Is left wing idpol the number 1 threat to true leftism? Id say they're even more dangerous than porky at this point...

is left wing idpol the number 1 threat to true leftism? Id say they're even more dangerous than porky at this point. Left wing idpolers will literally infiltrate and sabotage an actual leftist movent because it goes against their specific brand of idpol.

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Other urls found in this thread:

paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/
ahtribune.com/history/1027-homo-sovieticus.html
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jan/17.htm
marxists.org/archive/zetkin/1920/lenin/zetkin1.htm

fuck trans people

BO will probably cast xir tyranny on this thread

never go full retard

Hello, fellow 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧leftist🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Stop using that abortion-of-science case "study" to make a point - ANY point. It's been exploited by all sorts of sides as evidence they're right, but all it's actually evidence of is that "Doctor" Money was a monster and abuse will fuck up a kid. Using that story to support a point about gender is both unreasonable and unethical.

its true though

Porky is the one pushing idpol.

what do you think the porky meme means? do you even know?

Who could be behind these posts?

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Hey porky how ya doing

It is, though.
Using anecdotal evidence to support your point is Holla Forums-tier.

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...

Trannies are the socialist vanguard since they have abandoned one of the biggest spooks

The "radfems of OP's pic" don't even exist, it's a mess of a strawman. TERFs support gender essentialism… otherwise they wouldn't be TERFs.

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Sex and dating under capitalism is coercive 100% of the time. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's always rape, but there is always an element of prostitution in sexual relationships. Yes even yours. That's not to say that people shouldn't date or fuck, but there's no reason to pretend that your interpersonal relationships exist in some non-economic vacuum.

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Which spook?

That's why I invite all my dates to the cold vacuum of space in an alternate universe lacking the influence of liberal capitalism, so there is no coercion or implications

That penises can't be feminine

I wish ;_;

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OwO

I'll never understand these posts. Are you saying that the idea of men and women is made up? Because I'm pretty sure men and women both have different biology. You don't see men giving birth. And the idea that the left should ally itself with sexually confused, often mentally ill people who want to cut off their dicks is just silly to me.

*notices bulge*

...

Traps, shemales, and femboys =/= trannies. The self-mutilation is the point where they become trannies.
Trannies are literally just gay people that can't embrace their own body and get talked into it by doctors looking for 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧profit🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 and society because society can't accept that boys can like boys and girls can like girls.

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This is all assuming that liberals will help you abolish capitalism, which is of course, incorrect.

...

Simply explain how economic abolishment along with cultural abolishment will lead to true egalitarianism.

No one is born already being a commie.

liberals don't want true egalitarianism though, that's why they are what they are

speak for yourself, I grabbed the means of reproduction the moment I was born

Well true that, most of them are.just minority nationalists but explain to them.how equality helps their own kind.

I never made the claim that would or wouldn't so I'm not sure why you're asking that of me. My only point is that your typical liberal is not an ally and probably will never be an ally because they're only concerned with the most shallow of societal issues and as such treating them as though they're your friend is foolish. A liberal does not care if workers are being oppressed, they only care if some sort of minority is being oppressed. Liberals can be radicalized but I'd be willing to guess that most are pretty set in their own ideology and won't budge.

Gross, tbh

Pls spoiler that shit

...

If gender is just a social construct, why should I feel the need to defend whatever flavor of the month gender someone is? Like, I get why you wouldn’t go out of your way to be a dick, by why should I care?

I'm glad we were able to have this conversation.

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That's not what I said at all, user.

The existence of distinct male and female biological entities tells us very little about gender (roles, identity, etc). What is expected to be proper manhood or virility and proper womanhood or femininity is informed by many factors dependent on history, economics and social organization. It's called material conditions, you might have heard about it.

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The multiplication of gender identity labels has no emancipatory potential and should be dismissed as the shallow fad that it is. You can be critical of gender roles AND tumblr wankery, you know.

we get it you're edgy, so why don't just fuck off and go trigger people over tumblr by telling them there are only two genders

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This type of attitude won't get you far. And yes, gender dysphoria is a mental illness. If thinking that mutilating your own genitalia because you 'feel like a different gender' shouldn't be encouraged makes me edgy, then fuck it, I'm edgy

yeah fuck mentally ill people, they're not true proles, they're lumpens!! the left shouldn't associate with some of the most wretched victims of late capitalism… depressives genocide when?

