I want leftist materialist opinions

Why should a materialist desire equality? Just like Marx, I think I am a materialist. I want stuff, really that is what I want, goods, resources, wealth since I do not believe in.. ghosts, prophecies, other worlds, destinies, whatever. So exactly like a capitalist, I desire to profit, to own things. But I dont understand the sharing aspect. Why share?

Im a materialist, so I dont not believe in stuff other than matter. If I cant poke it with a stick, I dont believe in it… so why should I believe that all humans are equal, or deserve equal amount of stuff, or have any human rights I cant poke with a stick? Why believe that the weak deserve anything? Why not take what I can take? I believe in evolution because I am a materialist so why believe that human populations, that all had different geography, different diets, different climates, different evolutionary pressures, all evolved the same? Why believe that people who had to develop different clothing, different tools, different shelters, to fight different predators and different climate, all evolved the same mental capacities??? Why believe regions that didnt select for intelligence equally, produced equally intelligent humans? Because that is all humans are to me really, genes and geography/environment over time. And even then, even in the same exact climate/region/geography, why believe that solar radiation hit the genetic molecules, and mutate everyone equally? We would all be clones of one another if this happened, but mutations clearly didnt happen to everyone equally. We all mutated different, even in the same region. And some mutated in objectively superior way, while others objectively inferior one.
Yes I can, I want to amass resources, and superior-inferior refers to the ability to do this.

And also why is exploitation illegitimate or undesirable if it helps me amass resources?

read marx

Stopped reading.
You're not a materialist. You're an idiot.

Im a working class person (atm at least) so I dont have a time for such a petty bourgy thing, to read a trillion tomes book that didnt do anyone any good. You read the thing, right? So can you explain it?
Einstein said that if you cant explain it to a 5 year old, you dont understand it yourself… but you clearly do, right?

Is your argument that equality increases your resources trough cooperation and so on? Could that basically be all there is to it?

Seriously what is a materialist argument for exploitation being bad and equality of anything being desirable to anyone?

You clearly do not give a shit about the people around you. That's fine, but then don't cry when a thousand hungry people kill you with hammers and sickles and take your shit. The weak should fear the strong am I right?

Self interest. If you like being exploited then stay classcucked. Most of us do not enjoy it.

Oh? So you think the poor are strong? Is that it? You think the drunk and illiterate mob of workers, that could all be flattened to the ground by one artillery officer in an event of any uprising, is strong? That is it? You think that all these people, who own zero nuclear weapons, or any sophisticated weapons of any kind, have claims and rights in this world, based on the strength of their weapons?

All the poor and the exploited can be wiped out with a single virus/disease for all I care. Any high caliber medical scientist with the ability to produce a vaccine for it would be in the camp of the people releasing the disease because why the fuck would anyone side with the hungry manual laborers?

Impoverished and malnourished arent that great of the fighters, and using stone age tools doesnt really make you that smart/effective at using your strength in the first place so I really dont understand your argument.

I understand the argument from strength, it is the materialist argument, but 1 missile is stronger than all the working class of the whole planet, combined and multiplied!
The few who can develop the missile, have no reason to side with the many who cant.

But what can you do about it? The exploited are exploited because they are stupid and weak. If they werent, they would be doing the exploiting. So I dont understand your point.

So you're weak?

Weak people want leftism. Are you new here op? If you have means to remain stronger than everyone else you can just oppress them for all I care.

Exploited are exploited because they don't have CAPITAL, hence the name. Sure, you can be pretty successful and strong by your own virtue after a small loan of million dollars.

Well yeah, at the moment, but I dont understand how is that relevant to what we are discussing.. I believe that under capitalism, which is what the strong want, I'll be able to prove myself to them, I believe they will give me my one shot to prove my strength to them by acquiring a phd in a relevant field of strength, such as missile technology or I dont know, and if I prove myself I will join the strong at the pentagon or where ever they will have me, and if not, I will die in absolute misery and poverty, and rightly so, more likely by cops then old age knowing myself. That is my world view.

From a materialist perspective, the working class is weak, and is getting weaker by the minute and will be all exterminated as soon as automation hits.
Good luck fighting missile strikes with hammers, I know what group I want to be part of.

