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Stalin was the last good Soviet leader. The rest were fully committed to reviving capitalism in the USSR, despite their public statements to the contrary. Still their efforts against America were good and should be defended.
Stalin>Marx>Engels>Lenin Prove me wrong
(tip: you can't)
Is this board satire? Are you all pretending to believe in communism, or are you actually that retarded?
Chernenko was basically a living corpse that was trotted out for party functions. What's so good about him?
Lenin > Stalin > Everyone else though. Starting from le corn man it's all bad to worse
Unpopular opinion: Brezhnev was worse than Krushchev.
That's just the goddamn truth and I wish more tanks would give Brezhnev the trashing he deserves.
Yes, people with opinions different from yours are a myth. Feel free to give us the usual burger lecture if it makes you feel better though
Khrushchev at least promoted communism, somewhat. I guess shoving missiles in America's face was sort of Trotskyist.
It was pretty neat, although unprepared. The nukes America got rid of in Turkey it was planning to remove anyways because they were so old, and I can imagine there were several ways to challenge the blockade imposed on Cuba.
Tbh I like Kruschev. Sure it introduced right wing reforms but his policies of detente were actually intelligent, since military spending was such a huge drain on the Soviet economy. Brezhnev was much worse, since he didn’t roll back Kruschev’s reforms, but he did re-instigate tensions with the West and resumed the military buildup that continued to sap the USSR’s economic strength. They should have slashed their conventional military and relied on their nuclear deterrent tbh.
READ A BOOK
Well, at least it's better than the 16 year old Holla Forumsyps we usually get
There is nothing wrong with anti-religious persecution, though.
Trolling, false flagging, spamming.
why u doin this
I would, but I'm banned.
And to everyone else strawmanning with "lol how can u believe different things than me??", the actual question is "How can you believe in a system that has produced nothing but objective failure every time it's been tried?" Add in a few genocides so atrocious that they make the holocaust look like a joke, and we're not merely talking about "believing in something different", like it's some kind of preference in ice cream flavors.
Lenin > Khrushchev > Gorbachev > Yeltsin > Brezhnev > Nicholas II > Stalin
Stalin turned the Soviet Union into a crypto fascist Russian chauvinist state. Leninists oppose all forms of national chauvinism. A national chauvinist entity cannot be socialist.
a fucking Trotskyite.
kill yourself vermin.
What does this do to your paradigm?
cuz its hot tbh
Have you read "Marxism and the National Question" by J.V. Stalin?
If Stalin was a Russian chauvinist, he wouldn't have supported cultural autonomy for non-Russian nations within the USSR.
Lenin quite literally called him a 'Great Russian' chauvinist
How the fuck was he wrong? How can you build international socialism but support national separatism/balkanization at the same time? Stupid as fuck.
Cultural autonomy, predicated by equal representation of constituent sub-states. Y'know, as in the very basic idea of a union of 'soviets'.
I didn't find that in the text you quoted.
If anything, the debacle regarding Finland proved Stalin right. The proletarian revolution in Finland was drowned in blood and the imperialists won an important foothold and all the USSR got in return was getting to feel good about letting them secede when in fact capitalist Finland was a thorn in the USSR's side until the post-WWII at the earliest.
I find it odd that Stalin did not criticize Lenin on this point since it was actually deserving of it.
Forgive me, he called him a nationalist-socialist and a vulgar great-Russian bully. My wording didn't do the aspersion justice
Bruh, he backstabbed Che Guevara, who idolised Stalin.
Communism isn’t a monolithic movement, only two models of socialism have ever been attempted on a large scale: Marxism-Leninism (and its variants like Maoism) and market socialism. Out of those two only one could be said to have failed due to its inherent issues rather than other factors, since predatory lending and ethnic tensions had a lot to do with sinking market socialism in Yugoslavia. Basically there is nobody who is calling to just repeat the mistakes of the USSR again, rather we want to learn from them and develop a working model of socialism.
