Is Jordan Peterson's popularity a symptom of how profoundly stupid and solipsistic neoliberalism has made our culture...

Is Jordan Peterson's popularity a symptom of how profoundly stupid and solipsistic neoliberalism has made our culture, and why is the answer "yes"? The man's "philosophy" comes off as cheap self-help BS at best, and outright cult-like brainwashing at worst. Which is probably why he describes his self-selected enemies as "cults", so this conman can deflect any criticisms as coming from brainwashed Postmodern Neo-Marxists (TM)

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Partially because he comes of as an informed authority (he's a professor, and those have "never' been wrong about anything if they say what you want to hear, right?) with an easy, simple answer that his audience wants to hear. The real reason is an entangled mess of sociological, political and economic reasons that spans, in shortest time span, last forty or so years, and most of his audiences have barely lived through half of that period, they were most likely born in a relative period of neoliberal stability in which every problem, especially social and economic problem, seemed solved. A lot of his self-help bullshit is popular precisely for the same reason any self help bullshit is popular - because it doesn't require his audience to reflect or introspect, it doesn't require them to change, or for the system that actually produces their alienation to change. Everything is perfect the way it is, you just need to accept that and pull yourself together.
The worst part is that his snakeoil is gateway drug into fascism, in no small part because what he peddles is regurgitated fascist propaganda (ie. cultural-marxism). He's a demagogue of the worst kind.

Great response. I don't know if I even have anything to add to that - you pretty much covered the majority of it.

The snakeoil of the ages.


Also in case you haven't noticed his audience is indeed full of idiots that would have to get their act together to do anything about the system they find themselves in. If they tried to change the system without any self-awareness at all they'd fail just the same. We need a /lefty/Peterson without the cultism.

I should've specified, it doesn't require substantial change, rather it peddles that the change you need is already inside of you, in accepting the world as it is. Not in active effort, but a passive understanding. They're being told to "pull themselves together", but what does that really mean? It's just an abstract reassuring feelgood slogan with no quality, something to tell yourself when you blame symptoms, not the root core of your problem - it's dulling, not inspiring.

Pretty much sums up how I feel about all those goons on the motivational speaker circuit

The most substantial of action motivational speakers want to spark in their audience is to feel good by buying their products, and considering Peterson's most recent literary "accomplishment" (a fucking self help book) I wouldn't say his goal is much different. He found a loyal audience that will eat his shit up, no questions asked, he has the authority of being a professor, and in true capitalist fashion, he wasted no time exploiting this gift. It's almost a text book example of a conman.

It's even worse. His message is not just, all the change you will ever need is inside of you, but it's also (whenever he gets over his self-sucking verbosity) giving banal and frankly retrograde instruction as to what that change should be. He tells you how to be a better tool and masks it as self actualization.

No it isn't. The point of his entire "pull yourself together" slogan is that you are an individual with your own problems that can't easily be solved with some kind of broad general life advice. The best general advice you can give is to try to get your life together, however is best for you as an individual to do that. In all likelihood you will need to seek help from others but seeking help from the government or state is probably not the best. How often does the state actually give you what you need? Instead you should look to family, friends, therapists, etc because they can get to know you personally and help you as an individual. Peterson is an individualist and if you simply stop playing dumb you can easily understand his point of view and his advice and realize it is pretty sound.

wew you just proved yugofag even more right and only insisted on peterson's true worthlessness. back to the youtube comment section with you

That's not at all what I said. You are in denial if you think everyone faces the same exact problems though. You really think all the problems everyone faces can be solved with just the perfect system? That's very naive, do you even have an idea how complex our systems are? How complex a single person is?

people's anxieties if you were actually interested in understanding them and not just making abstractions to make yourself look smart ARE in fact rooted in capitalist alienation. your jungian analogies are only useful in so far as how they ignore actual problems

That's absolutely idiotic. People have had anxiety before capitalism existed. Animals with no capitalist society behave the same way as humans, they fight, they love, they have fear, they care about each other, they kill each other even without any kind of capitalist system. Anxieties are an innate part of the human mind, emotions in general are. That is not to say capitalism is even good at all I am only saying that it is objectively false that capitalism is the source of all evil in humanity.

