one of my supervisors at work is an infowars Libertarian. He knows I'm a leftist and is constantly bringing up things like "you see that Muslim that stabbed the guy in Sweden?" etc etc. yesterday, while we were arguing over communism, he told me the communists have already infiltrated America and that they've secretly been operating since the 60's. just years after the Red Scare. He genuinely believes "globalist communists" run America. I don't know how to fucking argue with these people. He thinks everything I present to him is fake, and everything Jones says is real. How the fuck do you have discourse with these people?
One of my supervisors at work is an infowars Libertarian...
This. Let them win. It's a lost battle, anyhow.
Anyway, you don't. They're in too deep. Not worth your time.
I personally know people who went through a Libertarian phase, and somewhat followed the Infowars crowd- who later became leftists. This dude does seem a bit too far gone, though.
nice try Holla Forums
To me the bizarre part is caring about left vs right instead of up vs down, meaning OP should be the one checking his privilege
It is unlikely that this person has a genuine interesting in understanding the world he lives in, or in learning about epistemology (how we know what we know is true). You can't educate someone who doesn't want an education, especially if that would cause them to question their existing notion of reality.
This is a large part of why humanity is well and truly doomed - the vast, vast majority of us will take feels over reals every time. Alex Jones and people like him are just the 21st century snake oil salesmen. They sell people a vision/version of reality that demonizes all of the things that their listeners already dislike, makes them demonic, conspiratorial, all powerful, and all working tirelessly against poor Joe Everyman and his American Dream(tm).
I guess my only recommendation would be to try to get this person to learn the history of US intervention in other countries. There's a very clear pattern of death-for-profit, of overthrowing democracies, propping up aggressive theocracies (only to go to war with them a decade or two later) and of attacking even the smallest, most remote communes in Asian jungles because they could potentially undermine the idea that communism always fails and capitalism always wins - an idea that the government itself has been broadcasting in every form imaginable for almost a century now.
There are former US Generals, government officials, people who have been at the heart of the American empire who, after they retire of course, will spill the beans on the true nature of these operations. These might be valuable resources for a Jones listener, because these people may carry some authority for them. They are speaking truth to power, which is something that Jones always pretends to do, except that they were actually there, in the room, making the decisions, as it was happening.
In truth, the infowars listener recognizes that society has problems, knows that they're being lied to, and understands that there are powerful people in the world doing terrible things. The goal should be to correct the 'who' in that equation from liberal lesbian lizardpeople (or whatever else Jones is ranting about) to, surprise surprise, the actual people with money and power in global society. If you can do that, they might not come on board with communism or anything like that, but they'll at least be able to better articulate the ills that society faces by accurately recognizing who has control, who profits the most from societies sickness. If they can do that, then they may become our allies.
Bring up the meme that JFK was a communist that might shut him up
*blocks your path*
You can't. They're pathological.
Its called a bullet.
the only people who are gonna eat bullets will be ☭TANKIE☭s, friend.
oh? And whose gonna do it? The liberals?
nothing to see here please move on
but jfk hated communism
best you can do is tell him that he is actually comfortable in his hatred and that all the info he consumes is specifically made to keep him reinforcing his beliefs denying other sources and most importantly keep him watching infowars, that's how they make money out of him. Try making him feel used and biased and to top it all show him how even though he consumes tons of hate media he never takes action because the comfort in having his opinions confirmed outweights the hatred generated by his ideology. If his problems were material and not ideological he would be taking action.
given their track record, yeah; also, other leftists.
First you have to realize that he's right
Even Jones talks about this, its baby-tier political discourse now pls don't give me (You)s pointing out how most Americans don't know the full-extent of US crimes and interventions, the American public has shallow or false knowledge on a lot of subjects
Honestly, I think its best to approach things like this: ask him how things would be different from what we have now. Would there be foreign trade? Would there be banks? Would there be immigration? If there isn't immigration ask him what happens when there is a critical labor shortage in one part or region of the global economy, are wages held down by force or are they allowed to rise to the point where capital is unprofitable or till capitalists begin looking for more lucrative opportunities?
Ask him how the "alt-capitalism" of a la Alex Jones and other libertarians is actually different then what we have now. Tell him that the problems we have now are just the logical consequences of capitalism when left to its own devices.
Just ask him to look at things from the perspective of Occam's razor is it more likely there's a grand conspiracy causing all our ills today or that these are merely the logical consequences of capitalism.
I think this is the best starting point when talking with rightists.
That's the point. American lolberts called JFK a communist because he was catholic or some shit
You two aren't even speaking the same language, it will take a personal crisis for him to get where you are now, and you certainly aren't going to do it on your own. If every enemy he sees, he labels 'communist' because that's his impulse, it will take a come-to-jesus conversion moment.
However, he certainly is capable of becoming a true leftist. He's already political and he's paying attention. It might be the totally wrong kind of attention, and it might be total lies and slander, but it should be noted that he would be easier to convince than a liberal.
People like that already have a petite bourg mindset. They won't stop until America is invaded and their belief in America's inherent superiority is forcibly shattered. The empire must fall before any kind of leftism can really take root here.
Don't talk to him. Don't take the bait.
This. Most people whether reactionary or not know or 'feel' that something isn't right with the world, it's just really hard to make them admit that its capitalism because bourgeois ideology has dominated. This should be the goal of the left nowadays, co-opt the terminology of the right to make people realize that their is definitely something wrong with the "system"
Globalists and elites can refer to bourgeoisie
Democratic workplaces and libertarianism (this used to be a leftwing term, take that shit back as Zizek says) to describe the economic system of socialism. Don't mention communism or Marx by name because they are associated with negative things (unjustly so but that isn't going to change people's minds).
You know back in the day, Marx roasted this socialist (Moses Hess maybe) because he spoke French to a worker's council in London. Marx called him a fucking retarded nigger because he spoke a language that nobody understood. That is the left nowadays, we are speaking a language that the workers don't even understand or want to know because a majority of leftists like to sit on our high horses and criticize others' praxis and theory. We need to dumb things down a bit from Marxism and be subversive like the right because the left has a serious problem with mobilizing mass movements through populism unlike the right.
If you really want to argue just ask him if he thinks the Fed is Capitalism.
Also if he has a water filter from Alex Jones the tests are done by the State of California, so ask him if he is ok with Alex Jones using Communist propaganda from Commiefornia to sell his water filters.