Christ-chan

Can someone explain the appeal of christian socialism to me/recommend good christsoc authors to me? I've read some old Victorian socialists and Eugene Debs was socialist as well, but I figured their religion was more a sign of the times than anything else, and they wanted to reclaim Christianity from the capitalists. Otherwise, it just seems sort of like revisionism, and maybe even sectarianism? After all, why not Islamic socialism/Jewish socialism/Hindu socialism? Is it just a meme? Why not be Marxist-Leninist and support freedom of religious conscience?

Other urls found in this thread:

b-ok.org/book/693957/c1fdae
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gareth_Endicott
libgen.pw/item/detail/id/5a1f04913a044650f500171c
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm
img.booru.org/lefty//images/8/5f94a7e3bbcb144406230d247c2cc30b023d26e5.jpg

this has to be bait

Is christian socialism Marxist-Leninist? This is why I asked for authors goddamit. I'm not baiting, the only Christian leftists I've read (like Jacques Ellul/Eugene Debs) weren't MLs.

are there any NSFW images of christ-chan. I require them for research purposes.

Do you mean you genuinely don't support freedom of religious conscience? Or that M-Ls actually do support this?

No, it's not. Any such writings would be classified as utopian socialism by Marx. I know there's one of us on here that identifies as Marxist-Leninist that I assume lives in Russia who's a ☭TANKIE☭ but the record of ML regimes vis-à-vis Christianity hasn't been great.

Pic related.

You're so cruel user

Spooked pile of shit, religion is anti-materialist and feels>reals.

Unironically these people need to open up some science books and take a look at the material world putting aside their faith for a objective look. But can't do that otherwise they burn forever, anyway a true Socialist society would erode religion due to good education of children and peoples material needs being satisfied so the Church can't take advantage of the poor,uneducated,children and vulnerable people to preach their doctrine.

Give me a job that moves me out of my house first then Christ-chan. Maybe then I will think about a gf.

Yeah no shit, it's a good thing to grow your perspective, I read so much that I figured why not venture into the ChristianSoc territory, even if only to better understand it. I'm ML myself

Is there no author (or even better, PDFs) you could drop on me to get woke on your ideology?

It's for your own good.


I promise to implement a full employment policy if I ever get into a position of power in any society.

idk maybe look at the religion of all those people who obtained nobel prizes in physics chem and economics and get back to me.

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I don't have much could you also share what you got? All I have is these four. I can vet for Rauschenbusch being non-heretical but not sure about the other two since it's been so long.

Looks like I'm way over the file limit so I have to post one at a time.

Because some scientists were religious therefore God is real and we all have to follow along with this book which is 100% real and infallible and should base all of our morality on how people in early ad decided we should act.

Also ignore all the other scientists who aren't religious and the evidence we have with everything from Evolution to the creation of the planet from a flaming ball of lava to a water filled rock and the multiple mass extinctions which have happened, (Were the dinosaurs really sinful so god decided to send a big rock at them?). Even the material conditions which gave rose to Christianity can be traced back to Judaism and how these people explained the world around them, if Jesus was actually in Ancient China the scriptures would be vastly different to the ones based on Judaism and the time period of the middle-east which if early Jews were wiped out by the Romans in the earlier conquests or assimilated into Alexanders empire Christianity wouldn't exist.

Your ideology is literally just Christians unable to give up their faith and see the material world since their material conditions were so, (if you were raised in modern Iran you would be a Muslim 100% rather then a Christian since that's your material conditions).

Feels >>>Reals. Incompatible with Dialectical materialism

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Agoihweoghweg this is over the file limit. I'll link it instead:
b-ok.org/book/693957/c1fdae

I was merely pointing out that for many intelligent scientists, science and Christianity do not conflict, so they see no problem with believing in, say, dinosaurs and the good book at the same time. No need to get all asspained but I suppose that's a 24/7 duty for atheists. And there are Christians living even under the most oppressive conditions imaginable i.e. in modern Iran, North Korea, wherever else you want to pull out of your hat. Your remaining arguments are merely what-if scenarios that never happened and so can be dismissed.

Thanks so much! All I've really seen is Eugene Deb's section on Christianity in Labor and Freedom and Jacques Ellul, which I don't have in PDF form, but he's a christian anarchist also.