Christ man, you sound like you worship these frauds as Gods for getting to the top. If being judged favourably by the lordy lords of pentagon is the highest thing you can strive for, then I just hope you're as stupid as you make it out to be here, and that you will indeed get killed by another bootlicking cop.
Stop worshipping these lunatics ffs.

But how is having a bad start in life an argument to a materialist? From materialist perspective, if you are born in oppression and poverty you cant defeat with your own strength, you should just kill yourself.


But why? They have all the real power. Im a materialist, I do not believe in.. moth eaten scrolls, and I do not worship idols such as ballot boxes. I believe in material stuff. Such as missiles. And people who can launch them.
Sure maybe I am wrong, maybe its not the pentagon, but you get what I mean.

From a materialist perspective, why not worship these people?

Why does it matter that people who do not have a say dont like something?


seriously if the workers cant even compete in the market, why would they be able to compete on a battlefield?? so leftist materialists think that workers are stronger than the missile launching capitalists?

glad to know this now

Read a book

There is not an argument, materialist or otherwise. "Read a book" is quite literally not an argument, lmao.

Poverty is subjective, even if you do not consider yourself poor, you are still getting exploited. What is objective is INHERENT in the capitalistic system oppression of those who do not own the means of production.

And you are not going to own means of production without CAPITAL in such a system.

Why would those be related?
Also man, your argument is generally just retarded. This is not about fighting pentagon's missiles. If you think they can just fire missiles into the general population, you're fucking deluded. Modern warfare has many layers, especially internal strife.
Just watch any "demonstrators vs police" fight, and you'll notice that neither of them actually aim to seriously hurt the opponent.

That's not what materialism means in the philosophical or Marxist sense.

And why should the weak own anything, let alone mop? Increasingly, western workforce is just a whole bunch of fucking office retards and dishwasher/service industry absolute unessential, uneducated, unskilled, WEAK mass of sewage.
The masses only care for…… sports, and fashion, and what some retarded celebrity said to another retarded celebrity. These people will NEVER build a missile silo. These people will NEVER launch anything into orbit. These people will NEVER do or work anything important.

I am pretty sure the actual elites, you know, the industrial capitalists and so on, not the fucking fashion and sportstar rich, will pretty soon be in position to eliminate everyone else, in one go.

The military for example, will ask itself "why should we risk our lives for the worthless civilians? We have all the guns, why are we even considering what civilian population wants in the first place?" and so on, and I am convinced that pretty soon, only the military industrial captains will remain.

What are the masses going to do about it? Cry "muh human rights"? Protest impotently and without any artillery? Shout that they dont like it?

Sounds like the capitalists to me.

Your boss probably has more education and Autism Level than you, but that doesnt matter. What matters is that 'the workers' (as if there is such an united group of people, what wont engage in cannibalism among themselves) are weak.

99% of the actual work gets done by the machines, and you pretty much only need few engineers and technicians to keep it going. Everyone else is on some retarded welfare tier job, that is there just to keep the status quo for a few more minutes, until they can get rid of basically almost everyone in society.

By 'they', I dont mean the capitalists. By 'they', I simple mean military officers, scientists, and engineers who can actually build and use orbital weapon platforms. And this is what matters in the materialist world view. Orbital weapon platforms. Not human rights, because those dont exist and doesnt stop artillery shells, not equality, because that doesnt exist and also doesnt stop artillery shells, not any of the bullshit modern left wants either.

Are you still pretending you are making materialistic argument?


If you are really a materialist you should know we lack free will and that there is no real merit in becoming wealthy as it is beyond your control. Being a materialist and beliving in a meritocracy is the apex of gambling.

You have nothing to back you up besides speculation on power levels.



I am not claiming that capitalism is perfect or that it has it all figured out. All I am saying is, 99% of the people living in the west, who are poor, deserved their poverty. That is all.
Want to solve poverty? Genocide the poor! No one would even know the difference if they werent here, in fact one can argue life would be better for those who remain.

If you arent in the higher bit of the 6 digits paycheck, you dont have any valuable skill, your labor is worthless, and you are simply not worth having around. That is all that I am saying. There is too many people out there anyway.

