Why have communist states been so anti christian? I know Marx regarded religion as unnecessary, but an important part of an the success of an ideology is the widespread appeal of it, and sometimes compromises must be made.
Many Christian churches have been critical of capitalism, so why didn't communist states try to work with them?
Other urls found in this thread:
youtu.be
exiledonline.com
en.wikipedia.org
nytimes.com
socialism.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
shakespir.com
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
twitter.com
Get in the fuck sack.
the orthodox church was a tsarist tool and the catholic church has never seen a fascist movement it doesn't like
...
Because brainlets (aka ☭TANKIE☭s) took the opiate quote out of context and committed a category error regarding materialism.
...
Protestants are even fucking worse.
Is there any pics of this smug christian girl getting raped on a cross, thanks
Many nations that had a communist revolution had Churches connected to state or in Russia and Spain's case monarchies. So many in the local clergy saw communism as a threat in vice versa. This problem doesn't exist in the Americas the US is mostly protestants and US imperialism and capitalism created liberation theology in south america. Most of south american communist are Catholics or atheists and nations like Cuba and bolivia are very Catholic.
vid and pic related. youtu.be
en.wikipedia.org
*blocks your path*
Marx's opposition to religion was ironically based entirely upon hegelian idealism.
"They often view this as a Roman Catholic doctrine that should be discarded and replaced with an emphasis on prosperity"
Get that televangelist prod shit out my face.
The Christians sided with the anti-communist or anarchist forces in Russia in pretty much all the little wars, and in WWII, Christians sided with Nazi Germany because they were afraid of the persecution they were facing/would face. The USSR pretty much made it a policy to kill them/oppress them afterwards because they were deemed dangerous elements that could incite civil war through faith after that.
Turns out Christians despite having a community identity tend to be pretty individualistic/dislike being ruled by ☭TANKIE☭s.
the catholic church was embedded with fascism in spain, portugal, italy, croatia, slovakia, hungary and more. even in germany they only disliked it because hitler wanted to centralise and germanise religion
the GDR was the best socialist state and it was protestant, it also rehabilitated luther to a degree
nytimes.com
estonia and latvia, two of the better soviet republics, were also nominally protestant
despite what people say, protestantism is a far more historically progressive force than catholicism, which always stunts societies to give privileges to nonces and has misled people for 2000 years
Depends on your location. In Europe yes. In the Americas? Fuck no.
Ah, I should note most communist states don't outright kill Christians because of fear of uprising/interference from the international community, but they sure do make it policy to make their lives living hell.
Sham- wait, do you mean regular people or the clergy?
The only logical conclusion for the Teachings of Jesus Christ is Socialism.
...
I think that's putting the cart before the horse a bit when you consider the commie parties openly opposed them, and most of the minor parties were, for lack of better words, degenerate as fuck very unchristian-like in nature. The church has always survived by the philosophy that even if rulers are a shit, it's better to side with the best chances of spiritual survival rather than get wiped out or made into a mockery of what the church/its community is/was supposed to stand for. It's why us Orthodox Christians get along better with some heretics protestant groups than we do with the Catholics even though theologically we have more similarity with Catholics than say, Anglicans.
Depends on the state. During the USSR, if you were known to be Christian you couldn't hold any public office (and since even positions like "school teacher" were considered public offices, this severely restricted what you could do). In places like China, they mostly go after the clergy since it's a pain to actually track down one of the world's largest-growing Christian populations and force them to submit.
Hmmmmmmmmm
Wait so how did materialism even happen then?
In Russia the Orthodox church owned vast amounts of land and wealth, supported tsarist autocracy, made religion a compulsory subject in schools, made criticism of the church and atheism illegal, and told peasants to oppose the revolution. They got what was coming to them.
Hello fellow brother of Christ. Please explain how you intend to stop your ideal ancap society from falling into fun and sin given that literally everything is permitted under libertarian ideals.
The only logical conclusion for the Teachings of Jesus Christ are the teachings of Christ.
in the Marxist/Leninist sense, it obviously is. the best you'll get is Diggers style agrarian proto-socialism
The constitution of the Soviet Union allowed freedom of region. During the 1937 census, 56 million people, half of the adult population of the USSR declared themselves to be Christian or religious. 39,000 religious organizations were registered with over 1 million activists.
Why is progressivism considered to be good? All it has gotten us is a spiritually empty society, devoid of any culture outside of mass consumption, built on the back of immense environmental destruction. And it only took us two world wars, the most destructive wars ever fought, to get here.