Why is it bait to want to know more about other people's beliefs and their sources on a board dedicated to those beliefs?

Just as I thought, spooked bullshit about Christianity being the true and real religion (Also your very specific type of Catholicism/Religion is the correct one of course) And a complete disregard to how the material conditions shaped the Bible since hundreds of years earlier Alexander could of assimilated the Jews and Jesus wouldn't of ever existed.

Unless you wanna tell me Jesus had very infallible 100% non debatable moral teachings which are entirely correct since that's what the "real morality" is (Which just so happened to coincide with a lot of his surrounding areas beliefs) and no matter what the change in conditions even if God Choose Ancient China or Mesa-America for Jesus to be born into his morality and understanding of the world would remain exactly the same as it did in the Middle-east then you're religion and beliefs are fallible and subject to material conditions proving them entirely wrong. Or you can say yes to that and we'll let the lurkers believe what they want.

Except Alexander didn't.


Except He didn't.

This is retarded speculation that proves nothing. OH what if Marx was born in fucking Iran would he have been able to come up with communism??? BTFO!!!

Not that guy, but I'll try to name a few or quasi-few Still banned so no pdf's unfortunately
- Baidou writes in his own way secularly on the subject on universalism in regard to Paul and early christianity.
- Zizek has some interesting secular insights into how the methods of the early christians can be utilized and on christian theology
- Terry Eagleton is an Irish CathCom who has written a defense of Marx titled "Why Marx was Right" and offers a somewhat materialist look at the bible. He has also been a critic of postmodernism and the New Athiest movement.
- James Connolly wrote on the topic of religion multiple times and addressed concerns regarding the percieved conflict of catholicism and socialism. In his opinion the church is as subject to historical process and materialism as any other human delvelopment and will conform to socialism as it has to every other system.
- Liberation Theology for obvious reasons
You also have various other workers movements like the Catholic Workers and their split the CRA, armed groups like the ELN, and commune types like the Hutterites and the reformation era Diggers. There's more I'm probably not mentioning, but the other christcoms can hopefully take care of that.

You also have this guy for memes en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Gareth_Endicott

It proves your religion is subject to material conditions, since how Jesus grew up shaped his outlook on life. That's unless God specifically shaped 100% of everything that happened around and too Jesus to make him 100% correct which kind of throws the whole free will thing.
Marxism isn't a religion nor was Marx 100% correct on things nor did he say exactly how your morality should be. Even he didn't say he was going to be correct on everything. Jesus says this is how you act and if you don't act this way you are going to be subject to literally the worst pain for all of eternity.

Your entire outlook is feels>reals. We have ample evidence which blows religion out of the water and yet your faith blinds you

Are you not irreligious because you see Christianity as more scientifically plausible?
Because it pleases you to pray and you want to share that?
Because you've read the bible so much it's ingrained in your mind and your unable to separate fact from fiction like a Neo Nazi is with race?

Jesus IS God. By virtue of him being God he is automatically 100% correct. This is elementary, you seem to believe that Jesus was just some random dude God chose for a mission, he was not shaped or molded by the material conditions around him, otherwise he would have never, for example, healed on a Sabbath or driven the merchants out of the temple or gotten himself fucking crucified.

Thanks for this. Also, I had forgotten about Connolly, dude is an OG. I'm having trouble finding a PDF of Alain Badiou tho, if you could point me in the right direction it'd be greatly appreciated

Direct page scan, all I've got for now unfortunatly. libgen.pw/item/detail/id/5a1f04913a044650f500171c

Thanks a lot!

You're arguing in poor faith about a subject you have shown to have not even the most basic knowledge about. After all everyone who has any knowledge on Christianity knows that 1=3=1. Marx is long dead and so are the material conditions in which he lived, the Church is no longer the opium for the proles but if you want to LARP go ahead. If you want to merely rant about things we don't know about but have a prejudice against then can I state how much I hate marine biologists because they think they know more than me about Manatees

Strawman, you know nothing about me or my education level on the topic and this has no bearing on Religion being feels>reals. Unless you can prove Religion and God as real then your feels about Jesus being 100% always right no matter what because he said so are WRONG and you would be pushing for your specific type of feels to override the very real society's we live in. Anti-materialistic at it's very base
Doesn't mean it's not built upon anti-materialism.
Stawmanning again, I know Christianity very well I was educated in it though several private schools and considered myself religious for a long time. The idiotic idea that the Bible is 100% right because God says so and you know God is right because the Bible says so is insane and Circular reasoning to the absolute maximum.
Well maybe if people were pushing for these marine biologists to run society and for rituals conducted around the Manatees to guide our society morally and for them to be 100% correct no matter what then maybe people would dislike Marine biologists. Especially with lots of evidence proving Manatees aren't physic beings .

