New documentary on the alt-right sheds light on the movement's beginnings

Any thoughts on this upcoming documentary? It seems once again very much focused only on sexual frustration. What is intriguing to me if there ever has been any actual data to back this idea of the alt-right being mainly composed of virgins and/or guys who can't get laid often? I'm a mid 20s virgin and yet have never been attracted to their ideas and I'd like to know if there's any actual data or just simply claiming that it's all just sexual frustration? Because to me it seems like, while there certainly are virgins among them, the majority isn't extremely 'sexually frustrated'.

Other urls found in this thread:

Already hate it
Liberals should stop attempting to be funny

The more they play that "they're losers, marginals, outsiders" card, the more they actually embolden their movement.

That "sexual frustration" angle is stupid. There might be truth to it, but to pathologize what is essentially a social phenomenon is just a lazy way to dispense with proper analysis of the context in which that phenomenon emerged. Liberals love that because that means they don't have to think about what's wrong with our current society.

I don't there isn't a link between the far right and sexual frustration as such. The conflation of the two is entirely down to the stormfront entryism of the chans, which gained notoriety around the election of Trump, which is incidental, not causative. But it's getting played up a ot because gender wars are the cultural trend du jour.

Not sure I would dismiss it outright. Which were the first boards to fall to the Holla Forums cancer on halfchan? /r9k/ and Holla Forums, incidentally the ones with the highest concentration of lonely virgin autists. Also look at their obsession with white women paring up with men of other ethnicity or with testosterone levels and soyboys, the use of "cuck" as an insult even. All of that fucking SCREAMS sexual frustration and insecurity.
I agree, it's not the only thing that drives them, but it's still pretty significant in my opinion.

I agree with you. But I believe any documentary presenting alt-rightists first and foremost as frustrated incels is shooting itself in the foot because it doesn't seem to realize that alt-rightists revel in that sort of victimization. The alt-right is almost entirely fueled by their persecution complex (whïte genocide, feminist take-over, cultural marxism, fake news, etc) and playing into that isn't a good idea if you want to demystify the movement.

Well, you're free to be blind.

Who cares

Definitely you're not wrong and there's a lot of sexual frustration and blatant misogyny. I'm just interested if there's any actual data behind all the claims about the alt-right being virgins. To me it's just an easy cop-out and I always think that most of the alt-right posting on 4ch is predominantly non-virgins who are just frustrated they can't have more.

Baboonposter please

I don’t get this meme.

Well it is true. The so called "alt-right" in the us is consisted of white petty-bourg autists who believe a global conspiracy made women not want to fuck them. That's where all the "anuddah shoah" comes from.

Basically, this is how neoliberalism affects the so called "middle-class". They don't feel the material aspect of it, but commodity fetishism and the alienation it produces still affects their interpersonal relationships, which at a young age forms the core of their personality.

Neoliberalism promotes "success" and competitiveness as the true goal of human existence, which in turn creates 2 models of the desired "perfect" person. For men, an implication that you should be shallow and pursue sex like an animal at any opportunity and for women, that you should be the most beautiful and wanted of the pack. This creates a series of complexes and self-esteem issues that are different in the sexes, but essentially stem from the same source of "i'm not good enough".

So let's take a look here at a typical petty-bourg male growing up, being taught these values from an early age. When he sees that his peers are "getting laid" etc while he doesn't, it ruins his self-esteem because he sees this as a competition. Not only does he do this, but women also follow this pattern of demeaning the "non-winners". This is also where the model of the alienated woman comes into play, since she is taught that she should be wanted and rejecting people gives her the self-worth and validation of being "the best".

So growing up inside this sphere of rejection, many outcomes are possible. Maybe the guy goes to college, where there's an atmosphere of questioning social norms and after feeling included for once, all the mythos of being "the alpha male" fades away. Maybe his family is educated enough to be able to support him and educate him to a degree that he can see through these models of behavior from his teenage years so that he doesn't build up emotional frustration.

But let's say none of these things happen, he becomes 18, gets a job or goes to some college but still carries that social anxiety with him, what then? He feels excluded from society as a whole, so frustration usually turns into anger. Now who can he be angry towards? Who's responsible for this?

