It's so frustrating how now that progressive Christianity is being reborn from the ashes of the cold war it's merely an...

It's so frustrating how now that progressive Christianity is being reborn from the ashes of the cold war it's merely an aesthetic replacement of liberalism, the mirror image of Holla Forumstards adopting christianity to "fight fun" and anyone who is over their teen years can see they're just mainstream leftist ideologies with Jesus aesthetics, and as such it will never have any large-scale adoption by the body of believers, it will always just be dank internet memes.

A solid theology must be formed not by infusing scriptures with modern interpretation, but by correct exegesis that actually bothers to reveal the subversive radical core of Christianity, not just justify a current ideology that will be dead in a generation anyway, instead we must attempt to form an independent, timeless Christian message, as movements like the catholic worker movement, diggers, quakers, etc. tried.
However that requires uncomfortable breaks with contemporary left-ish ideology and no one is willing to take that step.

Other urls found in this thread:

christiantoday.com/article/slay-the-mad-dogs-how-luther-betrayed-the-peasants-revolt-that-he-inspired/112430.htm

like what exactly?

Fornication and abortion, for example

How long do you continue and old, rotten, and false ideology in Christianity?

What's the new fresh true ideology?

None

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How is Islam superior to Christianity?

Christianity is incompatible with socialism imo

Islam is more Platonist than Christianity

Monotheistic religion is shit. Bring back Greco-Roman Polytheism.

But OP Catholicism is already quite progressive. Whatever difference there is between the Catholic Church and subversive Christianity is circumstantial and at the end of the day they're for the same things: open borders, universalism, a redistributive economy, whatever.

This is why true reactionaries already adopted some form of Traditionalist Catholicism.

Look at pic related, the absolute state of the Church.

Why?


You shouldn't believe things just because you see them on an image

Maybe that image is fake news, doesn't change the fact the Church has been in retreat for the last 200 years, prostating itself to the idols of Modernity and Progress. A century ago it could confidently proclaim liberalism and socialism to be sins, today it meekly says; "gee, it surely would be nice if like, people weren't so unequal."

Decidedly more tolerant and also cooler

Well, it's newer, I guess.

Gee, its almost like religious bodies follow some kind of material conditions

Also I enjoy masturbating to traps without feeling guilty

Joke: Organised Religion

Woke: Secular Humanism

Bespoke: Cult Of Dialectical Materialism

Ascended: cult of the Creative Nothing

Explain.

The social doctrine of the church is barely 100 years old, and it is definitely not prostration to liberalism or progressivism. Don't shit up the thread with baseless claims please.

So, the will of God should be ignored to make irreligious people feel better? Yeah nah

You can't make a timeless message out of a book written for and about the hardships of bronze age life. Every culture and time reads a book differently and interprets it according to their own worldview. Religion is always driven and shaped by politics and changes in society, it evolves and adapts to sit with the new world. Religious sects that dont adapt die out.

Sage because religion is the opiate of the masses.

Maybe if you demonstrated god existed I would actually give a shit, but even then you'd also have to explain why I should care about someone's opinion just because they're more powerful

But that's shit too. Only spirits, no gods.

Noice. Nothing more hypocritical in my mind though than trying to associate the ultimate pacifist character with any acts of war or violence. Jesus's whole story is about being more willing to die than to kill. Then the other parts are about causing havoc for prosperity gospel Jews.

If any sort of theocratic state/state religion is to exist, I agree that the Hellenistic religion should indeed be the best basis for it.

The Hellenistic religion is actually rather unique among extinct religions due to just how much we know about it; Compared to something like the Celtic or Germanic religions, we have an absolute treasure trove of information on much of the fundamental theology behind the Hellenistic faith.
The main thing we lack is information on rituals, cult structures etc; The basics of actually having an organised religion.

How one would go about remedying this problem is something that I have thought about on and off for quite some time; Indeed whenever I have worked on my 'backup' ideologies, consideration for this and similar problems have featured.
I think that the best option would be to fuse the Hellenistic faith with an established, organised, polytheistic religion.
After considering all of the candidates, I believe that Shinto and Pure Land Buddhism would be best.

You shouldn't, this thread isn't for pure marxists, the point is not to make more atheists put up a christian façade and change it from the inside, which is the exact problem I described in OP

Holy shit this is fucking ISIS-tier

Islam unlike Christianity view itself as transhistorical and for it the Islamic state is a MUST a need to apply "the ideal" the Islamic Form into earth

Which is why labourwave Jesus memes make me cringe, it's just senseless memery in bad taste.


I don't defend theocracy, giving formal political power to religious authorities would create the same problem as in Marxism-Leninism: the replacement of committed believers with greedy apparatchiks.


