Lets have productive discussion

Literally what reason is there to be a conservative anymore? Everything you people tried to "conserve" has crashed and burned and it's not going to change.
Didn't work, women can vote and gays can marry now.
Didn't work, gov't is massive in contrast to the founding fathers' vision.
Didn't work, Free Love movement happened.

Exactly what is there to "conserve" anymore?

one side has brought immense suffering to untold numbers of people, all of this forgotten and not talked about because the glory of profits and luxuries for the developed world (and what's considered developed is shrinking with every passing year).

the other side being about the emancipation of humanity through the struggle of the working people.

these sides are not equivalent.

also communism is NOT an ideology

Is there some coherent argument?

What about him? Girls don't like lazy fucks. He will be outcompeted by scientists and engineers.

< LeftCom false-flagging as generic Marxist
I noticed your flag got changed.

I guess Marx was a Leftcom then, according to you?

Sorry buddy, but your question is way too broad to be answered comprehensively here. If you wish to genuinely learn about left wing view outside the histrionic and paranoid rants of right wing pundits and 'intellectuals' I suggest you read some left wing theory.
A video series on marxian economics:
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8B2364D7C0D31D63
Engels - Socialism: Utopian and Scientific
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1880/soc-utop/index.htm
I'm sure others can point you in a direction of other introductory texts to left wing political theory

He never made a cult out of terminology.

Did you ever wonder why Marx never talked about "capitalism," only the capitalist mode production?

In what sense? It seems like most of you guys care strongly about social cohesion and strong social bonds within communities, and so do people on the left, but we generally think such things are largely rooted in economics- the atomization of modern society is primarily a result of the capitalist system, not greater personal freedom for women and gay people or anything like that which right-wingers frequently blame. Another big thing you guys seem to obsess over is immigration, and while those of us on the left don't really have a problem with immigration per se, we wish to eliminate the issues that cause mass migration in the first place such as imperialism and economic exploitation.


The "human nature" argument is absurd when one considers that agrarian societies all throughout history were essentially communistic in most regards. Communism is defined as a stateless society with common ownership of the means of production, and while I know you guys tend to scoff at the "not real communism" argument, places like the Soviet Union and China obviously did not fit that definition. Rather, they were intended to be a transitional state in order to build the proper conditions for such a society which would eventually dissolve when they were met. I suppose its debatable whether such a thing would have actually happened, but the extreme opposition from outside forces certainly didn't help anything (right-wing boogieman George Soros alone spent billions working to destroy the Soviet Union). The lesser-known anarcho-communist societies such as revolutionary Catalonia changed to a stateless society without a transitional period, and while they were eventually destroyed by outside forces they were pretty nice while they lasted.
There are plenty of valid criticisms of the M-L states but they were still a massive improvement over monarchy. The most frequently used argument against them is that X number of people died under them, but those numbers are based on bogus criteria that blame the system for nearly any death that wasn't of old age- even the researchers whose data was used to calculate those numbers have called it out as bullshit. According to those same criteria, the capitalist system is far, far, worse, causing over 10 million deaths per year.


Which of Marx's works have you read? Not trying to be condescending here, but usually when right-wingers say they've read Marx that usually just means they've read the Communist Manifesto which isn't terribly relevant these days and doesn't really explain any economic theory. Marx's analysis of the capitalist system actually praised many aspects of it, but he found it to be ultimately unsustainable for reasons such as the falling rate of profit which has continued exactly as he predicted.

This is (You) for you.