a non-worker in a socialist society. All of us bigger earners would leave for a capitalist country by the way, so have fun.

Source? I am aware of nothing that states my money is going for cosmetic surgeries unless you are talking about the 1 cosmetic surgery allowed for military service people in Active duty.

Ever since I bought a high-dollar sports car the cops have been on my ass constantly when they weren't when I drove my old scion.

The idle rich have their money for a reason. You just sound jealous of their money. Why do you deserve their money? Answer that.

The study was done by MIT you brainlet

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Being smart without willpower means nothing.

Well, you can be mediocre and still get a job at Google if you're a non-white person or woman. Their interns are at 6-figures. The dumbass that made the shitty trippy app turned a job down at Google to work on his shitty app that became nothing.

You don't need luck for anything besides gambling. I can't win a scratchoff but I bought ADA 20 hours ago and have made a little more than 4k since then on it alone. I'm not lucky at all.

There are a lot of smart people at MIT but anyone, no matter where they are from, that believes in luck is an idiot.

Let's see, we've got the Great Chain of Being hiding behind a thin secular veneer, with a Sword of Damocles thrown in free of charge. I think you need to mention how the needs of the poor should be seen to directly by the rich through charity for the noblesse oblige to round things out. I give it a divine right of kings out of feudalism.

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theyre brainwashed by jingoist propaganda and delusional memes ("american dream" "american exceptionalism" "upward mobility, anyone can do anything in capitalism if they work hard bro" etc) from an early age to be ok with their own exploitation

The main problem with free college is that most students come from disproportionately well-off backgrounds, which makes them relatively uncompelling targets for public transfers. Making higher education free will largely benefit the middle and the upper classes at the expense of the working class.

The reason college students tend to come from wealthy backgrounds is specifically because college is so prohibitively expensive.

But muh brave heroes defending our sacred freedoms.

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Of course, making college free will increase the number of college students from poor backgrounds, but in all European countries that have free higher education people from the upper and the middle classes are still overrepresented among university students. College should be free for the working class, but it shouldn’t be free for the wealthy.

MADE BY RAD SOCDEM GANG

They don't actually think luck exists as an inherent property in humans. They prove that success is due to random circumstances and precisely not due to hard work, being smart or having a lot of willpower. You feel that it does, but this experiment and empirical data proves otherwise.

As a high school teacher I'm increasingly coming to believe that education is a big fat meme that serves primarily to instill obedience in children rather than better their lives. Even at the university level you have entire departments that are essentially cheerleaders for neoliberalism and nothing more.

Primary/secondary education should be severely curtailed to maybe 3 days a week, with no homework and only a few hours of classes meant to supplement children's natural curiosity and cooperative spirit. University should focus on instilling specific skills necessary to directly meet social needs.

Granting access to "education" as it is understood today should not be the goal of leftists.

Anyway I'm going to put a gun in my mouth.

[Update]

(OP)

Do you Euros know how good you truly have it? I was just searching for a rental on craigslist recently and check this out:

$575 a month in LA

losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/apa/d/looking-for-shared-living/6526763560.html

IT'S IN THE HEART OF LA, AMAZING SHARED LIVING APARTMENTS.

INCLUDED PAPER TOWELS AND TOILET PAPER COFFEE AND SWEETS FOR BREAKFAST!

TENANT PROVIDED WITH A MATTRESS, SHEETS, BLANKET, PILLOWS AND TOWELS (NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE)

HIGH-SPEED INTERNET.

WE HAVE PARKING LOT AVAILABLE.

FURNISHED????==========[ YES ]

NO SMOKING JONE? ======[ YES ]

CARPORT AVAILABLE?====[ YES ]

PRIVATE BATH ?==========[ NO ]

PRIVATE ROOM?==========[ NO ]

[@]@[] ONLY $575/m [@][]

[@]===1000FT2 ===[@]

$554 a month in Berlin

Vs.