What's fucking ISIS tier? Just because you're a savage that wants to impose his morality on everyone else doesn't mean I defend the same ideals.

well it's your life, but for what it's worth I don't agree with the premise of the OP, you can interpret the bible in a marxist way or reationary or anything in between, it's totally incoherent and self contradictory. so what's even the point?

Which makes Islam even more reactionary than Xtianity. Good to know.

This just keeps getting better
I don't want to impose shit, but i will point out that younger generations don't give a shit about your boomer-esque morals and freedom/fun restrictions.

Well, obviously there's no point if you don't believe you can create consistent themes from the bible, but you can, by measuring how important different books are when put against each other, for exemple, if you couldn't find answers theology wouldn't be a thing.


You literally got so triggered by the fact I wouldn't fap to traps you compared me to ISIS, it can't get better than that.

That phrase implies that you are the one that will impose the "will of god" on the "irreligious", not the other way around

That said I do believe in mandatory trap fapping tho

No, I believe that Christians should discipline themselves, and that it's pointless to pander tho irreligious people if they're not going to acept Christianity as it is.

Joel Osteen is such a piece of shit

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Christians have never and will never be able to "discipline themselves" for shit. You're vagabonds and people who kill/tell themselves god sanctioned it.

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I sometimes wonder how western society would've developed had Constantine lost the battle of the Milvian Bridge, assuming that was the point of no return for Greco-Roman Polytheism.

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It's atheists that are coming here to shitpost, I'm not invading your safe spaces

I know commies are slow on the uptake, but not that slow.

Basically, if temples get shut down and repurposed, instead of burned down with the clergy and parishioners inside, take it as a win.

Religion will be granted to quarter. Ungrateful fucks.

c'mon fam

Only the really well-built ones. The rest can be storehouses.

Your power fantasies are ever sadder and more delusional than a 13yo redpiller. Get some help.

The church is a reactionary institution and a seditious force in every single socialist state that has ever existed, but no, feel free to act patronizingly and as if your continuous existence is assured.

Who's gonna threaten my existence? The proletarian vanguard of pasty keyboard warrior ☭TANKIE☭s?

luther was objectively progressive in the marxist sense tbh fam

But when peasants revolted against the monarchs, he sided with the monarchs.

yes

say your prayers to your phony god now, it's time for user… TO LET 'ER RIP

Rupert Murdoch has southern evangelicals wrapped around his pinky. It's virtually impossible to break the spell he has on rural Churches. They're also ideal totems for the military and reliable voting blocs. If Trump told them the economy was booming, but they lost their 401ks to a recession most would listen to the #MAGA crowd.

christiantoday.com/article/slay-the-mad-dogs-how-luther-betrayed-the-peasants-revolt-that-he-inspired/112430.htm

t. Martin Luther

Eh, I hold that based Julian would have been able to turn things around had he been able to win against the Persians.
Frankly if anyone was going to be able to stop the Galileans, it would have been him.

As for how society would have developed, that is impossible to say and dependent upon countless factors.
However I do think that the Hellenic faith would have ended up in modern times as either a henotheistic faith centred around Sol Invictus or a polytheistic faith most closely comparable to Shenism or Shinto.

Sounds like you're letting your ideological purism get in the way of your anti-imperialism sweaty.


It's not worth it to go after the sorts of people who will betray everything they claim to believe in for what they actually believe in

Kill church porky first, then let the >true< believers of christcuckoldry remain faithful in private and gulag the ones who try to form a new church

true, but his reformation undermined the catholic church, which has always been a pillar of reaction, and helped lay the ground for early capitalism

Your friendly neighboardhood Nazi here.

The people of a spiritual bent who here would probably be described here as reactionaries (especially Nazis) are deeply split on Christianity. One of the two main camps postulates that Christianity is largely responsible for the ascendancy and dominance of Europe over the last two millennia but that it has been "subverted" in recent times and that if corrective measures are taken it can, for lack of a better term "bring back the good old days" - however, there is nothing approaching a consensus on how this should be enacted beyond a few broad principles and Holla Forums-ish Christians engage in almost nonstop sectarian sniping. The other camp is opposed to Christianity in principle as well as incidentally and politically and advocates for a policy similar to the kirchenkampf of NS Germany, culminating in the removal of Christianity and its replacement with a volkish religion. There are many points that get brought up over and over again, but because the NSDAP never took a monolithic and definitive position on Christianity you have people from both camps citing Nazi sources and actions to make their points. This is why pro-Christians and anti-Christians can both point to the same person (Himmler, for example) to back up their position; pro-Christians point to Himmler stating that you have to be Christian to be a member of the SS as an argument that the NSDAP was pro-Christian and anti-Christians point out the fact that Himmler was an avowed pagan and occultist and central to the purported plans of the NSDAP to dismantle Christianity. Beyond the more politically oriented discussions you also have arguments with a more metaphysical and theological bent, most of which degenerate rapidly as the thread picks up steam, and third party positions that range from unironic monarchists to people in the esoteric deep end.