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At best I see liberals as useful idiots to get our foot in the door to spread our ideas. At worst if left to their own devices they become a problem. I remember the neo liberal "reforms" that gutted post Soviet Russia

Surgical removal and reassignment have nothing to do with "mutilation", especially considering it is known to be an effective mean of dealing with the issue (it significantly lowers suicide rates, for instance).

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Porky and liberal idpol are the same entity.
Second I fucking hate all the lgbt faggotry.
paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/
ahtribune.com/history/1027-homo-sovieticus.html
Fuck the gay lobby

Is what we're going to do all thread? Just make strawmans until we all get bored? I don't hate mentally ill people, I probably have more experience with them than you do (this is where you craft an obvious insult directed towards me). You shouldn't encourage someone's illness. If a schizophrenic told you they're God and can't die would you encourage their delusion and tell them to go run into traffic? I would hope not.


So you're telling me that cutting off your dick is not mutilation? Yes, I know, they're not literally grabbing scissors and snipping it off, it's a nuanced procedure but the idea is still the same no matter how professional the surgery is: You're removing a part of your body because you don't "identify" with it.
I can't attest whether that's true or not, as I don't know. Good for them, I suppose.

This but unironically.

When it comes down to it just doesn't affect you bro. If you don't like trans people then don't talk to them. Issue solved. I'm sorry the media is shoving these issues in your face when really it's really something that should be between a person and their families and doctors but this is capitalism's fault not trans people.

Honestly these treads are always ridiculous. Trans people are 99% working class, same with gay people. Regardless of your opinions on identity politics, you should still support trans and gay people because chances are they're gonna be easier to radicalise than the rest of the population.
"Social Conservatives" are fucking autistic and inherently reactionary.

This analogy is ridiculous. People with gender dysphoria aren't making shit up, they're saying they can't stand living the way they are right now — and in some case sex-reassignment surgery is the only way to remediate the problem. You're not indulging in anyone's "fantasy" any more than when prescribing SSRIs to someone with a severe case of depression.

It's not simply about "not identifying" about a part of your body, it's about being so profoundly uncomfortable with it that you cannot operate normally. There's a reason the suicide rates among people with gender dysphoria is so God damned high.

Fucking lol.
Proof to this claim?
Read here
ahtribune.com/history/1027-homo-sovieticus.html
And here
paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/

Homosexual will invent anything to defend themself, like you just did

...

Idpol is the only thing unifying the left. We must realize that leftism means different things to different people. Some focus on economics more than race, and others see race more than economics. Both are connected. You can move people leftward by pointing out how capitalism perpetuates racist systems or point out sexism that is inherent to capitalism. The crying about idpol really just amounts to leftists who don't like their image smeared by poltards.It's not about idpol, it's about the type of people who go for it. I'm idpol and recognize marginalized groups and their oppression, but I do it no in such a zealous way.

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leftism is a spook. give up leftism and you have made a little step forward

Are you saying the belief in leftism is a spook of the believer or that people see leftism as a spooky thing? The latter I agree with. The left need to be more grounded to earth and just speak ideals and values before putting out labels. The alt right is good on this. They don't call themselves fascists outright, just express their beliefs. The left needs to do the same.

Liberals are the stupidest fucking people ever when it comes to actually attempting to abolish inequalities.
If it doesn't involve making more womyn and minorities into members of the ruling class right here and now it's "continuing racist/misogynist practices".

Idpol is not leftist. It was never leftist. It will never be leftist.

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I've always get conflicting definitions of idpol tbh. Some definitions lump me with idpol while others don't.

Idpol is the reason "marginalized groups" exist at all. Recognizing crimes of idpol is not idpol.

I mean sure, people can be zealous. I don't care about blackpanther or hair styles. I do however recognize that things like slavery, segregation, and more still play a major role materially for the blacks.

