How do I deal with the fact that so many of my former comrades are now having their "haha I was a communist too! So...

How do I deal with the fact that so many of my former comrades are now having their "haha I was a communist too! So embarrassing!" phase?

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Get them to put their hands on the wall.

I don't know what sad place you're from fam but i'm British and while just 3 years ago or so only i and like 3 of my close friends were commies, now everyone i know is radicalising. Maybe its just the climate here in Britain but I am seeing far more of the opposite, with socdems and libertarian, rand-fans coming to their senses.

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Are you in college or college-aged?

If so, get ready. Years will go by and soon it will feel like it's you and a handful again.

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Is that because of lack of actual friends or are you just not open about/bad at making a case for communism?

honestly, I'm kind of scared other leftist will shit on me.

Bit of both actually. I'm a stemfag and the only people I knew who were loudly expressing any sort of political opinion were lolberts and so I used to be. pls no bully. I also live in a post-commie country (Poland) and I feel kind of uneasy talking about stuff that happened before I was born. (quoting Cockshott on food queues in Poland doesn't seem like a bad idea though)

Hitler should have finished the job tbh

to be fair, we also have some unironic nazbols.

I think that's fine tbh.

I don't mind being or feeling alone in my worldview, but it's kind of disheartening when you insert yourself in a milieu that advocates those ideas, you spend countless hours debating politics with people and developing your views together, you meet important friends and even lovers in political settings, and then … idk, a few years go by, you sense a general decrease in the political activities of people around you, and you realize the topic is no longer frequently brought up. Then more time goes by, and now the people you once talked politics for hours now respond with indifference when you bring that stuff up. Then more time goes by, you're around 30, and the transformation is complete: everyone becomes a milquetoast liberal and you start looking like the guy who didn't move on.

It's a weird transformation, predictable in some cases but not others.

Shit fam i'm Polish too! My family are pretty based though, broadly disillusioned and apolitical today but all fondly reminiscing about how things were better in the PRL. But yeah among young people most are vociferous pro-american, anti-russian, anti-communists. Still even though Poland is the most anti-communist former eastern bloc country among the people who lived it, the PRL is still somewhat popular, even though those were the Jaruzelski/martial law years and were objectively shit.

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I try to keep it an open secret tbh. I really cba giving everybody a crash course on the ills of capitalism when most of them are apathetic to politics anyway. I've tried prole pilling friends who seem open to a more equal society. They usually agree with me, but are pessimistic about the practicalities of socialism.

I am not sure if I should say "i rest my case" or "at least theres that".
Are they also hot punks?

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Nazbol traps. Heterosexuals are 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧bourgeoisie🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

fuck this is my type of NazBol

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I mean, it's kind of depressing when even the hipster socdem party is mostly like this.

There's one girl I know from uni who's a left-socdem idpol type, but is sort of into communist aesthetics and memes. Her boyfriend just came home from Cuba. He seems to be more of an ML or something (I don't know him though).

Other than that I have two close friends who are vaguely communist, and my gf who is a commie sympathizing socdem basically. I don't think any of them would've been as far left if it wasn't for my influence on them though.

Uh, just keep being a commie and make a good case for communism whenever the topic comes up (don't be the dickhead trying to make every discussion about politics, that's just annoying). If they've been communists before they should at least be able to see where you're coming from.

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no one who was every a communist stops being a communist

unless you are an illiterate who used to call yourself a communist because when you were 15 you thought rich people have too much money and poor people are too poor.

no one who has actually read and understood the ideology of the proletariat and the perfect sense it makes on all levels can ever "stop being a communist"

claiming that you were once a communist is just a right wing tactic to make communism look infantile

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I've never been happier since I became a socialist.

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Same here, but I'm still pretty sad.

I recently met with a girl off tinder it’s been a few weeks and she’s reading the conquest of bread at the moment (my recommendation) I talk about my world view when work becomes apart of the conversation and it seems to be pretty effective.

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Quite the opposite. The second people will need to support themselves theyll feel the need for safety net that leftist ideologies bring. Its easy to dream about being rich when you live on your parents welfare.

Jaruzelski did nothing wrong, protecting Poland from capitalist jackals was a noble thing to do. Even at a cost of a few, brainwashed by "foreign advisors" from the cia, people that died.

same for poland as for most of the east
the inexperienced kiddos talking shit that their western propaganda feeds them
the parent generation that is overwhelmingly in favor of socialism and filled with regrets
Poland had one of the worst socialisms ever and it still was better than the shit they got handed with capitalism

They were clearly Trots, Leftcoms, or Succdems. If they were your comrades, you should be embarrassed too– become a real communist and leave your childhood behind.

