/ddr/ -- East Germany General

Wow look a whole total of Zero fucking arguments!
Are you the same stalin that called Dubcek an Czechoslovakia NATO Agents?

Economic and politcal orgs like Cominform Warsaw etc were basically hand tailored to allow soviet influence over these nations economically and Militarily
But it did not just do that it destroyed afghanistans socialist gov

great non arguments, retarded little cuckboy

Can you tell me how all nations in the Warsaw pact were not completely under the thumb of the USSR? Both Militarily and economically?

loaded questions are not arguments
you deliver nothing of substance, this is nothing but pathetic anti-soviet accusations
besides a total lack on theory and understanding of what imperialism even is

and still the same quality of rhetoric as from western germans or maoists
get the fuck out >>>/leftpol/

I believe that imperialism is when a Nation state Militarily economically and so on manipulates another nation state to serve its own interests

How about just explaining to me how the Warsaw pact were not puppets of the soviet union?
Also

I would like them better if it turned out to be true the Stasi killed people.

Read up on the KPD/ML if you want to know just why the East German state was a social imperialist colony of the USSR and why it was a revisionist regime which had abandoned the ideas of Stalin, Lenin, Marx and Engels and descended into Khrushevism, the Stasi arrested multiple KPD/ML members which were against the revisionist police state line of the SED and the GDR, this isn't to say the FRG is any better though, the goal would be a united Marxist-Leninist nationalist anti revisionist Germany, the GDR however was FAR superior to the FRG even though it was essentially a police state, the reunification was not a good thing and caused economic disaster for Easterners and because of that a lot of Easterners vote more for the AFD and Die Linke, there a lot more radicals in the East, mainly Nationalist closed borders types but also socialist Marxist types at the same time, often there are both in one person.
Read more on the KPD/ML and revisionist treachery in the GDR. woodsmokeblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/09/the-communist-resistance-in-east-germany/
This isn't to say the GDR was worse than the FRG however, the GDR in economic development destroys the FRG.

The ones who became Trots right away after Hoxha died? No, thanks.

god hoxha was fucking stupid

Why? It’s not like any of the African “socialist” states and struggles of the 70s-80s turned out to be worth a damn. None of them turned into actual socialist states including the most successful Soviet-aligned state of all—Angola.

Bunch of Maoist idiots who wanted to destroy a socialist state instead of working on it

pick one.

oh never mind that was another sub-split, Roter Oktober, i was thinking of
hmm… "soviet imperialism" crying scum that pretends to oppose each other and still find birth in the same sectarian groups
must be pure coincidence

i think the ventilation to your bunker is depriving you of oxygen

How come you can never do anything but screech angrily like a mentally-ill teenager?

what the fuck is even… it's been a while since last time i read up on them, there was even a time i was quite invested, but i didn't put all this together before

well, whatever the fuck they were and further devolved into, there was not a trace of ML in any of that steaming pile of shit
promoting this is an utter joke

wow, you really got me in a corner there faggot

if you find anything by Kurt Gossweiler in english, that's one of the best sources you can find

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Don't you mean Infanticide?

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Stalin mustache poster is well known to be the most irritable Autist motherfucker's on this board

"Then, shifting the conversation to political matters, he declared: 'You removed Stalin and Khrushchev, and tomorrow you'll get rid of Brezhnev. The Czechs would be better off doing business with the West than with the Soviet Union. The Soviet people have us by the neck. It would be better if the Germans had destroyed half of Prague than for you to come with your tanks into the capital of Czechoslovakia. You Communists are worse than the imperialists.

During the check of documents at the border crossing, it was established that this individual was the CSSR Consul-General in Kyiv, Josef Gorak, who was traveling from the Soviet Union to the CSSR on diplomatic passport No. 004842.'

digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/112160

I really wonder why the Soviet Union would invade them, especially after the Hungarian Revolution, where the main leaders of the "revolution" literally wanted direct NATO support and a possible fucking world war to happen.

They weren't economic colonies either. The only one-sided economic transaction that happened between the Warsaw Pact and the USSR was reparations, and that was with Germany for obvious and good reasons. Speaking of colonies, Afghanistan asked for Soviet help, dipshit.

