This is Belarus, Post-Soviet country you should know about.
Privatization and shock-therapy (like in Russia) never happened, state owns most of the economy. Heavy (tractors, trucks, cars) and Hi-tech industry (televisions, refrigerators, monitors, processors) managed to survive collapse of the USSR, despite country's very scarce resource base and small internal market.
While state controls biggest part of the economy, private business is allowed, however it is discouraged by heavy regulations. Many large businesses even got nationalized recently.
Current president Alexander Lukashenko, who was deputy of the Supreme Soviet back then, was the only deputy who voted against USSR dissolution. He was staunch opponent of privatization. In 1994 he was elected president and later transformed country into a presidential republic.
This is Belarus, Post-Soviet country you should know about
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so a "republic" for lukashenko?
I bet you also like screeching about DRUMPF
Every Belorussian city has a Lenin street. October Revolution is respected and celebrated with 7th November parade every year. Most of the soviet street names and monuments remain.
Communist past however is a controversial topic for Belorussians, while 52% of population regrets the collapse of the USSR, others outright hate communism.
School history education doesn't attempt to sugarcoat any of the stalin's era repressions, however doesn't try to hide his achievements.
Would be interesting to separate this opinion on age ranges. Usually it's the young east euros the ones who are huge anti-comms.
Yes, it is an authoritarian government, with President having most of the power. And yet, most of the people voted in favor of him getting such power on national referendum.
You need to understand Belorussian politics and mentality a bit to relate. Even during the times when his support rate drops, support rate of opposition candidates isn't rising.
Continuing, about language.
Belarus has two official languages: Russian and Belorussian. However 70% of Belorussians speak Russian in day-to-day life. I have never seen anyone use Belorussian in their conversation in my city.
Opposition advocates for removing official status from Russian and teaching it less in school. Nobody really wants it, that is why nationalists struggle to receive any sizeable support from population.
The Republicans' approval ratings are in the toilet and the Democrats' aren't doing much better, but just because the Republicans won the last round of elections doesn't mean they're popular or anything.
He does get reelected every 5 years, EU confirmed last elections as legit, or so I've heard. While some people may not support him, nobody other capable candidate for president exists and polls reflect that.
how is this related to communism
funny how you prove me right by going about drumpf immediately after
Belarus has free education at all levels (from kindergarten to university). Adult literacy is 99.9%, 25.6% of population have higher education. It has centralized testing for university admissions, making corruption much harder. Immediately after finishing a degree you get assigned a job of your specialty. Quality of education is on par with Soviet level: very high standard of physics, math, programming. About 6000 foreign students are studying in Belarus. Currently Belarus has a kind of IT boom thanks to high qualification programmers and low wages in the region.
It is an actual socialist state in a region where other countries became kleptocracies with thieving oligarchs?
Entire center of capital city, Minsk is UNESCO heritage site because of it's untouched socialist classicism architecture.
what's even funnier is how fucking stupid you are
republicans and democrats get reelected every two years in legit elections and there are obviously no other capable candidates because the polls reflect that
DONAL DRUMPF
How did Belarus survive counterrevolution and the general instability of the late 80s/early 90s?
But it isn't?
I will assume general knowledge of the events of 1985-1993 in the USSR and Russia.
Communist Party of Belarus opposed Gorbachev's policy of democratization and creation of the other parties and was actively struggling to remain in the leading role of the republic, yet they were able to secure only 46% in the Supreme Soviet.
However after SCSE coup failed central authority collapsed entirely and Belavezha Accords were signed by Shuskevich, Belorussian Supreme Soviet chairman and Ukrainian and Russian presidents. At the time Lukashenko was leader of the "Communists for Democracy" fraction in the Supreme Soviets.
Belarus haven't got a president until 1994, Supreme Soviet held all the power. Lukashenko managed to gain people's support and get elected as president. He got much of his popularity thanks to his anti-corrpution campaigns.
Get the rightists out of my country
Free medicine/education, high equality, mixed economy with most of it state-owned, until recently (when it could no longer be sustained due to economic crisis) continued to build free housing. Prices on essential goods are regulated to stay low.
What is your point?
So Belarus is a ML-state done right? I'm interested about visiting Minsk. How easy is it for Americans to travel to Belarus?
What will happen when Lukashenko dies?
You can stay for up to 5 days without visa if you are arriving at Minsk Airport. Prices in Minsk are very low compared to US. Most of young people speak enough English to help you navigate.
His clone takes over. Lukashenko II.
World ends.