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You know what to do

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Passionately talk about Marxism and class war after a couple drinks one on one with a woman, if that doesn’t get you laid it’s hopeless, honestly. You think women want some boring fucking liberal or some knuckle dragging aut-rightist? Fuck no. They want something radical, something naughty, nothing says, I’m alpha and I don’t give a fuck like, “everything you heard about Mao was a fucking lie, didn’t you know he banned footbinding and forced marriage, nobody has a better record on woman’s rights than Mao in history, these people he killed? Reactionaries, fuck them, if I had to kill Theresa May to axe the tampon tax I’d kill her my self. Martin Shrekli? Should he have gone to jail? No he should have been shot in the back of the head for hiking the price of aids medication”


then get some normal friends, do not fraternize with the enemy.

on the one hand an anarkiddie who is willing to defend Mao is a good thing, on the other hand you're just doing it to get laid…

Identified with the communism movement for 12 years now, although have only been politically active in a real way for about 8.

Was very young when I first came into the movement (13) in late 2006/early 2007. At the time, I remember admiring a ton of comrades who were older than me. Years later, most of my old comrades - the people I looked up to, and learned from dropped out, and I was of the same age as all of the new comrades coming in.

As time went by, they too dropped out, and I kept getting older. I'm in my mid 20's now, and practically every comrade I knew before the age of 20 has dropped out of the movement entirely. I'm surrounded by new, younger faces, and I'm finding that more often than not, I am the "old man" of the group.

In the west, people come in waves like that. I've seen Marxist prodigies come and go, and hardcore die-for-the-revolution types come in and fade out. It is hard for me to get attached to new comrades on a personal level for that reason.

I can't even imagine what it is like for the handful of middle aged/elderly comrades who've been through this process for decades.

If you’re in the UK and serious I’ll link up, sick of half timers

No I’m really not this is just what happens when I get drunk. The point if communism is the only radical ideology and has many powerful advantages to being an adherent of, dropping out is for cowards, wield the power, wield it well

I'll assume you're American. They're probably just brainwashed by media and celebrity culture. Introduce them to manufacturing consent, point out American war crimes, and move further left from there.

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Use it as a reminder of how people are good at acting like they belong and why you should be vigilant about traitors. And that a lot of people genuinely are just bleeding hearts with little to no understanding of capitalism/socialism.

Hang them?

More like using a woman's romantic/sex drive to push socialism.

What film?

We must harness the female libido for socialism.
Lefty pick up artist of the world, unite!

Is this one of your friends?

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Take out some porky with you.

Post nazbolspit

LARPing is ok when she cute tho

Is it radicalization on both sides of the spectrum or mostly leaning toward gommunism?

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I wish

cursed image

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Do you think nazbol cat is into pegging?

She is most definitely into pegging. She is psychotic as hell no doubt.

worse than furshit tbh

ask them why they changed their mind, anyone who can only define their transition from a worldview by "lol i grew up im not a retarded kid anymore" never believed in anything. i have changed many positions over time but i can trace what caused the change; i at least try to identify what aspect of my youth made me believe something even when it isn't flattering.

many people move to worldviews that require them to hate their past selves to maintain their current trajectory, like fat people can only lose weight abusing fatter people. it is a psychological simplicity which is laughable and depressing. if you ask you will see if the whole thing was just a trance by their favorite youtube rhetorician or an actual transition in belief.

What happens to them afterwards, exactly? I'm not involved with the IRL left yet, but I always assumed that dropouts were people drawn in for some kind of social fulfillment without any serious understanding/commitment of the movement. The way you describe it makes it seem that that's not the case. Do they become full-on neoliberals and align themselves with the think-tank/academic "liberal elite", or just drop out of their commitments, maybe read a lefty book every once in a while but can't be assed to do any activism?

Was anti-communist for more than half a decade. I'm a commie now. After all the self critique, and the pursuit of truth…. it led me to communism. These days, no amount of anti communist arguments effect me. I heard them all and know it's full of shit. We need to be honest with ourself. Communism isn't a simple ideology. It's not like free market capitalism where all you need to know is the term voluntary, or like the alt right where you can just learn from a meme about the jews. Communism is complex and takes a lot of reading. I suspect many ex-commies didn't bother to read much and just learned it from hearsay.

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My gripe is that every Communist I meet seems to be a no-theory shithead moralizer. They are obsessive about (often tiny) movements agitating for obscure and empty benefits. For example, there is a """protest""" happening near me right now for this vague, moral bullshit about gun control. The """"communists""""" are apparently not only seriously taking part in this protest, but also splitting it due to differences with the Democrats.
Not only is it aids to be a Communist and argue for guncontrol, but vague "We need to make our policymakers aware" is even worse. It's reformist; it's counterrevolutionary. It's anti-communist for fucks sake.
It makes me feel politically lonely, like Communists are not only a minority, but idle perverts made to mock me. Holla Forums, for all its autism, will always have the one up for this.