The phrase "pissing into an ocean of piss" has rarely been more apt than when applied to religion threads on Holla Forums, especially post-election.

Church porky is central to keeping the religion alive, that's why we gotta keep them alive. I also don't want them running anything else to prevent corruption.


The reformation was good for the Church in the long term, though, inspiring important changes.


Ah, if only it wasn't for the jew-suits subverting Christianity, we could rape and plunder as Jesus the Aryan intended.

Are any christcoms protestant or is every last one of them catholic?

What's it like being a Jesus worshiping pagan?

John Calvin Klein here, checkin' these dubs.

Historically they were protestant
Someone like Gerard Winstanley is a million times more of a communist than any liberation theologian

*Refuses to capitulate in your general direction*

Somehow you are even worse with theology than with dubs

This ain't no dick measuring contest fams

OP, have you read Bultmann? I highly recommend for Christcoms.

Atheist with deeply religious Catholic parents here. I think I get what you mean bout Christianity amongst Millennials being more aesthetic than anything. There's a big difference between loving thy neighbour and going to church every Sunday and having *that* avatar of a crusader swinging a longsword and calling yourself a Christian cuz you like the anti-Islam history to it. I mean, even Richard "Peaceful Ethnic Cleansing" Spencer describes himself as a "cultural Christian".

Religion is decently malleable. Christiniaty has a history of being reinterpreted so if we could do that and give it a commie slant it could be a very useful asset to be used against the spiritually inclined.

That's the problem with you guys, communism can be experienced as spiritual (see the Invisible Comitee with their fragments of Being stuff). We're not against the spiritually inclined, to believe so is to believe Cold War era anti-communist propaganda.

Who?

And no, materialism will always be naturally against spirituality when it comes to politics.

Have you ever considered that people who slightly disagree with you also have a right to exist?
Or do you unironically think you can make everyone kiss comrade president's ass without enforcing a totalitarian shithole regime?

Not if they oppose materialism they don't.

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's

That's why you will always be a sad shitposter wasting your life jerking off and pretending *next time* you will volunteer at a revolution that has nothing to do with your awful ideology to feel marginally less useless.

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oh leftypol

I don't know why more communists don't take advantage of Sermon on The Mount. The Catholic Church is practically turning socialist.

Jesus was a left winger if he was any political alignment. He went into the synagogues and was trolling bankers by flipping their tables over.

Sad OP could not argue for his point and resorted to name calling, he might have had a point

Is the Pope and Bernie the same guy?

Now that I think of it I've never seen them in the same room together.

Stopped reading when you suggested olivenigger religious figures

Well, excuse me for insulting someone who believes I should be obliterated, it's kinda hard to engage coldly when being met with hostility at my mere existence.

let's up the ante and create a cult worshipping the black hole in the center of milky way.

There's a reason polytheistic religions were left behind. As Greek and Roman societies grew more cosmopolitan, there was a need for more universalist religions.

The Catholic Church is bleeding followers everywhere. Places like Southern Europe and Latin America are either going secular or losing ground to evangelicals.

9

This, in LA especially there is a massive rising evangelical protestant movement.

Hopefully this will be the future of all religions.

Hopefully not though. Hopefully the religious stop deluding themselves, and realize that God was an event that took place and not the being that caused the event.

far-right independent fundamental baptist here

Progressive Christianity is an absolute abomination. They go against theology just to be "progressive". Many of the local progressive churches are wheeling out female pastors and shill for black lives matter or other cringe-tier political movements

The attitude these cunts have is absolutely insufferable. It's basically the buzzfeed equivalent of Christianity. The whole thing is a giant SJW lgbtq parade with lots of crying + Jesus.

You're absolutely worse.

...

What if I told you it's possible to be conservative doctrinally and attend a church that doesn't go against theology and yet still hold leftist views on economics? Bet that would blow your mind.

whynotboth.jpg

Sounds like modern Catholicism tbh

young christcucks are just trying to rebel and be edgy against their parents

Neck yourself

Stop believing in fairy tales.

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tell a christcuck how he's basically the ultimate larper and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I've been found out.”

...

An event isn't an object or being, but the action that takes place between multiple objects or beings. The great blackness of chaos interacted, or perhaps fused with something(s) to create matter. What did the unthinking, unblinking, unlinking void meet then?