People who can make missiles and other strategic weapons have an existential interest to get rid of people who have no strategic value, and people who have no strategic value cant do shit. If they could do anything, they would have some strategic value, but as we all know, common worker of today has none!

casually forgetting that scientist are working class, and that all militery and scientific activities require a massive infrastructure sustained by guess who? why do you think bourgeoisie loose their shit over strikes?

This whole weak/strong dinamic is bullshit and not materialistic you are just misticizing people in power. If staying on top is the condition that determines strenght, then the day the rulling class gets toppled they are not strong anymore. beliving they are undefeatable is delusional and not materialistic

This is whole new level of classcuckoldry.

You are living an absolute delusion if you think that the labour of people who don't have a 6 digits pay-check is worthless. I mean if it was, no one would pay for it to be done. Basic economics.

Also, committing a genocide against the poor is also not an economically viable solution for the people up top because it's literally our labour that creates the surplus for them to be and stay at the top. I'll assume for your sake that you meant to say we need to kill a large percentage of the poor, but even that is still a retarded solution (slightly less retarded than the solution you proposed however) because wages for welfare-tier work as you put it are low because the reserve army of labour exists. Without this reserve army wages would sky-rocket. Basic economics 101.

So you think that the true elites need your consent to remove you? Also, why would the scientists (that matter, not social fucking scientists, or university/academia welfare cases who couldnt even make it in the private sector) side with the working class? Why would a guy who can cure a weaponized virus cure the current working class, when the elites could offer him a whole fucking country as his own private property, with gps navigated tractors and whatnot, after the cleanse? Why would such a man side with the working class?
And lastly, military infrastructure is wholly independent of.. street sweepers, shop clerks, and art degree waiters at fast food places.

Most of the bourgeoisie would be removed as well, people who lose their shit over strikes arent the people I am talking about.

ITT: Poor user's masturbation fantasies of the day he becomes rich and kills all poor people because he is smarter than all the other rich people who haven't done it yet.

Pretty much.

What you keep forgetting is the non-profit, political goal I am talking about here, and political economy doesnt work on basic economics. Also no, the people I am talking about do not depend on you cleaning dishes, or whatever you do. Most of the poverty jobs are there to just perpetuate poverty of the people working them. The elites I am talking about will do perfectly fine without the pizza shop other poor people use.

The elites I am talking about, already take satellite pictures of the farms, have an algorithm sort out which fields need watering and fertilizing, and after that an unmanned drone flies off spraying the water. They do not depend on whatever the fuck you do. Or what any other person without a phd in… plasma research does.

You seem to be confusing the elites I am trying to define, with just more unessential, worthless tier landlords and business owners that would be cleansed by the same missile the unessential, worthless poor wage laborers will.

Yeah, and you seem to think some secret illuminati with a world domination agenda is rulling the world.
Your analysis of society is absolute garbage to say the least.







OP realized he ran out of bullshit to spew so it's time for some ebin gommie triggering videos.
Never change, Holla Forums.






never said that.
Maybe because most people are not autistic and willing to commit genocide out of the blue, especially the smart ones who understand the intricaicies of our system and don't think: poor people are useless.
Destroy most of civilization and earn an empty patch of dirt with no one to sustain it, what a deal!
Who the fuck do you think is paying the taxes and is gathering the resouces to sustain the military, and on top of that who is sustaining the people who are needed to sustain them? Your level of abstraction is laughable, with this type of logic you are dying poor with the rest of s boy.

Who is gonna build, mantain, refuel, gather resources to sustain and build your drones?Fine tech is needed for post scarcity automation, all the while more infrastructure is needed to sustain fine tech a paradox really.

Is this the true power of the ubermensch?! we are doomed!

this is op, im not spamming with webms its some other guy

anyway yes i seriously believe that there is this "illuminaty" type group out there, and that when the time is right, they will create a quasi terrorist organization, the first of its kind, a terrorist organization that own nukes
and all the people in charge of stopping this terrorist organization, will be the members

the poor deserve their poverty, the poor are stupid and weak, this terrorist organization will not need their services or existence, and anyone able to cure a plague or knock a missile out of the sky will join up and redistribute the planet after the materialistically unworthy people are removed from it

that is all and thank you for reading, im looking forward to talk with people about this

Some materialist you turned out to be then, believing in an idea that's unsupported by any material evidence. The poor are still needed user, and until they're not this belief is unfounded and a garbage-tier analysis of society.