"The reserved attitude of the people and part of the Czechoslovak Peoples Armed Forces' officers towards the Allied Armed Forces has slowly been changing. Individual groups of citizens, who gather in front of the Commandant's offices and talk to our officers, have started to agree with and approve of our actions. Contacts with workers and old communists who express readiness to co-operate in exposing the counter-revolutionary elements in the enterprises and offices have become more frequent. There have been cases of communists from the [nearby] factories and officers from the Czechoslovak Armed Forces seeking contact with our units. Indicative of the latter are the greetings for the Bulgarian Peoples Armed Forces holiday from the Commanders of 49th Artillery Regiment – town of BREZNO and the Company Commander to State Security Committee in GRONSEK (10 km south of BANSKA BYSTRICE). On 20 September Major Kubinek Anton and his Deputy Political Commander Capt. Libov Kula came in person in the Commandant's office in BANSKA BYSTRICE. They stated that they fully supported our troops' arrival and admitted that there was a counter-revolution in CSSR. Their greeting reads: “… You arrived in our country on time to defend the achievements of our working class, achievements that have been acquired with the help of the glorious Soviet Army. Together with the Western reaction, the internal reaction has recently taken upon a struggle to liquidate the leading role of the Communist Party in our country. We know very well why they do that. We are aware that we cannot find a better place to live than within the great Slav family and the great socialist states family.”

They asked us not to publish this letter in the press, which shows that they are still afraid of the counter-revolutionary elements within the Army."

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I'm ML but I absolutely love watching threads where stalinstache goes into autistic tantrums

This graph is bullshit. Firstly, it makes it seem, as if both countries started at the same place with heightening the bars to the same level, although the GDR had only half the BIP of West-Germany. I also can't find any traces of the percentage numbers presented in the actual source, which in it of itself seems pretty unreliable. Just link the original. I don't understand why you would fake these numbers when the actual numbers are also showing that the GDR had a higher BIP growth (although it seems as if there were also other factors influencing that)

Fuck off, Gerhard Heske was in charge of statistics for economic planning in the DDR and the BRD, his statistics are even featured in the mainstream media, but also on the German government program for polticial education. Sources:
zeit.de/wirtschaft/2009-11/gerhard-heske-ddr
m.bpb.de/nachschlagen/zahlen-und-fakten/deutschland-in-daten/219861/moeglichkeiten-und-grenzen-des-vergleichs
The graph is 100% correct and backed up by data although making the left one higher is obviously a visual trick but the numbers are correct, as the German government itself admits.
Not everybody speaks German dude
Such as?

of course you are, faggot

still waiting on those sources for the USSR imperialist exploitation
but i guess faggots crying "autism" over being mocked for their utterly retarded hoxhaite-maoist anti-soviet "propaganda" (shitting out claims that got jack shit to do with ML theory) is all i'll get
in a fucking thread about the GDR

i'd be "irritated" too if i was a dumb bitch talking shit and expecting applause but getting dickslapped to the face instead, crying about "lack of arguments" after posting dumb shit, completely void of arguments

but mainly because i don't do dumb shit like that, so i can hardly relate to you dumbass faggot

Didn't Trotsky himself accuse people of revisionism?
marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1928/3rd/ti02.htm

I'm not arguing anything except that your posts are hilarious, autistic child

why did the soviets insist on reparations? surely they knew it would gimp over the gdr in the long run

yeah ok, kill yourself retard

I'm trying to transcribe some DDR songs that are without any lyrics available online. The current song I'm working on is this: youtu.be/jJrVDf2pKkI

Any Krauts lurking here think they can make out what the singer is saying around 1:35? It's just the part that comes after "Keine Mühe ist…" that's tripping me up. It sounds like he might be saying "packt an" or maybe "Kart kann" in another version I've heard, but those don't make much sense.

Plz tell me hes gone for good

and so the most obvious cointel/pol/ shitposter dies as he lived

I'm a German Marxist-Leninist and I have mixed feelings about the GDR. There are problems with it, which many Marxist-Leninists are willing to look over because it was quite successful and culturally open in terms of providing for it's citizens, but it's far from being better than other socialist states.