How about rail or bus travel? Would that required a visa?
Yes, you would need a visa.
Those things are nice, yes, but are they socialism? I mean, I guess by the Fox News definition maybe, but can you in good faith as a Marxist say that Belarus is socialist?
As Lenin said: "Socialism is state monopoly capitalism used for the good of the people and therefore ceasing to be capitalistic monopoly".
But what did Marx say?
According to Marx definition no states on the first phase of communism exist currently in the world.
So it's not Socialism then
Source?
Bad thread
Free medicine/education and housing policies is something several capitalist countries have. State-owned enterprises were very common in capitalist countries before the 70s, and Mussolini's Italy had the second biggest public sector in the world after the Soviet Union. By your definition Saudi Arabia and Fascist Italy are some hardcore socialist countries
My point is that you're a fucking idiot and you don't know what you're talking about
every time, this fucking boards quality, and people complain when i start to just shitpost and call you all faggots and not post sourced textwalls anymore because you illiterate dipshits just do this crap again, talk out of your ass
i swear we should ban anyone who even mentions anyone saying anything and does not put at least one paragraph above and after the quote they're going for and giving source
So literally social democracy at the barrel of a gun.
I mean, it's better than capitalism pur sang, but it isn't socialism.
marxists.org
yes you are, now go fuck off kill yourself
Welfare state + price controls does not a dictatorship of the proletariat make.
embarrassing
Грозящая катастрофа и как с ней бороться В. И.Л Ленин (1917)
en.wikipedia.org
Otto von Bismark was
ACTUAL
EXISTING
SOCIALISM
GANG
When was Belarusian made, what's so different from russian?
Basically this point.
Are the means of poduction owned by the workers? All of this just sounds like but riding off of the Soviet Unions successes.
The German government has rebuked President Alexander Lukashenko of Belarus for saying he would "rather be a dictator than gay".
youtube.com
Would anyone have a source for this? You barely ever hear anything about Belarus, and when you do it's like "oh, it's the last dictatorship in europe right?".
Imperialists and liberals are perfectly fine with dictators. You start establishing worker councils and you're going to get run over, though.
osce.org
Sanctions were lifted shortly after.
Belarus is cuckolding entire states
there was a Ignalina Nuclear power plan near the border of Belarus, it made cheap electricity for the entire region it had same design as Chernobyl but was considered safe. But in 2004 as part of requirements to join eu it was closed. Belarus proposed of building new joint NPP, Lithuanian government refused and decided to build Visaginas NPP as most projects go it is not clear when and if it is going to be built.
Now Belarus is building its own NPP en.wikipedia.org
Banning people for this is unironically the best idea I have heard. If you can not post a quote for your claim, m you are bullshitting/don't know what you are talking about/are being a shit head.
I'm ready for your definitions of socialism, niggers.
I agree with bans, it's a shame BO is too much of a faggot to ban people who need to go
like you retard
why should we care?
I find this interesting. I guess it's because they've only grown up with propaganda?
Belorussian was used in literature from XVIII century, there are some earlier works, however i think they are more Church Slavic than Belorussian.
Language was reformed in 1933 to make grammar easier and it more similar to Russian.
Belorussian was considered peasant language, talking it in cities (which were rapidly growing, as republic was industrializing) was shunned upon. Parents thought teaching their children Belorussian is useless. In Minsk three generations didn't speak it at all.
Now it is being encouraged by government as a way to reaffirm Belorussian sovereignty. Syntax is same as in Russian, grammar is based on phonetic principle: "you write it like you hear it", however it borrows many words from German and Polish.
It is heavily-regulated market economy mostly state-owned. I can drew parallel with New Economic Policy of the USSR in the 20ies or Yugoslavia.
It's quite difficult to ride off USSR's successes when soviet republics' industry was producing for entire union population and using entire union resources. After USSR's dissolution economies of soviet republics plummeted because they had to rely on their own market.
Belarus was especially in tough spot, because of her heavy industry. There is little demand for it on local market and no natural resources like metals or energy sources.
While in Ukraine or Russia some people were outright starving due to laissez-faire economic policies (prices on some goods increased more than 10000%), Belarus avoided that AND saved their industry.
We owe a lot to Soviet Union, however managing to save what USSR gave us is something no other soviet republics managed to achieve.
nice
...
if you honestly believe this, then you are lying to yourself about being a communist
are the means of production in the hands of the workers? Does it operate under production for exchange or production for use?
Public transportation, railroads, housing and utility, pharmaceutical industry all operate for use by our society (and they are not even close to covering their expenses). Subway trip costs about 0.20$.
