/leftpol/ vs Holla Forums rift mended!!

Great news if you're a heval or a tànkie, we're all on the same side again! Unless we're just going to pretend this didn't just happen or are we supporting the NATO/al-Qaeda axis in their anti imperialist struggle now?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frantic
twitter.com/op_shield/status/966274152280854528
youtube.com/watch?v=U3SxuPrXLn0
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

no we're not, hopefully this is the beginning of the end for Roj*va.

>>>Holla Forums

Oppurtunists are a taint on the left.

...

Assad has been fighting jihadists as well and probably killed a lot more of them then the over a dozen US military bases in Syria. I don’t understand why it has to be an either/or thing aren’t they working together now?

It dosent have to be
But absolute dickheads like….

Actively seem to want to see North Syria fail just so they have ammo to use against libertarian socialists and so they can keep their "BAZED Rossyian Axis of Neo-Liberal Resistance Against America"

and the BO is still an Autist

>Red liberals opposing an actual joint resistance against a literal NATO invasion
Nice dubs though btw

"leftism" can be anything, I am not for "leftism," I am for liberation and communism.

wow getting support from NATO == fighting NATO, you learn something new every day

I am not opposing SAA rightfully defending Syria in Afrin, I am saying that this is not "left unity," this represents a split in the over a dozen US military bases in Syria and hopefully the beginning of the end for Roj*va.

The Syrian goverment has shown little Willingness to begin a war with North Syria
At most conflicts have been minor clashes along the Euphrates
So even when the Turks Leave/Get expelled it dosent seem the SAA wants to start shit with North Syria immediately
On top of that there is still the Idlib situation along with the Damascus pockets and the pockets near golan to deal with

The /YPG/SDF/ Should have more then enough time to work out a defensive strategy

why do you think that would happen?
If this is a who would win scenario, can you set the guidelines? Does Syria get Russian backing? what battlefield do they use? does over a dozen US military bases in Syria get unlimited ammo?

...

It's just a a tactical thing in Afrin. The SAA doesn't endorse the S.D.F. Stop projecting things that aren't there.

you mean /leftpol/tards would actually do that, switch from supporting one US puppet to the other, from over a dozen US military bases in Syria to openly support ISIS now?
i wouldn't put it past them

and no, we're of course not on the same side, we never were and never will be
antigerman bootlickers are fascists in nature
they're about as socialist as self admitted nazis

your ethno-nationalist US balkanization project failed and your proxy is begging the legitimate government of these areas to step in, which it naturally would, since as just said, it's already the legitimate government defending its own territory and people
your ethno-"socialists" friends are done

How could they "backstab" them when they never supported them in the first place?

fuck the over a dozen US military bases in Syria (not kurds, your "one people one idea" nazi propaganda, shove it back your antigerman ass, faggot) is a proxy army of foreign intervention
the kurdish people are part of syria
and it's not airstrikes against ISIS
it's them hosting foreign troops on syrian territory
attacking the government troops repeatedly
and it was the US that created ISIS to begin with

and there was literally nothing comparable in the soviet-german treaty
there were no german troops stationed on soviet territory by it.
contrary, the soviet union positioned itself more favorable to strike against the hitler regime.

now tell me: when will the over a dozen US military bases in Syria use it's "weight" they have in this "alliance" and strike against the USA?

Will Anarkiddies ever learn?

if you want to get anything in their had it has to be a 9mm

Nice try.

Regarding the Syrian Civil War over a dozen US military bases in Syria has been allied with Assad since 2015, since Russia arms and supports both K-rdistan and the Syrian government.

The infighting and the censorship didn't make any logical sense since day one.

Almost no-one actually believes the "ASSad must go" Shit
We (As communists) simply recognize his Neo-Liberal Nature and dont "Offer him our critical support against imperialism" and all that
Almost No one thinks he should be taken out and replaced with literal Islamist's

Assad and North Syria have been working together since 2015 for fucks sake

...

this tactic sure worked out for the alt-right, no?

