JUCHE WINS AGAIN

The idea of a nuclear button is kind of dumb though. What happens if you trip and fall and press it by accident?

Collectivize nuclear weapons.

Would you rather a nuclear lever?

It's in a drawer.

No it isn't.

Safest option IMO is to set up a computer system that automatically sends nukes whenever you're attacked by nukes.

They probably have that too, but somebody's got to launch the first nuke.

It's kind of funny in a morbid way that the possible end of life on the planet could hinge on what amounts to an internet slap fight between two egotistical retards.

Problem with that is it'd take 30-60 minutes after launch to determine where it's going with any accuracy, which is why the US, Russia, and China are probably going to launch everything they have at everyone they can if it comes down to it.
It's called mutually assured destruction for a reason.

I'm not shilling for America you fucking faggot
I literally called it a shithole

Being in a drawer on his desk would still on his desk user.

If you attack DPRK in any way then you are indirectly supporting American hegemony. Until America is back to being a shitty little regional power you need to shut the fuck up.

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It would be in the desk, not on the desk.

I know how desks work user, if it's in a drawer it's in his desk not on his desk. Pic related it's how desks work.

Peak fucking ☭TANKIE☭
There's no arguing with you, nationalist cunt

Have you tried taking communism and class war seriously, instead of some vague ideology that requires ideological purity or some shit?

Maybe if the workers actually own the means of production in his nation I'd agree with you but so far it's pretty damn state capitalist and I see him more concerned with bitch fights with the US than turning it into communism.

I dont care about kim-samas policies so long as he glasses some burgers

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Class war is a real war. With real soldiers, real casualties and real battles. Introduce yourself to Operational level of war, and leave imagining what the peace conference will look like AFTER you win.

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You think after 60 years of supporting US/western imperialism in the name of leftism anarcho-liberals would finally realize that their whole "strategy" isn't working?

back to >>>/anarcho/ you manchild

You seem to unwittingly be arguing that a communist society can't organize and engage in war in any meaningful way. And you call me an opponent of communism, hmmm.

No, I am explicitly saying that a (proper, decentralized, non-authoritarian) communist society can't organize and engage in war in any meaningful way.

There's a line between wanting ideological purity and supporting dictatorships that undermine the image and goals of socialism

REMINDER: The US no longer operates their nuclear arsenal on a "launch-on-warning" doctrine, but has since 1997 opted to stand by a doctrine which decides retaliatory action only after riding out a first-strike.

A North-K launch does therefore 'not equal suicide. Well, not direct and immediate.

The primary goal of socialism today is the destruction of the unipolar world and American hegemony.

You believe DRPK is one of those?

Doesn't the collapse of the Soviet Union and subsequently lowered standards of living in Western countries where the capitalist class primarily resides show those countries that capitalism isn't worth it? Wouldn't that have a higher chance of inciting revolution where it really matters instead of far away from the key capitalists? It essentially allows for lowering their guard and for destruction from within instead of trying to impose destruction from outside.

good plan kimmy

The US deserves it honestly.

Clarification: Unlike in fiction nuclear missiles cannot be aborted. Ever.
Too much of a risk (anything above zero, that is) that they might be purposefully aborted by the enemy in-flight, you see.

Due to the wind-down after the end of the Cold War, firing everything on the first sign of trouble was, with reason, seen as excessive and risky. What if you couldn't tell if it was the Chinese or the Russians who fired, because the lone missile was launched right from their border? What if it was a mistake or perpetrated by a rogue operator? The world became too much of a grayscale for the former black-and-white nuclear deterrent.
Since modern submarine based missiles provide an reliable and extensive arsenal for a second-strike and are unlikely to be knocked out, the luxury of taking time with positively confirming the target became an realistic option. While coldly analyzing the situation with accuracy and weighing the options to select an reasonable counter-punch and a absolutely correct target for the response (as "reasonable" and "correct" as this nonsensical apocalyptic atomic ass-banditry comes) while your city/cities burn might sound uncaring, but is slightly more rational and less devastating than first shouting "FIRE EVERYTHING!!1!" following it with an "oops" to outshine all "oopses" after noticing that it was a scientific rocket that was what was mistaken for a missile, like what almost happened in 1995.

Do you have a source for this info? I'd like to learn more.

I don't know much about nukes but don't the US and other countries have huge defense systems to prevent this?

On the contrary. Dissolution of USSR against people's will showed superiority of capitalism, despite its flaws. If USSR managed to hold on for another 25 years, even if revisionist, 2008 would've been a global 1917.

Happy Nuke Year lads :)

archive.is/HbuXi

BURGERS BTFO

actually..,, you are?

Cool didn't know about that thread, looks like you can have workplace democracy and still be a world superpower.

The DPRK will never strike first.

Hello CIA.