I honestly don't understand how you commies can hate capitalism yet still fall for the progress meme.
Khrushchev ruined everything.
No, that's capitalism.
They also supported hundreds of hospitals and thousands of schools on a donation-basis while acting as a community heart for the sole purpose of helping the proletariat rise out of farming ditches. Stop trying to make the issue one sided.
Hierarchy :^)
Nah, people need to help themselves. I think the values taught by Christ will bring salvation and better living conditions compared to those sinful communities, presenting a social pressure/evolutionary "incentive" to not be single-parent kiddy diddling trans-helicopter faggots. But seriously, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink. It doesn't mean anything unless the people themselves want to be saved.
The Constitution of the United States of America says I have the right to bear arms, but last time I checked the ATF will shoot my dog and break down my front door if I wrap a shoelace around my raifu the wrong way.
Guy when he was young vs him now. people can change as they grow older and they reconcile with the stuff they've done. The Catholic church is like a government with a left wing and a right wing the pope at the time was on the right and as he has gotten older and wiser he has gone to the left. This is the reason for his shift in politics.
wew lad
Yep, pretty easily to eliminate illiteracy when you literally kill anyone who can't read because you can't instill them with ☭TANKIE☭ propaganda.
...
Rolled 2, 4, 5, 2, 2, 4, 1, 6, 5, 5, 1, 3, 2, 1, 4, 6, 5, 3, 3, 5, 6, 2, 5, 2, 4, 1, 5 = 94 (27d6)Because Communism has always been reactionary and always played into certain hands
He was 39 and if a Holla Forumslack can turn red how is it not unthinkable that the pope can go left ?
Epic maymay, future victim of communism
Rabid anti-clericalism is liberal LARPing at worst and ☭TANKIE☭ LARPing at best. Religion's role in capitalist society is extremely marginal. Instead of telling people what to believe they simply say what they believe will get hem the most followers.
Not an argument
He probably wasn't a Holla Forumsack then and likely some alt-kiker who didn't learn the basis' of why
You cannot deny Evolution you christcucks
Catholics have accepted evolution for decades. Stop getting your political opinions from South Park.
Sauce on everything I've been saying so far: 80 year old Half German/Half Kazakh mentor who served as a school principal in the USSR up through the mid 1980s before moving to 'Murrica. He used to tell me some of the shit they weren't allowed to write down/speak about from when he'd talk to the East Germans on field trips, his grandmother, etc. The man lived a hard life and I can't fault him for still being a "market socialist" or whatever it is the старик calls himself now.
Among one of the main pillars of opposition to Allende was the Catholic School and University system which resisted student democracy and state involvement in education harshly, the same thing happened in Brazil to a smaller extent.
There are left-wing and right-wing christians everywhere.
Catholics in Cuba are also very anti-Castro and counterrevolutionary.
Pretty romantic/orientalist view you're holding there. Modern leftism might not exist without the influence of American proddies like the Quakers and other Puritans, and the church in South America was very much the opiate of the masses which kept Latifundio land-owners in power by promoting conformity and submissive thinking among campesinos, and the higher clergy which had very close ties with the corrupt governments and landlords kept the priests and preachers who were poorer and closer to the people on a very tight leash.
Liberation Theology, although it is modern, did have historical precedent but it was never and still isn't the mainstream catholic worldview as much as 1st world leftist would want it to be.
t. South American
...
Yet you still deny evolution past 100,000 years
Russian fox experiment proves you wrong
Also Catholics deny modern evolution
These statistics are impressive until you realise that capitalism did exactly the same thing WITHOUT murdering millions upon millions of people.
This is why I don't understand you commies, you use exactly the same arguments as capitalists do. If the only thing you're interested in is improving the material conditions of man, then you've already lost. The vast majority of communist states got BTFO by capitalism. The only way to counter this is to appeal to man's spiritual side as a counter against capitalist fun.
I never said they were "gud bois" just that they are irrelevant with the respect to the operation of contemporary capitalism.
...
L O L
For ☭TANKIE☭s that don't like religion a least read gramsci. The stuff he was teaching, the post ussr Eastern Orthodox Church learned and have made it that the CPRF must conform to parts of the Orthodox faith to stay relevant. Government can't fully get rid of religion because it makes itself apart of the prols culture, socialist must make a counterculture to attract the prols.