There's no such thing as jewish socialism, read "on the jewish question"

Yes there are but please don't lewd my wife.

feels=reals in the minds of spooked brainlets though. if brainlets are going to be spooked, should it be a cute spook?

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No, that's what people call an observation. I observed the fact that you talking about Jesus as if he wasn't God. Thus I deduced that you didn't know about the trinity ergo not very educated on the topic.
Good job getting kicked out of those private schools, did you keep eating glue?That's strawmanning But anyway you've said you considered yourself religious, may I ask which? But now onto the Bible, it's not 100% right no non-prod Christian will disagree with this as the Bible was wrote by men thus must be flawed like men. You must be thinking of Muslims because that was wrote by Allah and thus is perfect. Now the OT was mostly excluded due to the new covenant with God after the death of Christ so you shouldn't take it as gospel ;^)
Oi, don't be trying to rationalise my anger at marine biologists. They're cunts and they can fuck off with their scuba gear. But your actual point used to stand back when the Church had power within governments, tell me what was the last law the Vatican disrupted, the last time the Patriarch of Constantinople was listened to by the people of his country? Back during Marx's time the church held this powers and thus state atheism was a way to take that power for the workers, however as I said Marx is dead and so are the material conditions in which he wrote.

Literally only true in Western Europe.

Maybe I don't believe in God so I'm less likely to sprout bullshit about the Holy Trinity? Perhaps I'm calling Jesus not a god because he's not and by not referring to him I am submitting myself to Christian doctrine even if he is just a Man? Perhaps after all those years of hearing about the trinity of god I just don't give a shit and one sentence I'll call Jesus god and in others refer to him as Human. It's partly insulting you would think I wouldn't know something as basic as the holy Trinity.
Good job getting kicked out of all those Science and History classes, did you ignore basic evolutionary science and autistic shit like a giant flood covering the Earth. Just watch out for the Bishops they tend to like a bit of rape, maybe you've got Stockholm syndrome from being fiddled one too many times in the confession booths. Huur I can strawman 2
Catholic Babtised,Confimation and first Communion though and though
Yeah so that means it's obviously fallible in certain interpretations and verses. Yet you wish to base your entire moral system on a proven fallible text, even so how do you know the entirety of the Bible wasn't just written by some Middle-east people who thought of how a society should run? THAT'S RIGHT FAITH, BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PROVE IT YOU JUST HAVE TO GO ALONG WITH BELIEVING WHATEVER WAS WRITTEN DOWN IS GODS WORDS AND NOT SOME GUY WITH HIS CULT the entire religion is based on Faith since you have to believe even with lack of evidence proving so. FEELS>>>REALS, unless you can prove that part of religion then your entire "Christian Communism" is built upon a false step of putting feelings about how nice prayer and mediation feel over objective reality. AKA NO GODS.
Nothing to do with the original argument, now you're just trying to rationalize the Church "Look their not as cunty nowadays" when the entire thing is built upon putting faith and belief over rational thought. Creationism is what happens when you try to Faith and Evidence together

Slow-down there, that's some potent ideology you have
Really though, please don't use this line of reasoning