My knowledge is quite literally Wikipedia-tier, I'm afraid. Fortunately these articles are somewhat well endowed with source references.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_on_warning
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction#Criticism
armscontrol.org/act/1997_11-12/pdd

Read Kim Jong-il

Here's a better article with VIDEO.
abc.net.au/news/2018-01-01/north-korea-war-closer-than-ever/9296452
KJU has such a deep, manly voice, holy shit.

...

Based

Good, this means there will NEVER be a war between the DPRK and Burgerland. This means good news from most burgerstanis.

There was once a time when we mocked retards like you in twitter threads, now retards like you have invaded the board.

Nothing more socialist than supporting the deaths of proles because their leaders are especially bad.

The DPRK has nothing to do with class collaboration, it is a socialist country.

Where were you when the US threatened the DPRK and their workers with very real genocide then?

There's so little to say either way, but my point is that posters like this retard would be saying the same shit if it was any other country.

In my powerless position to change anything the US government does. Stop thinking like a fucking nationalist and equating a people's government with the people.

I have mixed feeling. One on hand they have the right to defend themselves and this is a good deterence but on the other hand I don't want to die in a nuclear explosion (all though I guess it would be worse for the survivor since I would be wiped out pretty quick if they were to target DC while they have to live in a nuclear wasteland or die slowly from radation.)

Wishing for the destruction of the American empire (not the US itself) is revolutionary defeatism not class collaboration.

wrong

So why are you on a communist forum? Just fuck off you nihilist.

The DPRK will never strike first, their nukes will PREVENT WAR.

I hope so. Hope trump doesn't strike first.

What he said was in no way nihilist, also nihilism and communism are extremely compatible.

And in order for that to happen the proles of sieged countries must collaborate with their ruling class.

I'm currently powerless. I'm not talking about the future.

It's not gonna happen. KJU says the nukes guarantee peace, he's clearly better informed on the issue than anyone here. During the entire cold war, nobody struck first.

lot of people almost did just accidentally.

So? They didn't. Why freak out over the DPRK then? There's the USA, India, Pakistan, China, Russia, Israel, etc.

What will actually happen in the long term with NK if it's never invaded. From what I know it is becoming more open with each successive regime (relatively speaking). Could it just fold and succumb to revisionism like the USSR in the next 50 years? Will it pull through the sanctions on the back of illegal smuggling of oil to them now becoming a profitable venture, as well as heavy investment in solar, wind, etc? It would be pretty neat if it became hyper sustainable and no longer cared about the sanctions.

One thing's for certain, a lot more options opened up simply by having a nuclear arsenal. It's a pretty good start to a new year.

They have already accomplished full independence other than the oil. They're also hyper sustainable, like 70% of their energy comes from hydro, and most of their population has a short walk to work instead of a long drive. All that's left is for them to get some nuclear power stations up and a bunch of solar panels/wind, and put geothermal AC/heat in their housing.

Is there anywhere I can read more about their economy and so forth, I'd prefer a source that isn't the DPRK government as for obvious reasons they may be biased, and if I stated that as my source in a discussion it obviously wouldn't be seen as a valid source.

Why wouldn't it be seen as a valid source? Why would you trust an outsider to give you information more reliable than from the original source?

Try explaining that to someone rabidly against the DPRK. I'm obviously not at that point, but they obviously want to project an image of strength and success. It would make sense for them to hide economic/supply troubles.

the purpose of the DPRK's nukes isn't to launch them, it's to pressure the ROK into kicking out the U.S. troops and establishing a bi-national confederation, which has more support among the south korean left than the U.S. / western media assumes (or even dares to acknowledge).

decades from now this could conceivably lead to reunification with the korean workers party in charge, since it's doubtful the party will tolerate a multi-party system.

at least that's the goal. and it's pretty smart.

Read the DPRK thread, there are lots of western/bourgeois sources cited in it.
archive.fo/pRkxK

it might be the closest thing to an actually-existing Asserist / nazbol state IMO.

personally not the biggest fan of that, and the korean ethnic nationalist stuff that seems to be a major theme there – although only to a more extreme degree than the same stuff present in south korean society. it would be something if after all these years, and years from now, that the DPRK comes out on top. i believe that it's entirely possible.

No it's not, shut the fuck up. The DPRK is one of the greatest modern achievements for indigenous rights.

And sources from outside the DPRK obviously want to project an image of weakness and failure. It would make sense for them to invent economic/supply troubles. In such a situation it makes more sense to trust the original source than an outsider.

see

It is perfectly feasible to find information that supports the DPRK in bourgeois sources, you just have to dig a bit to get past the lies and propaganda.

I know all of this my friend, but if I try to talk to people about this on other boards or in person I'll be written off as a lunatic.

so read the DPRK thread.

That's literally the plot to Dr Strangelove, it doesn't end well.

I'm not a ☭TANKIE☭, but damn is pretty much everyone except maybe syndicalists stupid guilty of this.

Wow I had no idea this was the real goal. It makes perfect since, the joint factories with SK that NK used to do never made sense to me in the context of them being bitter enemies.

like clockwork

Speaking as an American, you guys can all go fuck yourselves. So much for the internationale ideal

does your anti-Americanism go that deep? You support a guy that uses slave labor and essentially privatized his entire country's economy to the Chinese oligarchs.