The average american's education wouldn't possibly allow the average joe to process the complex dialectic behind his issues, so he goes for the simplest answers. He blames all womanhood for rejecting him and making him feel inferior. He blames black people, because on them he projects the masculinity he feels he lacks. So what would be an ideal society? One where he would be guaranteed a woman and blacks wouldn't exist. Couple this with the internet giving him access to 80 year old nazi propaganda, and you have yourself a right-autist.

It's like they didn't even bother researching the topic.

I love it pure propaganda, no form of reality, only insulting the opponent as all great debaters do.

Is it bad that I'm starting to enjoy baboonposter whenever he pops up?
He gives me a good laugh, I legitimately think he's /ourguy/ pretending to be Holla Forums for our amusement.

But that's just standard far right pap: racial purity, the reverence for strength, and misogeny. Same with soyboys: it's standard misogyny (feminization is prima facie bad) and fear of the foreign (soy, how foreign, how alien in our diets). As to cucks, the focus is I think not on the raw sexuality of the act, but on the power relations, with the cuckold being more than anything else powerless to control his wife and other men. That he is powerless sexually is aggravating, but not central.

All this focus on the sexual is a giant distraction of what it is all about with reactionaries, namely power, authority, xenophobia, misogyny, all in service of the elites directing the useful idiots. At most it is used as a tool to rope in pathetic men (and a few women), but again, the causation is not there, and explaining it as such is worthless pop psychology.


Good post but I'm still asking if there's any evidence and concrete data behind the virgin 'argument'. My anger and frustration are solely on capitalism and its destructiveness.

it's like 2012 all over again

Will the world finally end this time?
Pretty please?

it's kinda hard to produce data on a movement that's mainly online. their anger is also caused by capitalism, but not by it's more obvious aspect (lack of economic equality) but rather by commodity fetishism and alienated interpersonal relationships. Going from a to b in the first case is fairly "simple", going from capitalism to alienated interpersonal psychology requires a much deeper understanding of marxism.

If I had to guess their demographic, I'd assume they're in their majority petty-bourg to well-off proles, white (not trying to idpol here, they're white mainly because the movement always was deeply triggering and problematic so I don't think that a petty-bourg black person would be attracted to it) and social outcasts. For this data to be collected though, you'd have to have someone with capital actually bother to study this with marxist methodology, and a fair number of these people willing to answer questions like "are you a kissless virgin?" "did you feel lonely and unworthy during high school?" honestly.

No it was about wanting to play video games and not having any good games so they decided to ruin the world. The obsession with sex was a side effect.

wordfilters can be witty and amusing, but it's annoying when i try to write a serious post and they fuck up the coherence

It's not a side effect, it's a primary effect. Everything in society is about sex.


This is why I'm a sexual communist?

I get that, and do agree that it would be hard to. But so far then it's mostly just spectulation and I'm honestly just fucking tired with being associated with these nerds because of my virginity.
I don't know, have you seen Holla Forums whenever they step outside? Many people that would not be considered white (least of all by their own standards).

The ? Was a mistake.

They have autism.

Former marginally leftist Holla Forums user here. Why don't you just ask us if we're sexually frustrated rather than doing this weird speculation stuff?

I'm personally sexually frustrated, and sexually degenerate in most of the ways you would expect an introverted person who found Holla Forums at age 13 and grew up in modern pseudo-nihilist morality to be. I'm not a virgin, but I did become very depressed after my girlfriend left me and I haven't had sex in years. I understood that college is cuckoldry from the very beginning, but as a consequence I rarely see women near my age working my prole job, though if I was more enterprising and active I could definitely meet women.

There is an element of beta uprising to the rise of the alt-right, but if Nagle is trying to reduce it to that, she's dumber than I took her for. I read her book and it was bretty gud. (If she's so concerned she can be my gf.)

The actual cause of the rise of the alt-right though, is the inevitable conflicts that arise from proximity of different and unequal peoples who see themselves as "batting for different teams". It's actually just primal territorialism and ethnocentrism reasserting itself, albeit in a weird and stunted way due to the role television formerly had in suppressing those natural forces. The best course of action for race denialists or whatever you want to call yourselves is honestly to wrest control of non-traditional media away from the common people.("race denialists or whatever you want to call yourselves")

(I should also mention that I'm not involved in real-life activism, although I do plan to do some flyering/stickering for #mybordersmychoice)

You do it for us, constantly. Showing, is always more telling to the public, than telling.

