Where does leftypol stand on trans activism...

Where does leftypol stand on trans activism? I personally support trans rights but trans activists seem to take things a bit far(i.e. demanding access to the spaces of cis women and dismissing their concerns). I've noticed that they tend to go to events and make issues unrelated to trans issues about transwomen. Trans activists seem to embody the 'crazy leftist protestor' stereotype more than any other leftist group.

youtu.be/3Wc6-HikFz4

youtube.com/watch?v=tW4X_IYDsJc

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard's_transsexualism_typology
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

Most of us think its fine for people to be trans.

Just some ☭TANKIE☭s who dont like em.

sage for idpol

annoying af

they are workers too

they need to learn to put class first, not themselves

Trans women are individuals like anyone else and are different. People like to make trans people some kind of Other and act like there's a stereotypical "trans person" but there isn't. Everyone is different, no one has the same fantasies or fears. There are plenty cringy trans people, I don't like plenty of trans people, but I'm trans myself and I've met so many lovely trans girls who weren't ill, they just wanted to express themselves and some of them never got to do that… fortunately I did
=) but I'm lucky

no such thing as idpol, because the Lacanian imaginary is something everyone engages with and everyone has an ego, everyone sees others as a reflection of themselves and wants to project and be seen in a certain ways

Leftypol is TERF, hates trans people and want to put them in gulags.

They have it rough, but about 90% of the trannies I've met have been insufferably annoying autists, so I'm conflicted

I feel uneasy about MTF and FTM, I like genderqueer much more. I think trans should be used to destabilize the categories of man and woman instead of reinforcing them by people saying that they feel they are really one instead of the other. Like a lot of "marginal" groups' activism, the struggle reifies the center and takes on normative assumptions about "normal" people instead of challenging the norm.

nothing wrong with feeling uncomfortable in the gender you're born with and wanting to change, and modern science backs the idea up too.
But I do find lots of trans "activists" are incredibly dogmatic and will fight violently for a cause that's ultimately only a benefit to themselves and other trans people. Many will describe themselves as some form of communist (almost always Ancom or MLM), but instead of advocating for worker rights and power, which from a Marxist perspective would naturally stop oppression of other forms, they'll just aggresively campaign for trans rights, usually by lashing out at dumb fucks who make attack helicopter jokes. if they read some books and directed their efforts towards the communist ideals they claim to champion then I feel like they'd get much more done.
on a personal level (save for people I know online) I only know my FtM cousin, when he's a bit older it would be interesting to hear a political perspective from him

good responses

Why do leftists go into coalition with degenerates/mentally/race identitarian/assholes?

Is it because their labor could be used in a marxist society?

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What does a capitalist system gain from "oppressing" these groups? Capitalists are usually trying to find ways to extract money from them through labor or buying power.

These groups are oppressed because they are not conducive to a functioning society and most of them would not be productive in a marxist society either.

Do you think a negro who is on welfare now would be a hard worker under a marxist society? Honest question

Any and all trans movements are 100% lib, if they insist on being Marxist it’s a farce.
Preferably, in a fully realized communist society, there will be so little difference between man and woman that gender dysphoria simply wont exist.
Currently, this isn’t attainable, but until it will be, we have to treat them like people and encourage them to become valued members of society.
“REMEMBER MY PRONOUNS” shit is retarded idpol, however.

I always support a group of people who are marginalized. I don't have to fully understand their position to think they should not be getting shat on. Transgenderism (is there a correct word for it?) is an interesting subject though because it provokes important questions for us to discuss as a society.

If by "spaces of cis women" you mean "bathrooms" then I'm against segregated facilities, period. This includes gender segregation. Much of the rhetoric around muh bathrooms is virtually unchanged from the arguments of segregationists back when they had separate facilities for "coloreds." In other words, people tend to see men (with respect to women) as niggers (with respect to whites). My criticism for trans activists on this issue is that people who freak out over the bathrooms is that it's not "transmisogyny." The people who don't want trans women in the bathroom don't see these people as women in male bodies or even just some category outside male/female. They see them as deg*nerate men, which is synonymous with sexual predator for most people.

They want to get more attention on their issues, so they target people who already demonstrate social consciousness. Also, (the intersectionality meme aside) there are lots of ways that issues affect people of different backgrounds and discussing how an issue affects different people differently is a normal part of activism.

They are oppressed because they are not conducive to the lingering dominant religions' view of a functioning society. Christianity and later Islam had to actively suppress native cultures' different takes on gender because they fucked with the creation myth and the social plan of maximum population growth. It's an emperor has no clothes scenario. If some people are seen deviating from prescribed gender roles, then other people who are also not happy with those gender roles will follow suit. You have to shame people and sometimes get violent in order to keep people form expressing the natural range of human sexuality.

