So what now comrades?

So what now comrades?
Mice are given the ultimate marxist utopia and it became a hellscape, a hellscape of which none of the population could recover…

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Good thing humans aren't mice. Also proves that in the end all fascists are misanthropes who deserve to be murdered savagely.

Sir, I think I found the problem good thing mouse brain chemistry isnt comparable …. oh.. wait

Controversy exists over the implications of the experiment. Psychologist Jonathan Freedman's experiment recruited high school and university students to carry out a series of experiments that measured the effects of density on behavior. He measured their stress, discomfort, aggression, competitiveness, and general unpleasantness. He declared to have found no appreciable negative effects in 1975."

it wasn't in the same conditions over the same time frame…
So no. You can't compare a couple of days or weeks in a crowded space to multiple generations of people.


OP, did you bother to even read this article? The problems resulted from overcrowding. High population densities would cause problems in any society, regardless of it's mode of production

Also, you're an idiot. Mice aren't people, even if brain chemistry is similar.

Wow it's fucking nothing

Ignoring the mice were given literally everything they needed, fell into disarray even though they require far less mental stimulation.
That nervous feeling creeping up on you is natural.

Personal space is important too. If anything, the experiment reinforces the ideas that it's not only human that are products of their material conditions, and that change is nature.

Obviously, they weren't. They were packed into a tight area. And even other people within his same field say it wasn't even about population density, but the degrees to which mice socially interact with one another that's not comparable to primates or human beings.

So you have to pick favorites here

And here the fascist tries to justify some sort of biological need for "struggle" (which is somehow provided by capitalism even though those who make the decisions certainly do not struggle.) The fascist feels fear because he knows his time is limited. He is right to be afraid.

Shooing this wont make the implications go away

Do people normally just starve their mice?

Facist? Haha no.

Disagreement is disagreement by people in a field of medicine. I'm sorry.

You're right, you're a rat

The experiment was very flawed cause the creator made all the doors too narrow so the alpha mice blocked all the doorways and forced all the weak mice into the shitty parts where they were overcrowded. Also the alpha mice occasionally blocked off access to food so that along with the doorways sent the stress levels though the roof. Unfortunately for the mice they didn't have a vanguard party of Communists to overthrow the mice oppresses and redistribute the food and make equal opportunity for door access.

Also human brains aren't fucking mice brains

You will never get enough volunteers or an ethics committee to approve such an experiment with humans, anyway.

Ignoring multiple generations of decay will totally work!

Very scientific and medical terms to be used by a fucking psychologist


Wow what a good medical practitioner

I don't get the implication here. We keep primates in captivity all the time and they do fairly well.

Oh do they just?
Might want to look at the literature on that…

Nah, overcrowding can become an issue with any caged animal. Orcas don't do captivity at all.

Are you arguing something here or agreeing with me?

Explain pic related, commies! They were given everything they needed in their bulldog Utopia and yet after generations of incest behold!

If you stick a rat on the internet, will it believe itself human? Your posts give us insight

the mouse utopia experiments were concluded too early

the intention was actually to research how utopias fail, and then create one that works. he envisioned a central planner (in this case, him) that could design these cities to never succumb to the behavioral. his worry was that he saw some of these same problems appearing in modern society, but rather than going full unibomber he believed we could redesign our cities to be more livable and natural spaces

he had some success in doing this in subsequent experiments, but struggled to get attention for his research because the issue was politicized. as far as society was concerned, this confirmed all their reactionary fears about urbanism. the scientific community, meanwhile, were too afraid to touch it. the government cut his funding, shut down NIMH, and the project was abandoned


No, actually, the Mouse Utopia only reached 80% capacity before it collapsed. It was never overcrowded. There was adequate nesting material and space for nest building. There were a lot of mice, but there SHOULD have been enough space. Yet, there wasn't.

As determined by..?

You mean non sentient life collapses in on itself, especially animals that both behave differently, and have little problem solving capabilities?

Fucking woah dude

Because the doorways were too small and the alpha mice took over rooms leading to overcrowding despite there being plenty of room left in the alpha mice rooms.