Normally when referring to belief systems you should strive for a balanced and neutral standing point so we don't have to spend the next six hours explaining the difference between a hadith and the Quran or getting an angry reply. If you use the wrong terminology you look kinda stupid if you're flipflopping, stay insulting or stay neutral.
Really enjoyed history actually, though classics is more fun. Oh and evolution is perfectly accepted by the Church. And it's parish priests I have to look out for, the grabby paddys
Hahaha, you've not read the Bible! You're were a Catholic!
Again, the Bible isn't the Quran. The Bible is the OT, the story on the life of Jesus, and various theological letters exchanged between the church fathers. The Quran is Allah's words given to Moham through an Angel.
I don't believe I've ever read any legal, governmental, or democratic frameworks set out in the bible on how to structure and run society. I believe the term "Render under Caesar" would be best way to sum that bit up. Now if I remember correctly following Christ's example would be to embrace a hair shirt version of socialism. I mean do good deeds, help the needy, disavow seeking only profits, and everyone being equal in the eyes of God. Even if everything were fake and there is nothing after this life, or maybe the Jews had it right or the Hindus, I don't know. But in the end I'm left wing so espousing socialism is kind of the point. You don't pray to God for things, you pray to give yourself strength to get those things.
It's the exact same argument since the beginning in this bit. The historic material conditions in Marx's time are far gone so parroting dogma instead of understanding the word of it, I was merely explaining that there is no more power to take except their voice. In the end I do believe a good 99% of Catholics want a secularized state in which they are still free to worship and aren't discriminated for our faith.

Lol but have you considered that I am God? Jesus was a joke I made up like a million years ago, stop being spooked fag. You're welcom, and if you disagree with me you are uneducated, because I am literally god and thusly can't be wrong. Disagree with that? Too bad I'm literally God so I'm right lmao. :DDD

Really?

implying i really give a shit, it's a fucking meme imageboard for communists, Anyway this terminology shit only started cause you went and strawmanned me when it was clear what I meant, but you just wanted to nitpick some terminology and call me names i didn't really give a shit about.
Only after being btfo by science so much they had to change, all the other stuff like Jesus rising from the dead and all of Jesus miracles are still believed, and they have even less evidence then creationism autism.
DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD? If yes you're a anti-materialist and you're simply believing this on faith with ZERO EVIDENCE at all. Making you a spooked fucking retard on the level of Nazi's and their "Scientific" beliefs and their vast "evidence".
If no then why not all the other bullshit
It's the recorded word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ from people who wrote down or passed down to people who could write (lol Chinese whispers much) and the basis of all your morality and how you plan to run a lot of your idea society.
Nope my argument was always religion is anti-materialist and for the vast majority of it relies on faith and disregarding evidence against it, it's when faced with outstanding evidence that the church will submit ie evolution.
I never mentioned marx in the original argument you're the one who started bringing in opium of the masses stuff. I'm simply stating religion is anti-Dialectical materialism with it's refusal of 99% of scientific evidence and it's clinging to it's traditions since it's built on faith and not evidence. If the Religion was built on evidence the Religion wouldn't exist.

He didn't crucify himself. He was betrayed by Judas Iscariot. The Romans wanted to punish him under civil law, and the Jews wanted him under the ecclesiastical law.

Unless you can prove your religion beyond a reasonable doubt and unless you don't have to suspend your suspension of disbelief and drop all evidence (Since there's none) to believe in these miracles ie literally coming back from the dead. All because the book told you to blindly believe in it since that's faith you're a fucking spooked feels>reals faggot and deserve everything any Communist did to any religious person ever.

Shit man all I want is not to get fucking shitted on because I believe in a sky beardy is that so much to ask? The Pope had his fun and now just sits down and fucks about with doctrine, we've got no more power so stop burning our churches. I'm not even a Christcom, I'm a statesyn.

Your walls of text say other wise.

fair enough m8. I just want mandatory scientific education for children and no private religious schooling or converting/trying to push people closer to religion that includes baptism etc people until their 18 or people who have been abused or are mentally vulnerable. And then if your still religious you can't run for government or positions of power.

Sure I'll say that's pretty damm anti-religious and a bit restricting on civil rights but i don't wanna gulag you or tear down churches since they have lots of history. After all of that if some people want to be a left wing religious I don't really care I just want people to have a 10/10 understanding on science before being exposed to Religion. Least we'll fight fashies and muh superior evolution hwite race together.

Obviously

for

I mean shit mate that's what we call state atheism. So just because my belief that there is a higher being who wants me to strive towards socialism I shouldn't be allowed even basic rights. And I'm the feels over reals guy?

Tell that to American megachurches and the religious right or literally anyone in the world not living in Western Europe.

The audience of American telebaptists will oppose the revolution. Russian neo-black hundreds and the Orthodox Church will oppose the revolution. Reactionary "christian democrats" in Eastern Europe will oppose the revolution.