Okay, so according to most people, “victims of communism” are people who died from starvation or other preventable causes, wars, and political repression under communism. If we are going by these metrics, then preventable causes alone kill around 20 million people every year under capitalism, not to say anything of wars or repression. These people die of starvation, lack of water, lack of shelter, or treatable illness, despite all the resources existing to solve these problems. Rather their deaths are the result of capitalism failing to make these resources available. So if you are going to abandon a system because it kills millions, then you should abandon capitalism right now.
That second line would've been really good if you didn't demonstrate absolute retardation by putting Yeltsin and Gorby on the list, plus Nicholas II. Mediocre effort at false flag
Notice that he doesn't name Stalin directly but this is in fact added by Marxist Internet Archive which is well known for its Trotskyist sympathies. He could have been talking about another Georgian though it is likely he is talking about Stalin. However, while Lenin was brutally critical against both friends and allies, his burns of Stalin don't even reach the level of scorn he heaped on Trotsky:
I've no particular grievance to be filed against Stalin in the name of Trotsky, as I surely find the latter within a far more odious company than that of the former. Opportunists and orienteers persist without regards to their compatriots, I've only an interest in a common Soviet historicity.
Whoever you are and wherever you live I always screencap these posts.
You have a laudable amount knowledge.
Source for Ho Chi Minh's claim about Chinese Trotkyists allying with Japan?
The source is Ho Chi Minh, a revolutionary who committed his life to proletarian liberation. What more do you need?
History books, primary sources (texts, state documents, letters of important figures). Stop being a faggot.
I believe you and Ho Chi Minh, I just want to learn more about the subject.
Tbh Mao worked with the Japanese to crush the Korean anarchists.
Another user, it was under the auspices of the "Chinese Soviet Republic", but they did play a part in the partition of the Korean Anarchist Federation (province Shinmin) in Manchuria between the Chinese and the Japanese Imperial Forces
Tommy Douglas, Olof Palme, Corbyn, Melenchon
Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Any Kim Jong
Change Andropov with Chernenko and you've got a decent list. Chernenko was already dying at start of his term.
Andropov was the best KGB leader and opened his year with anti-corruption campaign and work-discipline policies.
Is this irony?
yeltsin's neoliberal economic policies caused the deaths of 4.2mil people from poverty in Russia alone.
I thought he's been dead for like 20 years. Is this the Mandela effect?
It's just good thinking.
On the other hand I'm kind of happy that he's still breathing seen how he's basically living in his personal hell.
The fucker can't even go back to russia for his birthday because no one would show up
Stalin, Kim Il Sung and sons
Lenin, Deng Xiaoping
Mao, Hoxha, Castro
Has Gorby actually acknowledged that he fucked up on such a monumental level? Does he show regret for the passing of the USSR?
The truth is that Gorbachev was a Wehrmacht spy planted in Ukraine to overtrow the Ussr from inside.
But Gorby would've been just ten when the Germans began their invasion of the USSR.
It must've taken your only two brain cells quite the effort to compile such a list, huh?
Honestly, I can't bring myself down to viciously hating Gorbachev. Of course, he was totally wrong, he had no clue about Marxism, his policies were wrong. But he was dedicated to the USSR, he unironically thought he could save socialism with market reforms, and modernize it. He paid bitterly for this, but at least he believed in something.
Yeltsin, on the other hand, was a corrupt capitalist oligarch and wish him pestilence and cholera.
What kind of conspiracy theory Holla Forums tier bullshit is this.
Capitalist pawn maybe but the wehrmacht ended with ww2, you're telling me that a single remaining German Nazi pawn managed to take down an entire superpower just out of spite and vengeance for his own nation being fucked?
There are still Japanese soldiers fighting in the jungles of Indonesia. I'm not kidding.
It's not so incredible. The nazis in retreat leaved behind an army of guerrillas, and they were kids.
what was wrong with Andropov ?