They aren't real women.

That's not what OP asked though. Only reactionary idiots wouldn't support trans rights at all, but I can see how some trans activism takes it too far.

Allow me to make a somewhat stupid reflection about the whole bathroom controversy: Am I the only one who finds it weird that trans people (who haven't had their sex change yet) even WANT to go into the bathroom stall of the gender they identify with? Like, suppose you suddenly looked completely like a woman and everybody took you for one. Then wouldn't you go into the women's bathroom just because people would give you weird looks if you went into the men's bathroom? Surely I can't fully understand the perspective of a transgender person, but it just seems so weird to me that it would make you more uncomfortable to be in the bathroom of the gender you don't identify with, than to know everybody is probably looking at you in a weird way.

a lot of it is stupid.

this is your brain on idpol

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Well, ideally we should be connecting with cis women on a better level, and not antagonizing them. Their fears aren't unfounded, but we can do much better to assuage them. These extremists in the movement are toxic and hurting the cause. If we want to see cis women sticking up for trans women, trans women need to stick up first, not bawl and throw a tantrum demanding positive change.

Someone in high heels and lipstick walking into the men's room will get much weirder looks than someone in high heels and lipstick with a squarish jaw and kinda wide shoulders walking into the women's room.

It's a minority who get sex reassignment surgery. Most are happy to stop at hormone therapy (if they can get that far), mostly because science/medicine doesn't make very good replicas of genitals yet. Lots of trans people simply transition socially, meaning they present themselves as the other gender but make no biological changes. And even the ones who go all the way don't do it all at once. It can take years to transition. There's pictures online of people on hormones and you can see how long it takes for them to look really different. They might have to wait on the biological stuff (you have to qualify for the treatment), but very little stops trans people from changing what they wear, how they speak, etc. So someone who's out in public presenting as one gender has to piss, if they walk into the bathroom that matches the other, they're going to draw a lot more attention (likely to be very negative) than if they just walk into the bathroom that matches their appearance. There are feminine men and masculine women in those bathrooms anyway, but even aside from the trans issue, people tend to get really uncomfortable when they see someone who looks like the other gender come into the bathroom.

There definitely are.
t.lacanian

Trans people are ironically almost exclusively a bourgeoise white phenomenon, and are mostly born men. It is frowned upon to mention this.

90% of the activists (no matter which causes they pay lip service to) would settle right back into polite bourgeois society if normal attractive people started fucking them. That is quite literally their main gripe, they are incels with a persecution complex.

It is regrettable that many trans people are gay men and women that society pressures into conforming into the other gender role. On the other hand, there are a load of straight men with paraphilias whose politics revolve around the bitterly unfair fact that a bit of makeup and some plastic surgery doesn’t make lesbians orgasm on sight

my general experience is that anti-trans feminists are more of a problem than anti-feminist trans.

anti-trans feminists just want to be in their own corners and do their rad fem thing, anti-feminist trans people dont even bother feminists, it's lefty trans people that go around punching and tearing things up at feminist organized events while screaming 'TRANSPHOBIA'

Its another episode of idpols push their trademark talking point.

What "trans activism" are you referring to? Be specific.
?????

All this shite is stupid, I don't understand why you care about it.

I have no gender or genitalia, I am smooth like a Ken doll.

Holy autismo
Can I get some credible sources to these claims?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanchard's_transsexualism_typology
Autogynephilic trans people are just straight men who get off at the idea of being a qt anime girl.

Ah yes what the the typical self proclaimed trap weeaboos are
But seriously, I want some credible citations to what you claimed in
I won't disagree that this does happen in real life, but unscientific as a theory.

Most of this is valid on the part of trans activists.
The issues I've had with trans activists IRL are:
fucking hell, it's nobody's business whether I find feminine penises attractive or not.
there are many contexts where this is not confusing, but it still can be very confusing at times (and imo is pointless compared to normal gender pronouns)

there are loads of trans black folks turning tricks out in the streets because they can't find any other kind of employment. you need to do some research bud.

idpol liberal shit

Post pictures of this. I am curious.

Perhaps then, they should stop being trans. They shouldn't expect me to feel sorry for them for their virtue signaling.

Yep and you should just stop being white. It's not asking much is it?
idiot

Race is something your born with. Pretending to be a cute little girl is a habit that can easily be stopped. Just put away your dress and lipstick, stop contorting your body, and act like a functioning grown up.