This is a 1 bedroom, 1 full bath spacious condo available, Super bright and sunny! The unit features a brand new kitchen with gorgeous slow-close white cabinets, light granite, and high-end Maytag stainless steel appliances. Brand new windows let lots of light in and are utility bill savers! Hardwood floors throughout, 1 large bedroom , in-unit washer/dryer. Brand new bathroom as well. Spacious back porch for al-fresco dining and entertaining! Tandem 2 car parking space included. This is a must see! monthly rent covers all utilities, Cats and dogs allowed

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*a bunk in a four man prison style dorm room

And Americans have literally carved the faces of their early presidents in the face of a mountain. There is a cult of personality around the Founding Fathers and muh Constitution is seen as on par with the Bible

wrong flag whoops

The kicker is that rent is so high because rich porkies bought up residential properties as an investment. You're basically paying for Porky's right to own five homes.

FUCK America

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Not to mention all those people used to own, beat, rape, and kill who are now 10-12% of our population.

00:27:55 Our money looks like baseball cards with slave owners on them.

00:28:01 George Washington's the worst of the worst.

00:28:04 Yes, I said it.

youtube.com/watch?v=QemYNQfix-c>>2442372

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Are Burger conservatives or Burger "left"-liberals deeper in ideology?

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I hate living there.
Where should I move, though?
That's always the question. Is there some place that's actually better?

See;

Thats where im headed or anywhere in Europe is an upgrade and a discount.

Damn, guess I'm headed to berlin.

Why do Americans think they are welcome here?

Forgot the link to the ad but this just seems par for the course in Europe price and amenity-wise
berlin.craigslist.de/apa/d/well-furnished-apartment-for/6504088472.html

I'll fight you Hans.

This is not funny. Seriously. What the fuck. I don't care about third world immigrants, but not Americans jesus christ

I come from a place where you get shot for standing on the street corner, you think I give a fuck ya bitch?

I'd probably pretend to be Canadian if I moved abroad, tbh.

Eventually though, the only Canadians anyone will trust will be the French Canadians. People will just assume all Anglo-Canadians are just lying pussy Americans.

Already saying stupid shit even before moving here. Acting like this in public will get your ass shoot here too

Doubt it. I've been there before. You been to LA?

We've been doing this for decades. Only retarded red necks and their fellow travelers admit to being American abroad. The United States has roughly ten times the population of Canada. Be honest, how many "Canadians" have you met?

Yes. I've been to the US numerous times and even resigned from my work because I refused to go live in NY. Now I'm jobless but it was worth it

You mean abroad? I live in America. I've been to Toronto. I don't understand the question exactly, but on the topic of the classic 'too pussy to be honest about my life so I'm going to fabricate an identity' from the Bush-era, I don't do that because it's incredibly weak.

Yeah but not like THOSE PARTS of LA, Chicago, Baltimore, Oakland, The Bronx, etc. ?

youtube.com/watch?v=KAg8wCx7w6s

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You figure Europeans will appreciate your "strength"?

I'll go ahead and answer that one for you: they won't.

lol. You already acting like an americunt before even landing. We don't like you really for this reason like said

The right pic was before Trump became president. Now it's the "I Love the Government Starter Pack".

Fags. Why are you here typing in English anyways?

PragerU tier talking point.
Proving my point btw. You are not welcome. Go to canada

Because i'm english.

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That literally is the purpose behind the adapted Prussian System

imagine if somewhere in the caucasus there'd be giant heads of marx, engels, lenin and stalin carved in the mountainside
reactionaries would never ever shut the fuck about it

I'm an American and English is the only language I know.

I thought you were saying you were German.

I don't want to live on you shithole prison island no thanks.

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american thread?

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I’m not welcome in my own country, so it’s not really an issue for me

Conservatives still pretend to hate the "government". They have this weird nebulous concept of "the government" which apparently doesn't include Trump, the Republican Party, the military, police or US constitution.

Oh yeah, the famous "deep state".

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And people expect you to have kids in a state like this. How cynical.

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America is fucking huge. Like, "France is smaller than Texas" huge. As such it's home to a truly diverse group of people and cultures, one could argue that the states are more akin to small nations with how different they are. It's not uncommon for people in heavily blue cities to never even visit poor red counties.

Also, friendly reminder that 17 year old gang bangers killed by gunfire are classified as child homicides.

Yeah, socialism never worked. Then why did the USA invade or subverted every socialist nation in the world? Woudn't it better to let it fail on it's own?

Yeah, the right-wing folk shoudn't even exist.