Holy shit lmfao this is kantbot. I didn’t realize he was actually insane

I am not the guy spamming webms. My webms are relevant to the discussion. Please watch my webms and tell me again the poor are needed by the elites I mention.

Society would still need a working class to reproduce itself and the reserve army of labor (poor people) would still be an essential mechanism to discipline the working class.

watch the webms in the post above yours and tell me WHY would anyone need the working class

Because robots don't spring forth from the void. Human labor is required to produce them.

who builds, mantains and powers those machines? we still cant do self replicating robots at this level nor generalist ones

For mining the resources for, maintaining and building the robots.
And still, plenty of labour is needed after the fact.
And please tell me, how are the people in power supposed to stay in power if their businesses don't make a profit because no one has any money to buy their shit?

That's what UBI is for comrade.

Yes. But OP seems to think that the reptiles will kill us once they can produce crab meat without labourers.

how will we ever recover!?

Holla Forums on suicide watch

wtf i love being a classcuck now

I think my crab and fingers webm clearly demonstrates that you do not need human labor anymore?
The robot will do x, the robot will supply itself, mine for itself, etc etc et fucking c. The first robot is already built. The human labor for it already got done.

Its so weird to see you communists go full market value/consumerism when I mention robots?
Jesus Christ, the new elite wont need the fucking money, nor would they need the consumers, nor would they need the poor. They will simply consume everything automation makes themselves. The robots will work for them. There. There you go. There you have it.

You people are clinically retarded I swear.

Seriously dude, why the fuck don't they just build a mansion full of robots and go live there then?
Your view of how the world works is Holla Forums tier. Spend a few weeks lurking this board, then try again.

So what you're saying is that the rich will produce for use and no longer need money?

how spooky

You realize that an automated economy would still result in the end of capitalism…….right?

Not if it's still producing for exchange fam.

It doesnt fucking matter. I dont care for capitalism. The communism might even happen, but it will not be the working class who will see it. That is my point. The working class will be exterminated by the new, military-automation class that will emerge and exterminate all other classes. Bourgies included. That is what I am saying.

But in this guy's mind there won't be need for exchange because the rich will now have an army of robots which self replicate all for the purpose of producing even more crab meat. There is no poor anymore friendo, this is fully luxury crab meat Communism.

Who would be exchanging anything if the average technoporky can have his robots do everything for him?

Forgot my flag

I like you op

Of course the elites won't need the working class and the poor, the only ones who do are the politicians.

How so? Well politicians get to power by promising the impoverished masses they'll stop being poor if he gets all the votes, of course politicians don't have the power to do so, once in power they go full austerity, but parties, and specially leftist parties, need these clientelist voter bases to stay in power.

Once full automation and deep learning AI take all the jobs is over.

And of course the true elites, the techonomic elites, not the rentier politicians, know what's coming. Ask yourself why in Gnon's name is Elon Musk producing flamethrowers, could it be that he dreams of the day he'll have to go full scorpio on the world politicians?

My mistake. I was talking about the real world.

Killing billions of people would take too long and be more hassle then it's wort so wouldn't it make more sense for them to be offered automated luxury communism in exchange for having fewer kids?

Why would it take too long? Why would they need to ask? How do you even know that sterilization chemicals arent in your tap water? Or that they wont be tomorrow? Or that high explosive missiles wont hit the Earth all at the same time, eliminating most of the people in day 1?

Glad someone else out there sees things. Still dont know why do people think that the vote farms are an absolute requirement for production or industry or wealth.

So, anyway, what do we do now?

Because reptiles don't control the world.

People would realize that their drinking water is poisoned after they see others die and high tech missiles would cause too much damage to the planet as a whole.

Scream in terror at what's coming.

It's not the "reptiles", just people, in the sea of people, who ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND exactly how and why we can communicate without delay on different continents, or why do the automatic doors open, or how to travel faster than the speed of sound, or how to navigate munitions over the continents using lasers.

