Were anti-porn feminists leftist?

Katie is safe on this board this is a nice board

Most of the 2nd wave, bluntly, were not leftists.

They weren't feminists either :^)

Am I the only one here that realizes if you ban porn, especially in somewhere like America where prostitution is largely illegal there'll be sharp spike in cases of sexual assault?

As long as it's free and there are no ads then it's fine, sexual liberation is great, profit off sex is bad.

no socialist state / territory ever has allowed prostitution

that should say

all sex is rape under capitalism

Why get rid of porn? It stinks of some kind of reactionary moralism. The industry should be reformed, and lots of great companies are doing that, but why oppose it as a leftist? It certainly doesn't help with sexual assault to get rid of it.

All sex under capitalism is rape.

That was a reactionary mistake that should be corrected, not repeated.

what even man, how the fuck can prostitution exist without the profit motive.

justify this belief

Because everyone should only ever be reading Yuri.

so fucking true. How many people do you think would be going out and getting laid instead of looking for their next waifu? Holla Forums might not even exist.

I am, too. I still look at it, though, and I'm not happy about it.

It's the commodification of sex.

I don't think porn is the reason why we have incels.

porn is good
'corporate' porn is bad. i like amateur homemade porn.

no.

lots of otherwise 'normal' and 'conservative' couples use porn as a tool to spice up a sex life that otherwise would have caused a breakup. happens all the time. the anti porn obsession is deeply reactionary imo

I hope every pro-porn person ITT has a daughter who goes into porn. I mean since it's just like any other job it shouldn't be a problem right?

if that is what she wants, so be it. you don't get to make your kids' critical life decisions for them. unless you do/try to, in which you're probably a fucking retard and failing at it anyway

The only anti porn movement that exists today (In the UK at least) is the handful of second wavers who haven't given up. Not even the religious/conservative types care anymore, probably because they are all indulging themselves.

As Rafiq taught us. Reactionaries (redlibs) believe themselves to be living in the pre-counter culture era where transgression against religious conservatism is radical. There is nothing radical about sex positivity in an age of highly administrated pornography and general 24/7 smut. Whether it be 'political correctness', 'moralism' or 'creeping puritanism' reactionaries see these as obstacles to their individualist desires which are taken as sacrosanct. It is the Communist who must be critical of these 'desires'.

It's obviously exploitative and should be opposed
You can keep drawing titties
No one has real agency under capitalism when it comes to employment

Please reevaluate

This. They really do relish the idea that they are fighting "the man" like in their shitty movies which more or less re-enact the enlightenment.

There were plenty of anti porn feminists all the way until the 70s but they were wrong about everything with regard s to the effect porn would have on society.
Feminists thought porn would lead to men seeing women as objects and sexual assault would climb. The exact opposite happened, sexual assault declined form the 80s until now.
Men treat women way more sensitively now then in the past as well. Domestic violence, and other forms of violence against women are all way down since the 70s.
Feminists stopped their anti porn crusade because it made it too obvious that they were really trying to control and vilify male sexuality.
The exact same arguments they’re using now against sex dolls they used against porn in the 70s.

found the incel

This is basically my opinion on it. I'm not going to unnecessarily browbeat anyone for doing it in today's society (I hate the game, not the players), but I don't see how it will survive to the extent it currently is in communism.

How would changing people's sexual desires even be accomplished?

it makes it worse

same as anything else: repeated exposure + propaganda. sexual trends are hugely influenced by media; from past efforts to discourage masturbation, to the current effort to normalise and celebrate cuckoldry and interracial sex. female pubic hair is another example; 30 years ago it was the norm, not even though about, but now it's deemed exceptional and exotic

everything can be manipulated. that's what the entire "public relations" industry is for

(inb4 i get banned just for talking about this matter clinically, even though i made no value judgements about it)

Yes, it's called radical feminism.

I would argue that it's the *only* leftist feminism.
People who think that porn and prostitution will exist under communism are delusional incels.

Yes. "Sex work" is paying to rape somebody.
If they wouldn't have intercourse with you on their own terms and do it on a survival basis instead, there's no consent. It's absolutely rape.

oh please stop being such an undialectical brat

Feminism stopped their "anti-porn" crusade because with the increasing number of rich women thanks to classical feminism has turned the movement from radical to liberal

Classical feminism fought for the right of women to work and stuff, this lead to women being owners of private property, instead of just the wife of the burger dude

This, and the increasing number of money put on business like TV(realities, movies, series) has increased greatly the number of burguer woman

since Rich women own the media, they ONLY promote Liberal feminism, making radicals seem like just "too violent". Why did burguer woman did this? easy, they get profit from the explotation of the female body, porn, prostitution, surrogate gestation… with the slogan "pro-sex", liberal feminsm is just a commodity for women

feminism can't overcome capitalism, and feminism is inherently bourgeois, the only way to women liberation is through socialism and communism

you don't BAN porn
you ABOLISH it

same goes for prostitution and any kind of wage labour

There’s hours of amateur homemade porn on pornhub which literally depicts rape of people who are physically unable to consent.