Perhaps 99% is an overstatement, but the vast majority. The claim is so obvious that honestly its ridiculous to not understand it. Majority of people are working class, therefore the majority of most minority groups are working class. You'd have to be retarded to not get that.

IMO the biggest threats would be nanobots, bioweapons, internet manipulation (CIA et. al bots / censorship), nuclear weapons, kill gangs, trumped up charges, etc.

Taking on the point, let's recall this passage from Engels' Dialectics of Nature, Notes and Fragments:

And in Marx, the Grundrisse:

This line of Spinoza is explained thusly in the notes:
< ‘Determination is negation’, i.e., given the undifferentiated self-identity of the universal world substance, to attempt to introduce particular determinations is to negate this self-identity.

I think these passages show that an orthodox Marxist reading is that identity, properly speaking, does not exist. This is because the world is always in the process of becoming something else, a fact which is clear when dealing with scientific matters and which also applies to human social life. It's clear that left IDpol is deluded because they are swallowing Western logic in their attempt to get beyond it- the idea of speaking up for Women as such is preposterous, or the idea that we must acknowledge that someone "really is" X gender when in reality no one "is really" any gender.

The conservative clinging to identity, which the left IDpol people are also displaying, has to do with clutch onto symbolic finality as a crutch against the void of meaning in the world. Why are so many men up in arms to defend the idea that they are "really" men? Because at this time for many people these identificatory fantasies are all they have. And in a way any goal-oriented activity, communism included, involves some hallucination of stable concepts which can be applied to a world in flux. The idea behind Marxism was to understand how and why human society changes, and to stake a claim on what the next phase of the structure of human society will be.

I think the clearest way for communists to make clear their position on identity to make clear that communism is not the end- in a way, it's the beginning. Communism is not the end of struggle or competing narratives or personal squabbles or idiosyncrasy- rather, it is merely a word for a set of changes which need to be made in the world- the abolition of private property in the means of production and the constitution of a self-conscious class which will abolish all social classes. This does not mean everyone will be the same, but that what we call class today will not be what we are struggling over.

I think people overlook how cosmetic the body is- eventually we won't even have them, okay? So the whole flipping out over cutting genitals is dumb. Circumcision exists for example, and ritual scarification is a huge deal in human culture historically (those ladies with the "long necks" anyone?). My point is that the integrity of the human body is not an end unto itself. The body is all face (Baudrillard) in that we use all of it to express ourselves. This is another way of saying that any cultural practice can be labelled insane. We have to acknowledge that the body is becoming more and more malleable and this will not change but accelerate.

So yeah I think left IDpol need to stop latching onto their oppressed identities as life preservers to talk about their experience, and right IDpolers need to do the same. The most interesting thing to do is to take a little look beyond good and evil with regard to the "identity" fantasies which are closest to you, to see just what it is that you must come to terms with disappearing.

Homosexual is not and identity, nor they are a minority. How the hedonistic lifestyle of a faggot can be working class? Maybe you are one or know one, i'm not saying that they are all borg. But majority are. Especially transsexuals

Is attraction to the same sex hedonistic? Is sex is inherently hedonistic? Wtf are you even trying to say?

Nobody on the left should deny that racism and more have terrible effects on people even today. What makes idpol, idpol, is that it largely stops there. It legitimizes the tension and racial conflict by first acknowledging that there is a legitimate battle line there. What is not idpol is to say that these things are part of a larger conflict. Racism provides an easy and reliable means of dividing up the working class in multiple ways that the ruling class can exploit. Slavery was used to disadvantage the blacks in the US, but it was done primarily for the sake of economic exploitation rather than simple, pointless racial hatred.

Sodomy is hedonistic

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Mentally ill tranny detected.
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

sage for shit thread

Ye okay Christ-cuck. If sodomy is hedonistic, can men still blow each other? What about handjobs? Is lesbian sex okay cus there's no sodomy involved?
Your beliefs are so reactionary and incomprehensible that arguing against them could be done by a five year old.