Exactly, they call for communism while being nationalistic. They are contradictions

Stop calling them norks.

Kill yourself Burger chauvinist. Your country is guilty of genocide against the Korea people.

Gee I wonder why everyone hates us? It's time for the American empire to die.

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What a sophistry. Nobody who is for any kind of socialism advocates any harm to any proletarian population, no matter how spooked or permeated with reactionary ideas.

In fact they are permeated with these reactionary ideas despite them being against their material and class interests. That is why they lowkey understand their lowly status and long for anything that promises them dignity. Hence the rise of fascism.

When you know of actual historical genocides of mostly proletarian populations, one must be above this kind of propagandism, above warmongering and see them as ways that the ruthless machinery of capital and state perpetuates its existence.

tl;dr: no war but class war and they are waging the class war for centuries already

Put your trot flag back on.

why else is he killing his generals, the chinese government owns him. They keep him around to get the Us to waste more resources on NK while China is busy taking over Africa, South Asia and Latin America.

Fuck you too. Unlike in whatever country you live in callling yourself a socialist or communist in America will get you ostracized by your family, on a gov't watchlist, blackballed for jobs or possibly killed if you are influential enough.
The ppl that live in america aren't the same as the ppl who run america

Most proles in America don't want empire only about 20-30% do. Most just want to raise their kids and work. Calling for the deaths of millions today all because "20 to 60 years ago America invaded X country" is stupid.

Kim will only use nukes defensively, just like any other country. Google "MAD"

If Iraq had ICBMs that could wipe out DC, do you think Bush would have ever invaded Iraq?

not saying they arent defensive, im saying that the military industrial complex, oligarchs, and leadership in the military are somewhat sociopathic mixed in with genocidal (Evangelical Christians and their concept of endtimes).

Im sure if NK did something silly as placing a tank feet from the DMZ, the US generals and oligarchs would jump at the chance to start a war.

Ppl outside the US don't understand how Sociopathic, genocidal, arrogant and stupid our oligarchs and leaders are.

Speaking as an American myself, go fuck yourself. For the sake of the internationale ideal, America must fall

The internationale ideal is a reactionary concept that nowadays can only serve to reinforce American dominance. As socialists we must first and foremost focus on national liberation and support of any country's leadership fighting against Atlanticist hegemony.

shut up Dugin

do it faggot

< we need to exterminate anyone who opposes US, but it's okay - we'll call US shithole

I can't believe all the anti imperiashits in this thread holy shit. Treating communism as a "risk" game… Not caring about proles just DESDROI AMERRIGA GLORIOUS CHINK GOMMUNIZM WITH SLAVE LABOUR XDDD I know, it's easy to align to national conflicts, who needs to think about the real struggle of seizing government power whe you just can say "death to amerikkka"? Imho you faggots are doing the game of putin and the like, and in the end these people won't "destroy american empire" they will build a state of equilibrium where they can put you losers in a constant state of "norks ate fighting merica! Iran is fighting merica! Shithole xyz is fighting merica! We must only fight merica, and if you don't think of communism as solely nationalistic issues you are CIA!" So world superpowers will be able to go on protecting the interests of the international bourg while you shits thinks the real fight is about these national conflicts that never go anywhere.

Someone hasn't seen War Games…

American hegemony will be gone in twenty years. We should focus our efforts on spreading socialism, not on trying to force something that IS happing before our eyes.

2018 is lookin fuckin lit

The ones who are "anti-imperialshits" are not Communist, you degenerate. Those are SocDem or Liberals. It's just you've gone so far to the Right, you can't see any difference.

And US is the primary force that suppresses any Socialist activity on the planet - so there isn't inherently bad with making 'murrica start working for a living.

> there isn't anything

I very much know "anti imperialists" are socdems with a little tank in their posts. But you really are showing how people like you reason. After accusing me baselessly, you go on about "making ametica work for a living". The american prole is starved and pays fucking high his "being american" which doesnt mean shit anyway, he is a victim of the MERICA INC war machine, by putting this struggle into nationalistic terms we only go back to reactionnaireism, because we are not fighting for a new prole society just playing "risk: americasphere vs shitholes". If america disappeared tomorrow that wouldn't cancel the fact that 1 real communist movement is in a sad limp dick state that only cares about fighting america, which is useless 2 other states are against communism as much as america, DPRK included, they are only serving the interest of bourg/higher classes. By playing their game we are their whores to ditch in a pit after they have resolves power equilibrium. If america is n1 state against communism we should help american proles build class consciousness since this is the best moment to do it since 1929 probably. But since there are people like you who thinks along "the janitors deserved it" mindset, I don't have much hope. I mean I know, it's easier to just think "good vs evil" states, but communism isn't the easier choice just because you can't think that america is a fucking continent with shitload of proles in it