What's not sexual about misogyny? Sure, basically all interpersonal relations boil down to power struggles but we can't just leave it at that if we want to have a decent grasp of the phenomena involved in said power struggles. This one in particular is motivated by the control of women, not power for power's sake, that's what they ultimately seek and what they lament they don't have, the foreign is not just hated in a general "them and us" way, but mainly because it's seen as an obstacle to their sexual success.

from the few alt-right-ish types I've met, I actually did get the feeling that they were at least very socially awkward/borderline autistic, but I don't live in the US

Also the answer to this is to make communist games because capitalism ruined the games industry, but Holla Forums can't into programming.

OP here, and that's exactly what I had imagined most of Holla Forums and the Holla Forumstv/ posters screeching about women in films and series to be like.

it's not speculation when we know about the effects of alienation on interpersonal relationships. it's like saying string theory is speculations because the particle accelerator can't test them

it doesn't say "virgin" on your forehead so i think this is something in your head. who would associate them with you otherwise?

well there is no such thing as a race (scientifically) to begin with, it's not like you cross the white or black threshold at x shade of brown. they simply identify with what they perceive as "white culture"

They usually are stunted or have some sort of mental problem that makes them so hysterical about race and """culture""".

I just don't buy it. They are coming for our women is a very vulgar point, and even most norps acknowledge it as such. If you look at people's opinions on miscegenation, the trend line is clearly towards acceptance. The real bite of xenophobia right now is not that they come for our women, but for our jobs and livelihoods - the idea of immigrants sponging of the welfare state and driving down wages. This is what drives people, they think with their stomachs more than with their genitals. As to control of women, that's exactly what it is about, control. Many of the most women-controlling societies also happen to have polygamy, where not only men are empowered over women but even generally powerful men controlling multiple women. And if there is one thing that heightens sexual frustration, it is polygamy, because then you really are in winner takes all territory, economical winners in this case, as it's not chads that keep literal harems, but wealthy old dudes.

Now of course the idea of controlling women will appeal to the sexually frustrated, but unless you clearly show a causation, you cannot just assume it originates there also. Power is enough of its own reward to make this superfluous.

I think the very fact that people like Andrew Anglin have literally set themselves out and boast their success is in the High School aged boy demographic shows you it is about sex, in some inseparable way. I mean, look at any Holla Forums posters the last couple years, it's all about rape, and white women not fucking them, cuckolding porn, it's inescapable from some sexual hysteria.

Anglin saying his most loyal demographic are boys going through puberty should really tell you something.

It's the result of capitalist alienation and the collapse of the economy in 2007.

well there is no such thing as a race (scientifically) to begin with, it's not like you cross the white or black threshold at x shade of brown. they simply identify with what they perceive as "white culture"
Truth but it's just funny that they all fail their own standards of whiteness innit.
Don't deny that and that I'm probably beating myself up over it way too much. The topic just seemed intriguing to me.

I don't buy that as much, I see Holla Forums posters as mainly high schoolers and community college kids more than I see them as say, adults. I could be wrong on this, but they act like boys in puberty. Anglin attesting to such only confirms what I've already previously thought.

Could you elaborate? I only vaguely know who this is.

Maybe we are talking past each other, because I don't think online developments are that important, and that section of the visible aut right that influential. My experience is with the organized European far right which is maybe a bit more old fashioned

We were saying "normies" in the 80s to refer to capitalist drones.

Holla Forumsreddit definitely lots of adults.

You don't think capitalism can alienate children and young adults?
You thought wrong.

He's the primary pusher of the Daily Stormer and is actually currently trying to escape a lawsuit. I believe. Anyways, he said he deliberately targets younger kids in order for them to mature into adults who believe his shit, as adults usually have a harder time laughing at his dumb podcast/buying into everything he says.

He's essentially, conditioning younger high school aged boys to be the stereotypical """alienated""" reactionary by targeting their age group, specifically. He said chans generate the most 14-18 year olds, he claims are usually the most fanatic. More fanatic than adults with say, critical views on capitalism.