What is wrong with the rural people? They knew how to farm.

Rural is mostly for manufacturing, not farming

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this is a carbon copy of the average American that I speak to on a daily basis, and the really sad thing is that they're all poor & suffering but still see themselves as "middle class" & "doing pretty okay".

there is a look in the eye
they have been taken
they have been fooled
i don't quite know what to do for them

Do you have a source on that other than Roo? Not that I don’t believe it, but libs won’t take him seriously.

m.youtube.com/watch?t=165s&v=dhjgneRE4Iw
Relevant video

Millions of people in the third world would disagree with you on both counts.

Don't care, they LITERAL subhumans lol

they dont realize that capital is now "the government" so they fall for the electoral spectacle and then blame everyone with a different ideology from what they've been fed.

Every country becomes subhuman to you guys when they’re poor. Be real.

Do you guys honestly think I enjoy living here?

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Oh good, another Holla Forums pseud.

...

The song there isn't actually from the movie though, it was an old recording of actual prison laborers that they used in the film.

This is sad and gross.

You know that's about as utopian as wanting them to "pay their fair share" right?

miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article204732234.html

Jesus. I mean to be fair you could probably buy or rent a house for 450 a month in some small-town rural/suburban shithole in a red state but this is just wow.

Affordable apartments that aren't prison-tier in major cities in the US is just unknown. Even NOLA which had a reputation for being one of America's few low-cost cities despite being a crime-ridden shithole now has ridiculous rents post-Katrina.

I like that dumb hoe who lives in Spain thinks capitalism = democracy.

this but unironically

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Fuck man tell me about it. I live out in Gentilly and the rent is getting ridiculous here because they are building and renovating houses left and right. Not to mention short-term rentals and air bnbs are turning the Bywater/Marigny area into a tourist trap. I can barely find a 1 bed/1 bath for $500 anymore. You're gonna have to throw down $700 to $1000 for a half shotgun house

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B-but we do the most healthcare for OTHER people outside America; we have the most Olympic medals

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Most of Rural America looks like 1990’s Russia. What state do you live in?

Why hasn’t there been a Pol Potist, or at last a Maoist uprising in Rural America already?

rt.com/op-ed/420669-obesity-usa-olympics-pyeongchang/

Because rural Americans aren't peasants and haven't been since before WWII, they're manufacturing workers. Workers who never see each other or interact in ways that would produce class consciousness.

nice mother jones talking points, your welfare capitalism is just as bad, sometimes even worse

It really is beautiful and peaceful out in the countryside.

I have a dream.

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Yes, the deer and wild flowers are all fine, but actually look at the people it's a whole different story. Oh wait, you hate people.

Fuck off

The working class should at least be paid enough to reproduce their labor-power (i.e. standard of living) I think that's the real issue here not: welfare vs. free-market. In America, ordinary proles aren't paid enough to reproduce their labor-power, the only people who are "doing okay" are those who have skills or have managed to work their way up to management.

It's very much reminiscent of lassiez-faire industrial Britain where you had proles "without skills" starving while working a 13 hour day while skilled-proles could afford to eat meat three times a day. That "labor aristocracy" in the US, for now at least, seems to jealously guard their position rather then pushing for a livable wage for all.

Politicaly yes, but at least the people are nice. (Unless there Bourg or labor aristocrats)

It's like you can't even into french revolutionary aesthetic.

I'm back, baberoos. Who's ready to get smart? Fuck yeah man, let's begin with my good friend OP:

Shit ain't free, buddy. This is how it works in the civilized world:
Are you gonna teach for free? Are you gonna perform surgery purely out of goodwill? If so, you're a better man than I, because I certainly wouldn't.

Prison system is fucked up. I'll give you that with all my heart. Society seems numb to how devastating prison can be for petty criminals. It is a place where resentment festers. It is not a rehabilitation.
However, I now ask what your plan is to deal with people who violate the law. What would you sentence a criminal to? This is necessary because violations can't be tolerated in a fine society.

Big pharma is a choice. Visiting the psychiatrist is a choice. Some would argue mass shootings are the result of a lacking mental health department. I would disagree, and instead say that the choice to do something horrible is a sober decision made by an individual, and is definitely not the responsibility of some mental illness over their personal agency.
So if you're too much of a pussy to swallow your sadness, it's YOUR decision to go get some emotion-killing pills from the charlatans in that field.