New Year Adress of Kim Jong Un, Juche 107 (2018) [English]
youtube.com/watch?v=8n1OLYNzb6A

"As a responsible power loving peace the DPRK will neither use nukes nor threaten a country or a region with nukes, as long as the aggressive hostile forces do not encroach upon the souvereignity and interests of our state, however we will resolutely cope with any acts disturbing peace and security of the Korean peninsula.
The WPK and the government of the DPRK will develop good neighbour and friendly relations with all countries which respect the souvereignity of our country and are friendly towards us and make positive efforts to build a just and peaceful new world.
The WPK and the DPRK government will not stop their struggle in advancing until the final victory of the revultionary cause of Juche is accomplished, relying on the trust and strength of the people, but bring earlier at any cost the future of a powerful socialist country where the entire people enjoy a dignified and happy life."

Freedom doesnt exist and true happines comes only from obedience
Read Quran

LONG LIVE THE IMMORTAL SCIENCE OF ANARCHO-JUCHE-POSADISM-ACCELERATIONISM! BASED MARTIAL KIM WILL BRING ALIEN SOCIALISM WITH A TRIAL BY FIRE~!

nice try, 'fellow leftist'

What a sophistry. Nobody who is for any kind of socialism advocates any harm to any proletarian population, no matter how spooked or permeated with reactionary ideas.
except burgers aren't proletariat, they're first world labor aristocrats and petit bourgeois at best

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Exept that you aren't a materialist, you are a "third world" romantic with orc vs human mithology

< I actually meant SocDems when I used the term "tankie"
Drink some bleach, will you?

You are the one who puts it into nationalistic terms. The largest Capitalists act through US.

My eyes. They bleed.

Socialism would get a much better chance of seizing the power. So far, only Fascist radicalisation is given green light by US-supported governments - and any attempt to dislodge them brings full might of NATO on the rebels.

So - yes. If US would fall apart, we'd have a much better situation all around the planet. Only utter retard can't see this.

< Cultural Marxism works, I swear
NO, IT DOESN'T
There is no class consciousness to "build", you imbecile. People either have it, or they do not. You can only provide solutions to the demands people already have.

Labour aristocracy is actually a thing. The best way to "build" class consciousness, is by cutting off US from its colonies and - through this - making US Proletariat come into direct conflict with US Bourgeoisie. You don't "build" class consciousness through pamphlets.

I don't even know what kind of strawman you are trying to pull here.

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Sudan isn't landlocked you pillock.

I am J. Posadas, and I approve this message.

Tankies ARE socdems, no real change only radical succdemism with no real answers. I don't care about the rest since you pretty much showed that you don't care about proletariat

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Molymeme.jpg

yes, could've posted that as well, but i prefered just calling you retarded instead. that's more fun.

Are you fucking retarded? Computers aren't god machines you know. They are fallible.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alarm_incident

You have to be at least 18 to post here.

WEW LAD!

pic related

I am not one of those who worship him but you need to go back

There have been studies into "post launch control" in the 1990's, but nothing more than thought and consideration has come out of it as far as I know.

Who are ☭TANKIE☭s, you retard? Bolsheviks? They are literally the ones who rejected SocDem and made them a swearword.

The only ones who remain are the uber-retarded anti-Marxists, who had been Capitalist lapdogs for over a century.

people are acting like the thread is some great text that shows the true nature of the DPRK. All that the thread has is aesthetic worship of (admittedly awesome) Korean architecture, and descriptions of the Taean work system. Their was no evidence to say that they don't have most of this ratified in constitution, but don't really adhere to it in reality, like most ML states.
If Pulitzer prize journalists have a hard time truly understanding the reality of North Korean life, then I doubt a tankanaon who has read some 38 north articles has a truly deeper understanding.

Fucking die.

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because you are not a communist, you are a larper who will most likely regress to liberalism in the coming years

Much better understanding than anti-communists screeching about enemies of happiness at the very least.

why did you post a pic of yourself user?

Thread theme
youtu.be/Mx1Et76Jtdc

or this
youtube.com/watch?v=M8hC298pXz0&t=0m7s

I disagree, these people talking of happiness are much better "communists" then those supporting a state that appears to be "proletarian". Communism, is at it's base the real movement to abolish the present state of thing, lead by the self interest of the proletariat. People itt questioning whether such a sacrifice of the lives of thousands of working men and women is truly nessisary for the sake of a state which may, or may not "build """socialism"""", is, in my honest opinion, the more communist take.
Don't get me wrong here, the fall of the North will most likely result in the introduction of neoliberal economic imperialism on the same scale as the introduction of capitalism (as if it truly left) to the USSR. However, with the opening of the Korean peninsula to the global market, not only will the people of korea be subject to the predation of international capital, but, because of said predation, they will also be exposed to the economic conditions that give rise to a true proletarian movement (along with a possible rise in living standards).
This is less glamorous a view then "pledging support for x states struggle against imperialism!!!!!!", but It is the same economic base take that should be taken by Marxists.
Without the economy first material analysis, our view become a tainted echo of what we truly should be standing for. The struggle for the emancipation of the Proletariat becomes a game of bourgeois statesmanship, as if we where playing a big game of Kaiserriech as this dumbass seems to think >>2336068

Yeah Zizek has denounced Stalinism and wouldn't go within a mile of supporting Juche

I fail to see how the proletarian struggle in the DPRK is somehow fake.