I'm not even Christian for fuck sake.
I already posted these two links 3 times, give a read will you?
ahtribune.com/history/1027-homo-sovieticus.html
paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/class-and-the-lgtb-lobby/

There is a strong correlation between homosexuality and lobbies. Also homosexual liberation movements helped to bring down the eastern block and these days are pushed by guys like soros. The first article explains the problems with homosexuality the second the correlation between homosexuality and lobbies

Considering that your source is a 14 year old study that has been disproven, if you look it up, I'm gonna guess you just looked for any study that would back up your pre-existing, reactionary opinion.

debunk it then

i looked it up and i got a mealy mouthed "article" that said "well the surgery didn't CAUSE the increase in suicides" but did not explain what did

this is akin to saying heroin wasn't the cause of an overdose, societal pressures that caused the person to use heroin did

how do i know you have never spoken to a trans being ever in your life? they are the most reactionary people on the planet

I read the first article and still don't see what's wrong with sodomy or being gay, other than "muh duhgenewacy".

That first article has absolutely nothing to say. Did you honestly think that would convince anyone?
The second article is actually interesting, but obviously you didn't actually read it. It claims that homosexual couples have a higher percentage chance of being middle class (I'll ignore that you originally said bourgeois out of courtesy) than straight couples. You didnt realise that it no where in the article claims that the MAJORITY of homosexual couples are non working class. My statement that you took issue with was that the majority of gays (including lesbians and bisexuals) are working class. Neither of your links disproved that.

1) Marx and the USSR weren't omniscient or absolutely right on everything. Homosexuality is a question of biological and psychological sciences that hadn't yet matured at the time. It lies outside the realm of class analysis, like left-handedness or a preference for apples, and they were not informed enough about it. Also early Soviet Russia was quite friendly to homosexuality.

2) I agree that gay marriage is a conservative idea. We must seek to abolish bourgeoisie marriage as an institution, not uphold it but with more penis. No arguement from me here. But I assure you - remove capitalist alienation and reactionary propaganda and you'll see rates of declared homosexuality among working class shoot up. It's an issue of working people being too crushed, alienated and apathetic to care for exploring their sexuality, not of HEROIC PROLETARIANS RESOLUTELY REJECTING URANIAN fun.

Give us 5-hour working days, annihilate religion, make sex ed compulsory and most people will be bisexual.

This is all I want tbh

Religion doesn't even necessarily hate gays though. Only abrahamists do. Also, why do most socialists want to destroy marriage? What's the point of this? It probably comes back to "oh it reduces partners to private property", but what is the point of destroying life-time commitments? That's not romantic at all, and i say this all from a socialist standpoint. Strict monogamy can be extremely fun.

Probably the opposite, tbh

Nah, these people are fucking retarded.

Even religious fundamentalists have less contradictory beliefs than these absolute mouthbreathing retards. Their very existence pushes rational people away from the left more than anything else, and it's an open secret that they are the entire reason that Trump won.

Think of politics like a dota game. Porky is just another guy on the opposing team. SJWs are that guy on your team that constantly runs into the towers, feeds 0-25, flames the chat the entire time, and then finally goes AFK while occasionally dropping in to bitch about how this is all your fault. Replacing Porky with someone else is unlikely to change the outcome of the match, but replacing the SJW feeder very likely would.

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Dont say this often, but literally just read Marx

But i'm currently reading the Conquest of Bread right now and plan on reading Das Kapital soon.

Porky IS the one promoting idpol you knuckle-dragging mongoloid. Also it is telling that you would reduce class struggle to a DotA allegory. Gonna tell us something about orca and humans next?


Bourgeois marriage, user. Read my post and the article more carefully. Nobody's saying anything about abolishing relationships, just the current form of property-based family.


How come? Entering bunker in preparation for your take.

I mean, your right about the crushed, alienated and apathetic part, but that hasn't actually caused people to not care about sexuality. Quite the opposite, its caused people to turn to engaging in short term, brief, on-and-off sexual encounters completely devoid of the risk or commitment of an actual relationship or the event of falling in love. We live in an age of controlled consumerist hedonism. Your idea of WASP-like puritan capitalism died already 40 years ago.

You replied to wrong guy.

You can read the communist manifesto in like half an hour for free online, that explains the marxist perspective on the abolition of bourgeois marriage pretty simply. It's not as crazy as it sounds at first glance.