Nice argument, because it help so couples which no longer sexually desires each other stay together it is justified. What’s the problem with a divorce

how are you supposed to buy that hamburger viktor

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Second wave is definitely the best feminism got imho. It was still filled with middle class liberals (like all idpol movements) but there were some genuinely anti-capitalist currents. Compared to feminism now the second wave was downright radical.

How could the porn "industry" exist without wage labour? The only porn that will be made under socialism is amateur.

Please never have children.

That is correct you bourgeois moralist faggot.

I wish all the people who are so ardently opposed to me jerking off were just as fanatical about helping me find a girlfriend.

Wage-labor is not (necessarily) slavery. Stop being undialectical.

I mean who needs doctors or engineers? Porn is vital to society after all.

Fuck you no. There'll have to be some sort of exchange of labour or resources for goods. People won't do shit without some kind of gain.

I like porn but i honesly think thats its the reason why we have such outlandish expectations for the opposite sex.

Like women constantly being shaven, big ass big dicks and tits.

And guys with chiselded abs and big dicks.

Are you retarded or you just haven't read marx?

abolish wage labour doesn't mean doing shit for free, it means you abolish the economic relationship between the worker and an employer

god i hate liberals

Why do you cherrypick this shit when for every interracial couple in the media there's 20 white/white or black/black couples? How is that brainwashing?

The real counter argument is the fact that BMWF relationships are still the least popular interracial coupling.

It doesn't really matter. The dummy that said this shit still didn't address the original argument that banning or abolishing porn/sex work will only increase sexual assault cases.

If your beef is exploitation and social programming, your issue is not with the medium or genre; it's with the way capitalism shapes medium/genre via shaping the industry. If you don't grasp this base/superstructure dynamic you are basing your positions (and worse your activity) and bad analysis.

Not to mention how many interracial couples in media have white guys

HAHAHAHAHAHA

This guy gets it

Read the book female chauvinist pigs. Raunch culture and "empowering" sex positive feminism is just a trick by the patriachy to get women to objectify themselves.

An ultimately arbitrary paradigm when it comes to the substance of something, of what it is.

wrong read engels

engels was basically the stefan molyneux of the 19th century

somebody get this hothead outta here

ONE TALER

read THIS

lol, ok. look who its in the hands of….oh wait

got me there. in actual Communist countries women were expected to stay at home and make families. western revisionism is disgusting

tl;dr your statement can be applied to anything that involves coercion. you act as though nonconsensual sex is some huge transgression even though some prostitutes make huge amounts of money way beyond the subsistence level

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I'm a French feminist. Sucks for you anglo-puritans.

What is this from? A doc about women in the USSR? I want to watch the whole thing?

Porn is sinful and depraved and needs to be banned.

Will the state pay for porn under communism?

Are you qt?

I have a HUGE problem with Porn and Sex.
I will admit it and I'm somewhat embarrassed of it.
but I just can't stop masturbating and sometimes, when I have spare money, I waste it on prostitutes.
I just can't stop.
All the fucking time, I feel horny. and think about sex.
I wish I could lower my sex drive.
but I just can't.
Porn and Sex distracts me so much, that sometimes I get lower rates in school because I spent time watching porn instead of studying.
My sleeping schedule is a disaster, because I want to keep watching porn.
I wish I could stop watching porn.

Fret not! There's a way out of this. Find an accountability partner! Parents, best friend, doesn't matter. Confess all that you've done and ask them to help keep you on track. Sign up for mental health counseling if you can. Join the NoFap community! Ask your ISP to block porn websites! I'll pray for you to get out of this addiction pirate flag poster!

Then you will have no problem with posting your tits for us

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That is the exact essence of capitalism. Without the natural coercive power of hunger and thirst, people would die if they didn't work for a wage under the current system. That is what capitalism does, it exploits natural phenomena as well as the use of force in certain political ways to maximize profits for those who are able to hold the means of production hostage in this society. If I rape, I exploit the fact that I am 1.88m tall and have a mass of around 100kg in order to implicitly threaten a woman enough to cause her to submit to my desire, or else.

But then some women are into that shit, God help them.

It is a transgression against the general community of communists, to be sure. Any act that is committed for the sake of pure enjoyment of it is implicitly fascist, because, since every act has a political dimension, and pure enjoyment means the complete aesthetization of it, the political in the act becomes aestheticized, and consequently Really impotent, since fascism is truly the pure "aesthetics of politics," a state where all the things we do become merely the reproduction of politically delusional enjoyment.

Are you under 25?

dont do this

Two of my best friends know the severity of this issue, but I have to tell my mom about this and I don't want to worry her.
I'm also addicted to benzos and I have a worse problem with those.

I'm 26 years old.

