So I feel that a lot of people here don't know much about Allende's death and what exactly happened that day and just how much of a badass Allende was. I feel that as a chilean socialist, I must tell you about it: At this point, this is where there's still some debate about how exactly Allende died, but it was not suicide. The book I got all this info from puts the most likely option as this:
The book btw is called "Allende: I won't surrender". If you speak spanish, or manage to find a translation, I highly recommend it.
This sort of behaviour is why I am moving away from anarchist and left communist thought. Allende was a hero to the Childean people for all the right reasons. His only mistake really was not arming the unions.
Was that book ‘The murder of Allende and the end of the Chilean way to socialism’?
If so, that account of Allende’s death is based on Fidel Castro’s retelling of events. Castro was obviously not there and is not a primary source. He told his (imo fictionalized) version of the story to entertain and rile up crowds in Cuba. An autopsy conducted in 2011 concluded Allende died via suicide. The autopsy was a done collaboratively by many doctors from all over the world who all reached the same consensus. If it was done by some shady Chilean doctor connected to the government prosecutor I would be skeptical, but that is not the case.
I realize you all want Allende to have gone down guns blazing, but it is unlikely that happened.
Eli White
No, it was "Allende: I won't surrender". The original is in spanish, and I'm not sure if a translated version exists, but if you can find one, I highly recommend it. Not only does it look at what happened through a logical stance, yoy know, pointing out how certai things in the official, suicide story don't add up, but also through a scientific view, analysing the autopsies done to Allende, and so on
David Martinez
Allende's popular front, UP, was a bourgeois blocking coalition whose only accomplishment was in frustrating and ultimately killing proletariat momentum by funneling it into the parliamentary circus.
Cybersyn was dope tho.
Brody Reyes
There is no practical difference. You can't reform capitalism out of existence. DemSocs have their heart in the right place, but in times of actual revolutionary struggle, good intentions aren't going to cut it, especially if you end up being a hindrance.
Allende was a badass, and uncomparably superior to Pinochet. That being said, he still isn't our comrade.
I see what you mean, but it's not so much about the UP, it's about Allende. The way I see it, the UP, and Allende's government wasn't socialist, but Allende was, if you know what I mean. Kinda like how Stalin's government wasn't communist, that doesn't mean he wasn't a communist, he was
Luis Clark
I agree with everything you said except that last part. Why would Allende not be our comrade? His government may not have established socialism, that still doesn't mean he wasn't socialist. Imo, Allende, alongside Che and Fidel, are role models for latin american socialism and most certainly comrades
Robert Lewis
Magical thread. By the first comment people are already fighting.
He was indistinguishable from a Rosa Killer. He didn't achieve even the earliest stages of socialism, we ended up paving the way for a fascist take over, and in the end all he has to show for it is that he got couped.
Liberals are better than fascists. Social Democrats are better than just plain liberals. That doesn't make either liberals nor social democrats our comrades.
Henry White
Allende is the closest thig Chile had been to socialism. And also, why did both Che and Fidel love Allende so much if he was "just a socdem"?
Thomas Rivera
South american left is cancer. They are an opportunistic scum that at every occasion pushes keynesian policies to keep their grasp on power, then when those policies become unsustainable fashies take over and butcher everything. And it happens every fucking time.
Carter Flores
The likes of FDR or LBJ were the closest thing the US had to socialism (and Bernie too if he won). Clement Attlee is the closest the UK had to socialism. Are we seriously going to actually give them any value other than the fact that compared to presidents/prime ministers they weren't utter shit?
I'd suggest looking into the concept of People's Democracy. The concept is tied with Marxism-Leninism, and I'd say Che and Castro saw Allende as an expression of the concept, more or less.
Plus, Allende was comparably very pro-worker to most other Latin American rulers, and was anti-capitalist!
Ethan Green
I agree. No where else can I find more socialist movements and people without fail becoming SocDems than in Latin America.
Anthony Lee
...