I can. As leader of the largest and greatest worker's state to ever exist, it was the duty of Gorbachev to ensure that the USSR and her allies are defended by any and all means possible.
Gorbachev neglected his duties, and as the whole system began to rot around him, he just stood back. Yeltsin is far worse, but seriously, fuck them both.
Leave now you revisionist.
Oh shit son, sauce?
Juche doesn't transcend ML, it's just supposed to add some stuff to it, especially in regards to the Korean conditions. Nowhere have they claimed it would depart from ML.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Gorbachev acted in negligence, he didn't want to bring down the USSR and believed he was doing the right thing. Yeltsin on the other hand only was only in for his own gain.
In my country, killing someone by being negligent doesn't even get you to prison. Yet, intentional homicide might get you a lifelong sentence. There is a quantitative difference.
Gorbachev was far better than """Comrade""" Stalin
Blows my mind that Yeltsin was never assassinated by any of the hundreds of millions of people whose lives he destroyed.
Николай II Александрович
Makhno, Sankara, Subcomandante Marcos, Kim Chwa Chin, Rosa
Durruti, Maurice Bishop,
Magon, Ocalan, Delescluze, Nagy, Lenin, Bela Kun, Heng.
Mao, Castro, Guevara, Ho Chi Minh, De Leon, Tito
Trotsky, Mugabe, Stalin
Pol Pot, Gorbachev, Deng, Xi Jingping,
Brezhnev is an absolute shit, he ruined the soviet union. Should go with Gorbachov in the last tier
heh lol ??
He triggers the shit out of Rhodesia fanboys tho.
He was a stalinist.
he's a joke and even the ANC are telling him to kindly fuck off after all the damage he caused to everyone
You say it like its a terrible thing
You say it like its a good thing.
That's why he's low tier. I'd put him on shit tier if he didn't piss of Rhodfags as much as he does.
stalin was not marxist or even communist he was a criminal and opportunist, most likely a demon possessed man
revisionist and politically illiterate AF, but at least he made some efforts to make his own form of theory, shit as it was.
majority were just poor suckers in the wrong place at the wrong time, the initial criteria for being a kulak was anyone who could afford to pay someone else 2months wages or had some grain in their house, eventually this criteria was eliminated and the police would just round up anyone they didn't like
Lenin is not like the others, and why is goldman worth liking again?
I like him too but dude…
Your entire mid tier list except Mao should at least high tier godamn anarkids.
Debs, Hampton, Haywood
Rosa, Lenin, Che, Sankara, Ocalan, Newton
Castro, Trotsky, Tito, Ho Chi Minh, Hoxha
Stalin, Andropov, Kim Jong Un
Kruschev, Brezhnev, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il
Pol Pot, Bob Avakian, Phil Greaves
Marx and Engels
Rosa Luxemburg and Leon Trotsky
Stalin, Mao, Che, Castro, Makhno, Kropotkin, Stirner, Pol Pot, Mugabe, the Kim dynasty and scho on and scho on
Anyone who didn't manage or have the possibility to do anything so that I can I fetishize failed revolutions and indept idiots as better than anyone else
Someone I can safely put on my shirt
Someone I can praise without causing too much controversy
Anyone who did something
Legitimate fuck ups
ITT: People who are not ML just because they don't want to defend the USSR
you could start by reading a book. try blackshirts and reds by michael parenti
No but on a serious note, much of what you've been told about socialism is objectively bullshit since the comical death tolls you see about communism basically include anyone who died for any reason in those regions at that time, including casualties from WW2 which Hitler started. (To add, the whole "Stalin won WW2 by throwing literal shitloads of men at them until they ran out of ammo" is also a myth).
This is not to say that the historical attempts at socialism were not without contradictions and some did do objectively terrible things, but the unuanced "bad thing = drop everything to do with the movement and give no further consideration" is an absolutely terrible way to go about developing good political theory and practice. We should look to discover precisely what the context was to the tragedy, its causes, and find solutions to ensure they do not happen again. Science, materialism, and progress are at the core of socialist ideology, and as long as those are used to influence socialist praxis I am convinced we can greater a better world for everyone.