Does anyone agree? Disagree? Fill me up with your beautiful words.

capitalism in a nutshell

...

I wonder if it's occurred to anyone here that people working minimum wage jobs deserve to do so? From personal experience, those types have usually wasted their youth with booze and dreams of revolution. The hardest workers and the most shrewd businessmen are the ones who have the largest income. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if every communist was a fucking busker or a fry cook. I have a soft spot for their idealistic ways, though, so I have to offer this:

In my eyes, the nature of labor does not change between capitalism and socialism, but what's affected is your ability to multiply what you have if you've earned enough. What I mean is

yawn
>>>/liberty/

I just wanna work my allotted 4 hours a day and collect my labor vouchers while being confident our surplus labor will be used to free us from menial labor in the future.

Great. Thanks capitalism

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Yeah ok bubby, good luck shifting an entire fucking paradigm with your haphazard "philosophy" that can be reduced to your inability to comprehend the complexity of the market world.

It's funny, I get called a "damned idealist" all the time on leftypol, yet when think of what to call the people here, that's the only term that suitably fits.

An idealist is someone who rejects materialism, not someone who doesn’t believe in muh bootstraps or thinks we can build a better society then what exists

>I can dismiss empirical evidence by stating that they're the stupid idealists
Every time. I'm sorry you fell for the propaganda.

Some do some of the more basic stuff. There are a few folks who make just a working class income on investments and don't actually perform any more time-consuming labor. I know one or two. Actually getting rich off of the stock market is rare, and if you only have enough money to live on in stocks then it's a very risky way to make (and try to sustain) a living. I know a skilled luthier who actually does this instead, now. Think about that.

However, if you are already rich you actually can make a tremendous profit off of the stock market with heavily reduced losses. Likewise, making money off of interest heavy loans is much easier. Land speculation, too - in fact, being rich opens a ton of doors to professions which just involve denying resources to the rest of your society and gambling with other people's money. Anyone who starts the game with a million instantly has the option to live luxuriously on other people's labor - not just their father's work, or their grandfather's work… all of society's work.

They could also have no time from working, even without having to support 5 kids. Either way, if they can't support 5 kids with their work, why should a rich lazy person be able to drink champagne every night with the wealth generated by the work of Mr. Fivekidsbytwentyfive? The latter has little reason to stand for that.

I'm not even socialist. But I acknowledge that most of the shitty conditions of our society are caused artificially for profit, and that whether welfare is public or private it's ultimately all coming from the same pool of money. There are a variety of issues which lead to the problem of the idle poor (still a smaller problem than the idle rich, who also write policy to support themselves) - job scarcity (largely artificial), inflated housing costs (and thusly inflated costs of everything), wage stagnation (and a host of other issues caused by the neoliberal epidemic), corporate lobbies, etc. If you want fewer people on benefits, then try to fix these things.

Profit is generated from the labor of those who work. If you perform work, that extra money probably belongs to you. Do you follow?

Instead of getting that money, it goes to someone who owns something - a name, a factory, etc. They simply accrue this wealth, and from here they pay for their urinating ice sculptures. Tax relief for the very wealthy only keeps more of this wealth away from the workers who create it - not that the middleman of the state is much better, given their penchant for said tax relief, politicians' high salaries, etc.

Maybe you're in the wrong area. ;3

I don't deserve their money. But from my experience, neither do they. I haven't worked in years - I come from the white collar side of my family. It's not rich - indeed, if I'm still unemployed here by the time they retire, I'll be as poor as I was when I was working. Because they never had the time to pass on their trade, and I wasn't so envious of them (now on call in their mid-60s), I moved and pursued more rudimentary employment. But now I have more time (and no rent asked) if I just sit on my ass here and periodically perform somewhere for extra spending money. Where I am, I could crawl around beating the pavement and maybe land an $8.00 an hour volatile (high turnover) part-time job working a floor 10 hours a day (almost 12 after transit) - if I get fired, it leaves a huge hole in my resume. If I don't, lack of time leads to me paying rent to my desperate folks because I have less time to do housework and they feel entitled to my labor/money since I'm back here and like most people they don't particularly care if $8.00 isn't enough to split and save. $8.00 is a buck or two above the minimum wage here - and a few cents below the $3.10 min. wage of 1980 after inflation. I save far more (including time - both spent on work and on pursuit of work) by simply not working.