There are three phases of the GDR, and the first one is from 1949-1963, which is basically Stalinist productivism. It was surely socialist in that phase, and quite successful as well. They were able to rebuild it from the war and to pay off the reparations to the USSR while never getting the Marshall Plan treatment of the West. However, there was a lack of innovation and increase of productivity in the enterprises which mirrored the situation in the USSR so they tried the so-called NÖS (''Neues Ökonomisches System) in 1963.

It's important to know that the NÖS was basically market "socialism", which means state capitalism, however, it was designed as a transitional phase to achieve highest levels of productivity. Enterprises produced their own surplus value which they could spend how they saw fit, but at the same time, cybernetics was heavily promoted. The goal was to automate and computerize production, which resulted in hi-tech standards established in the industry, economic growth, increased productivity, the workday was reduced, and sci-fi movies were produced that influenced Star Trek (Der Schweigende Stern actually had a higher production value than Star Trek TOS). This was probably the happiest time of the GDR, pioneer spirit was found everywhere, huge planned cities for workers were build with agreeable architecture that looked nothing like your typical "commie block" - I've attached pictures of examples of planned worker cities. Was quite comfy. The NÖS however led to a more archaic production, it interfered more and more with the state plan, and the "solution" was to increase the quotas of the enterprises, because the economy couldn't keep up with its own boom. Apartments had to be built quicker, consumer items needed to be in abundance, etc. which resulted in low quality production. Commie blocks started to pop up. To regain control over the economy, the SED modified the NÖS into the ÖSS (Ökonomisches System des Sozialismus). It basically was the same thing except the plan now favored so-called "progressive industries" and transfered authority in enterprises from the committees back to the FDGB (all-union). The ÖSS was just as ambitioned as the NÖS, but required more and more amounts of energy and material abundance to actually work. The best thing about it was the founding of an Academy of Marxist-Leninist Organizational Science (AMLO) in 1969, where they tried to develop more cybernetics and systematic heuristics to rationalize economic planning.

However, after Brezhnev cut the oil imports, the ÖSS was doomed. It was impossible to maintain a state plan over progressive industries and at the same time expect independent cooperatives to deliver the quotas. The guy who came up with the ÖSS literally off'ed himself with his gun once this was clear. Honecker then introduced the Einheit von Wirtschafts- und Sozialpolitik (Unity of Economic and Social Policy) which was a return to the fully planned economy, but revisionist in its own way. Basically, to keep the population satisfied, consumer goods became the main focus, which is contrary to all other Marxist-Leninist states. This did increase living quality quite a bit, but led to the negligance of infrastructure, therefore you can see all these horror pictures of potholes and dirty house fronts they took after the reunification. Secondly, this was mostly financed by commodity production designed for export, the GDR become one of the biggest producers of IKEA furniture in Europe - so much for real existing socialism. And lastly, this was all financed by foreign loans, so debt was accumulating and the Damocles sword of bankruptcy was dangling over the state. At least we saw the whole thing going down in a dumpsterfire before the leadership sold stocks to foreign investors when they couldn't get any more loans or some other shit. They were also lying people in the face about the economic numbers, and the open revisionism allowed traitors who should have all been purged like Alexander Schalck-Golodkowski into responsible positions who got himself a nice house at Tegernsee in the Bavarian alpes after 1991.

So yeah, there were some good aspects, but I see the GDR rather critically, was it salvagable? If there was a German Andropov who somehow managed to get the debt erased and who actually lived a decade, then yes. It wasn't unproductive, like the bourgois shit slinging machine claims, but it was badly managed.