Haven't we had this thread enough times already? I like Peterson, he's doing an amazing job or red-pilling the right wing kids on jungian psychology, and an incredibly postmodernist view of the world. Yes the guy thinks postmodernism is whatever the bitchy gender-studies prof he knows says these days. No that is not correct. But saying the world is a formless chaos out of which we must socially construct a structure for ourselves and others to inhabit is about as postmodernist as it gets.

wut? try putting up a Peterson thread on Holla Forums and see how much they tolerate it

Obviously they are in church, where they belong.

Yes he is, a very stupid symptom…

God is not real, Peterson is proof there is no God. Shut up Dork.

I want to read a post in an argument defending Peterson written by a college sophomore explaining the evolutionary reasons why men prefer to urinate standing together in a row, rather than shoot for the stall

This wouldn't be hard to do, there's a bunch of evo-psych work about friendship differences between men and women. With men tending to prefer rough equals and task oriented activities. Note also that guys prefer sitting on the same side of a bench or in rows on bars, which symbolically speaking is something like "we are comrades shoulder to shoulder facing towards the world", while women more often do the intimate facing across from each other and looking into one anothers eyes, "you are the focus of my attention and I care about you". Just extend the argument to urinals and you're done. Sorry not a college sophomore tho….

Ok. so men naturally evolved piss cycles where they all have to piss at the same time. this is to save time during hunting or something. and ya can't piss alone, you want safety in numbers. so why face the same direction? Hold on to your nuts people it's time for some game theory

Tell me about how pee is stored in the balls next

the same anxieties we feel now are not the same anxieties caveman got from fear of predators or whatever. the only reason peterson has any kind of popularity is because the absolute existential crisis late capitalism has put gen Y in and le "pull yourself together" memes are an easy, but false answer for desperate people

how can he be so wrong as to pretend piss anxiety doesn't real

Not really. They are the best answer for an individual with little to no real influence on the world to make the most of their life. He also doesn't encourage people to simply give up on politics but to "grow up" and learn how to live properly and in the process acquire knowledge and wisdom which they will then use to fix society. Wisdom is important too because no matter how much knowledge you learn from school it doesn't mean you know what is best for society. The idea is to make yourself into a better person which society would actually be justified in listening to instead of simply kicking and screaming because you know nothing about how to fix the world but are still justified in wanting to fix it.

Jordan Peterson may very well be a qualified psychologist, i'm not an expert in that field and couldn't tell you how off base or not he is there. but politically he is just a christian reactionary cryptofash with a boner for hierarchy and traditionalism and if he cared about academic integrity he really needs to be more responsible about speaking about these things outside of his expertise presenting himself as an authority.

you're just abstractly describing becoming a tool of the system who doesn't question it. i mean peterson's language (and by extension; yours) pretty clearly describes how he feels about any sort of anti-capitalist movement. i get what you're doing here. assimilating into capitalism with a smile is "becoming a better person people want to listen to". while trying to make actual material, systemic change to make people's lives better is "kicking and screaming because you know nothing". brilliant. i can see why a bunch of 13 year old kekistanis fall for this basic appeal-to-emotion ploy. just call capitalist ideology "pulling yourself together" (ie just a basic changeup of le bootstrap meme) and call any kind of leftism (or just liberal idpol you don't like) postmodern cultural marxism soros-ism obama-ism and see how many retards cower in fear and perk their ears up for your non-solution to a non-problem. yeah this is really what society needs right now

Are there people who actually listen to this Canadian Kermit the frog fucker posting in this thread right now


guy isnt worth spending 5 minutes thinking about. he is just another self help guru scammer using the "sjw" hysteria as a vehicle to get his name out there.

There are so many assumptions made here holy shit. I did not ever say any of that, you simply chose to dig for hidden meaning in my post. We were talking about life advice to young people facing an existential crisis. Do you really believe the best answer is to just blindly follow an ideology like communism or fascism or liberalism? Just join their cult because hey at least you will have friends? That's incredibly shortsighted. Jordan Peterson does dislike communism and fascism I won't deny that but the advice he gives to sort yourself out is something completely neutral lacking any real political ideology to back it up. In fact it is actually just a practical and smart solution to the problem. If you take the time to improve yourself with real things like skill and not superficial things like status you will be a better person better suited to solving the world's problems. It's much better than wasting your life away for an ideology you followed when you knew very little about anything and only joined it out of fear and anxiety. I'm not saying it is easy which is why I said you will probably need help from other people like friends and family. Nobody is telling you to just roll over and give up.

that's kind of my point. any general advice peterson gives is just the same milquetoast non-answers you can get from all kinds of different self-help speakers. any real meat to be discerned from anything he says though seems to be dangerous capitalist ideology with some mysticism thrown in to excuse it. that's why i'm not particularly concerned with the whole "you should help yourself by talking to friends" or whatever because obviously in general, that's good advice. i just don't see it as peterson's real, effective message to people here. am i just supposed to ignore how most of his fanboys are alt-right? what does that say about what he's really saying here?