William Collins
Allende isn't comparable to FDR, Allende expropriated and nationalized the copper industry from american bourgeoisie, FDR did nothing comparable to that
Jordan Howard
Cuba and Nicaragua are not South America
Brayden Allen
Fair enough, I usually prefer usig Latin america to include both south and central america
Latin America includes North America too. E.g. Mexico
Lincoln Ross
Yeah, true but you get what I mean
Lincoln Barnes
Neither did Stalin.
Jack Adams
You don’t know fucking anything. You think the fascists taking over was the fault of the leftists? No you dumb fucking Jew that would be the CIA
Landon Ramirez
This should be changed to everyone saying "fucking leftcom"
Camden Gray
Yes and no. They orchestrated the coup, but the agency isn't an omnipotent force of nature as proven by Cuba. There had to be stept to be taken in order to avoid getting CIA'd that weren't done.
wtf this never fucking happened, I doubt he had the training necessary to land a hit while under the tension of literal warfare.
The amount of burgers on this thread completely discarding the UP's experience is hilarious. Even if they naively believed that they could build socialism through the bourgeois state, they did tons to organize the working class, unlike the actual social democrats.
tbh they are, it's just some are capitalist traitors like the german SPD and some stay true to their roots
Robert Campbell
Why do you act as if you know everything about what happened that day. So judt cause you say "this never happened" we should believe you. Tell, have you ready any book or piece of info regarding Allende's last moments? Because I seriously doubt you have.
Chase Nelson
Why have I never heard of this before? RIP you magnificent bastard.
So he isn't? where do the claims that he Is even comefrom?
Cooper Parker
t.Allende
In response to his views and the claim of him being racist, etc, his daughter said: ""Never, in all his public life, did he ever *again* (emphasis by me) manifest these aberrations, nor did he consider translating them into concrete actions," He wrote his dissertation in his late 20's. I'm busy, I'll come back to this thread later.
Luke Jones
OP, that sounds like a bad fanfic. Allende's own daughter says his death was suicide.
Clover poster's information is probably based on a crude fabrication by historian Víctor Farías that made the rounds in 2005. In his dissertation, Allende refers to views of Cesare Lombroso (muh genetic criminals who you can tell by how ugly they are) and saying that he got no data supporting that viewpoint. Farías then quoted Allende quoting and paraphrasing, pretending that to be Allende's own views: taz.de/!600689/ (in German, sorry.) As far as I know, the only thing that holds up is that Allende had some interest in sterilizing mentally ill people by law (no such law passed though), and even that bit got exaggerated by Farías.
Carter Gomez
soy chileno conchetumare obvio que he leído más que voh' pedazo de perkin
Jaxson Cruz
ah, there you go. i've actually been looking for the dissertation. do you know where i could find it?
Carson Diaz
Lee "Allende: No me rendire" y ahi hablamos maricon
Justin Torres
Just cause his daughter says it was suicide we should believe her? Just look at the facts and logic of what actually happened. Hell even Palacios himself said multiple times (even in an east german documentary) that he killed Allende. I'm surprised so many "socialists" are so convinced by rightwing propaganda
Michael Myers
Check this out, this is Allende's thesis from 1933: www.elclarin.cl/pdf/tesis_sag.pdf I barely speak any Spanish, but it's enough to figure out that this: is the bit about Italians you mention, it's paraphrasing the opinión de some guy named Pende. is the Jew thing you mention. It's a quote from Lombroso.
Daniel Davis
kek, i can read spanish, the original thesis is what i was truly after to check for myself, so i'll give this a read. thanks my dude
Josiah Turner
Can I get some sources for this? Thanks in advance t.Gringo who doesn't read any Spanish
Matthew Foster
There is an east german documentary, which its original name is "Im Feuer bestanden" (Mas fuerte que el Fuego) or stronger than fire in english. It goes over pretty much every detail of Allende's last moments and what happened that day. As far as I know, there is the german original and a spanish translation, however I'm not sure if an english translation exists. As for what Palacios said, it's in the book "Allende:I won't surrender" and was also backed up by one of Palacios' friends who told the authors that he had killed Allende. Again I'm not sure if an english translation of the book exists. The book is pic related