Social animals don't just randomly kill each other and mice don't have spiritual needs. This was just dumb cold war era bullshit that needs to be forgotten, like so much else that western academia pumped out in its effort to support imperialism.

How do you propose the experiment was skewed?

No they didnt, they stopped breeding entirely.
Stopped interacting with each other.
All the males turned feminine and ignored the group.
All the females started ignoring the group and became uninterested in breeding
Everyone died of old age.

Yeah we all read about this on /r9k/ back in 2011 dude. Only back then it proved that feminism destroys society or something instead of communism.

haha. hey Holla Forums. watcha doin?

The fact there's so much disagreement on his methodology, implications, motivations, specificity on humanity, and loaded language, and the fact his experiments were shut down

Should tell you something about the ethics of shoving mice into enclosed spaces until they die and then using it as urban planning for humans

Bonobos, our closest living relatives, behave totally opposite to this.

I remember reading somewhere that the space was so overcrowded and unclean that the mice were literally crawling over the dead bodies of their parents to move around.

So, the females were impregnated (and subsequently aborted) by pure commie magic?

Why has the mouse utopia experiment never been repeated? Why is it that the only source we have for what happened a single paper written in the 60s on a single instance of the mouse colony?

You'd think with results so dire and foreboding, we would at least have tried to confirm what was going on.

Surely diluting your own understanding of the implications will solve that pesky reality problem, right? Right?!
The psychological results speak for themselves…

forgive them brother..

is civilized mass murder better?

Being unable to give birth is not, strictly speaking, a "psychological result." Nor is dying in childbirth. And neither one suggests that they "stopped breeding entirely."

OP is a retarded person and needs special care in a labour camp with regular beatings by metal rods and fake and not so fake executions to get his brain started, maybe he'll stop being retarded then
if not he can at least keep working and get shot for entertainment purposes



Continue to lie about the facts of the experiment. Go on. Do it.

You're about 1-2 sources away from being the best post in this thread

You mind explaining how in any way Calhoun's experiments were the "the ultimate marxist utopia"? The mice are not engaging in any form of production or creative labor (because their mice, not humans), they are being provided all their resources from an outside source of whose production they are not linked to, they are confined to a limited area in which larger mice are able to seize the limited doorways and block off the remaining mice, the mice cannot coordinate in a manner to engage in home construction or leave the closed area because they lack the resources to do so (and because again, their mice), and the they can't do anything other then consume and breed because, for the last time, their mice. Calhoun used rats and mice, is it now a proper rebuttal to bring up the Rat Park experiments (which were done to study drug use) in which rats were provided all the necessities and amenities (and no crowding was allowed to occur) and when given a choice of sweet drug-laced water and regular water they always chose the regular water and generally engaged in a positive manner?

This is literally what's going on in Japan right now. An ultra capitalist society.

And what is slowly appearing in the west as well, due to capitalism.

All these things are happening in Capitalist nations though. Really makes you think.

Isnt that literally modern society?

Mice aren't capable of producing French existentialists so they were consumed by the ennui.
I'm semi-serious. They're fucking mice, they have no intellectual or cultural life or whatever is there is extremely primitive. What the fuck else are they supposed to do?

Holla Forums is once again too stupid to understand the studies that supposedly prove them right.
Also that "80% capacity" figure sounds really arbitrary and poorly defined, eat a dick, OP.

Mice and rats have hierarchies that are typically resolved by mice/rats who don't fit in any social niche going away from the colony for greener pastures. The problem with the NIMN Rat Utopia is that the rays were all confined in a confined space where these social hierarchies demonstrably didn't work anymore, but we're still enforced. The downfall of the Rat Utopias always started right in the beginning, when the dominant male rats would establish a pecking order and cordon off resources and mates. This is what sent these Rat societies into a death spiral of social disorder.

You should actually look at the study beyond "lol free resources = degeneratcy xD


I literally quoted Calhoun.

Most of the christcommies on this board are angry fucks. Seriously they are pissed off and calling for executions in every thread.

Seems appropriate. I mean have you read the Bible? That shit is pretty violent.

Yeah but thats mostly old testament shit my dude. Jesus comes along and makes about forgiveness.
Then again the bible has so much different shit in it you can use it to argue just about anything.