I’m not ML and I defend the USSR in some areas.
I suppose Yeltsin is as well then?
This thread is genius. It shows brilliantly the retardation that's going on in this board
It's better than id pol bickering idiots.
nicky murdered cats for fun.
Stalin murdered fellow communists just because he wanted power.
That cat killing thing also could be propaganda of the revolution by the way. Never heard of that before.
How was Brest-Litovsk not a necessity?
It is true, he kept diaries of how many animals he had killed on his bicycle trips. Not even hunting trips, he'd cycle and shoot at random animals for fun. He was a cat and pigeon killing machine
Marx, Engels, Lenin
Chernenko, Andropov, Melenkov
Well, still better than killing people. Hunting isn't the most terrible sport even if his choice of animals was obscure. I would be troubled and feel like relieving stress too if I was the rather incompetent head of a crumbling empire and unable to control it or to forsee future events that will lead to my downfall + my son is sick and people say my wife cheats on me with some mystic dude.
I think the user meant like personally killing people.
Kim Il sung, Xi Jinping
Mao, Hoxha, Castro
Pol Pot,Deng Xiaoping
I should've added Mao to High tier and Xi to Mid.
Or only add Mao to high
I meant to point out that killing animals isn't comparable or nearly as horrible or unforgivable as killing people. I didn't mean to imply Nicky wasn't responsible for countless deaths lol.
Nah. Besides I think Stalin never killed anyone personally. At least I read that in a biography long ago I think.
Oh, that's what the context was - then you're absolutely right. Stalin never personally killed anyone
lol. Read young stalin.
He was the jesse James of the caucasus.
Still this doesn't mean shit. He was a good leader, the best the Soviet Union ever had and could have
I think user was implying that only a fucking ☭TANKIE☭ would 'accidentally' rank a state capitalist over an actual communist leader. And tbh I have to agree with that lol.
I think y'all don't really understand Socialism with chinese Charachteristics and spout "State Capitalism" like leftcoms
To the contrary, I'm convinced wholly that you don't know the difference between """national pragmatism""", a market economy functioning with didactic organization, and that hole in your ass.
Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin
Kim Jong Sung, Kim Jong Il, Kim Jong Un
Hussein, Gadaffi, Assad
Hoxha, Mao, Breshnev
Khrushchev, Dubcek, Gorbachev, Zhuganov […]
It's because they're useful idiots. too stupid to think for themselves. jews spread democracy by force and invented communism for the exact reason that idiots like these exist in great enough numbers to always buy into it and subvert any democratic nation. of course they exist.
WEW, did you faggots even check this list?
I don't know where else to post this gem I found on /leftpol/
Says the guy parroting Hitlerite propaganda from 80 years ago
Stalin personally helped torture disidents. Witnesses say his hands were often bloody.
Why would you support stalin?
Even Lenin was cautious of the man.
It was socialist, it was just an absolute dogshit example of it. Even North Korea has workplace democracy, the USSR had one man management ffs.
We’re only using the same logic that porkies do fam. They include shit like Soviet citizens killed by the Germans in WW2 as “victims of communism,” we’re just applying their own logic to their system.
It wasn't the peace treaty with Germany in particular. It's the fact that Trotsky walked out of the first Brest-Litovsk negotiations because the krauts, very predictably, didn't agree to give up all the land they won during the war. This might have otherwise been a fairly competent move(since Germany needed the land to literally not starve)…. if it were not for the fact that Lenin disbanded the Russian army at the beginning of the armistice. When said armistice ended, German troops were left unopposed as they took hundreds of miles of territory with no fucking resistance.
This action not only cost the revolution Estonia and Latvia, but almost lead to the entire thing being crushed, since the German army was only 50 miles from Petrograd.
Late reply of course, but still.
BASED ANPRIM WOOOO