And more easy to be sexually hysterical, since they're still developing and going through puberty.

well ye, it's not like their "ideology" is coherent to begin with. they are the same people that think jews control the world and also support trump, who moved the us embassy to Jerusalem. they hate muslims yet pretty much identify with their "values" 100%. they hate immigrants while they themselves are most likely 2nd-3rd generation immigrants too, look at that jontron retard who's half-iranian but talks about "white culture"

Only younger high school kids watch Jake Paul, so you're kind of proving my point.

The reason this is happening is because the capitalist world is in complete contradiction in every single way, and every capitalist "authority" is a complete sham while it uses the full might of the neoliberal propaganda machine against leftism. They have nowhere else to turn except reaction.

That's Logan Paul, who mostly peddles family friendly vlogger crap for pre-teens. If you want to see what his entire mindset is, if you want to get the full brunt of the the present state of capital propaganda, watch this:

Not really.

that's exactly why a party with sufficient understanding of theory needs to be established in the US.

This is just not the case. All of the alt-right's propaganda is focused on rape and interracial breeding, look at the Sweden meme, rapefugees, even the my borders my choice larp is framed as a sexual thing.
Honest question, what would be your standards for causation? It's really hard to gather reliable data on a movement that's not only almost exclusively online, but also anonymous, so I would say that the fact that it spread like wildfire in communities full of bitter, alienated incels is enough to connect the dots.

pick one

Not exactly a novel idea this. Anyway, you're describing someone opportunistically using sexual frustration in the young (in no small part a natural product of our current capitalist culture), not a causative link between rightism and sexual frustration.

All of this is confined to basement dwellers, it is not a force in society at large.
As regards to sexual frustration being proven causative to far right tendencies, I'd probably already be swayed by enough anecdotes. If you could show that Spencer, David Duke, and other prominent fascists grew up in sexually frustrated milieus. A paper that parses biographies of far rightist thinkers, something to that effect. Because now your argument is purely focused on memes.

don't be pedantic, you know exactly the context of it on image boards

Well, that's what we were talking about wasn't it? Whether or not sexual frustration has always been causative to far right ideas I don't know, but for the current crop of far-right wingers, the alt-right, it sure as hell was.

To them, the "left" are the neoliberal Democrats and their post-1968 bourgeois culture. Not Marx, not Lenin, they have no understanding of what they dislike. If you explained leftist theory to them they would buy it up.

They don't understand what they want. They're bouncing up and down the right side of the political spectrum for that solution, from Obama to Ron Paul back to Trump. For all the talk of an-capism they didn't actually want it, they went for the authoritarian candidate. Now Trump is in the Oval Office destroying their hopes and dreams of a second Hitler and bringing about a second economic recession.

There is another picture they have of the left, a Red Scare cartoon of Stalin, who they hate for all the revisionist and bourgeois criticisms brought against him after his death (though he had many flaws). A coordinated and sudden jolt towards the left center can bring about the actual change. During the an-cap / Nazi battle on Holla Forums, which the an-caps lost, there was an attempt to pull a "Nationalist Capitalism" which failed to gain any ground. They lie that they don't want the Socialism portion of Not Socialism, even though they want policies that explicitly benefit them, believing that socialism doesn't work due to the cost of other races, when the truth is:
Socialism works.
Nationalism doesn't.
Capitalism doesn't.
Liberalism doesn't.
The bourgeois classes are inherently exploitative.
Socialism is not inherently authoritarian. (argument against the Stalin cartoon)
Socialism is not neo-liberalism. (argument against the Democrats)
Socialism is not bourgeois post-modernism. (argument against the "cultural marxism" conspiracy).
Socialism is not Zionism. (argument against the muh joos)

And a leader, or many leaders, to make these arguments.

Fair enough. I was taking aut right as standing for the far right generally, because I don't see the aut right in the narrow sense as something worth a lot of thought, not being a serious political force and so on (in b4 proven wrong by history when the frog party takes 100 seats in the House).

no, your position is what makes social sciences a joke at the moment. social sciences aren't chemistry, you cannot falsify them and test them like you can a chemical reaction simply due to their nature. saying that if a theory isn't empirically testable, it's not scientific you're basically saying that things like history and sociology cannot be studied scientifically (but only like they are today)

a scientist has to study the subject, uncover the laws governing it's existence and progress and attempt to apply these laws to create models fit for describing the subject and predicting it's future progress. this is how marx studied society scientifically, your position isn't the proper popperist one

btw I didn't read the thing you are responding to nor the whole post you made, I simply wanted to comment on the logic of that sentence


Excellent post. For some reason they cannot tell the difference between Hillary and us, but we can tell the difference between an average Holla Forumsyp and John McCain.

