The topic comes up enough, so I figured I'd try to straighten things out for myself, and others hopefully in the process.
What essentially is the leftist - or your own - justification for not voting? Otherwise, what is the reason you promote the act of voting? While I do not vote, the main charge I've seen against my habit has been the claim that local elections have an impact on real, material affairs, which may be beneficial to fostering class consciousness or some other aim. My hometown a few years back voted against a fracking proposition that would have cleared acres of historic wilderness and damaged waterways - a vote the benefits of which are readily apparent. I choose not to vote for a variety of reasons. It is an alienating experience, putting value on something outside of ourselves/our own power. But Marx and other people have already said enough about how Democracy isn't desirable as an end, societal goal.
Reads are appreciated, as I dont have any pdfs on this topic
STOP, COMRADE!!! You are about to post in a thread about ELECTORAL TACTICS, but you PROBABLY HAVEN'T READ LENIN! Please refer to this book for a general outline of the Marxist approach to electoral politics: marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/index.htm
Oliver Hall
No links but… Idk how 2016 did not convince everyone, whom must be in a deep, deep slumber. Bernie was caucused out in the primary, and then the person with less votes still won. What else do you need to know? In such a situation, an election is very clearly only a farce to maintain the illusion of there being a Democracy. By being shunted into the voting progress, people will miss the power that they really have. For displaying power, One riot, One sabotage, One strike, or One molotov > 10,000 votes.
Alexander Gutierrez
"Democracy is the road to socialism" - Marx
Nathaniel Smith
"workers’ candidates are nominated everywhere in opposition to bourgeois-democratic candidates. As far as possible they should be League members and their election should be pursued by all possible means. Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled. The progress which the proletarian party will make by operating independently in this way is infinitely more important than the disadvantages resulting from the presence of a few reactionaries in the representative body. " marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm
Josiah Gomez
nothing less to be expected of your kind
Jonathan Nelson
it's fire i toss, you're stuck in feces (see: wall of text from 2 centuries ago that no1 cares about) it's an insurrection, not revolution. revolution is the same thing, again. insurrection is something new. voting is 'revolutionary'. destroying the infrastructure that capitalism relies on is insurrectionary.
A bullshit claim, I'd say. Class consciousness isn't on the ballot - I'm running for congress as we speak, preparing for another day of racing through bureaucratic bullshit to hopefully get official recognition as a write-in so I can do more than raise hell in the lead up. On the other hand, with a spare 5 thousand dollars and a decent lawyer on retainer, I could be on the ballot without even going in to personally file anything. Otherwise, if I wanted ballot access for the same position without all that money, I'd need >20,000 signatures by now and paperwork proving I can't pay.
They're well-guarded against class consciousness, and you're unlikely to see it put to a vote.
But the some other aim is valid. Within bourgeois-democracy, there are plenty of opportunities for politicians to fuck up your lives even harder, and basically fuck everything up extremely hard. Sometimes it's put up to a vote. If you live in a society where it's put to a vote, my belief is that it makes perfect sense to vote against getting raped extra hard. Losing rights and resources is not beneficial.
Mason Rivera
More on that first tirade -
Up 'til tonight, I had only found information (that was still online) for ballot candidates, and assumed I would just try to file in person and if I didn't have the funds, fuck 'em I'd run write-in. There weren't specifications about that on the official sites.
But another site explained the write-in rules for my state, and I've since found some of the forms I need. Basically, I file a notice with the secretary of state's office. Then I send a notice about it to a newspaper. Then after they've published (????!) it, I send a scan of the published notice in the newspaper to the secretary of state along with an affidavit confirming that it's been published. Not hard, in theory, but a bit odd and (I assume?) potentially expensive. Will let you know how it goes.
William Peterson
Note - I'd heard before, but confirmed this during this period - if I don't do all this, they can just ignore any write-ins for me and lump them into a big anonymous "other" category. I could theoretically win the majority, and it would only make the "other" category a larger pool than that of the candidates on the ballot, one of whom would win because the public would not be able to definitively discern what percentage of the "other" votes went to who.
Mason Jones
ITT: people citing Lenin or Marx favoring participation in bourgeois elections under certain conditions (i.e. heightened contradictions and a strong workers' movement) and for certain purposes (as a means of propaganda and counting numbers - NEVER as a means to enact socialist policy, as that's impossible given that the State is and instrument for the oppression of a class by another), all to justify their reformist shit.
To add to . also read State and the Revolution.
Adam Mitchell
This, it happens all too often here, blatant illiterates taking Marx and Lenin WILDLY out of context maliciously or just through sheer stupidity. It's literally Facebook disinfo meme-tier stuff.
Good thing you'll fail you stupid fuck. Hope everyone ignores you.
Jason Sullivan
And I hope the piss splashes all over your legs next time you use a urinal.
Lmao maybe that will be the last straw that turns you into a revolutionary. As long as things get worse, they're guaranteed to get better! Just stay indoors talkin' 'bout Lenin in your pissy jeans on a leftist board and eventually stateless workers' paradise.
Luke Jenkins
Wow we got a real political visionary here. Guess your congress run isn't just a masturbatory time-sink after all.
Juan Rivera
as opposed to the revolutionary praxis of sniping at people on Holla Forums
Christian Phillips
around the rose, hold your nose.