Turd Position is still capitalism.
LOL
Except the Soviets achieved those things in decades while capitalism took centuries
Lol
I'm not talking about the famines. I'm talking about things like this: en.wikipedia.org
Face it, all political systems are inherently immoral and murderous unless they recognise the divinity of a higher power.
Nothing with taking back your own land tbh
...
Christianity is sectarian and so is Islam and Judaism.
This comic should be edited with feudalist/religious pile being even bigger.
Religious sectarianism is what helped bring down Yugoslavia.
Are you sure you are a ☭TANKIE☭?
It was condemned by the church. The actions of individuals cannot always be controlled. However, the Stalinist crimes were performed by the state. Big difference.
Protestants only worship themselves and money. They do not recognise a higher power.
I'm pretty sure collaborating with imperialist powers did that.
kek
...
lel
Fuck off CatholiKKK scum Protestants did everything good for my country while Catholikkks did fuck all besides supporting separatists.
You don't know much about the KKK do you?
It was religious war that broke out that was pushed by the CIA iirc. There were other reasons though like no one was there to replace Tito after his death.
are you the ancap Christian from /liberty/ who used to larp as a stable human being only to confess being a wreck and then converted to orthodoxy and started learning Russian? why?
There's your answer.
Socialists and Marxists have worked with religions since, but religions tend to be fundamentally hierarchical and provide superstitious excuses for classes and castes.
God is a spook
shit waifu tbh, fam
John Paul basically gave the cold shoulder to the Sandinistas. The Vatican bureaucrats hates South American Catholicism, because liberation theology permeates through out it.
I've never met a pro-communism christian before. You're literally the only one, and you're not even a real christian, just a Kierkegaard-worshipper. Every real christian preaches charity, and then uses the congregation's swindled donations to make themselves richer. It's a capitalist scam through and through.
That's not to say spirituality can't exist or won't be tolerated - whatever connection you feel to that beyond yourself is fine, and in fact can lead to a greater feeling of empathy towards fellow living things. But religion is a capitalist way of playing on that connection for monetary profit and societal control, which is a disgusting perversion of how spirituality once was.
shakespir.com
no matter what side of the debate we're on we should all at least read this
A new religion will always try to replace the old ones
Every time.
Are you legitimately mentally ill?
Catholics were persecuted by the KKK, the KKK was protestant dip shit.
Well golly gee willikers
The CIA tried to have fucking Bob Marley of all people killed because the Rasta movement was in favor of socialism in Jamaica, cheap anti-deism like yours empowers imperialism.
That's the same logic as
religion =/= the church
He wasn’t referring to religion as a whole when he said “reactionaries.”
Actually kys
lol i can't believe how fast the contrarian pendulum has swung from being an edgy athiest to being a devout christian convert
New Atheism killed the skeptic movement.
this
fuck the pope
The Spanish should torch the churches again tbh
this happened in 2012 on /lit/ my dude, c'mon
youtube.com
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS BTFO
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS BTFO
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS BTFO
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS BTFO
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISTS BTFO
17 minutes is when the facts come in. I advise Holla Forums take a listen.
sounds like neoliberal, or succdem, both incredibly degenerаte government forms.
get your flag back on Chaya you're not fooling anyone
it's edgy christcuckoldry, dialectics were right
Quite true. """Skeptics""" these days are people that blindly accept status quo and verball attack anyone who doesn't agree.
The very concept of religious doctrine is incompatible with socialist revolution. If god was real, we'd have to invade heaven and kill him.
Might as well kill all parents too. After all hierarchy is always bad.
...
...
...
...
But uuhhhh, your religion has been disproved.. by science
Why are fundies trying to snake their way into our ranks? Are the crypto polyps?
Christians are succdems at best, don't forget if the Romans come for you, you should pay your taxes then roll over and get crucified cause throwing off your oppressors in a violent manner is violence.
Low lQ right wing faggot, read a book.
Liz Bruenig, Larry Website, Angela Nagle, et al are all following Michael Harrington’s crypto, anti-communist playbook.
*Tip*
Your that person who reads single quotes instead of passages, aren't you?
...
That's what it is. The passage is all about whenever it's right to pay taxes to the Romans. And Jesus states it sure is fine to pay taxes and give Caesar his stuff. Which inadvertently shows support for private production since Caesar owns all is above all and commands all.
