About hierarchies, bosses, and commmunism

Can someone explain why are you people against hierarchies? A worker here, you know, legitimate construction worker with an ass crack full of cement, working 9 hours a day with shovels and sledgehammers, pouring concrete 6 days a week, and all that for an absolutely miserable pay because I am from eastern Europe and have no contract or anything, I just show up, work like madman because you cant trick concrete into being less heavy than it is, and get paid in cash from bosses hand to mine, and then I go home. Im 24 years old so its ok I guess, tho it feels like I'll be deformed/dead by 60 this way…

Anyway, my crew worked in the city recently, and after the shift we went to a bar, all stinking like fresh concrete and dusty because we were pouring mixers that whole day, and we are all young, college years, and this group of students approaches us and buys us all drinks, because we are all workers, real, honest, hard workers. And it turns out they were recruiting for the local communist party, and needed all real workers to join up, so they could negotiate for better laws, better pensions, better regulations, days off, pay, that sort of thing. And I was like "ok but what is communism?" and they were like "bosses are exploiting you, you are doing all the work and they do none, yet you get a fraction of the money and they get almost all, and communism is an idea for the workers to unite and expel or overcome the bosses, get rid of them, free themselves, work for themselves", "and then what?" I asked, "after all the bosses/owners are either in jail or working like everyone else, what happens then?" and they tell me that ultimately new society is going to happen, society where there is no money, no class, no hierarchies, where no one will even need to work, and all the work anyone does will be voluntary and only for luxuries, needs being met as a default.

And what I want to ask here is, why abolish hierarchies tho? How are hierarchies not important, and beneficial to everyone?
We all grow up in a hierarchy called family, and we are all better for it, if children of the world united and overthrew parents, there would be a lot less of both children and parents.
Second one is schools, if all students united to get rid of the teachers, we would all be illiterate I guess.

Finally, the workplace. Yes, its true, my boss sits on his ass in a warm office all day, while my crew does all the lifting. And yes, the boss gets most of the money after the construction is built, while we get a fraction. But my boss is an architect, if he didnt tell me where to dig and pour concrete, there would be no grand building, there would be no foundations, I wouldnt have figure it out on my own, ever.
Once I worked shortly in a coal mine, and yes, the crew I was on dug out ALL the coal, but if the boss didnt tell us WHERE to dig, we wouldnt find any, yes we built all the supports, but if the boss didnt tell us where to support, we would either all die because of lack of supports, or just build supports all fucking day, and dig out nothing.

So I dont get it. Labor, when decapitated and undirected, would lead nowhere. Without my bosses, I doubt my quality of life would increase. This is why capitalism produces more stuff than any other system: it considers more than just raw labor. Like nature itself, it makes variations, and successful businesses reproduce, while less successful die in competition. Instead of a single plan (planned economy), it makes near infinite plans (private investmnet funds) and tests them all out, and the good plans grow/profit, while bad plans go bankrupt. Capitalism, like science or nature, it constantly tests itself, it constantly creates new things, and pit them against the old things, and measures which one wins.

So I dont know, I feel like if communist revolutionaries took the government, it would be good for the workers at start, spending the wealth bosses amassed, but would then do the same thing over and over in a planned order, and no one would be allowed to innovate, or invest in a different plan, or start a private business, and efficiency/productivity would stagnate, and start shrinking because things change, even climate changes, and this one planner might not account for that, and no one would be allowed to challenge the planned economy, and the wealth would shrink, and I would be called to pour concrete to build a wall to keep the miserable people in, instead of pouring concrete to keep the miserable people out, and the bosses, who all compete among each other, all compete to offer me a bigger paycheck.

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Your boss doesn't have magical powers that only activate when he gets paid X times more than you. Direction, organization, and leadership would still happen in a socialist economy.

Thanks for your honest opinions and non-dogmatic, inquisitive attitude, OP!

The development towards communism will likely involve stages, a series of long processes of economic and cultural struggles. The ultimate aim of communists is a society without hierarchies, but I think your understanding of this term is too broad.

For the immediate needs of the socio-economic transformation after the revolution I think it's necessary to distinguish "hierarchy" from authority and representational structures.