Sorry thx

Just to clarify, this is simply the bourgeoisie conception of marriage. Marx and Engels were still very much in favor of monogamy and couple based relationships, with Engels affirming in Origin of the Family that monogamy would most likely be dominant in communism given that it would be a purely sex-love based arrangement outside of the confines of bourgeoisie moral decay Yes, he used this term

Just on the basis that the rampant alienation and sexual confusion caused by capitalism would be non-existent and therefore all the people who currently decide on sexuality by identity and association and not actual feeling will actually engage in the relationships they wanted to engage in to begin with, which will in majority be heterosexual. Do you really think a large portion of people fapping to traps do so out of wanting to be bang a guy, or out of the desperation and the fetish of wanting to bang something which looks like a girl but doesn't have the "baggage"? You also have the reference of most communes being unexplainably largely heterosexual.

Wow, you guys upgraded from Warcraft: Orcs vs Humans?

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Oh damn, new Holla Forums converts incoming tbqh.

...

Hedonism is bourgeois.

Hedonism is only afforded by privileged petty-booj narcissists. Mostly inner-city types.

I wouldn't want the vanguard to be made up of scrawny trannies and other whiny fags who are more concerned with selfies than fighting. Fuck middle class people in general.

The point Cockshott was illustrating is that same sex couples produce less SNLT than hetero ones and that saving for retirement is an abstraction. At your old age you rely on the labor of others no matter how much money you save. Gays are going to increase the disparity of wealth by placing more of the social labor burden on hetero couples, especially women.

And even if that were the case, something being bourgeois doesn't mean it's bad. Will you say that novels are bad because they're bourgeois too?


Fuck off homophobe.

His Dota analogy is dumb, but I think Orwell made a good point in The Road to Wigan Pier when he talked about how we should be wary about those we let into socialist parties and movements if their actions drive others out or contaminate it with liberalism.

Considering that your definition of "hedonism" is simply having a lot of sex, I find it dubious that people can't afford this form of hedonism, considering that sex is free for the most part.

I'm a different guy but I conceive hedonism as forgoing work for pleasure. So basically coasting off whatever money your parents gave you and using your studio apartment as some weird orgy grounds for other rich liberal feminist types.

He was trying to call homosexuals hedonists basically off of the stereotype of homosexuals as sexually permiscuous. But this kind of sex is free, so that doesn't mesh with his claim that proles couldn't afford that kind of lifestyle.

No I was that guy who talked of "affording hedonism" but am not the same guy who preceded that post. I don't think sex by itself is hedonistic, I do think sex being your sole focus is hedonistic though.

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Not that guy, but this is a bad definition. It would imply that the husband or wife of a spouse shouldn't take time after work or from work to engage with his significant other or his/her family but instead devote all his time into work no matter the ramifications. The problem with hedonism is in its definition, that pleasure and happiness are the primary or most important intrinsic goods and the aim of human life. A hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure minus the pain and holds that pleasure is the highest "good". You can see how from a socialist and marxist perspective this can be a problem.

femininity is a spook though

I was thinking more of the wealthy 20 somethings who have a penthouse and fuck a different person every week/month. Often engaging in roman-style orgies and having everyone know about it.

You know, an inner city liberal.

Nothing wrong with that.

Bourgeois detected.

With people like you I sympathize with pol-pot. I want all middle class liberals dead.

no
this is stupid internet LARP nonsense
and within the sphere of internet LARP nonsense, SJWs are the better team.


all ideas are made up, that's how ideas are made.
the idea that the left should ally with or include you is ridiculous to me.


stupid.


good, now fuck off back to edgeville.


you don't cut your hair? you hippie faggot. cut your hair. your dad is disappointed in you.


true


ah yes, good old "only richard littlejohn tier prudes can be TRUE working class" school of thought
(that's what marx said - "lol fuck whether you work for a wage if you're a weirdo you're bourgeoisie get a haircut and a normal job you punk ass kid" - das kapital, chapter 3.)