Luke Allen
The fundamental changes I want to see do not have a political solution. The secondary changes that do have a political solution are not addressed by either Left or Right ideologies. The only time I might vote is if a major issue is on the table that will slightly postpone the decline and buy us a bit more time.
Chase Mitchell
this
observe the reformist's confusion
Ethan Robinson
LARPING is so fun
((We're going to pretend Trump is the Romanov family and we're the Bolsheviks))
Except… Except… Let's not spend time smearing Trump and Putin like the Bolsheviks smeared the Romanovs and Rasputin. (Only the CIA do that)
We'll get all the hipsters to get assualt rifles then we'll take out the National Guard in the Battle le Detroit.
Fucking ignorant voters HA you stupid le reformers
When Marx said "Democracy is the road to Socialism." Marx meant revolution is the only way to Socialism you stupid reformers. Don't you know the Illuminatus picked Trump to be President.
Hey stop smearing Trump. Bolsheviks wouldn't do that!
Okay let's seize the nukes and start violent revolution now! We're gonna take out the marines 2nd. I got 50 million communist soldiers already, and I didn't even smear Republicans you stupid reactionary.
Jaxson Davis
Hi I'm controlled opposition too.
So far my technique is to tell people that we're like the Bolsheviks
HAHA but what I do after that is tell people they sound like #shareblue when they try to smear Trump and Republicans.
It's brilliant, because the original Bolsheviks smeared Rasputin and the Romanovs in order to build support.. but these lefty saps I preach to become basically impotent. They end up building support for Trump and economic libertarians by feeding redneck's confirmation bias about how Trump is just a victim of the media. (The original Bolsheviks seized on all bad coverage of the Romanovs)
The best part is I tell them not to vote, because we're going to start a revolution even though the techniques I give them to do that help boost military support for Trump.
Then just in case a revolution becomes remotely possible the military will choose to fight for Trump, and pre-emptively gas these gullible hipster lefties.
I do this all day.
1.) Call civically minded socialists naive reformers 2.) Defend Trump and say only #shareblue shills smear him 3.) Tell people the revolution is around the corner 4.) Tell people voting for Socialists is stupid, because of course Trump was picked by porky. They hated Hillary more than Trump teehee.
CONTROLLED OPPOSITION POWER!!!
Let's make sure that Trump can fulfill our dreams of a fascist economic libertarian paradise. We just need to infiltrate more and more lefty groups with this shtick.
Aaron Long
There is no reason not to vote for a communist party if it's on the ballot. Elections is just on of many ways a vanguard could seize power, is is maximum retardation to engage in all sorts of building of dual power but for some weird reason singling out elections as this evil behemoth that communists should boycott. The most autistic thing is that just a stance is not supported with actual arguments but philosophical ramblings about reproducing the system, usually with quotes from Bordiga and Debord.
There are instances when you shouldn't vote, dependent on the electoral system. In France for example, two candidates reach some sort of final round, and if the choice is between Macron and Le Pen you should abstain. In this situation, the decision over what to vote should is the dichotomy of self-interest and accelerationism, what candidate you think will engage in policies raising your personal quality of life, and what candidate is more likely to crash the system. Meh, it's better to abstain.
When it comes to going into poltics yourself, yeah, I highly encourage it. Even if you don't achieve anything, get some communist talking points out there. I can't fathom that people would discourage fellow communists from running for offices, especially since the building of dual power is not exclusionary to that. You can still build dual power and be in politics, duh.
Parker Jackson
Also, people who use the wirings of Marx, Ubisoft Marx, Lenin or Bordiga as some sort of prescriptive dogma as to how to behave in a specific situation are also retarded. Every situation is a historical novelty, and needs to be reassessed each time.
Dominic Price
This is on point. I agree with this.
Colton Price
To be fair, I was confused. Some of the info I provided about the process was inaccurate, and I'm probably going to have to run a completely symbolic campaign after all. The filing fees and alternative of a pauper's affidavit apply to all candidates, and the write-in process is in addition to that - which makes little sense, if I've already filed and paid the same fees.
Clearing it up tomorrow.
To clarify, I am confused. But the point isn't really reform, more campaigning on things that nobody else is and playing to win. If I somehow do, that's just a bonus.
Caleb Jones
If I don't meet whatever arbitrary criteria is set, I'll just keep going until someone's forced to publicly point this out for fear of "wasted votes" being detracted from their DNC/GOP candidate in an election which could be close.
Blake Reed
i dont vote because of first past the post
and scarborough southwest has shit options
Nolan Smith
Not saying it's a totally bad idea if it's a real communist party, but there are some obvious reasons to consider abstaining anyway:
Dylan Martin
But the prescription of Marx and Lenin IS to assess the situation and adapt accordingly.
if there is a 0% chance of impacting the outcome, it is quite literally not worth your time to vote
Jonathan Miller
It is, your time is not that valuable.
Alexander Fisher
Reported for liberalism. Have fun living your life by the rules that gave us MAD and an autist trying (and succeeding tbh) to show that antinatalism is the end result of hedonistic utilitarianism.
Game theorists on fucking suicide watch I don't vote because I'm American and 1) Americans don't vote, and 2) there's no one worth voting for.
John Perry
...
Jayden Diaz
Update: Apparently no fee, no petition. Just printed notice.
Jace Allen
fucking die for taking an innocent portrait of jesus and inserting your shitty racial prejudices into it you faggot
