Ive been reading the book "Iron Curtain, the crushing of Eastern Europe 1945-56" by Anne Applebaum and I've come across a questionable passage.
speaking of East Germany and Poland: "Communist Leaders both hated and feared church leaders, and not merely because of their own doctrinal athiesm. Religious leaders were a source of alternative moral and spiritual authority. They had independent financial resources and powerful contacts in western europe. Catholic priests in particular were feared, both because of their close links to the vatican and because of the perceived power of international catholic charities and societies. In many countries, notably Poland and Germany, church leaders had also been associated with the antifacist or anti-Hitler opposition during the war, which gave them addition status and legitimacy after the war's end."
This is of course referencing the obvious crackdown on churches in eastern europe during the period of "High Stalinism" but I feel like its pretty biased in favor of the church leaders (specifically the catholic church)
Wasn't it official church doctrine in Germany to celebrate Hitler's birthday every year until 1945? Wasn't the first major concordat Hitler signed with the Vatican which gave him a plurality in the Reichstag? Officially the Catholic church was pro-Hitler during his rise and even during the invasion of the USSR. Wouldn't that be a possible source of contention and hatred by the Communist party towards German and Polish catholics after the war? Yet that is completely left out of the equation (and so far the book, at least during this chapter). I understand that there were probably hundreds if not thousands of priests doing the right thing during the war, but officially the church was anti-communist and pro-Hilter. This of course says nothing about leaders elsewhere who were vehemently pro-nazi such as father coughlin.
also reading up on Anne Applebaum herself, I have noticed that she is married to a former polish Minister of Foreign affairs. Not that this taints the book persay, but it definitely makes me suspect as to what her agenda is (obviously the catholic church is very strong in poland)
So my question is…am I right to suspect the way her sentence above has been phrased to draw away attention from nazi collusion, and painting a false picture as the church being anti-nazi, or am I wrong on this and that the Communists just hated the german and catholic priests because they hated religion in general and saw it like they saw many other non-communist organizations?
From my understanding the Vatican's existence basically got cucked by its formation, with Mussolini in control of Italy, and he in turn allied to Hitler they couldn't really do anything against the Nazis unless they wanted to not existent anymore. That also kinda ignores how the church basically could only do minor protest at best when it came to Nazi-occupied Poland where the church leaders (along with all other political leaders) being shot on sight
Jose Moore
no shit
Evan Gonzalez
Although yes, catholic church a shit. Etc. etc.
Wyatt Scott
didn't know much about her, I picked up really the only cold war book on the warsaw pact I could find at the library, and this was it. Why? Is she a liberal shill and a joke around these parts?
Tyler Miller
ill take that as a yes
Nathaniel Jackson
go get some commie books like michael parenti on library genesis
Well yeah, but the way she speaks of it just goes like the usual disingenuous narrative
Now i actually know very little about this episode and its background, besides the fact that you couldn't govern with the SRs and that they later got violent and started to do assassinations and sabotage. Do you know where I can read more about it?
Tyler Morgan
The church was never pro-hitler in any sense and spoke openly against him in Germany until the Catholic aligned Centre party was banned and Mussolini's stranglehold on the Vatican tightened preventing any kind of direct opposition. At worst by policy they were hostaged SuccDems. Regarding the Polish, Catholics were hunted down by the Nazis during the occupation.
Grayson Green
Needsmore.jpg
Oliver Hill
Sorry, just realized how low quality that was. Here's a better one.
Jacob Long
this is what I really don't get. Where does this bitch get the nerve and why does she have an axe to grind specifically with the USSR? And was this an arranged marraige? how does someone named Applebaum end up with someone named Sikorski in Poland?
Julian Bailey
" Within two decades of October 1917, the Revolution had devoured not only its children, but also its founders — the men and women who had been motivated by such passion for destruction. It created not a beautiful new civilization but an angry, unhappy, and embittered society, one that squandered its resources, built ugly, inhuman cities, and broke new ground in atrocity and mass murder.
this is almost alex jones tier propaganda. Thanks for sharing.
Grayson Perez
into the trash it goes
Henry Parker
Church leaders in socialist countries were usually State Security agents or at least had latent cooperation with State Security.
t. someone from former commie country
Jordan Taylor
makes sense.
So it wasn't just because the Gommies hate religion? lol
Levi Harris
Ideologically they did, but realistically they figured out it was easier to have useful idiots working for them instead, and to, if possible, prevent any possible voices of dissent coming from the church.
The european churches were both pro-hitler. The hitlerites in Croatia had catholicism as the main spook in what they promoted as their national identity and the catholic church openly supported the Ustase. So you don't really have to look for some vague support for germany itself when you can simply point at Croatia
As for the orthodox church, just look at Greece. They supported the occupation force, and while some individual priests did fight in EAM, both the patriarchy supported the invaders as well as the monasteries. Athos officially sent him a letter congratulating him on his victory and asked him for protection etc.
You're repeating the bourgeoisie interpretation of history here. In actuality you say that "the communists did this, but not because of their ideology, but some x agenda that makes the church look good and makes them fear the church for being good". The truth is that religion was targeted because the Parties in power tried to bring uneducated peasant's out of that feudal/neoliberal mode of thinking and because the church is a reactionary organ that historically aided in the suppression of the masses. There's nothing more to it really
Joseph Sanchez
you don't say
Nolan Gray
Again, no, not even in the most vaguest sense is this true. At best the catholic church failed in inciting direct resistance during Mussolini's rule which was more or less impossible without fearing removal. Even then the vatican openly spoke out against Hitler. I'm not going to bother defending the Croatian church. The See publically did not recognize the Ustase and repeatedly told Stepinac to address them and take care of the problem before it escalated any further which he completely failed to do, even going further to collud with and de-facto support them. His "calling out" occurred far, far too late and he honestly deserved worse.