Now imagine if I was in a situation where I could do this my entire life, even after they retire. Even after they die, because it would be more profitable than actually working and society would reward it.

Do you think it's disgusting? Why are you arguing for it?

Can you reduce this to terms an idiot like me can understand? Teach me the political slang, senpai. I promise I'm an honest mind, if an untempered one.
I don't spend my time reading political book. I don't know what you mean at all by any of that.

I'm willing to read your posts. Don't bother shortening them with common expressions, because at that point I won't understand.

You do want a different world, and that's an issue because there are countless people flourishing in our CURRENT one. It seems better to continue working on the system we already have rather than throwing it all out and starting anew.

Bad comedians blame the setting and the audience. Good ones recognize that their joke is bombing and work around it. Your solution, to me, is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I'm curious as to why you're so eager to overhaul society rather than perfect it. I'm also amused that you think the "new society" would operate smoothly.

I want a different world because I see things around me getting slowly, but progressively worse over time. I will probably be fine myself for a while but you cannot live without society. I worry about my friends and family.
I read Marx and agree with the conclusions he draws from the data he uses. So now I know there are certain laws and tendencies at work in our current society that align with what I see personally. If these prove to be true(which empirical data seems to suggest), there is no way out. There is no overhauling society.

I don't disagree with you. There are unspoken social laws that govern how people carry themselves, and society is becoming worse as a result. But you might as well have been alluding to Cthulu, because, having never read Marx, I don't know of what omen you speak from which there is no escape.
Obviously it's a tall order for me to demand a Marx-education over the internet (although I wouldn't mind one), but the biggest obstacle for me is literally not knowing anything about Marx.

My number one goal is similar to yours: ensuring the safety of myself, my friends and my family, and in my eyes one way to do that is to oppose a violent revolution which may bring them harm.

You can always flee if you're affluent enough. What are you, a poormie?

I shouldn't have to. I'd rather fight you to the death than be pushed from my homeland. People think I'm a troll but I'm dead serious.

Can we not come to some sort of conclusion that works for both of us? What are your concerns, in your own words? What do you predict to be the cancer in society? Chances are, we'll agree at least in part.

A lot of people who agree with Marx on these laws of capitalism will tend to see immanent signs of collapse everywhere, so forgive me for painting a doomsday picture. I suggest just reading Marx. Getting this kind of info through a third party almost always misconstrues his work. Even if you end up disagreeing, having an understanding of it will at least provide you with ammunition to combat these pesky communists, liberals and leftists everywhere. There's also the saying that Marxists are the best capitalists.
There's a reading list on this board that is quite nice.

Doesn't sound like ensuring your own safety to me, why the contradiciton?

Yes, it’s so utopian that this policy has been already adopted by several developed countries

I fear this kind of policy encourages an scenario where "middle income" families get declared wealthy enough to pay, dilluting class consciousness and creating resentment between workers.

And undeveloped too, like Brazil. My cousin is gonna turn a Dentist this year.

The modern university should be abolished not made "free"

Thank you for your courtesy, my man. Maybe I should read Marx if I want to disavow him. However, it's not necessarily Marx I'm disavowing, but the currently living people who follow his philosophy.

If this philosophy is not something one has extensive linguistic command of, is it still a philosophy, or is it idolatry? I think that's my biggest fear: that Marxists find no glaring errors in his work and thus ascribe to him omnipotence beyond their personal agency.

You said you personally agree, though, so I have to be careful not to imply you are a man without agency. Clearly, you have it, because you decided to agree with Marx in a non-Marxist world. This is a complex argument. It is objective in nature but anyone involved is doomed to approach from subjective light.

Basically you have my respect for willingly bearing the burden of this dialogue, when you could have easily called me a fag and run off as most are wont to do

My love for my homeland exceeds my love for myself. If you are to be the world-ending demons of my lifetime, it would be an honor to kill you.