Who else here has gone full /crypto/?

If asked about it irl I'll say I used to be a leftist but not anymore, meanwhile I continue holding on to my Critical Theory and post-left books.

I am a spineless asshole.

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God i know this feeling fam. Youre not alone.

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Some conclusions to be drawn:

1:Real communists pretty much don't exist in real life spaces, and can only be found online.

2: The college aged crowd is a net negative since not only are they not real communists and have no interest in being one, but their mere presence maintains the myth that it's a youthful phase to be grown out of.

3:Any real communist movement should vet their members for actually understanding theory and only accept people in their mid 20s and older. If that means all the currently existing groups and orgs die off, then so be it; they're worse than useless anyway.

Hw did you draw the conclusion that all the people in this thread only inhabit the internet?

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>everyone around me are either lolbergs mostly my poorer friends pretending to understand economics or either liberal normies parroting "yeah we need a mix of capitalism and socialism" (read: Scandinavia)
You are my only outlet Holla Forums

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Find a Marxist-Leninist group

they were never communists, they just wanted to be edgy

You're getting a solid agree from me user.

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maybe you should stop hanging out with fucking 13 year olds then. Most socialists active in my area are 35-retirement age

Except he never said that?

Then where are the real communists?

ML's are pretty much the only ones taking the entire "communism" thing seriously. Sorry.

In the fringes. Here in Buenos Aires it's full of half-assed trots and hippies, but there's also a maotist party I visited with a friend some time ago and suprisingly enough most of the people in the building were well past their fifties.
There's just a lot of shilling and disinfo flying around nowadays, bit hard to find someone to at least have a good discussion with.

Congratulate them for growing up

Retirees with too much time on their hands is not desirable either.

99% of people who say this were either socdems or red liberals with no theory.


Ditch the archaic terms and ideologies of Marxism, and "Communism" and start following transhumanism.

Go along with them and stop being a communist. If they stopped it they had a good reason to do it.
Just giving my opinion.

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I don't mind if he likes to wear dresses long as he keeps that trigger discipline.

We don't have to exclude younger people we just have to learn to control them.

No major party, movement, organization or ideology cares about what their respective "youth wings" say, it's only the socialist Left. We let 21 year old dipshits with red hair push people who have been active for decades around.

Entitled boomer detected. Young people SHOULD be pushing around old people provided they're actually bringing in more revolutionary zeal and determination to overthrow capitalism. Problem is the kids have no detectable interest in doing that.

No they shouldn't, a socioeconomic system is not something that falls once you insert enough petty anger into it. Revolutionary zeal and determination without discipline and experience accounts for jack shit, it may even be counter-productive, which is why angry, yelling college students tend to achieve nothing and the fall into liberal cynicism within a few years.

Because of people like you, radical politics has now been reduced to waves of activism making the SAME mistakes that previous generations have, because we keep giving protagonism to those with "revolutionary zeal", which usually means young, immature and naive. Guess what? The next wave of college radicals won't solve shit either, revolutionary praxis is something that is built from the lessons of the previous one, which requires some type of demographical consistency.

If they are wrong on how to go about overthrowing capitalism (because they lack understanding, experience, and so on), their zeal will be detrimental. Idpolyps are a case in point.

I think this thread established very early on that people coming for the idpol aren't communists.


How do you propose to filter these people out without vetting them then?

And besides, plenty of intersectional "marxists" will tirelessly beg to differ.

By growing up

I'm still a Communist, but after 15 years, I'm def in my jaded phase and fucking cringe when I see young comrades rail on about Capitalism and how the Kulaks deserved it to people who don't give a shit and/or think all of us Lefties are just the left wing version of Alex Jones.

Learned after all my years that to turn succdems you actually have to slowly slip in the socialist ideology and make them think it was their own idea or they will think of you as just some weird conspiratard. Most actual succdems that give a shit about politics, openly hold it as a matter of pride that they're "Moderate" and "rational" so you have to use that to your advantage and make the radical seem like normal.

90% of comrades are just fucking retards who do not even know the meaning subtle and think you should just debate Succdems on North Korea or some shit and by their own logic them and they will flip and create a revolution.

Corbyn, Sanders, Chapo Trap House have done more to radicalise people than the entire left in the past 2 years than the entire western left in the past 50. How did they do this? they produced leftist messaging that succdems could also enjoy.

From my experience:
People get jobs, start businesses, try to make money and eventually drop the idea of Socialism because they become liberals and completely give into the rat race.
It also doesn't help that in most western countries, the left is going fucking nowhere. For example, am in Australia, what the fuck am I supposed to do as a leftist? the left here is completely dead and the only notable leftist org are a fucking trot cult.