I don't get why do you think that NK >has< to strike now that they are armed with nuclear ICBMs. Do you dolts realize there are many other nuclear powers in the world apart from the US and the DPRK?

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Arguably it is a "proletarian struggle". But it is in the sense of any 20th century socialist experiment, that is flawed and perverted.
>I don't get why do you think that NK >has< to strike now that they are armed with nuclear ICBMs
I don't think anyone thinks this

This is basically a CURRENT YEAR argument, can you expand a little?

Then why the alarmism?

Horrible, horrible post. Please go away.

But is it real socialism?

I thought the criticisms of places like the eastern
block where pretty well understood and preached in burgrland
I'm not talking about nuclear war, I was talking about daily sacrifice.

No, it is Actually Existing Juche. Juche is post-marxist, stating that Marx was relevant but the thought of Kim Il Sung, that lead to the foundation of Juche, is superior.

so…revisionism

...

so the soviet union never had a nomenklatura that prevented actual strides to create the technical basis for communism in order to maintain a better standard of living then the average proletariat? And planning didn't become a technocratic shit show that left most movement of goods to a massive black market due to the inability of the Gosplan to properly meet the need of the nation? Also the plans set forth by the Gosplan didn't act on what was basically an internal market mechanism, making the Soviet union susceptible to the same economic stagnation's of capitalist countries?
well then, sign me up!
here's some relevant stuff
therealmovement.wordpress.com/2017/11/14/according-to-the-central-intelligence-agency-we-almost-reached-communism-by-1980/
therealmovement.wordpress.com/2017/11/17/how-the-argument-of-one-economist-helped-kill-the-soviet-union/
therealmovement.wordpress.com/2017/11/21/how-labor-hours-reduction-brought-about-the-collapse-of-the-soviet-union/

Everyone ITT should watch this.

DPRK has also sent over millions of balloon-dropped leaflets in recent years into the ROK pushing the idea of a confederation (most recently in August). ROK pres. Moon talked about the idea during his recent election campaign. The North Koreans have consistently talked about the idea going back decades.

The long-term plan is to create an expanded economic zone along the DMZ (much larger than the current one), followed by step two: a federation with a single foreign policy, but with two governments in control of their respective economic policies. Step three: reunification.

I disagree with the M-Ls who think the DPRK's nuclear program is to ward off the U.S. from overthrowing the government like it did Gaddafi. The DPRK has had conventional deterrence for decades in the form of its army and artillery forces. Not to mention China.

The point is to pressure U.S. troops into withdrawing with the ultimate goal being reunification. There are some who say the presence of U.S. forces in the ROK are necessary because the ROK army is not as willing to fight as many think, and that loyalty in the south is stronger to the idea of "Korea" than it is their government. Although I don't believe the DPRK is even thinking in terms of another invasion. (Also, IMO, I still consider the DPRK to be "Strasserist" and I don't like it, but a reunified Korea under the DPRK is better than nuclear war.)

In 1973, Kim Il Sung told Todor Zhivkov (communist leader of Bulgaria): "If they listen to us and a confederation is established, South Korea will be done with." digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/114533

So I'm much more critical of the DPRK than M-Ls but I also don't like how the western media makes the leadership out to be "insane" or presents KJU as a madman with "his finger on the button." They have had a long-term plan for decades, they're continuing with the plan, they have every reason to think the plan could work, and the dynastic leadership allows them to think in much longer terms than we do with our presidents.

KJU is going to be ruling the country for another 40 or 50 years.

...

Yes I did just make up the philosophical undering pinnings of Juche.

Big mistake. The key issue is that the "conventional deterrence" takes a shitload of labor and is very expensive. The drain on the DPRK labor force from their military drills was so serious that it allowed the USA to interfere with their harvest season by timing their own drills with harvests. The nuclear program frees all of that labor for harvests and construction, and it also has the advantage of building a significant amount of scientific expertise and technology in the country, which can then be used for other achievements.

Juche is literally just Marxism-Leninism + self-reliance. It is not post-Marxist or any other bullshit.

"Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost if you KEEP IT A SECRET! Why didn't you tell the world, eh?"

this, this, and again this.
the nuclear program was to free massive resources by first investing some more, rather than continuously be forced to invest into regular forces indefinitely
it's pretty much a textbook example of ML policy

if i make any such claims i always grab my source. why don't you?

And i'm now going to /leftpol/

nobody will miss you, liberal.

that is interesting! thanks. but the question is whether we see the NK now reduce its own conventional military drills since it now has a nuclear deterrent. i'm not so certain.