Cryptofashes use tumblr SJWs as a boogeyman to legitimize far right beliefs. Slick talkers like Peterson can dress it up in rhetoric and through self help fatherly advice resonating with these kids, but the underlying message isn't very different. Maybe not full on blood n soil Nazism, but it's definitely some sort of far right traditionalist conservative hierarchical nationalist (all his"muh western civilization") way of thinking. There's a reason WHY these people are fans of him. Because of his slick talking and knowledge, he's scarier because he can disguise it and get mainstream platforms opposed to PC to go along with it and present an air of respectability.

Peterson pushes "Cultural Marxism" conspiracy theories and h3h3, joe rogan, and others give credence to those ideas and spread it to dumb impressionable teenagers. They have a social responsibility as entertainers to tell the truth to their young audience that looks up to them, or be politically neutral. Otherwise they're spreading misinformation that enables the rise of fascism.

It's not a non-answer though it is the only real answer because nobody can say what you as an individual actually need unless they can know more about you. Most people online are not so willing to reveal personal information like that at least not on anonymous websites.

You sound incredibly paranoid. Yes he is a capitalist, yes he is religious, no he is not using that to excuse some dangerous belief of his.

The alt-right hates him, his fanboys are mostly libertarian/liberal skeptics and sure some of them probably browse Holla Forums.

Nothing because it wasn't even true to begin with but even so it is irrelevant to his beliefs.

Also the self-help is actually the single most important thing he pushes. It is his answer to the problems he claims post-modernism causes, it is the solution. Also I am not saying that marxism is good either, I am saying that his message is a practical solution that an individual is capable of embodying, if they desire, in order to deal with their existential crisis. Perhaps that path will inevitably lead to someone with anti-marxist beliefs which would be why Peterson holds those beliefs. The point is if you actually go down a neutral path it doesn't mean you must treat all solutions as equally good and bad forever it only means you wait before drawing a conclusion. Waiting meaning that you try to acquire wisdom about the world before you choose to act or commit to a belief. Peterson is already in his mid 50's I think it safe to say he has done that already, it does not mean he is right about marxism necessarily.

I hate to say this, but you people deserve to be scammed.


So communism is somehow a cult now? Do you even know what the hell a cult is? And tell me, how is Peterson not following his own ideology of actually reactionary liberalism when he assumes that those who hold different beliefs are in cults? Or that they are just a child going through some sort of crisis that needs the intervention of a psychologist but has instead been brain-washed by 'Cultural Margsism' or some other bullshit Nazi meme. Everyone has an ideology and Peterson holds to a limp-dicked liberalism and he doesn't even have the conviction for sincere religious belief, let alone the conviction to criticize capitalism and modern Western society

I actually reside about half an hour from where Peterson works. I would go take pictures of his office and ask him if he thinks postmodernism has ruined the hentai visual novel industry (it has, liberals have made it so that we'll never get another YMK or Sagara Family) but apparently his office is under round-the-clock campus protection and I don't want some fat rent-a-cop trying to detain me for a selfie

Holla Forums we need to pick up the banner of ending the SJW assault on visual novels. The SJWs demand perfections and complete harmony so that snowflakes won't get triggered. Can't they see the beauty in the imperfections in YMK? ONLY A PHILISTINE POSTMODERNIST could not see the western tradition, reaching back to Plato, Machiavelli and Sun-Tzu, embodied in Aeka's fucked up eyes or that one scene which is obviously supposed to be a flag for a yaoi route but got removed. The looping gifs and perfectly spherical tits on that one milf the MC fucks in Sagara harks back to the cleanly cut lines Michelangelo carved into marble when he made David.