That, and I'm pretty sure we on the side of justice and civility would win. God, you're an insufferable type. I can only imagine what turned you into this bloodthirsty leech

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*tips*

America is a capitalist shithole

All decisions of the individual, still. Your buddies at Walgreens, all of them, ultimately chose to be there. Would a psychology degree be more useful in a communist state than in our current one? Truthfully, psychology in general strikes me as incredibly charlatan. Your buddy accrued debt for his bachelors in whatever it was. He CHOSE to accrue debt.

I'm still standing by what I said. Obviously no business is guaranteed to succeed. Success requires intelligence as well as hard work, and it usually requires large-scale cooperation to be the best it can. Call me propagandized, I'll call you dissonant.

So sit there smugly behind your beer glass. I say exactly what I mean. I answer honest questions honestly, not with "cleverness" and sarcasm. Everyone is exactly where they deserve to be.

Fuck it, if your revolution kills me, I'll deserve to be dead. That's how the world works, but it's a two way street: if communism has failed literally EVERY TIME it's been superimposed, what I gather is that, in the Darwinist sense, it does not deserve to be.

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Fag. You aren't worthy of my beautiful words. To address you is to tarnish my soul, yet I do. I do because I have a spine. I will stand up to any observable tyranny, and the only palpable tyranny in this world right now is that proposed by you and yours.

What is Medicare?
Get a scholarship, or be born a person of color, and they’ll practically throw fucking free education at you.

retard lmao

Just because some people want to study something which interests them instead of having in mind generating as much capital as possible doesn't mean they deserve to strugle with their life. "Invisible hand of free market" is not God giving everyone what he deserves.

And I'm saying that as stemfag. I don't mind working hard to acquire more in my life.

Socialism in my country provided really good living conditions to my nation. Since we adopted capitalism, living conditions for average prole are more-less stagnating, in comparison with stable growth under planned economy.

They would all prefer not to be there. Your blatant attempts to ignore the greater social context of our problems is one of the great diseases of our society.
Yes, because all labor would be done for its usefulness to society, rather than its ability to reproduce capital.
She. And with the idea that doing so would give her access to a high paying, or at least more personally fulfilling job. The inhuman force of capital saw her peddling out cheap cosmetics instead.

It requires the ability to reproduce and accumulate capital by whatever means. These means can be, frequently are, far less admirable than the virtues attributed to success by neoliberal propagandists.

I don't care if you peddle out your secular Great Chain of Being honestly, what I care about is that you and your ilk still cling to that medieval bullshit even without a God to justify it.

Yes, personal choices can have a lot to do with where you end up, but what choices you have, the range of possibility, is well out of your control and has everything to do with the greater socio-economic context, which isn't getting into all the shit that just happens to people that is beyond their control.

Do you know what happened to the first attempts by liberal capitalism to establish itself? It was crushed by the feudal powers or "failed". And now it dominates the world. What's important isn't if this or that revolution succeeds, but the general progression of history, and capitalism is nearing its end.

Honestly, you come off as an insufferable pseud. I'm serious. You "critique" things without even having the slightest knowledge of them, rely on strawmen constantly, go off on bizarre tangents, make bad analogies like it's your fetish, make historical claims that are oversimplified at best and flat-out wrong at worst, and look down on others for having a terminology specific to the subject at hand (which is the case with practically everything), all while adopting a smug "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude that just betrays your own shallowness. And for all your blithering about "insufferable" "cleverness" and "smugness," given how you've done absolutely nothing but puff out hot air while putting on airs of superiority that are totally unearned.

TL;DR no saje, you are the insufferable smug asshole

and then saje was a pseud

starving americans is a meme
I grew up in a family of 4, for most of my childhood we had no income but a combination of social security, unemployment, and disability
we also got free healthcare from the state and food stamps
all of our needs were met except housing which we scrounged together from the above and some under the table jobs that brought in next to nothing
the only reason I post on Holla Forums is because I dont know any other way to live, I was raised in socialism and it was okay, I probably would have died/not existed if not for the socialist state in america, even today I live off of my social security
I have to believe my life is valuable and has meaning, and it is the result of socialism, so socialism is good

kill yourself dude

then what is it exactly?

Fag

Which country are you in, then, if you're to serve as a first person example? In turn, that country can serve to highlight the benefits of your position.