AH YES


that first article actually made me laugh out loud
this is what LARPing looks like. this is actually-existing LARP.
KEYNES WAS GAY
MADE BY CONCOM GANG
yeah but they also hated Thatcher so it's impossible to say if they were good or bad or not
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbians_and_Gays_Support_the_Miners

to be fair we should bully left handed people for resulting in the creation of left handed scissors.


I WOULD PREFER NOT TO.


you mean the people in your head that you're jealous of because you're sexually unfulfilled?

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Read Lenin
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/jan/17.htm
marxists.org/archive/zetkin/1920/lenin/zetkin1.htm
Sex should be based on love and absoluteness, anything else is just masturbation

Nothing wrong with orgies though

Are you retard?


I'm not a middle class liberal, dumb moralist.


I've already read it and I don't agree with his views. What are you gonna do? Put me in a gulag?


This.

Yes, you filthy liberal.

I have no problem with them being "allowed", but I think the conditions which emerge from socialism will result in people not wanting to engage in these things to begin with. All social relations derive from that of the economic.

Gender is a social construct though. Some languages even give gender to objects like chairs.

You're just some fag larper liberal who wants communism so you can swim in the cum of other degenerates. Fuck you.

Bet you're the exact type of inner-city liberal I'm talking about. Fuck the middle class, fuck wealthy cunts like you, fuck students.

Go back to >>>Holla Forums

Not that user, but stop using un-marxist terms like this

what did he mean by this

Gender doesn't exist

Alright fine, petty-booj living off daddies money.

Lol strong ideology bro.

Social constructs and gender by definition exist.

*snorts the dandruff-ideology mix emanating from your overheating noggin*

...

After a long day of rough sex with john I go out to my local protest against tuition fees!!! Make sure to take a couple of selfies then phone my bestie for a threesome later tonight!!! But I don't have enough money for my latest herbalist course so I have to ring daddy!!! I'm going to suck john off while talking to him because I'm a rebellious new-age, sex positive feminist!!!!

I hope our peaceful protests work and the videos of me taking cum to the face can inspire millions of women the world over to not care about slut-shaming!!!!!

t. polyp

Funny thing is I hate Holla Forums for their myopic view of the world, condensing everything down to NIGGERS. Not even race but just NIGGERS and JEWS.

Make a thread criticizing women on Holla Forums: Anonymous women come out of the woodwork to deflect onto jews and blacks

Make a thread criticizing asians on Holla Forums: anonymous asians come out of the woodwork to proclaim their superiority as neighbors to blacks

Make a thread criticizing mexicans: Deflect onto blacks

It's boring and too american-centric.

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It's a pickle. Idpolyps are cancer, but the people most vocal about fighting them are seldom honest actors. What to do, what to do…

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alri richard littlejohn

Hit a nerve did I? You cunt.

would unironically rather be comrades with the strawman you described than with some moralizing vulgarian workerist fag who larps as a conservative coal mine worker from the 30s

I live in a shit poor butt fuck no where town in northern England. Nice projection.

I think your misunderstanding what I'm saying. Gender doesn't actually exist, all your saying when you say "I feel male" is that you feel male in the parameters you've set up for it. Sex exists, and I can show you the difference sexually between a man and a women, but when someone says "I identify as a women/man" there isn't anyway they can acually do so without setting up parameters for what that means. And this is all without actually sexually being a women/man. This boggles my mind as the idea that certain traits are now male/female would mean an "effiminate" man is now a women internally/in denial and all on a set basis of parameters that are made up from people who have never actually been the other sex and so don't actually know what its like to "be" a women/man.

I'm not even a woman, you sad little man

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Nice bourgie elitism.

Was you mother mean to you when you were young, little boy?

Ah, yes, upper middle class trannies are going to lead workers’ revoluton.

Who the fuck ever claimed anything even remotely resembling that, you absolute cretin? Damn, I have more respect for lunatic stormweenies shamelessly shrieking about hanging trannies to lampposts than I have for edgy Holla Forumstards who just want an excuse to hate on trans people but are too cowardly not to cloak it in vaguely Marxist-sounding jargon. Please consider killing yourself ASAP.

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Then why are there trannies in the netherlands?

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