How about debunking it?
And that dosent even talk about how the USSR allowed THREE US Air-Bases in Ukraine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frantic

I'd wish that was just it, but it's not. Leftpol is fucking cultish, obsessed with two topics (YPG and BO) and every other topic just feels played ("Look, look, we're totally not obsessed with two topics only, we can have regular – FUCK BO – discussions as well!"), it's ran by hypocrites who never delivered on any of their promises (muh democratic board), but worst of all: it's not funny.

What a sour, hypocritical, dumb shithole that place is.

Also
Wtf are you even talking about?
Who said that?

There's a whole thread dedicated to BTFO'ing that:

Do all the Tanks reeeing about US aid to Northern Syria realise that Assad was the literal go to guy for the US to extradite prisoners to, so that the Syrian Intelligence Service could torture them? That they were both on the same side during the Gulf War?

I've not see anyone in that thread coherently argue that the Soviet Union was wrong to do so, or that it's any better than what the over a dozen US military bases in Syria did with the Yanks.

Typical

How about explaining it in your own words?
Tell me
How could you support the USSR in its war against Hitler when it had THREE US airbases in Ukraine and took US weapons?

we had this meme of false equivalences before, for months, and all you do is repeating it without acknowledging how fucking retarded you make yourself look

if you just read the wiki article for example
the soviets insisted on maintaining superiority over the territory by solely providing AA defenses

you are literally claiming that over a dozen US military bases in Syria is on equal terms if not outperforming the US military presence

if you think anyone will see you as anything but a retarded person trying to pull shit out of his ass in a pathetic attempt to safe face while really just making it worse for himself, you are deluded to the point where only a rope can help you out of this misery of complete retardation

but i guess hosting a foreign military presence that is the only coverage for you actually having any advances and you failing miserably without it in the face of the first real military opposition showing up, which is also an ally of your so called "backer" really is the same as hosting foreign troops on selected 3 air bases that are entirely under your control

yes, it's just the same
and bleach just tastes amazing, have you tried some yet? you totally should

Fuck off.
Unity implies compromise and Holla Forums are a bunch of smackheads.

They do
The North Syria Forces obviously outnumber US forces on the Ground
And the US presence is confined to the Bases

Telling someone to KYS is not Debunking

full Holla Forumsack "tactics", lol

so if anyone was wondering if anarchists are deluded and completely gone retarded

this is your answer

yes, they are

Are you telling me the US has tens of thousands of troops in north Syria?

>false equivalences
The exact expression I was looking for. It is blaringly obvious then to others as well how manipulative and dishonest this guy is?

WW2 isn't the same as a shitty little ethnicity's nation building effort being caught up in the turmoil of Turkey's and US imperialism's interests.

Hitler is nothing like ISIS, the Axis are nothing like the Caliphate. If you've read 2 articles on ISIS and haven't flunked basic history you'd have known.

I'm not going to go on, I only responded to make visible to everyone your manipulation.

Lel, it hurt your fee fees? Hearing the truth about your dying two dimensional piss-stenched anarcho-club hurt big anarcho boy's feelings? Did BO made you a booboo? ;;;___;;;

Stopped reading
North Syria is a multi-ethnic pluralistic project that has been making efforts to protect and preserve the rights of all the ethnic minorities the Ba'ath government ignored and even abused

Hurr durr

Lost flag

The US has three million troops in Syria, but effectively its like if they weren't even there cuz they never leave their bases. Not even for dinner. They order pizza.

Starting to think that the Tanks would rather ISIS had massacred everyone in Kobane, rather than the Kurds there use laser pointers for the USAF.

Better a defeated Revolution that can be pointed to as pure, than a surviving one that might have to make difficult decisions.

FACT

Do you have numbers to back up your argument? It's more convincing than smugness.

Are you intentionally missing out on the hilarity?

They aren't beyond saving.
Hopefully this is the beginning of Roj*va's transformation into a truly revolutionary force and the end of imperialist collaboration.