In addition:
Race is a spook.
Socialism is not deeply triggering and problematic.
Nationalism is a spook.
Socialism is not anti-borders.
International worker solidarity works.
International capital doesn't.

The problem is that social democrats in the West made a compromise with Porky to their own demise in the 1970s, and then Porky presented international free trade as the solution. Porky's exploitation led to the modern migrant crisis, it's not the result of some Jewish conspiracy.

The reason for the failure of the social democrats in the 1970s was because the traditional elites sought to preserve their power bases in their respective nations, and therefore prevented international worker cooperation and pitted the working classes of the world against each other. When the compromise started failing in the 70s the entire world should have said "enough!", however Porky came and bought the last vestiges of power from the feudal aristocrats. Then Porky crashed the economy in 2007, and the political parties and rings of patronage tried to make a comeback even though they were as corrupt as the banks they were opposing.

Trump, a pure Porky through and through, having no ties to the traditional power, is the market response to the politicians. Being a Porky, he's going to crash the economy. This time, worse than ever before.

International worker solidarity is the only way we can get through the coming storm.

user, it's hard, almost impossible to collect hard data about a movement that largely exists on an anonymous mongolian throat singing online forum.

That said, you can empirically confirm the theory for yourself by just going on Holla Forums and reading through their threads. What are the primary topics? The fun of Western women, interracial relations, obsession with masculinity and "chad-dom". Their memes such as "cuck", "soyboy" and "rapefugee" are mired in sexual and gender undertones.

It's a major factor. Holla Forums and alt-right are a movement of white nerds waging a war against the perceived threat to their bubbled-up suburban world and hobbies. They are venting about tfw no gf and bad videogames with a veneer of braindead simple us vs them ideology that grants them a feeling of communality and purpose. They are sexually frustrated and afraid of women and blackies in their spaces so they rationalize it with a jewish conspiracy. They do not want to realize that it is capitalism that has ruined videogames and it is capitalism's interpersonal alienation that prevents them from getting laid - because it's far more cathartic to vent and lash out against "real" black people and twitter posters and it doesn't require reading books. There is no deep thought or ideology behind the alt-right, it's /r9k/ nerds being nerds while adopting cool nazi aesthetics just like in their vidyagames.

The final death knell of capital will probably go as follows:

the alternative is nuclear hellfire

I dont give a shit who she is
Im just pointing out that it is unfunny and cringy

We don't want baboons!
Baboons are necessary? No! Baboons must go to the zoos! They are necessary for the zoos! Angela Nagle may live in the zoos with baboons!

I developed my current views on sex roles well after getting out of my depression. The real life experience that prompted me thinking about it was actually moving out and living by myself and realizing how difficult it is to balance work and housekeeping, and I came to the realization that traditions in this regard are practical solutions.

"I will see you in Hell or in Communism!"


whats it filtering

Would porky really risk it all and nuke the entire world if the working class posed as a serious threat to bourgeois hegemony? I've always thought porky likes control and profits and there wouldn't be much of that in a post-apocalyptic radiated wasteland. A more likely scenario would be they just use the military to carpet bomb major urban centers while they fuck off to their bunkers in the countryside then emerge as the "saviors of humanity" or "re-builders of civilization" to reestablish their dominance as a class.

We don't want baboons!
Baboons are necessary? No! Baboons must go to the zoos! They are necessary for the zoos! Angela Nagle may live in the zoos with baboons!

Well said fellow Kekistani!

Then the workers will nuke them. Either they shoot or they will be shot. The workers are more competent than the porkies in the end, remember.

Also re: the Randian argument: the evil characters in her caricature are more reminiscent of bureaucrats that exist as porkies in neo-liberalism and the nomenklatura in socialist states. Everyone should be against such bureaucrats. The "Randian hero" genius entrepreneur could just as easily be a member of a socialist intelligentsia if they dropped the psychopathy.

y live