Nationalisation without socialisation is at best just a bureaucratic ran economy, at worst state capitalism.
What is wrong with such economy if it works in the interest of the working class.
Nothing,
What was wrong then with Fascists Italy's nationalization?
en.wikipedia.org
Just fucking stop please.
are you gonna make an actual argument?
Too bad Belarus' economy works in the interest of Russian oligarchs then.
you don't deserve one dumbass
By that logic the liberal french government is legitimate because "most people voted for it"
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horrible quads, kill yourself nigger
stay mad, child
as long as you kys you'reself
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You mean not "real socialism." It is socialist though.
Sure
If your definition of "Socialism", is just large scale nationalization under the watchful eye of an autocratic semi presidential republic, with some cold war era Soviet aesthetics, then ya, It's totally """"""Socialism"""""""
just like my example of Mussolini being a "Socialist"
en.wikipedia.org
Most Russian oligarchs are monarchist or neoliberal and would like nothing more than belarussian socialism to crumble so they can plunder their industries and use the people as cheap exploitable labor.
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Lukashenko was too busy installing himself as dictator to dismantle the remains of the soviet welfare state
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Interesting ML’s are ignoring Belarus’ economy actually shrinking since 2016 by 3.5%
Another embarrassing moment for red liberals/MLs.
So.. why should I care? How is life in Belarus better than in most capitalist countries? Man, I dont care anymore, screw your fantasies, it is far more rewarding to just get a stem or medical degree and enjoy capitalist life. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as you have a stem or medical degree. And that is perfectly fine. Physical resources ARE limited and people are NOT equal, and capitalism is distributing freedom and resources FAR better than any dictatorial hierarchical shithole ever could, by making everyone equally miserable, instead of sending you off to a construction yard for 2 years, invest in whatever small business or a useful degree, and live the good life, with enough freedom and resources to pursue whatever you want, a family life, some important industrial development, or some important medical development, I dont know, you can do whatever you want, and your quality of life will go up either way.
Under capitalism, only retards who DESERVE to be exploited because of their stupidity, weakness or worthlessness, get exploited. And this is perfectly FINE, desirable even, once you grow up a little bit and stumble upon reality of physical resources being physically limited, and humans all being DIFFERENT and UNEQUAL, and realizing that some people arent worth the resources.
What's with classcucks posting manifestos in random threads?
en.wikipedia.org
Free robotics courses for school children, robotics competitions, universities are preparing automation specialists. Biggest cause why this field is developing slowly is because robots aren't economically viable here, it's cheaper to employ humans (thank capitalism for that).
I think you are expecting too much from a 9.5 million people country. We have launched a bunch of sputniks recently though.
You do realize that higher education is not really available to even a fraction of people who are able to successfully acquire it in the west? Here more than 1/4 of population have higher education, now about 90% of high school (11th grade) graduates continue studying in the university. And if our STEM/medical education was bad, China wouldn't subsidize her students to study here.
Now go back to Holla Forums.
Belarus haven't recognized Crimea, maintains healthy relationship with Ukraine, dodged all attempts at integration despite immense economical and political pressure, refused to build Russian airbases.
I don't understand Russian boogeyman meme. Russia right now is the only force to counterbalance USA's imperialism and prevent them from going rampant.
Are you actually gonna argue?
just calling something "porky propaganda" works with the obvious (CIA shit), but just using the term for things you don't like is pathetic.
You are such a pathetic shill, your nothing but an aesthetic Marxists, and this board could use less jokes like you
Once again, Belarus, being the true """""""""Socialist"""""""""" beacon it is
Understandable, I wouldn't expect Trinidad to have a space program
Don't get flattered, China sends students all over the world.
Don't pretend Belarus is some sort of socialist state, it has public works and compulsory employment but it also has enormous companies which control vast sections of the economy, and its leader has openly flirted with the far-right (eg. Lukashenko saying he was like the Hitler for Belarus).
Don't bump this trash thread
Since when is an absence of privatization good in it's own right?
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Most people dont know this but Russian gov actually still owns a lot of big businesses in the country, also Rostec (nearly the entirety of military industry)
you can fuck off now
we really don't care about Russia
and nationalization under liberal democracy is not Socialism
triggered trostkite reporting in
was actually shitposting flag
and that does not deflect from the shittyness of that post
yes, we know nationalization is socialism only when is done under an authoritarian government.
Huh? There's reasons enough to not like it but it's obviously legitimate if people voted for it?