Strawmen and doomsaying. Everybody wants more than they're worth, and not everybody gets it. In my devious opinion, that is actually a strength of the first world: this more subtle version of natural selection in which the inept are lacking in significance.

Maybe if you plan ahead, you realize that the world doesn't need more psychiatrists. If you plan ahead, you realize that maybe an electrician is in greater demand where you want to be. Maybe it's a plumber. A trucker, maybe. But nope, they wanted to go to
And now they're stuck at Walgreens. There IS a problem in this world, and it's NOT our meritocratic system. It's heads full of dreams and mouths full of smoke.

What are your terms? What do you stand for? Are you the demon spirit of Karl Marx speaking through a thrall possession?

I fucking hate this website man i've scrolled up and down so many times. I mean I like you guys it's just this whole format is making me crazy.

tankies btfo

feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-and-poverty-facts.html
Whoo wee, loving that capitalism

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You're the one with his eyes on my shit man. I try to reach constructive discourse but you guys have your fucking codes and you use terms I don't understand. I just want to diffuse this time-bomb of a mind virus you've been infected with.

really makes you think

economic freedom. Living without fear of not being able to get comfy job for decent pay, losing everything in next economic crash because of debts and so on. Read Cockshott if you want to hear something more clever.

I do not understand what are you asking me. Can you rephrase it a little?

it was never socialism, but having free healthcare and school is comfy in both socialism and capitalism.

under this definition america is socialist, I can happily type away at my desk all day, do whatever I want and be comfey, and never worry about getting a job or anything

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I dont pay taxes

Look, I'll maybe try again tomorrow. Fresh slate. I made a lot of errors this evening and it's finally beginning to show.

I don't know why you all want a kill or be killed situation but I almost don't care at this point. Call me a pseude. Communism is the most pseudo-intellectual concept I've ever had the opportunity of engaging with
Give me a fucking break. There's no dimension where that's a smooth ride. You make Richard Spencer look sober.

I'm sorry we can't be brainlets like you.

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Dude, you're the one thinking you're "saving" us when you won't even make the extra effort to understand what we say while assuming we're a hive mind who all want the same situation. You're a pseud because you visibly don't know what you're talking about.
Like your whole greentext thing: the fuck is that even supposed to mean?

fucking class traitor

google, wikipedia, and dictionaries all exist.

And you're not trying to reach "constructive discourse," you're going out of your way to act like a willfully ignorant smug asshole. Literally every toxic behavior you've been accusing us of has been exhibited by you throughout this thread.

protip: calling something "pseudo-intellectual" just because you don't understand it or don't agree with it is the most pseud thing you can do

Only for 65 year olds

So you agree with me

LUL

And you didn't even answer the for-profit prisons… Low energy ancap cuck. Boot licker of big corporations

No shit.

Nihilistic outlook doesn't change the fact that you're a fuckwit with no conception as to what marxism or anarchism or any leftist ideology is for that matter.
Pseude.
How so? Are you going to call Kropotkin a scientist, Marx, an economist and a historian, and Zizek a philospher pseuds given their analysis?

Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.
Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.
Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.
Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.
Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.
Only people who want to be and/or are suited to do so.

But even then a good chunk of that labour would be automated, making the necessity of those jobs either questionable or done so out of a hobby.

You're implying FULL COMMUNISM has been achieved. Even then, lower stages of communism had their bumps due to interferences from other agents, be it imperialism, infighting, transitionary phases, and the fact that they were waging a revolution.

Underage alcoholic projects himself.

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That is false. I have loans like many other people.

Hey. This guy, here:

Is Saje the same guy I was responding to with that big post?

Except people are given less than they're worth as a necessary condition of employment.

Yes, with mental illness and personality disorders at epidemic levels in our population, maybe we don't need any more psychologists. With fuckers going ballistic all the time and murdering tons of people, what we obviously need is more electricians and plumbers.

It's amazing the flying backwards flips you're willing to perform to justify the status quo.

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Yellowstone, explode!
Yellowstone, explode!
Yellowstone, explode!
Yellowstone, explode!
Yellowstone, explode!
Yellowstone, explode!
Absolve all sins with fiery justice.
Banish the scourge with blazing heat.
Erase the entire continent. Nothing good is there. Nothing.

?

this but unironically