That's not how a mental illness works

Ah, it's another Holla Forums showing its true reactionary face episode. Have fun LARPing as progressives in your basement, guys, the tendies are on their way

How is this reactionary?

wish I snapped the post of freudfag saying something like:

that was a great post

The faulty idea that transsexuality is a "mental illness". This used to be said even about homosexuality by reactionaries, but at least a considerable part of them stopped doing this nowadays.

How the fuck is that idpol? If we want to unite the proletariat, we also have to ensure that there's no discrimination whatsoever based on social criteria, even though the primary focus should be on class. I dislike idpol and the minimalizing of class conflict, but I also dislike anti-idpol's autistic screeching anytime an actually relevant social issue is even brought up.

I'm with you comr8.

From Wiki:
I think when you believe you are born with the wrong genitalia, you pretty much fall into that category. Homosexuality probably isn't a mental illness because the distress caused by it is almost entirely a social construct, whereas gender dysphoria is not.

Also, Blanchard has been proven by empirical data:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4987404/

My point was that you can't "stop" being trans, just as you can't simply stop being depressed or addicted. Gender dysphoria is a real mental health problem and we have the means to help people who suffer from it, i.e. hormone therapy, surgery etc.. By all means, please point out where you think I'm wrong, I want only the best for these people.

I'm probably sounding like a Peterson shill, but that's why I would really advocate to these people to accept the body that they are given. They can still fuck whoever they want, but going through a sex change might be regrettable later, and once you realize nobody wants to fuck you but just feels pity for you, you might end up killing yourself.

correct, and the solution isn't to indulge in those behaviors either

There are trained professionals who can guide people through the proces and help them determine if transitioning is what they really want. As long as they have the interest of trans people at heart, rather than spooked believes, they'll come to the right conclusions.

I'm having a lot less faith in the capitalist healthcare system. Transitioning is expensive as fuck, there are profits to me made from an increasingly alienated crowd of middle class teens who are sexually confused. I was in therapy for depression myself and I know how fucked up this system can be.

>That's probably the most liberal thing I've read today
I'm flattered.
If they can back their differing opinion up with real results and data, then no.

To be conservative on social values is to hold the same values as the working class. Last I checked, socialists were on the side of the workers.

So let's all become religious too.

This is a bit of a myth, workers don't like all this in-your-face LGBTQNGUB+ bullshit with parades, flags, etc. they also dislike immigration because it drives their wages down. Other than that, they don't hold particularly conservative values, most workers I meet don't mind what you fuck, how you dress, what you eat, as long as you are not going into their face with it - which is, unfortunately, what a huge bunch of leftists do. Imagine a worker discovering r/socialism and being banned after 5 seconds for saying "I think capitalism is an idiotic system" (ableism).

Adding to that, it's also an absolute myth that the lower income groups vote right. Liberals and right-wingers get their votes from the petit bourgeoisie and upper middle class almost entirely, maybe also from farmers but that's it. It's the neoliberal anti-worker propaganda that's repeated ad nauseum that the working class supports right-wing populists.

Devotion to socialism will replace ridiculous superstitions, including the superstition of transgenderism.


LGBTBBQ and its ilk is almost exclusively a product of bourgeoisie decadence. It is entirely alien to the culture of the working class. If it seems to you that the working class is "embracing" it, then it's just a sign of liberalism ruining their revolutionary potential. When compromised by liberalism, former proles will trade socialism in exchange for the right to get one's dick chopped off. So yeah, I'd say the problem is more than just being "in one's face", it's also a question of morals.


Working class folks, particularly native working class folks, tend to vote nationalist and populist, which can be either right or left. So far, they are voting right, because they are willing to take up national populism while the left takes up globalism and decadence.

Jesus christ, this has to be bait.
You're aware there's also a lot of workers that don't support socialism at all right?

And why do you think that is? It's because so called "socialists" champion the cause of faggots and marauders, rather than the working class. They have no choice but to vote far right if they want to survive, because at least the far right cares about them.

Fuck off Holla Forums

[citation needed]

So you believe everyone in the working class is straight? Homosexuality is a middle/upper class phenomenon? Do you literally have even the slightest proof apart from homophobic sentiment

You are not a progressive. Go fuck yourself asswipe

Trans activism isn't about transgenderism as a truly existing condition, it's the current manifestation of the idee fixé which feminism has a need for.

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Wrongheaded meme. I've read a few history students masters theses on this, and the origin of these kinds of groups is just proles and lumpenproles helping each other out, and looking for a way to get in touch with each other away from the normies who (we are talking 40, 50 years back or so) would rather do violence to them. The capture by the professional class, and their focus on representism (diversity officers and so on) is only something of the last few decades.