And that will be allowed by… The Turks, Syrians, or the US? The best deal they can get out of this mess is an autonomous region acknowledged by a party having enough weight to secure them relative safety. Even that sounds way too optimistic if you consider Turkey's interests, the further tumult it would cause in the region (iraqi kurds), etc.

A group of shiite militants have arrived to the Jinderes front.
twitter.com/op_shield/status/966274152280854528

Rojava will only survive with socialism in one country

Can’t remember the source, but there was a Y P G fighter who explained it in a way that soft western ☭TANKIE☭s reeeeing about cooperation with the US from the comfort of their bedrooms. He said that the US simply started bombing during Kobane, and offered their support. The air strikes against ISIS significantly reduced Kurdish casualties, so saying that they should have rejected US aid is equivalent to saying that more Kurdish fighters should have died. This is real life, not a LARP, and when the Kurds were facing annihilation they took whatever help they could get.

If the US offered to support Assad against ISIS he would have accepted and all you faggots know it.

ORDERLY RETREAT, THEN FEROCIOUS COUNTERATTACK.

Now try to defend the military bases.

are you mentally challenged?

Lenin was supported by the German Empire at one point. I guess you would have opposed the Bolsheviks and supported the Tsar in his "anti-imperialist struggle"?

And then there's this liberal tripe:
Irrelevant. Communism will end all of that. The only relevant question then is whether Rohava is more conductive to bringing about communism, or whether it's a united Syria under the Ba'ath party.
Allegations of being 'imperialists proxies' (Either Rohava or the Syrian government) matter little considering that all modern states (and even revolutionary or insurrectionary movements) are forced to operate within the dominant mode of production. They will all be used and exploited by the dominant players. Not even North Korea can isolate itself these geopolitical power plays.

You forgot the part where both Germany and the Soviet Union cooperated on military research for years, or how they both invaded Poland, or how the SU had American airbases at one point and accepted lavish US aid.
Not that any of this should be opposed, but the Soviets were able to practice realpolitik like anyone else. And thankfully they did.

These people aren't even genuine Leninists. They're red liberals that try to hide their love of nationalism and other bourgeois ideology behind 'communist' rhetoric.

fuck the kurds for not wanting to get butchered by ISIS

*online LARPers in 1941*
I support the anti-imperialist Germany in its struggle against Anglo-American imperialism in all its forms including the Soviet Union.

lol his post got deleted
Lenin was supported by the German Empire at one point. I guess you would have opposed the Bolsheviks and supported the Tsar in his "anti-imperialist struggle"?

And then there's this liberal tripe:
Irrelevant. Communism will end all of that. The only relevant question then is whether Rohava is more conductive to bringing about communism, or whether it's a united Syria under the Ba'ath party.
Allegations of being 'imperialists proxies' (Either Rohava or the Syrian government) matter little considering that all modern states (and even revolutionary or insurrectionary movements) are forced to operate within the dominant mode of production. They will all be used and exploited by the dominant players. Not even North Korea can isolate itself these geopolitical power plays.

You forgot the part where both Germany and the Soviet Union cooperated on military research for years, or how they both invaded Poland, or how the SU had American airbases at one point and accepted lavish US aid.
Not that any of this should be opposed, but the Soviets were able to practice realpolitik like anyone else. And thankfully they did.

These people aren't even genuine Leninists. They're red liberals that try to hide their love of nationalism and other bourgeois ideology behind 'communist' rhetoric.

That was a different post user

They were bases for US special forces and air crews to operate out of. If the Kurds were going to accept US aid it makes sense that they would allow some US personnel in their territory.

The US is not backing ISIS, if they were then they wouldn’t have intervened against them at Kobane and stopped them from winning a decisive victory. They also wouldn’t be arming basically all of ISIS’ regional enemies except Assad.

...