A boss is a de facto authority figure. He rules supreme over his firm not because of any admirable qualities of his, his talents, but mostly because he either inherited large sums that he invested, or got a loan and got lucky.

Communists in general accept that some forms of authority are legitimate, while others not. The workers of a factory, the inhabitants of a commune hold collective authority over their own members and to a different degree in the society they live in.

A boss is not a representative. Certainly not an elected popular representative of those who he employs. He might be the representative in the small confines of the board of the firm, but he clearly is not responsible for the well being of his workers or society at large.

Communists, again, believe that some forms of representations are legitimate, while being critical of all representative institutions. A union representative, a representative of a local worker's party, or the proletarian state operates entirely differently than the boss who has his individual interests over everything else.

Are these communist figures/institutions of authority and representation not corruptible, can they not turn into arbitrary, authoritarian hierarchies? Naturally, they are, they can. There are dogmatic horizontalists who oppose any form of authority and representation (and achieve jack shit).

It is our duty to work out these issues in a revolutionary society, with economic efficiency, collective discipline, and individual freedom in mind.

which

How would it happen? I mean you cant just say that it would happen, and then not say how it would happen. Capitalism answers this easily, and its answer is competition. Simply, bosses who are less organized, or abuse their workforce more, would be eliminated in competition bosses who are more organized, and offer better conditions to their workers.


So you are saying that this principle is not figured out yet? In capitalism they all compete, in feudalism it was given by God (tho mostly in number of pointy sticks and men carrying them) but in communism, there is no authority (no class or money)….. so what would prevent people who can build small arms and artillery platforms from just declare themselves authorities, and justify their claims by sending artillery shells to everyone who doesnt agree?

In capitalism at least, everyone is trying to supply some sort of a new niche instead of going for total domination, because capitalist/free market economy is so huge, and new businesses keep popping all the time, no one even considers trying to seize all of it, just a small bit is enough for you to enjoy almost all other goods.

hierarchies are essential in nature, consequently there will be hierarchies in communism, but they will come natural, will be temporary, agreed by everyone, to the benefit of everyone and no one will get exploited. basically there will be "leaders" for certain tasks, however there will no "bosses".
that's what marx meant when he defined communism as "to each according to his needs, each according to his abilities". i suppose mankind will have to go a long way in order to become mentally fit for it, but when it reaches that point it will take advantage of the most efficient economic system ever which by design distributes resources in the best and most economic way which in turn will boost progress in technology and science. and the best: it is not based on injustice and exploitation like capitalism, fascism, feudalism etc.
honestly i have no idea why people can be opposed to such a prospect.

I can tell you don't live in the real world.

No. I tried to outline most generally the points each leftist faction considers in their praxis. If you ask a Maoist guerrilla, an urbanite individualist anarchist, a Leninist, a platformist, a council communist, etc. they'll have different answers.

You think this is a weakness, but it's actually our strength. We are forced to think, to debate, while "capitalists have it all figured out," meaning: they don't have to think about it critically because it all functions. Hence they don't even understand this as an issue.

In communism – the real movement aimed at abolishing the current state of things? Yes, yes there is. The revolutionary proletariat hold absolute authority over the bourgeoisie, to name one counter example.

In communism – the future stage of history? Debatable. Again, we are not talking about hierarchies, but authority here. A cobbler, a scientist holds authority over a non-cobbler, non-scientist due to the simple fact of his expertise, for example.

Authority does and can exist beside these mediating forms.

What would be their systemic motivation for this in the first place? You still think of people post-revolution as motivated by mechanisms from the status quo ante.

Stop kidding yourself, please.

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Well, opposition to communism, even from the working classes, is simple.. communists say that they wish the best thing for everyone, but you ask them how exactly are they going to achieve that goal, and they dont know. They dont give you a prototype, they dont give you a prediction, they dont give you something you can check out or test. They just say they wish for the best. And I dont want to sound like a mean person but wishing for the best is simply not enough, or even valuable, in any way.

I think the working class especially is very Aristotelian about this, that is, I dont really care what someone's intent is, he could wish to torture me for all eternity, but if he is in practice with his actions doing me more good than the guy wishing me all the best, I am sticking with him.