Religion is just as much of an opium for the people as it always has been. Churches are bourgeoisie property and neoreactionary hives and should be burnt down. Some christcom larpers on a javanese shadow theater forum and obscure liberation theology groups do not change the fact.

Nope, they can stay
Restrict it's "recruiting" potential but otherwise no, a legal adult can believe whatever they want
Yep
Yeah basically only on the topic of religion, since that's how religion is mostly spread and you're basically teaching a Child who hasn't fully developed their brain and critical thinking skills these things. If your religion relies on children and abused people being converts then your religion is pretty shit tbh. Literally relying on minecraft children/women who have been abused and alcoholics to pass on your beliefs since no one else would believe them once they get exposed to a education first is shady as fuck, like Scientology tier

Comrade Jesus, the original antifa.

I'm not going to defend Prods I don't know enough about them to not view those things as corrupting the faith for profit whilst not taking on the hardships of proper priesthood.
Well I just read: Prods, anti-communists, and capitalists. I think we were already sure that those two were going to be against us.


They can stay? Under church control?
And are you going to be putting in specific anti-Christian propaganda in those schools?
So I'll be a prole who has zero room for advancement past the basic level, that just sounds like working at McDonalds but with more red.
Well done you just made a law which will be used as a way to "vanish" people, no one can prove you didn't do it so any religious person with a child can be locked up at anytime.
Well those are the four types of people in Ireland, the fuck else are we supposed to cater to? But I do think that for all of these churches to have all of this power and wealth I think it takes a few more average working people to support. I must ask what region are you from for this animosity to come out?

Yep
Maybe but all religions as well, maybe not though I might just want schools to teach a good grasp on science.
Sorry fam but lots of religious people would put their religion over fellow Communists and would gladly link up with fascists or far right reactionaries for a greater percent of the population being saved from hell, since you know I'm sure lots of Catholics would rather 100% catholic population and socdem then 25% Catholic and Socialism
Yeah it's a tough one but I'll rather children get a secular education then brainwashed like Scientology parents do.
Maybe not mentally vulnerable people who fall easy to this type of stuff, Like i said if your religion relies on children and troubled people for recruits your basically just Scientology but trying to be nice.
Nothing special just Straya

See this shit right, theyre already trying tell us what to do, by their morals. While at the same time trying to hijack our movement from the backdoor.

Fuck you cunt, ill watch as much porn as i want.

And precisely which religious groups that leaves, that the revolution should ally with or leave be?

Maybe there exist obscure sects that are sympathetic to the working class struggle and do not seek profits, but again that doesn't change the fact that big organized religion is bourgeois and reactionary.

Your post basically boils down to "my real infallible brand of christianity has never been tried".

Well shit Fouché calm your horses we've tried this once.
Holy shit mate, you do know how much Christians hate other Christians right? I'd bet half my labour vouchers that if the Prods joined the far right then Catholics would be some of the most fervent communists.
Well shit mate turns out that most of the higher ups of the Supreme Soviet were covert Christians teaching their children religion. You now have a reformist chairman with ultimate power, down goes the Soviet into a Yeltsin fuckup. Atleast the chairman was an atheist.
Yeah didn't mean for you to take that seriously
Oh fuck off Thong Tom


Well I wasn't going to defend the American Protestant churches because I know shit all about them and from a laymen they look like a bunch of uneducated people being deemed a minister of the state and then raking in cash. And matie my brand have done plenty of awful things throughout history, why would I deny that in the slightest?

Just read Lenin to get rid of christian communism meme.

Bump for CHRISTCOM GANG

embarrassing

Where does Lenin talk about religion?

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm

Too bad none of this happened. Lenin was a great liar I'll give him that.

is your problem with porn in specific? or do you just think that addiction=bad?
If your problem is with porn, is it because of the way some workers are treated and the conditions that lead someone to start working in such an humiliating industry, or is it cuz jesus?

Atheism is stupid.

Has anyone got that "Christcoms: defending socialism vs. defending the bible" pic?

img.booru.org/lefty//images/8/5f94a7e3bbcb144406230d247c2cc30b023d26e5.jpg
Can't be bothered to edit and upload it. Do it yourself.

Good enough, thanks user.

You can think that porn is addictive, is bad due to exploitation and degradation of women, and is sinful because Jesus warned against lust all at the same time. None of the ideas are contradictory.