How does it feel to get easy (you)s with your bait? Have one more

What if transgenderism is actually a cultural fascist project to create eunuchs?

Cursed image

Progressivism is antithetical to leftism. You should know this.

Also, if you knew even the slightest amount of history, you would know that homo identities a were exclusively adopted by the upper class and those of decadent professions. The working class, when not tainted by this, is exclusively heterosexual.


Lumpenproles are the enemy of the proletariat, miss me with that revisionist shit.

it's the gang for you and me

Smh
No one be weird

Any credible citations to that claim

You're contradicting yourself in your own post you Holla Forumsyp imbecile. Something can't be a lumpenprole deviation and bourgeois decadence.

bourgeois decadence turns proles into lumpenproles. It's not hard


That's like asking to prove turtles have shells. It's self evident.

That's not what the words mean brainlet. Getting fucked in the ass does not stop you being a wage labourer.

You cant be productive if your mind revolves around having sexual intercourse with shit. Sorry, but that's just a fact.

Of course you can, that's the point of assembly lines and specialization in general.

yeah and that's why porkmeister has cultivated homophobia among the working class for centuries

lol what? More like they are pushing for the acceptance of faggots these days. Homophobia, which is a stupid word, is the only true act of cultural resistance these days

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firstly, hi Holla Forums

secondly, yes the neoliberal establishment pushes LGBT idpol these days, but LGBT itself arose as a grassroots movement among proles until it grew strong enough to be co-opted by porky as a divide and conquer tactic

thirdly, you're now going to argue that literal centuries of anti-gay agitation and terror by religious authorities and elites had no material basis

Why is this polyp brainlet not banned yet

its gender dysphoria, its something for the psychiatrists to deal with, not for the ideologues of either field.
treating this as a civil rights subject is weakening the left.

I just got him. It looks like we had a long stretch without any other mods on.

Ty comrade.

Well, photos and on turtle anatomy is proof itself.
You still don’t have proof to your claims.

np

Friendly reminder to sage and report trolls and shitposters.

because he didn't criticize the regime of Assad or other dictators

Some of the ☭TANKIE☭s are trans

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t. decadent bourgeoisie

Trans rights is literally a bourgeoisie thing, it is nothing to do with proletariat culture.

Read Engels, it is a product of bourgeoisie decadence.

Not exactly, it is a product of class oppression and patriarchy.

No. It is a product of a bourgeois lifestyle, a side effect of the alienation created by capitalist production. There is a reason that homosexuality increases as does capitalist production.

t. decadent bourgeoisie

The views of Engels on these issues were obviously a product of the time he lived in. Stop idolizing literally everything Marx or Engels ever said. I hope you're just baiting

Maybe it's you that are a product of the time you live in. Maybe it is you that are wrong.

Such a shame it is impossible to discuss topics like this here without Holla Forums false flagging and baiting.

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This isn't true. Homosexuality increases not due to any change in the mode of production, as there were plenty of gay people before capitalism was established, but due to large-scale abandonment of God.

You are either a spook or you don't understand false flaging.

Good

It's a little known fact that Stalin xirself was trans.

Good.

Thank god.

Spooks, non even once

I don’t mind them most of the time, but there is two thing that they sometimes do that annoys me.
A. They claim that if you refuse to date them you’re transphobic. This is not true, I refuse to date trans people not because of transphobia, but because I want to have biological children.
B. When they force “puberty blockers” on kids. Leave kids out of this shit. These meds have side effects.

Nice thighs. Are you going to show the obscured area in between them, or do I just assume you're lying?

the LGBT movement is utter shit, it has nothing to do with any serious socialist organization, and funnily enough has nothing to do with LGBT people in 90% of the cases. You have 4%< of the population represented in a movement that is louder than all other societal issues despite the LGBT receiving the same basic rights as straight people, and this applies to trans specifically who are like 0.4% of the population. The fact is these LGBT movements are being used as a decoy to deflect from much more important social and economic issues, and we can see it's victory in a way in western europe & america as communist and socialist parties become more infatuated with LGBT politics, sporting liberal slogans while abandoning any semblance of serious class issues. And the LGBT movements themselves, which in europe are organized by lobbies within the EU which extend their hands even to non-EU countries and in America by Ford and the Rockefellers, are predominantly used for two things: 1) to pull away attention from social and economic issues that affect the wider masses and 2) to push liberal ideology under the farce of a humanitarian movement, deflecting criticisms as homophobia or transphobia.