Time and time again Jesus and his scriptures put Heaven>Earth. That's why so many early Christians were quite happy to be crucified cause they knew if they didn't do "bad" they went to heaven. But if good Communist soldiers go ahead and blast nazi's that's bad since that's taking a life. Christianity is a pacifist religion built on being submissive to the ruling classes (since they all go to hell anyway) so if you go ahead and wage slave away in a asbestos factory you go to heaven. It's no wonder Christianity was built into the feudal system and actively resisted those who were tearing it down and was complacent in it's genocide of hundreds of millions in Asia,Africa,Middle-east and North/South America as well as following along with European fascists who outside of Germany often venerated religion and protected the status of the Church.
I was at work so I wasn't able to address this but I'm back now This will be the fourth time I've had to address this to people who don't read, but here we go again.
So to begin, we start the passage with Jesus being approached by questioners who (according to Luke) had been sent by the chief priests to publicly confront him. They begin by first flattering him by praising his impartiality and devotion to the word of God, after which they attempt to question him by asking (according to Mark) “Teacher, we know that you are sincere, and show deference to no one; for you do not regard people with partiality, but teach the way of God in accordance with truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to the emperor, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” Now both Luke and Mark agree in what the questioners are attempting to do is put Jesus in a literary trap. If he says, "No, you should not pay the tax", the questioners can report him to the Roman authorities and, with the back-up of public witness, have him brought in for preaching tax resistance (which if we remember, he was accused of doing anyway during his trial before crucifixion). If he says, "Yes, you should pay the tax", the questioners can publicly shame him for supporting such a tax (the taxes were highly unpopular and had led to riots) and then bring him before the chief priests to be disavowed. Instead Jesus immediately and bluntly rebukes the questioners by first calling them hypocrites and then asking one of them to produce a Roman coin that would be suitable for paying the tax. In response, one of the questioners produces a "tribute penny" which can safely be assumed to be a denarii due to the questioners response to Jesus asking whose head was on the coin to be "Caesar". Now some background on the denarii during this time. It is a coin not yet in common circulation in Judea. It is also a coin which at this time portrays on one side Caesar proclaiming himself to be a god, which Jesus referred to as Mammon (God of money). So it is also, for all intents and purposes, a blasphemous coin. So here we have questioners, sent by the chief priest, displaying a blasphemous and uncommon coin, on the temple grounds, attempting to trap Jesus in a literary trap which on one side would have him declare subservience to the Romans. It is the epitome of hypocrisy. It outs the questioners (and by extension the chief priests and temple elites) for being nothing more then charlatans only playing the act of disobedience and resistance while being simultaneously willing to distribute, use, and display blasphemous currency on church grounds all while attempting to disavow Jesus for merely saying any form of support. This immediately puts Jesus at the rhetorical advantage. At this Jesus rebukes in the famous verse (Its emperor in some translations and uses give as well, but we'll use standard for this one) "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's", which with context can be better said "Render unto Caesar his coin and empty things, and unto God all things which are his. And if you had been paying attention to the message of the entire testament, all things are.
On the question of what early Christian society was or how it builds upon the teaching of communal possession, I refer to Ananias and Sapphira en.wikipedia.org
I now await my fifth tank so I can type a wall again
Very cool user. I always heard it also as a call to resistance, since caesar is the face of imperialism and war, what "is caesars" in the sense of what he deserves, is resistance.
When do you think christianity became a tool for reaction? Its adoption by Rome I assume?
Uhh…do you know the premise of Christianity
what a shit thread
be the change you want to see in the world comrade
...
Anything can become a tool for reaction given enough time, even certain socialist movements. Zizek and Baidou advise that even in a secular sense it is important for us to look back and understand the authentic revolutionary movement that was the early christians and how we might utilize such organic expression and praxis. As for when it became a tool for reaction, it is more that the church (and religion in general) is still subject to their current material conditions and the historical process rather then being individual actors outside of such conditions. We can see this in the church's transition from communal to feudal during the era of feudalism as well as its transition from feudal apparatus to general institution within capital during the rise of capitalism, and recently into SocDem. On a purely secular point this reflects partly what Marx said about religion on how it acts as the catalyst upon which people express their conditions, not the other way around.
Been there, done that. It was called "Liberation Theology" and only exists in Black churches now.
youtube.com
STOP APOLOGIZING FOR RELIGION YOU REACTIONARY FUCKS. RID YOURSELF OF THESE IDEAS POST HASTE.
Pray for them brothers for they know not what they do