Never reply to the Stalinposter. He's on here for the sole purpose of baiting and acting like he "debunks" statements without ever giving a single argument. Don't waste time on the retard

Quick everybody let's have constructive discussions while he's gone
Seriously though, the absence of stalinposter is literally one of the biggest reasons to prefer /leftpol/ to Holla Forums

unironically, the stalinstache poster was right this time
there was literally no Soviet imperialism before 1956

Stalinposter seemed to claim that there was nothing imperialist about the examples given by either

sehr guter beitrag. ich sehe das ganz ähnlich. hättest aber ruhig erwähnen können, daß moskau gerne mal kosten auf die ddr abwälzte, z.b. im zuge der ölkrise, woraus sich diverse schwierigkeiten für den fiskus ergaben. und die schuldensituation war 1989 nicht so dramatisch, wie du es darstellst, wenn ich mich recht erinnere hat das schürer-papier die situation durchaus prekärer dargestellt, als sie war. die ddr war in absehbarer zukunft nicht von pleite bedroht.

Now if there were any sources to verify that it was the ÖSS that was "more market socialist" and the "Einheit von Wirtschafts- und Sozialpolitik" that had "fully planning" (that's not how things work but let's just go with that), and not the other way around, that'd be something.

"Keine Mühe ist vertan" (No effort is being wasted)

You see, the "market reforms" in the USSR did exactly this too… building up the "profitable" light industry.
So, maybe, just "maybe", you are mistaken on which policy was market oriented. Don't you think?

suck on that Stalin dick

there was none later either
shit revisionist leadership doesn't make socialism into imperialism just because "stalin is dead and someone said mean things about him in a speech"
and it doesn't make worse leaders like dubcek "victims" of "soviet imperialism" either
hoxhaites and maoists are retarded dumbfucks

You're trying to provoke people and be agressive for no reason all the time. Everyone on this board is tired of that.
Also, link the post where you yourself supposedly gave an "argument" other than "muh ebil revisionist shills!!! i won't address your point in any way bcuz it's SDUPID REVISIONISM x-D"

The policy in the USSR, Kosgyn reforms etc., was quite different than the NÖS which was its own beast. Also, it was supposed to increase abundance of consumer goods, I don't actually now if the Kosgyn reforms actually delivered, considering they were scrapped later.

I don't know why you see a contradiction between focusing on consumer goods and central planning. Those things are not exclusive.

As for your question of sources, here is one:

Further:
leibnizsozietaet.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/06-Koziolek.pdf

If that's not market socialism/state capitalism then I don't know what is

i'm tired of certain people on this board not adressing arguments and neither having any by themself
even when requested arguments and sources are not provided
"it was imperialism because tanks and big economy!"

spare me your meme spouting bullshit you retarded little child
i'm namecalling because franky you are not worth putting more effort into posts than pointing out the lack of arguments, contradictions and initial facts to counter your dumbassery
Holla Forums is for shitposting, there is no quality input besides mine

the shifted focus from heavy to light industry is just an indicator because i cannot even bother to go back and quote Stalin or Politische Ökonomie des Sozialismus und dessen Anwendung in der DDR at you
but thanks for the 1996 bourgeoise analysis of how the GDR was organized

I don't have a specific problem with that, but what I'm saying is that the NÖS was successful as in being a transitional phase in the beginning but ultimately failed in delivering what it was supposed to deliver. I said it had good sides as well, like the cybernetics program, the systematic heuristics and the automatization. But it was capitalist, and therefore volatile and interfered with the state plan. I just had a look at the economic growth of Albania and the DPRK, both countries which didn't have a single bit of revisionism, and they both had constant economic growth until Albania started its isolation autism and DPRK its Songun policy. So I don't see why you would need to do what the NÖS effectively did.

It's also retarded to try to compete with the consumer item abundance of West Germany. West Germany had a head start, foreign investment, oil supply, and imperialism (West Germany literally came up with NAFTA style free trade agreements in Africa). For the long-term, infrastructural investment and progressive industry would have been a more long-term focus

How is the Leibniz-Sozietät bourgeoisie? It sounds pretty honest to me, it even argues in Marxist terms, and uses primary sources.

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I already made a thread about this.
Stop being an authortiarian shitter.

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I recommend anyone to watch this vid Endymion (a marxist youtuber) from just a month ago, and also to read the work he talks about :
youtube.com/watch?v=QUr_HVsyIZQ
It gives an explanation by the Socialist goverment on why the wall was built (pretty objective and fair IMO)