Why should we follow the commands of your imaginary friend so religious people feel better?

bet most christian larpers are not even baptised

communism is good
christianity is stupid

Socialism is a christian denomination anyway, so it doesn't matter Christianity does.

The absolute two-faced way most US "Christians" have been the past century, the way they can rationalize or even cherry pick a "greed is good, it's God's blessing" way of interpreting the bible… it's sickening. 

People forget that comrade Jesus bashed the fash, flipping a table and chasing moneylenders out of a temple with a whip! Comrade Jesus, the original Antifa.

You're supposed to change the world for the better in all ways. This IS your kingdom, Christians! Your god is what is!

Jesus was a Socialist

Reading the bible without anyone steering you away from the pro-poor, anti-rich verses is eye-opening. Jesus believed in a strict following of the Old Testament rules, which (to my surprise) included a lot of commands and punishments when the public didn't care for their poor. For example, Ezekiel 16:49 says that Sodom was destroyed for not caring for their needy. While I am no longer a believer, I can plainly see (like anyone else) that the bible and Ayn Rand are at odds with one another, yet today's right-wing Christians hold her in higher esteem than God.

Christianity is at odds with modern US Christianity. A leftist preacher on npr pointed out that there are 3500 verses in the Bible about poverty and 3 misconstrued verses about homosexuality. They lost their way.

Acts 5:1-11 tbh is pure gulag the kulak

Hell must be as cold as the UK because I'm actually agreeing with fuggin afroplasm

Reminder: You can always threaten suicide rather than threatening murder.The proletariat at literally any time is capable of grinding capitalism to a halt on threat of ending the existence of the proletariat by its own hand. You do not need to murder another to end capitalism.

These spooks lad

btw I'm not knocking religion down entirely. It has some good value systems for children

o you have a link?

anyway it's impossible for jesus to be socialist because
a) the capitalist mode of production didn't exist when he was around, therefore his sentiment cannot be a critique of it and was not directed against it
b) his arguments for caring about the poor are at their core moralist, a sentiment socialists denounce.

in conclusion, jesus is not a political figure

Jesus was a communist

I was going to say before I saw it in your OP that the Catholic worker movement has Benn around for a rather long time. And the memory of Dorothy Day is still rather strong, why not just tap into that?

I mean, there were socialists that existed during and before marx's time who made moral arguments otherwise you wouldn't have had Marx disagreeing and critiquing them on this. Also, even Engels points out primitive and earlier societies which could be seen as "proto-socialist/communist".

I still don't actually know if christfag is trolling or if he's actually a christfag.

good posts

he's probably for real, never underestimate the power of spooks user

see


wrong

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Sodom's people were fundamentally corrupt. It was basically America.

the catholic church is a fucking shithole that should be wiped off the face of the earth

why any communist would like a religion/institution that has supported every fascist movement since mussolini is beyond me

Yes I noticed this too. It's embarrassing.
Um.. why?

should join the based protestant gang, cath is for reactionaries plus its got pedo priests

Christfags out

Literally objectively wrong, that's fallacious "Hitler's pope" tier memery, the only movement that was actively supported was Franco, because of the persecution of the Church, and even then the Church served as inner opposition, defending human and economic rights.

The Vatican emitted papal bulls against Hitler, the Kremlin emitted treaties.


Because we must get as close to the truth as possible, as Christians we have to have something solid as a testament of how our beliefs translate into reality, without being just a sponsorship of a secular ideology that will die in a couple of decades.


no

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The Chad Church Father vs. The virgin 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧Anglo🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 schismatic

the Ustashe, Tiso's Slovak State, Degrelle's Rexism, Dolfuss' Austrofascism and to a lesser degree Salazar's Portugal were all in bed with the fascist Catholic Church.

Socialism at it's heart is moralism.The works by Marx has strong theological undercurrents of compassion.
If you want anti-moralism then Nietzsche is the philosophy for that.

read bakunin

succdems are moralists, marx wasn't by any stretch of the imagination

Returning the surplus of profits from labor to the wage labourer reeks of traditional morality.

Why would that be bad?

Why isn't it moralism to empower the heroic disenfranchised proletariat from the oppressive bourgeoisie?