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That's just banter

i don't like liberals, that's correct.

this. liberals shit themself over nothing. "pls censor this, i'm sensitive! how can you praise the DPRK even ironically omg! such terror! i'm out, everyone notice me, i'm OUT i tell you!"
better go back to reddit altogether.

...

Huh, I stand corrected. I thought dude was quoting something else. Only can do quick glances on work toilet.

you are forgiven, i can relate

Ironic coming from the very high-quality posters that accuse everybody of being a kruschevite ☭TANKIE☭.

Why do people do this?

Nomenklatura never mattered. It's role is mostly imaginary, partially created from Trotsky's butthurt (who needed something to explain why he got kicked out) and partially from Khrushchev-Brezhnev war on Planned Economy (who needed an excuse to purge those they didn't like).

user, you are horribly wrong. There never was any "massive black market". Especially, not for industrial goods (in the late 80s there was a significant black market of consumer goods).

Nope. Market mechanisms got introduced only during Perestroika.

Note, that I:
a) interpret Khrushchev-Brezhnev revisionism as Technocratic
b) consider that restoration of private property (at a most crude level of "favours") begun during 1950s

However, Technocratic revisionism was explicitly trying to destroy Planning, while actual market mechanisms did not became active until after Gorbachev reforms.

It's hideously expensive deterrence that doesn't actually work.

The age of US chewing and spitting out weak regimes is over. Practically all minor nations now kneel before the international Capital. It's time for moderate-sized nations to bend the knee. If DPRK attempts to pursue conventional deterrence, sooner or later it will be invaded. Joining nuclear club - to become one of the Big Boys - is the only way for DPRK to avoid war with US today.

Which is no different from US, when it comes to Imperialism.

The deterrent is still far from being complete. I'd say it will take 5 years before DPRK starts relaxing.

Seriously? North Korea is shit and long ago disavowed socialism. There is no reason to support them, and that doesn't mean you support the US bombing them either. This "anti-imperialism" shit has gone too far. Fuck North Korea and fuck whoever supports them.("that doesn't mean you support the US bombing them either." yea it does)

IF YOU'RE NOT WITH US
YOU'RE AGAINST USSSS!!!!!!!

Hoochie or Stalinstash stop being assmad, if I get banned for this fuck you.

That's Holla Forumsyp "if you don't like Trump you voted for Hillary" tier logic.

This sort of thinking is how so many Trots became proponents of American imperialism during the Cold War.

Deserved ban, people who [don't give a shit if it's """socialist"""] are not part of the left, and it states explicitly in the rules those have to know their place.

< if it's not absolutely perfect kind of Socialism, it's no different from psychotic religious lunatics
That's not how it works.

If there was Bernie on election, there was no excuse not to vote for him (despite him being an obvious pseudo-Left scum). Similarly enough, in a DPRK/US conflict there is no reason not to support DPRK. Whether it is properly Socialist or not, it is sufficient that they are not whoring themselves out to international Capital and are not going to cause trouble for anyone if left alone.

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Nice greentext retard, but might as well greentext something he actually said next time.

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I actually went there tho. I'd doubt "Pulitzer price" journalists have access to better sources than everybody else who visits the country and has access to the internet - are you telling me that these journalists are superbrains that can find some miraculous meaning in the information which is already out there for everybody to see? I mean, you can follow the source track on 38north as well - most of the times they rely on South Korean articles or a Lankov book. They are only good when it comes to presenting raw economic data and updates on their missile program (and generally interpreting satellite images). One article on 38north describes a newly opened general store, this is a store that you can visit as a tourist, you could write the exact same stuff by booking a trip to the DPRK.

Oh, and let me also add that associates of 38north are also everything but unbiased. The so-called "North Korean Economy Watch" is a glorified blog run by a Zionist who hates on Jeremy Corbyn on Twitter. Great stuff.

First time I've ever seen a leader bow on stage to his audience.

my dick

BUT MUH "KIM FORCES PEOPLE TO WORSHIP HIM" NARRATIVE

Friendly reminder if you're banned or disgusted with the bans, then stop being a fucking abused housewife and go to >>>/leftpol/

This
Holla Forums is lost to ☭TANKIE☭s

This isn't sectarian comrade. Holla Forums is lost to retards and retarded moderation, and non-retarded MLs should migrate as well.

Holla Forums is ☭TANKIE☭ as fuck these days and i love it

I too enjoy the slow and rather obvious death of this board.

No thanks, most people I've seen on leftpol are against the Soviet Union and ML

I don't think all MLs are ☭TANKIE☭s
Tankies are contrarian ideological faggots who blindly lap up imagery and propaganda
MLs are generally cool guys who are well read

I have reported this thread to the CIA for North Korean subversion

Then ultralefts get offended when one rightly accuses them of being collaborationists.