particularly to the case of europe, the EU lobbies pushing these movements create LGBT orgs that push out any sort of grass root LGBT organization in european countries, having particular dominance in the EU itself. The result of this is a social civil rights movement that is also perfectly integrated as an EU mouthpiece in all european countries from the UK to Russia, which you get vilified for pushing out. There are other issues too, to me homosexuals seem to me as their sexuality consumes their identity, We've kicked out some five gay members from the party back while I was a member, because they were no-shows on protests & strikes but were quick to go on a pride march or LGBT rally. Simply put: A fag would rather go to a pride than on a strike. And don't give me that shit about defending their interests, they were workers all and showed no solidarity for these workers at a rally, but they were quick to leap for their identity. There are similar problems with working with feminists or having self-proclaimed feminists within the party, with the former being happy to receive aid from communists when there is a women's rights protest but are nowhere to be seen during strikes, and the latter doing basically the same things as I mentioned before: Ignoring any sort of socialist organization but attending every sort of feminist protest, ignoring marxist theory & study groups but actively attending dumb shit like gender studies. This is my general observation & experience with the LGBT movement over the past 7 years of political activity. You want to be really careful with LGBT politics and especially existing organizations comrades.

another big thing I forgot to mention is that these lobbied LGBT movements in both Europe and America push out any grassroots LGBT organization, basically making it impossible for local LGBT to push their own politics. It comes down to the fact that if you want to politically organize as LGBT you have to town the EU's line. This is a big issue here in my country, I know a lot of LGBT people who plain do not participate in any politics and hate the LGBT movement because they are ashamed of it in the public, and they hate it for shilling the EU.

it's already weird.

i really want to get therapy and try to get things sorted out but what am i supposed to tell other than "i really just want to kill stupid people and find peace"?
it's not i'm out of my mind enough to actually do it
purely for i reject individual terror though, not because i wouldn't really want to

Not making any statements, but the user making the arguments about bourgeoisie decadence above really should have brought up this

Okay well I have a puss

It's fat coochie babe!

Do you have more in depth information on this? It sure feels as if you are right; you aren't be the first to notice a certain degree of Americanization of the discourse etc. But I'm interested if there is any research or journalism on the actual working of this.

What's intersectional working-class/asshole activism?

Not at all, as capitalism has grown in power so has social liberalism. Social liberalism is a disease of the bourgeois, every Marxist outside of Germany understood that until the 1990s, then everybody went soft because people stopped caring about Marxism and turned the left into trans-homosexual rights movement. So disgusting.

Magical thinking. You rely on an unnamed force suddenly leading people astray. The truth of the matter is that socialism in the west was dealt near fatal blows by neoliberalism and the psychological shock of the fall of the Soviet Union. Many of organizations and individuals engaged in leftism then acted opportunistically to try and revitalize by shifting into idpol, co-opting movements that had already organically arisen in marginalized communities.

doubt.jpg

I named it, it is social liberal ideology.

Really now? And what is the material basis for the sudden explosion of this ideology? Or did it simply start to infect people as if by black magic?

Victory of capitalism over other economic modes of production. It then commoditises the social relations as it has no competition so it can subordinate it to production over maintenance of stability.

Is that how love at first sight works?

Let's unpack this garbled string of words. How does one commodify social relations? To commodify means to make it so something can be produced for exchange. There are obviously no "relation factories" being built, so we'll take a wider view for the sake of argument: making money out of relations. I see some of that with the rise of mediating platforms like tindr, where a for profit enterprise can interpose itself between two people seeking to establish a relation. You also see a lot of companies latching onto existing idpol to try and market products, but obviously they are seizing on a movement that was already there; the rainbow flag long predates rainbow doritos. For straight people, though, using human relationships to market goods goes back a long time, to for example the spread of memes like diamonds in wedding rings and buying gifts on valentines day, all marketing ploys. But all of this has dick to do with the spread of progressive views on homosexuality. There is no causative link between valentines day and gay acceptance.

You're not making any arguments.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If someone feels like a different gender why dont we instead research into therapy to make the person having gender dysphoria more comfortable in their own body?

Depends. Liberal trans activism is cancer has to die, but leftist trans activism, while good in addressing capitalism as a tool for oppression, can divulge into gender essentialism, in which they put themselves first, and not the working class as a whole.

Its gay. Im neutral so dont care if there are trans quotas for companies or if they are shot and thrown in mass graves.

I think the un-easyness I feel about tran people is a side effect from living in an atomized society, I don't think I could relate to them as normal people, as I'd be too afraid of offending them, marginalized as they are.and then you get trans people on the media saying you are transphobic if you refuse to have sex with them, or have funny colored hair and made up pronouns. and also there's the nonbinary people who are obviously just taking up labels in order to seem more progressive and virtuous. I just find their mindset totally alien and incomprehensible