I have no problems with porn if it's done voluntarily. People can show themselves getting filthy on the internet if that's what they'd like to do. Same applies for people who draw cartoon porn. If it's done because they want to, that's fine.

Sex for money is disgusting though. Nothing against the people selling, they're just making due with what they have, and I don't blame the people buying too much either. It's just horrible that it exists.

I wouldn't support outlawing it, because that would push the industry underground. That's something you absolutely don't want in this case.

Found the butt hurt bourgeoisie feminist.
Marriage is a first and foremost economic institution under capitalism. It's used by women as a means of upward mobility for themselves and their families since the days of the Old Testament.
Men are disciplined into entering into it by withholding sexual intimacy until they do.
3rd wave feminists feared that the wide availability of porn would take the ability to disciple by withholding sexual intimacy.
They made up these hysterical claims that rape would skyrocket if porn was banned because men would rape women because fantasy and reality would be blurred for them. They said the same thing about videogames.
Third wave feminism was never radical. As you said they concerned themselves with the property rights of women. Marriage grants women a huge avenue to gaining property through marriage. Feminists feared men would reject relationships with women and not marry them and therefore close this means of property accumulation for women. Like I said THEY ARE DOING THE VERY SAME THING FOR SEX DOLLS. If you've ever actually seen or read up on what sex dolls are really like you'd laugh at the idea that they'll replace living women, but none the less you see endless hysteria from feminists about them.
I doesn't really matter the sex. The entertainment industry is consumer based. You sell movies by promoting ideas that appeal to women, like vilifying male expression s sexuality that women can't commodify like dun dun dun porn and sex dolls.
The sex of porkies doesn't really matter, male porkies would do the exact same thing, because it sells.

bourgeoisie women don't get profit from any of that. Bourgeoisie women profit from marriage.
Prostitution is illegal because way more so then sex dolls, it would give men an real alternative to dating and marriage. The porn industry is mostly based on Camwhoring now. 90% of the IP porn rights were bought up by one man and he freely distributed it to drive traffic and make money off of ads. The days of the "Porn Star" are long gone.
How do women "profit" from surrogate gestation. You call me undialetical then proceed to flail all over the place. You're just triggered that more and more people are criticizing the hypocrisy of 3rd feminism and the politics that you benefit from.

*if porn wasn't banned

No, there were leftists that are against the exploitative porn industry but amateur porn isn't explotative unless you believe in bullshit like the pol tier conspiracy theory that is the patriarchy.
I've never heard of them. It's about as silly as being anti masturbation now. The claims that feminists made about porn like how it would lead to sexual assaults couldn't have been more wrong. Turns out sexual assault rates are way more linked to things like lead in the bloodstream than skin flicks. Unsurprisingly feminists show zero interest in environmental issues like lead contamination even though they are empirically proven to be linked, because feminism was never about protecting women, it was about the material wealth that can be gained by persecuting men.
lol

t. someone who doesnt have kids
sometimes as a parent you have to teach your children that some things are wrong. and teach them WHY it's wrong instead of just that it is

tits or au revoir

why should i have power over a woman's body? let her make her own decisions

Both of you missed the point, at what point is she really an independent person in either situation? If she is doing porn, she is dependent on the producer for money, and he has power over her body, not her. Likewise, her father feeds her, and so is responsible for her.

If I am bringing home the bacon and she is dependent on me, her holes are mine, end of story. Women love to hold the fact that they make more money over a dude's head if they can, but that doesn't make them independent. True independence is when I can bend the world to my will without letting myself be violated like a woman. That is why men pimp women, and not the other way around.

Holy shit, you think? It's almost like this is a socialist board.

who is this semen demon?

This. I'd like to know too.

She's the girl who was making book reviews, and then 4chan made fun of her and then she deleted her account. Then she came back, and now looks like she's been war-tested, less lively and wearing more black.

Gee, I don't know.

Oh, I remember her now.

Ariel Levy. I find it amusing that the "patriarchy" apparently manifests itself almost entirely as a collective of university-educated women headed by a flamboyant homosexual. Reread the book, specifically concerning Levy's interview and analysis of the process in which Girls Gone Wild was founded, and who runs the entire organization.

However, I would certainly agree that sex positive feminism is detrimental to women, therefore the family unit, and therefore society as a whole.

Yet surprisingly sexual assault is in the news more than ever before.

No, it is sex labour (and doing it makes you lumpen under Marx's own terminology). Men and women who choose to do porn and prostitution could just do "regular" labour like the rest of the proles, but they choose not to.

There are of course people who are violently forced into porn and prostitution, and they are in fact raped. Just like a labourer who is physically forced to work, in stead of "just" having to work for food, is actually being enslaved.

This is your mind on sex-positive feminism

Daily reminder that the original Vagina Monologues had a bit about "good rape." This sort of thing has always been a part of "sex positive" feminism.

the only "anti porn leftists" I've ever seen have been Catholics.

nofap is the biggest meme ever

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No.
Extremely few.
We dont whine about it but embrace it.