I once went to New York, Times square was lovely, so i concluded that there was clearly no poverty in the city at all.
This is where I agree with you, North K isn't called the hermit kingdom for no reason, but why should I assume an anonymous internet ML can offer me a truly more in depth picture? or a non biased narrative?

this is just not true at all
a simple Wikipedia search can turn up
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_economy_of_the_Soviet_Union
not to mention the writing on the topic of the parallel economy
ucis.pitt.edu/nceeer/1993-900-03-Treml.pdf
Of course not, the soviet economy was geared towards primarily heavy industry, but as you say
I should clarify when I meant by this. I don't mean it was a market based economy as we would understand, I mean the Soviet economy still used a for of price signals to help allocate, leaving them to wrestle needlessly with the remnants of capitalism.

DPRK actually isn't socialist, though. I mean, they're groovy and all, good on them getting nukes, but their opposition to America&friends is pretty much all they have going for them.

careful comrade
they banned me without hesitation for stating my opinions politely
you should tread more carefully

actually, they are. read the DPRK thread.

It is true. There is literally no reason to think that nomenklatura was behind it all. In fact, everything points to the opposite: Party was steadily losing influence, until it was cut off from decision-making and banned.

Then there is no "massive black market" regulating Soviet economy.

Moreover, even if we go to consumer goods, this:
is still wrong. "Most movement of goods" was completely legal.

> I mean the Soviet economy still used a [???] for of price signals to help allocate, leaving them to wrestle needlessly with the remnants of capitalism.
What did it use? Market? That is not correct.

Absolute STATE of the current moderation and BO.

South Korea offers talks with North ahead of Olympics
reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles/south-korea-offers-talks-with-north-ahead-of-olympics-idUSKBN1ER041
They're just gonna keep winning and winning.

In 2018 the world will be further shocked by Juche Korea which will successfully build a powerful socialist nation by giving full rein to the great might of self-reliance and self-development.

And Kim's plan is coming to fruition: divide SK from the US.

So BO is just dropping all pretense and banning anyone who doesn't conform to his authoritarian shit views?
It's not like they're shitposting, most of these are decently thought out opinion posts
Until BO gets kicked out, I'm done with Holla Forums, I hope others will come with me to /leftpol/ and leave these ☭TANKIE☭s to circle jerk in their torture chamber echo chamber

It's fucking depressed how retarded BO et al have been acting recently and bringing down the board and forcing lots of users to leave. Ffs Holla Forums is/was one of the few good things on the Internet.

In case anyone was still on the fence about ☭TANKIE☭s not being socdems with more guns
and that's ignoring that you unironically used that image that was meant to trigger Holla Forumsyps by being as dumb as their usual "arguments" as your source

Fuck off back to reddit please and give us our board back

I'm sorry but the whole "Koreans must die for the real workers movement" argument is genuinely stupid, it's definitely not bannable but come on now.

#based Kim calling out the PRC.

Response to questions here:

flood.

I can see it now.

>"Hey, SK-chan, you wanna see what it's like being with a real man?"

I'll likely get banned for this post but fuck it. Accepting the framing set by the American empire that the acceptability of regime change and invasion is predicated on the "morality" of the state/state leader in question is cretinous and cedes the argument to them that they are the world police to begin with. Just like every person who insisted on the (obvious) truth that Saddam actually didn't have WMDs as if him having them would justify military action (and of course by accepting this framing as a public the US just ends up saying "whoops we swear we saw some and better safe than sorry"). Fighting imperialist propaganda isn't just to accept the framework of the argument and say "actually the opposite is true".

reverse ban nao

Lmao never change, you fucking pinkos

Actually it was BO himself for most of these bans

I like how this time last year we were mocking r/socialism for banning wrongthink.

Hit the nail on the head

It cannot be overstated how retarded and banworthy this post is. Neoliberal capitalism creates possibly some of the worst conditions for proletarian consciousness and revolution. In the neoliberal west, workers movements are at an all-time low, and in the exploited neoliberal hellscapes like india and brazil, proletarian interests are still less realized than in ebil iran and north korea. Neoliberalism seeks to decentralize capitalist authority and entrench individualized ideology to further strengthen capital's hegemony at the same time. There is literally nothing suggesting that opening up a neoliberal market economy in north korea would lead to a proletarian movement and plenty of evidence supporting the opposite. This moron is, wittingly or unwittingly, shilling for the CIA, Israel, American corporations, and neoliberal capitalism everywhere. Good on BO for banning this nigger.

Banning for wrongthink is bad if liberals or even further right-wingers do it. And r/socialism is infested with liberals.

Tankies aren't Bolsheviks, they killed the Bolsheviks.

good job driving the user count further down the shiter, Miss Piggy

Stop banning people for differing opinions. Its driving people away and its justifying the whole "the left HATES free speech!!!!!" narrative that the right likes to play

because so many prominent right wingers have used fucking leftypol as an example of leftists hating free speech. makes sense

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My predictions for Korea

Nuclear war is not a great "distraction," the American media can keep "distracting" Americans with capeshit movies and Russia conspiracy theories. The nukes guarantee peace on the Korean peninsula.