They were never communist

Polite sage

We are living in times where the liberal ideology pushes harder and harder against the ones who are dissenting. Most organized communists will never have a full, holistic grasp on Marxist theory to the point where they'd know how to defend it, and how to stand their ground against counter arguments, because it requires a fuck ton of your time. It's very likely that these people have been exposed to arguments against Marxism, and had no proper retort at hand.

It's an uphill battle. Liberals and right-wingers can often refer to stuff as "common sense" and other shit, whereas the communist needs five fucking independent sources to prove even the smallest point, and even once you've done that, they will just ignore the argument and move on to another point and the barrage continues. The state and corporate lobbies also literally spend billions on the smartest experts arround just to debunk communistic arguments (muh capitalism helps people out of poverty, muh economic freedom map, etc.). The battle of ideas is real in a sense, only that it isn't a fair playing ground for us. Getting dismembered in a debate, which is not a shame, because you can always be caught off-guard as you'll always be on the defense, can give people with a weaker grasp on theory, and who are maybe also not really talented in succeeding in this type of studies, an identity crisis. "Maybe I've been wrong all the time? Is the world really this shitty, or am I just paranoid?" This feeling, which I'm sure some of us had once in a while, is reinforced by the constant attempts to gaslight us or to bring the debate on a personal level ("Let's get real besides all that theory: Wouldn't you agree that deep inside you your beliefs are misguided expressions of jealousy against people more successful than you?" - t. random asshole I once debated in a stupid students debate club).

It's really fucking hard to hold your ground against that and to stay vigilant. Especially with the flat-out hostility some people display against communists, sometimes even on a physical level.

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It's not that hard

"Do you think a post scarcity economy would be better?"

"[Waffling about what that means, and claims of impossibility, until you get them to concede to the damn obvious] Well, uh, yes?"

"So how do you get there?"

They were never communist, seriously

You are a bit naive when you seriously think that everybody who was an ex- communist was never a real communist and also you are wrong to say that it's a child's play to defend Marxism to other people who have a firm grasp on economic things but aren't socialist.

These right-wing strawman arguments circulate as memes on the Internet and are used by retards like Sargon but that doesn't mean that there are not clever people out there arguing against communism who can catch you off guard if you don't have a solid grasp on what you are talking about.

That's why you begin with getting them to agree that "post scarcity" is better, not "full communism "

then enlist them in a dialectic on how to get there

All these things you mention, however clever are merely ritualized ideological performances for people so they can feel better about themselves

Don't participate just praxis

If their claims of growing out of communism are not simply takfir, then logically they really were never communist in the first place

Nota Bene

This is why you never let the other side speak in an argument about Communism. The Communist has to bring up the points they know how to discuss and insist on them. If you entertain arguments the other side makes you will never get anywhere because there are just too many angles from which one might attack Communism. As a result, it's unreasonable to prepare a measured response to every possible argument against Communism in a short span of time.

So do you think a post-scarcity world would be a better place?

One of the annoying things is even though you are right, Neolibs will always have insitutional evidence on their side.
For example, the idea that Capitalism has lifted 600 million people out of poverty or whatever, while completely ignoring, that capitalism creates that poverty in the first place and there is no rational argument for things like sweat shops outside of Capitalism and that Economics largely just entrenches the actions of the rich and elite as a law of nature.
But us Communists are arguing from a philosophical and sociological standpoint, for god knows what reason, Economics is held up as some fucking hard science instead of lets be honest, a (highly ideological) field of Sociological research.

Even when us Commies are 100% in the right, it's hard to win the debate when liberals have actual manufactured "evidence" from economics departments making them seem like the rational scientific ones.

Keep reading.

hell yeah

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Isn't this basically the same shit advocates for liberal capitalism under feudalism had to go through? I remember that there were a lot of thinkers attacking people like Locke, Smith or Montesquie on the basis that monarchy with the divine right is taking care of people, that it's benevolent, that it's human nature, etc. Today, these thinkers are largely forgotten. Let's hope history will treat anti-communists the same way in two hundred years.

What do you mean, hope?

Of course it will

Easy, you grow up too. They probably are comfy with their earnings and realised crying for gibs gets you no where. If you keep being commie, you will have no friends. Sad.

Important point; young naive rightists make better permanent actual communists with no backsliding than young naive leftists

Suggestion; focus agitation and propapaganda aimed at conversion towards these elements

Nothing because they never had to sacrifice anything for the idea. This was like a teenage music phase for them, they just change the hairstyle and are completely done with it. They don't need to read books or find a new "moderate" worldview that somehow can be built on the same assumptions they built Socialism on, they simply return like nothing ever happened.

this tbh, richard wolf does something similar, he tones down the tankyness/edge so he can be allowed a mainstream career and slips redpills to the succdems while they not looking