The ☭TANKIE☭ hate for the S.D.F. has never made any sense. Most of the foreign fighters supporting them are Marxist-Leninists from Turkey. I think Holla Forums is just filled with pseuds that like cock sucking strongmen like Assad rather than holding any coherent views on revolutionary politics. It's sad because we used to actually be able to debate this shit before BO sperged out.

just because they call themselves ML, doesn't mean they actually are, you gullible retard.

Add to that the fact that there is literally no proof.

The US was backing the FSA, many fighters of which defected to ISIS, not to mention that the rebels bribed ISIS to not kill them by giving them weapons.

No hard proof for this, it’s a random claim made by an Iraqi Shiite militia commander and carried by Syrian and Russian state media.

...

Is this the fabled dialectical wizardry of ☭TANKIE☭s?

?
Why was that banned? I didn't see the post it's replying to.

Wouldn't be the first time.

Maybe, but I would find the claim of US support for ISIS if they hadn’t been directly responsible (at least in part) for the turning of the war in Syria against ISIS. If the US was backing them then it makes no sense for them to intervene the way they did at Kobane, especially since the Kurds have proven they are willing to work against US interests whenever it suits them.

MLs who are actually fighting a revolution are just larpers, you guys are the real vanguard. Criticising over a dozen US military bases in Syria from your mom's basement and ""supporting"" assad (on twitter) is how you build socialism in the 21st century.

they're not fighting a revolution. real MLs in Syria (the Syrian communist parties) support the Syrian government.

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

No
Their literally just gutted shill parties for the Neo-Liberal Baath that had all the actual socialist elements purged decades ago
Just like How the CPRF is just a gutted shill for United russia

MLs who are actually fighting NATO are just larpers, you guys are the real vanguard. Criticising Syria from your mom's basement and ""supporting"" NATO (on Holla Forums) is how you build socialism in the 21st century.

I dont deny that they do good by fighting NATO
Im just pointing out that they are a bunch of Gutted parties purged of all actual socialist membership that exist solely to funnel support to the Baath

Can you prove this wrong?

I don't get why people are having the same fucking argument for the millionth time, ignoring the fact that over a dozen US military bases in Syria and NDF forces are fighting side by side against NATO invasion. This kind of petty sectarianism is why the left will never get anywhere.

There's no fucking Assad vs. over a dozen US military bases in Syria dichotomy brainlet. Assad has been the main supplier of the over a dozen US military bases in Syria throughout the war. Without Assad's support, there would be no over a dozen US military bases in Syria at all in northern Syria. Before, his father gave refuge to the PKK's founder.

This has been standard US practice of the US in the region for the last 30 years, you ignorant fool. The US imperialist machine's one half is arming a force that the other half is attacking and vica versa.
youtube.com/watch?v=U3SxuPrXLn0

Again, with the false equivalences.

Good luck to them in their endeavors. Never said otherwise. Just stop projecting your communist dreams on them, for fucks sake.

They are, you just don't care.
Welcome to the world of US foreign policy.

I find it hilarious that you found a way to worship the over a dozen US military bases in Syria for its anti-ISIS struggles, yet at the same time can't accept the raison d'être for ISIS. It's like ISIS for you has to be a mythical evil, otherwise it would become banal, your "fascists" just extreme fundamentalists, your heroes just regular people trying to survive. Oh, and ofc there's another reason why you can't be bothered to accept the myriad of evidence for the links between the US and ISIS: you're drowning in ideology.

Then point them out. I keep seeing the goal posts being shifted whenever equivalencies get pointed out.
Of course it's not exactly the same. But it's not the first time in history that capitalist powers have tried to subvert, profit off or use communist movements. It was the CIA that aided the Khmer Rouge, Sweden that supported the Viet Cong, the Germans that send Lenin to Russia, etc.
Under capitalism as a dominant mode of production there are no entities that are somehow immune to being used for imperial devices, except those at the very top of the food chain.
Everyone get's used by everyone. This was as true a hundred years ago as today. The 'pure' communist movement - completely separated from it's surroundings - doesn't exist. Every time it materializes from the system's failures and contradictions, it will also be shaped by the dominant ideology, existing alliances, history it self.