Jordan Peterson is a shining light in our age, he is not afraid of the socjus assault on his RIGHT to post nakadashi jpegs on his UoT homepage

You're not. Stalls are individualistic, you cannot explain them by reference to women's preference for intimacy. By your logic, women's bathrooms would have paired toilets.

you're a joke

I mean I have been yelled at for liking katawa shoujou. Something about how it paints an unfair picture of disabled people. I tried to tell them it was mostly allegorical, main character literally has a broken heart for gods sake. But nooo.. I'm fetishizing the disabled and this is 'disgusting'.

weeb bullying is real.

Why do so many people call neolib idpol adherents "Marxists" it's some of the most irritating shit. I don't even understand how this came to be.

psueds want the pretense of economic knowledge without actually having it so they just pretend it's relevant to their petty idpol squabbling

You should be yelled at for liking a meme vn

I prefer stall unless I'm in a hurry

Read Hegel and Marx's philosophy before going full on vulgar liberal "materialist."

China will show you what God is.


this karen nigger is far and away the worst tripfag on this board. why is shitposting like this tolerated?

If Peterson weren't an idiot he would realize that Marxism is the greatest self-help you can get tbh.

is he permanently triggered?

That's actually a modernist view. Postmodernists like Jean-François Lyotard would reject grand narratives and redistribute faith into micro-narratives (i.e. we must socially deconstruct and decentralise the structures which ourselves and others inhabit). Peterson's own philosophical mindset is over a century old and, frankly, out of date with our contemporary understandings. Besides, actual postmodernity ended two-and-a-half decades ago when the Berlin wall fell.

I wonder how much Peterson has actually read of Jung. I assume the "fighting the dragon" schtick is related to Psychology of the Unconscious as an individuation process ("Translated psychologically, the dragon is merely the son's repressed longing, striving towards the mother; therefore, the son is the dragon"), so isn't that just a representation of the Shadow? Which leads me to ask, has he ever mentioned this? It seems like an extremely important detail, considering that, in itself, is crucial to the development of a Jungian individual.
Then again, I'm only basing this off of what I've read from Jung, so who knows.

there's no such thing as being 'politically neutral', liberals, mainstream sj-lite liberals as well as petersonites love the pretence of political neutrality. The truth is late capitalism has created a formless and meaningless world, in which the human exists only as an object to be shaped by outside forces, a world that wants to forget its problematic past and would rather not think about the catastrophe that awaits in the future. There are some very real flaws and contradictions to the ideology of managerial liberalism, which relies on individualism but at the same time undermines the bases of individualism. In our post literate, post modern world, lofty ideas about Humanity, the Soul, etc. have given way to a fragmentary collection of 'identities' and desires, the only commandment is 'express yourself'. The old humanist ideals might have been misused, but those same ideals were also the force behind the great movements of liberation of past centuries. Nowadays, there's hardly anything that can motivate the normie middle class subject through its wageslave duties, except for a vague sense of shame. Part of it has to do with new technologies which have displaced the old literate cultures, part of it has to do with the failed revolution of the 60s which broke down traditional structures, but left the atomised subject in a void, part of it has to do with the technical necessities of managing a society that is increasingly diverse and yet demands ever more efficiency and uniformity.

Have you ever watched that documentary the centruy of the self?

It goes into great detail about freude and bernays and conformity and individualism.

But he never mentions jung.

So what would a jungian society look like?
The century of the innerself?

I noticed since trump was elected things have gotten very jungian.

Remember all those nicknames trump gave to his oppenets. Lil marco, low energy jeb.

Those are archetypes.

Jung has come up a lot lately.

Synchronicity i guess…..

Oh and trump is basically americas shadow. Definitely the shadow of liberals and leftwingers.
He is what america really is.
Even when people are saying that he doesnt represent america. Yes, he does.

The Century of the Circlejerk. Archetypes are essentially memes. A Jungian American would be Holla Forums in how they celebrate how great they are through no effort of their own.

I watched Hardon's remix of the Peterson Channel 4 interview. There was a lot of bullshit in there as OP quite rightly points out. I think this is my third time watching this rather dull conservative catholic. I picked up on the central point that Peterson is pushing quite easily: "The search for truth demands that we risk offending others". This argument is incontrovertible; history is littered with the names of those who advanced our knowledge of the world by making statements that offended their peers. Given the SJW demand for "freedom from offense" is a central tenet of their ideology, OP's persistent posting about Peterson's right-wing bullshit will steadfastly ignoring this point he uses to introduce it is looking a lot like an SJW attempt to poison the well.

It’s pretty evident he was referring to this when he mentioned liberals


He erased this post. I'm curious what were the reactions from his followers.