*awkwardly mumbles something about Marxism being a science*

The pope and the catholic church were among the earliest supporters of fascism in Italy too.

traditional morality posits poverty as virtuous

flig :DDD

Only had support from the local church, Vatican told Stepinac multiple times to stop collaborating with them. I won't defend the actions afterword taken by some members in assisting those seeking asylum, those actions actually caused huge schisms in the inner church.
Catholic church protested harshly against his actions, to which the government responded in defiance in an equally harsh manner claiming that no "foreign intervention" would stop them from Slovakian "liberation". The church actually were the ones to stop the jewish deportations by presenting information that the Germans were killing them.
Even the belgian catholic church didn't like these guys, your forgetting that there was already a moderate Catholic Party at the time.
Only Catholic in the sense they expoused being "catholic". The church grouped them with the Nazi's. They didn't exist very long to be notable in any case.
Salazar's catholicism was more social then political, he didn't really engage with the Vatican

Not exactly, the church had its own parties which it backed. Only when Mussolini seized control was the church forced to capitulate or be seized.

I don't play apologetics in instances the church did things which were blatantly wrong like the Cathars, but these aren't what you claim them to be

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This could be handled by a question of emphasis of the being of moralism or existence of moralism. Is it derived from existence, and a philosophy based on a subject? Or rather, do humun beings pick up morals, ask about morals and discuss morals rejecting a distinction between the moralistic thinking man and his objective exterior world?

Indeed how could we differentiate between whether traditional morals of gratitude towards ones poverty remains the paradigm or whether in fact empowering the proletariat has always been the real moral paradigm (or even the new one)? It seems as if moralism has no concrete value system, and appears in the most odd of places.

The Vatican told Stepinac to stop collaborating with the Ustashe multiple times and directly instructed him to "take care of the problem". I will not defend the actions taken by some members in assisting in smuggling and granting asylum to collaborators however, those actions caused huge divisions within the inner church and remain controversial.
The Vatican protested against Tiso harshly, to which the government responded equally as harshly by stating that no "foreign intervention" would stop them in their mission for Slovakian "liberation". The catholic church actually help stop the jewish deportations by presenting information to Tiso revealing that the germans were executing them which caused him to hesitate.
Not even the belgian catholic church liked these guys and regarded them as a threat, you have to remember there already existed a church backed moderate Catholic Party.
Only catholic in the sense that they said they were catholic and used its iconography, the catholic church and the vatican grouped them together with the Nazi's whom they already rejected.
Salazar's catholicism was more social then political, he did not interact very much with the Vatican

Not really, the church already had its own seperate parties at the time which varied from conservative to liberal (different members supported different things). The church only capitulated when Mussolini took control and they were forced to comply or be seized.

I don't play apologetics for the Church in regard to things it did which were actually its fault and were wrong like the Cathars, but nothing you mentioned was actually the main church supporting fascism. Could it have done more then write letters and protests? Yes, but that doesn't equal propping up fascist governments.
I have no idea how I deleted my last post, hopefully this was similar

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no they werent
the church tried to play mediator between Mussolini and the reds until communists started doing what the anarchists did in spain i.e attacking churches and raping nuns/murdering priests

Rise and shine Holla Forums today is the Sabbath.

If you or your family goes to Church today remind them that Jesus kicked the money lenders out of the temple, was disgusted by Pharisees (like Turning Point and Pat Robertson) and implemented pure communism when he returned from the dead.

Comrade Jesus – the original antifa

God bless you all

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The virgin catholic vs the CHAD SOUTHERN BAPTIST

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fuck your shitty wall of text mate.

That's Protestantism, you imbecile.
There is a reason Nietzsche preferred Catholicism.
Although, who cares? He is stupid.

Nothing wrong with attacking churches and killing priests.

this is why we can't join the "revolution"

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t. christ"coms"

kek

...

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To say a clergy member owning land and having people work on it makes him a bourgeoisie or petty-bourgeoisie is correct. To say a clergy member is a bourgeoise or petty bourgeoisie out by being a clergy member however is incorrect and would assume every preacher or deacon acting in or chosen by a community is now a class. I never objected to land reforms or taking land from actual bourgeoisie, just the point of clergy being a class. If a community decides to have a church somewhere which they can share and engage in together, I see no problem.

No.

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That's Protestantism.
There's a reason Nietzsche preferred Catholicism.
Nietzsche is stupid anyways.

Democracy is stupid; secularism is Christian stupidity.

Are you implying there wouldn't be?

Post Vatican II Catholicism is indistinguishable from Protestantism then.

I know what I'm talking about, I was raised Catholic. Modern Catholicism is but a shadow of what it was on Nietzsche's time.


On this we agree.

No. There can be no tolerance for religion in a democracy.

How idealist of you.

How about no.

As was I.
Folk Catholicism is obnoxious, but it is ridiculous to claim its sameness with Protestantism.

You can't be a revolutionary in the political sphere and a reformist in the religious one.

This thread is still going on. Fucking kill it.