Would it have made any difference if it had been Russian or Chinese planes bombing ISIS positions at Kobane? Was there even a choice in matter?
Who Rohava is receiving aid from is not nearly as relevant as how they use it, or what ultimately motivates their decisions. In favor, or in opposition to the communist movement.

Reality check: All major powers are imperialist. It's an implicit effect of states needing to survive in the age of capitalism. Chinese multinationals exploit workers in South-East Asia just as their American counterparts do. Moscow enables corrupt kleptocrats across central Asia. And when Iranian property developers buy up land and factories in Damascus, isn't that exactly the sort of imperialism Lenin talked about?
The disparity in how 'imperialist' any of them are is a consequence of a disparity in the level of capital they command. Not some implicit degree of "purity".
Empire doesn't suddenly become "good" because it's leaders have stopped speaking English. American imperialism wasn't preferable to British Imperialism, or the Spanish imperialism before it. America's successor will not somehow be an exception to this.

Rohava is part of the communist movement not because they've completely abolished the law of value (they haven't), but because they've acted to counteract it. Even if it doesn't possess long term viability. Because an autonomous/independent Rohava in it's current form will be an economic dead-end.
Likewise, whenever the Syrian government fights back against imperialist vultures, or refuses to bow down in the face of neo-liberal demands, it too fights under the banner of communism.

As if that would bear any relevance to the argument at hand. Even if blackflag poster was an actual paralytic confined to life support it wouldn't change a damn thing about what they have to say.

Now this is a good and insightful post. Sadly I can't ofer much more than a (you) in exchange for my gratitude.

Strictly speaking, in materialist historical analysis there can be no equivalences since it looks at the world as a concrete object of study and not abstract emanations of principles, essences, or the like. It always addresses unique historical conjunctures, and when it draws up similarities between historical events (or when comparing countries) it does so first by establishing the basis and limits of the comparison itself: first, by detailing the radical alterity of the situations, second, by looking at their constitutive and always uneven interconnectedness, and third, by relating these to the existing developmental stage of capitalism.

When speaking in loose terms when noting similarities in radically different epochs, events, countries, etc. we always run the risk of reducing history and concrete historical constellations to a series of anecdotes, in other words, doing the work of comparative literature studies and not historical materialism.

Here I should note to all who is interested in the Marxist method to read Lenin's excellent essay, The Right of Nations to Self-Determination, to see this in action, or Althusser's works on Lenin to understand its philosophical underpinnings.

Lenin's conception of imperialism first and foremost denotes an era or stage of capitalism that followed the "free market" period and colonialism, a stage that is arguably over. Now this is not to say that "imperialism" (as a process of capitalist powers) is over or not possible anymore, but that it doesn't play the determinant role or is not the main characteristic of capitalism's current period.

Comparing events from WW1 and WW2 to 21st century events without understanding this shift will always produce errors. (Not to mention produce totally perverse out of frame and out of proportions results, disregarding the vehemence of the former events and elevating the events in over a dozen US military bases in Syria to proportions it simply does not possess.)

I've got to go now, but surely you can work out the rest by yourself.

cont.?

Yeah, no, you left out the point at hand, namely talking about R*java and Syria, by spewing mist though references that remain unconnected to the topic of discussion save for the sentence quoted above.

Forgive me for having to disconnect the discussion. I didn't do it out of spite or lack of interest. I honestly did it out of IRL necessities. If you have any reasonable and logical counter-arguments to my statements above I welcome you to present them. Otherwise I'll wait for the respondent to name his/her problems with it.

Three convoys of NDF have so far arrived in Afrin, at least one has already been deployed to the Jindires front. Their commanders arrived today.

Apparently their was a deal with the PYD and government. Some territory in Aleppo was given back and there's talk of Tal Rifiat too