I can still see it?

There is so much wrong with this. Jung wasn't a postmodernism and neither is Peterson. Petersons view of truth is that truth is that which is conducive to human floruishing which is closer to the pragmatist view.

I've listened to a few Peterson videos, I'll admit I haven't read his book or anything but the jist of what his argument seems to be is:
1. Marxists and Marxism are evil because they killed muh gorillions
2. Postmodern Philosophy is just warmed over marxism.
3. Postmodern / "neo marxist" ideology(le frankfurt school meme?) is responsible for SJWs, trans pronouns

Overall Jordan Peterson's ideology seems to be very confused, his view is essentially that truth is that which promotes human flourishing (pragmatist). I basically realized this explains alot of the very odd arguments he makes, like saying Marxism must be false because the gorillions.

It goes without saying that just because a person or group of people has been violent, has no bearing on the factual validity of their claims or arguments. Basically Peterson only thinks he has an argument because he conflates abstract logical arguments with moral standing. Basically, pic related

That's Peterson's claims at to the origin of the SJW's ideology and if you look at the origins of Poststructuralist philosophy and Critical Theory, he's not wrong per se. It has little bearing on that validity of his point that demands for "freedom from offense" are an insult to the inquiring mind.

When I think of poststructuralism I think of Althusser / Judith Butler, how is poststructural feminism related to being offended exactly? I thought it was about gender being a social construct

he would be right if his message didn't fall almost exclusively on the ears of people who now think spamming nigger in twitch chat is revolutionary intellectualism

The guys a moron ……but he has a degree so everything he says must be right in the world of the rationals™

i like how colleges are jewish cultural marxist soros indoctrination camps and also the reason you should listen to kermit

Have you not noticed post-structural feminists complain stridently when something makes them "uncomfortable"? They're implementing a demand for uncritical acceptance of the other. Nevermind if the other is a raving psychotic in dire need of big syringe filled with thorazine…

Come on now; that his audience are overwhelmingly trained chimpanzees is hardly a refutation of the man.

it doesn't say a lot positive about his efficacy. and the fact that he's got nothing bad to say about his chimps should probably raise a few red flags anyway



It sort of is.

You both speak as though shepherding dumb animals doesn't require skill and intelligence.

stupidly shepherding stupid animals because of stupid things you say and do requires neither

It's been nice talking to you. Bye.

what? i'm literally exclusively going off what you said

wait a minute, i think he's got a point.

He definitely is a qualified psychologist, i mean he just spouts typical defeatist self-help advice so that young people with genuine issues can sleep soundly and frames it as some grand self-improvement message and gets paid for it, somehow

Well he is certainly fleecing his flock. The best that can be said of him is that he is an effective snake oil salesman.

>Peterson wants $1.2 million a year to do his stupid self-help shit and shoddy "I thought about this a lot (but did no actual research)" reactionary rants
And he might just get it holy shit

It requires skill and intelligence for a dog.

If only it wasn't for neoliberalism you wouldn't be a loser and it is neoliberalism to believe otherwise.

The cultural push is already to internalize all your failures and not look to social causes. At least here in Burgerland, there tends to be this almost violent reaction against people pointing to social causes to these largely social woes. I think it's about time we looked at the social causes of social problems instead of continuing in the belief that self-flagellation will cure the plague.

If a guy can't get a gf, is it women's fault?

No, but society had likely played a heavy role in why a guy couldn't get a gf. In a society like ours, where a whole generation, both male and female, is having difficulty with love life, this points to a greater social problem, and no amount of self-help crankery is going to solve a greater social problem.

Why doesn't anyone ever care about female incels?


A lot of the more man-hating tumblr feminism is from frustrated female incels.

You're right. Society socialised women to want badboy chads and not 200 pound neets like me. I should therefor not change myself and instead create a political system in which girls not only have to be my gf but have to like it too.

Are you people really that butthurt he won that debate about the gender pay gap? Goddamn.

It's pretty easy to win a debate against other liberals.

Maddox won the debate about the gender pay gap.

We don't care about whatever slapfight he gets into with liberals. The reason leftists loathe him is because he talks out of his ass about leftist philosophy he does not understand.
It's common conservative rhetoric in the US: associate anything you don't like with communism.

Or create a society with less social alienation, atomization and poor health, and greater opportunities and conditions for the youth.