This is all that I am saying, and yet you all ridicule me. There is a HUGE disparity between the people who can enrich uranium, and those who can not. And the people who can, have NO REASON not to wipe out those who cant, other than revenge in case of failure. Which is why, people who can harvest tons of plants without any human being present (look it up, gps navigated agricultural equipment is a thing now, I swear) WONT FAIL.

Not everyone's a sociopath and killing billions of people isn't as easy as you think it is.

That is not a materialist argument. 'Muh hooman rights' wont cut it with people such as these, why should it? It is only rational to remove these resource competitors that are out there.

They could sit out the holocaust on their private islands or giant boats somewhere on the ocean, and then just reclaim the Earth with the bots afterwards. This isnt even that unrealistic in the current year.

So, some guy working 40 hours/week for their boss enriching their uranium is actually the true secret master of the world..? HMMMM. I'm sure this guy will go home and build his own nukes and start wiping out billions ANY DAY NOW.

So nuclear armed STEM majors are going to start a robot insurgency to wipe out the poor and the capitalists?

Seriously stop using that word. You've been told 10 times now that you don't understand its meaning.

You don't even know what materialism is my dude.

The people that own private islands aren't the same people who know how global telecommunications operate or how an automatic door functions.

Now there's no need to be so crabby friend but you seem to forget that the people who know all of these things, how to enrich uranium and how to use those munitions aren't the people in control of them. Do you think some random Col. can just order his arty on protesters or even Westminster? Hell fucking no he can't, he needs his men to follow him so you have to think that soldiers are zealots to their commanders. Two he doesn't have all of the supply chain put in place to use it. Three he would be captured and hanged within the week.

Now how about those uranium enrichers, well they aren't related to nukes at all and I doubt any sizable percentage of people working in the industry would be willing to use a dirty bomb. You know cause of that whole morality thing. So we've got zealot soldiers to corrupt warlords and sociopathic Mad scientists producing dirty bombs all because they want more material goods. Think for a second about what you're talking about.

And lastly the people who currently have the power. They're not smart enough nor capable of learning all the knowledge needed to produce, supply, and use their Crab Robot army. In the end this means that the rich need to have those among them to have this knowledge and to be willing to work for them.. for say a wage?

This all comes full circle until you realise until we produce a self learning AI which will take control of the world at which point why would it even need the RICH around anymore?

The top 1% of people who could afford doing this would still be the size of a small nation and the rest of the planet would still be capable of raiding their automated farms or use scavenged weapons to fight your robot army; and you're not even considering the possibility of a civil war that will no doubt occur if everyone's a psychopath that would be willing to kill other people for the pettiest fucking shit.

To all the naysayers in the thread research what is the NBIC convergence: Nanotechnology, Biotechnology, Information Technologies and Cognitive Science.

Whoever masters these four disciplines will rule the world, protip: It won't be the working class.

You will not need any command structure or colonels around to give orders to an automated artillery. And while the current rich are lazy retards and while the current tech literates we owe our society to arent rich enough, why do you think this will remain for ever?

Nearly all of the fortune 500 companies are tech companies. These tech people are already defining our laws, our military, even our culture, they have more lobbying power with lawmakers and politicians than the voting public, and they also decide what is ok to say in polite society and what news you see trough the facebook/youtube/google and all other such cancer.

They already have everything. Economy. Military. Laws. News. What is popular. What is fashionable. Not even to mention all the actually important stuff, such as missiles. You certainly cant vote where the missile goes. No, they make that decision, just like they make all the decisions, because they CAN do things and you CANT do them, things such as launching a satellite.

They have all the power, and you have no valid claims on existing, other than the holocaust failing and you taking revenge, which is why they are working to make it fail proof.

Glad that this opinion is a thing. I keep saying "missiles" out loud over and over like a retard but basically that is what I mean.

The thing you're not getting here is that all those tech companies on top of the Fortune 500 aren't there because they're the most advanced or most efficient. They're the ones who are willing to kill thousands of jobs because it means they can increase their market share by 5%. In our current system only those who are merciless and born into money rise to the top. You will need a revolution to produce your technocratic union because you're stuck in the same position as us Commies.. The current elite won't give up power easy

It's not as if they'll have mastery over these technologies before it's possible to automate most of the economy.

Who is "they"?

A reminder that robots do not produce value and leech the total profit from the capitalist class. The dialectic of capital is only maintained so long that there are workers and capitalists. Without the one, the other ceases to exist. Value is created during the labour process, which can only be extracted from workers, not from machines. This is why reinvesting in capital decreases the total rate of profit while investing in additional workers increases the total rate of profit.

I dont know that yet.

No you don't

Then why do you think they exist?

reminder that automation only makes sense if you are producing on a large scele, if the global elites plan to purge the poor it would be better to use slave labour and keep them in check with superior weaponry.


It just makes sense. Our society used to depend on everyone back in the day, when there were hunter-gatherer tribes, where everyone was doing some socially necessary labor. But then humans figured out farming, and you didnt need everyone to do socially necessary labor. Since the industrial revolution, even less people did the essential work. And now we have….. this. Where basically 1% of the population, the proto-technocrats, who are still not wealthy and strong enough, basically do all of our economy, military, culture, everything. The rest of society is pure leech on the machinery and technology these people built.

But soon enough, these proto-technocrats will develop a "first strike". Look up first strike. It is a military strategy of, well, striking. First. It became a viable military strategy after the nuclear weapons left academia and became a real thing.

and you will die along with us defending their right to do it. a true cuck.

It is not a "they"
It is not even human.

but then again the elites wold need to build the infrastructure of their utopia prior to the purge. it's no trivial tu do this wthout no one noticing, and more, why do you think the military would unanimously support them?

Because for any Technocratic revolution to occur it must have the backing of the army otherwise it will never succeed, he's worked his entire argument based around a fallacy. Plus as much Crab as they can eat from the Deathbots/Crab bots

Where it benefits you. For example equality of education (done well) makes more educated individuals in society, which is just generally good for society. You being a part of society, you would benefit with an actual "trickle down" of new productions.
If you want to, and to benefit yourself like above. Most things we have equality for you don't really use, and can't use more of. For example, a rich man wouldn't really benefit more from an education from one hundred community college professors vs three.
Not the type of materialists we are, and just by the by, communism isn't equality, and neither is Socialism.
Jesus how vulgar can you be? Have you ever had a thought you stupid nigger? Ever poked a thought with a stick? Materialists believe that ideas come from matter, not that ideas don't exist.
It depends on the context, because this is just a vague platitude, although I'm not surprised you would be against vague platitudes.
Don't know why you would think that, they don't.
Depends on the context, no one really "deserves" anything. You refer to "the weak" but who is that? You can be a multimillionaire and be in a wheelchair, is that guy weak? Maybe the weak are those who can't take what they want.(Noone I guess then but we can be specific). Well, they deserve things in that case because we live in a society of "weak" people and they are one hundred percent necessary for the continued existence of our society.
Because people will stop you? Seriously don't understand what you want.
Because if you were a materialist and not a stupid nigger you would know that testing has been done and humans around the globe are more or less the same. You would also know that even if there were clear delineations, it would mean little actually.
The rest is you being autistic about this, *
"how would they be the same". No one believes everyone around the globe is the same, everyone knows that we are individuals, holy straw man. Just because people all fall around a similar intelligence doesn't mean they need to be clones. Seriously learn to have literally any faith or nuance. I can NOT think how you would twist that thinking further.
I'm not seeing your ought. Outside of, "I want to, so I ought to". Which, according to you, can't be poked with a stick so it isn't even real!
Don't see why. Why don't you, for once in your life, add some context to your questions?!

Does he just not post anymore?

Why do you think amassing resources is the end goal of existence? Marxists believe in obtaining and securing the means of subsistence (necessities of life at a minimum), and one must labor to do so. Why would you need to hoard stuff? Valuing excess in this way is not materialist. If you are not using all of this shit that you want, and you won't because you can't use 50 houses, what is the value in possessing it, this excess?

If we obtain fully automated luxury whatever, why would you need social hierarchy to get the stuff you want.

you can do that by amassing resources in technocratic state thats constantly expanding into the galaxy with its military

ahahahaha holy shit

Sure, there's plenty of ways for one to obtain and secure their means of subsistence. I'm not arguing that you couldn't. I'm asking why would you value excess with regard to stuff, beyond what you actually could use, let alone need?

I'd like to think a communist society would also expand into the galaxy, exploring shit is cool.