Serious question for someone who is pro-DPRK and knows a lot about it. Over the last year, I have become vastly more sympathetic to the country and aware that US propaganda is totally inaccurate. But what do we make of the US student who got detained for taking a poster and eventually died?

His symptoms were similar to an overdose or blood clot or something. Even imperialist sources can't give any evidence DPRK harmed him.
abc15.com/news/national/coroner-finds-no-evidence-of-trauma-in-death-of-otto-warmbier
In all likelihood the guy tried to kill himself. Totally unremarkable. You will find that everyone flipping their shit over Warmbier finds no problem with the fact that cops kill over 1000 people a year in America at point of arrest, and hundreds (>500) more in prison and jail.

I'm in a pretty similar boat actually. My opinion is the following. The DPRK government is comprised of socialists and presides over a socialist society. However, decisionmaking is made under a siege mentality that keeps the vulnerable state of the DPRK at a constant forefront. Because of imperialist meddling from the US, things that may be domestic issues become more oriented towards international geopolitics. Consider how Kim Jong-Un's addresses are disproportionately about the DPRK's foreign relations and goals on the international stage. This, along with the fact that the DPRK does regrettably seem to dole out fairly harsh punishments, culminated in them using Warmbier's transgressions to make a statement directly to US imperialism. Maybe it was a bit extreme, but as pointed out, its important to keep it in perspective.

SPENT THREE RACKS ON NEW CHAIN

ok you child
I'll fucking play this
If you disagree with me, then actually challenge me, unless you are too scared, and need to hide behind the coat tails of you BO
Then it it a good thing that proletarian action comes from material forces and not abstract ideological adherence. Ideological brain wash is not something inherent to "neoliberalism", because "neoliberalism" does not truly exist, it is simply the current incarnation of the capitalist system. And as all us Marxists know, Capitalism is doomed by it's own internal contradictions
Also, at no point was I fucking advocating for neolibralism, I just stated that it is an inevitable phase of capitalism

I agree, Workers moments as we know them are at an at a low. But this is because work as we know it in the west has changed. We can't exactly fall back onto the old trade unionism, because we have little industrial force to organize.
Even so, this does not stop discontent growing in the proletariat
sputniknews.com/us/201711041058813414-us-millenials-socialism-preference/
That's because they are literally capitalist m8, of cores they suck, fortunately both have good sized working class movements
yes, and? It's not like I disagree, fortunately for us, reality works against the neoliberal. More wealth has been concentrated in to fewer hands then ever before in human society, more authority has been given to the state in order to maintain a growingly unstable economy, neoliberalism has failed, not as an independent ideology, but because capitalism is inherently flawed. Neoliberalism may seek to do things, but the reality of class struggle exists objectively and regardless.
There is no evidence that workers will form soviets spontaneously under the first year of capitalism sure, but there will always be the conditions to do so
even Marx would agree on the globalization of the market
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1888/free-trade/index.htm

Jeez, any more baseless accusations here to add? Here are some other things I might as well be shilling for

In case you hadn't noticed, I did. So stop being a butthurt faggot

You're operating under an insane level of delusion. Its not the 1920's anymore. Capital is more pervasive than ever and challenging it means challenging imperialism and waging all-out war against it. Precluding AES and states that sabotage American imperialism is a fucking death wish. Capitalist states will just continue building up surveillance and police states, while trashing the environment until we're all extinct. The only feasible threat to the current neoliberal world order is, whether you like it or not, China, North Korea, Iran, Syria, etc. It doesn't mean communists should take their political systems as a model, it just means that subverting neoliberal capitalism in the first world in time to stop extinction requires solidarity with anti-imperialism in the third world. Capital might eventually fall apart because of its contradictions, but we don't have the time to wait for that. Human extinction is the price we pay for waiting around like morons for spontaneous proletarian action. Ending unchecked American hegemony is a prerequisite for meaningful change.

As if free trade in the 19th century is comparable to institutional neoliberal exploitation of the third world.

In your hypothetical world where the DPRK is dissolved in favor of a capitalist state, what is the alternative to said trade unionism? You certainly haven't proposed anything. Because truthfully, the left doesn't have anything as of right now that isn't completely obscure or irrelevant. The fact that you're unable to articulate a vision of north korea post-socialism is a pretty good indicator that you're just vitriolically against the regime because of propaganda you've internalized.

Millenials literally think Bernie Sanders is socialist. Show some real evidence or fuck off. Revolutionary discontent means more than a vague longing for social democracy.

As long as you're for the destruction of the north korean state, you're a useful idiot for the state department. No need to get emotional.

tbh I had a feeling a mod would take mercy on you, and even if they didn't I wanted someone else to disagree so we could have a conversation like this. The rest is just chan-culture dissing, don't take it so personal

autism

What did the President of the USA mean by this?

the nuke button is obviously meant to be his libido

pic related

also
south korea imports 90% of its food. lift the sanctions, see what happens

dude…holy shit. When people said he was a manchjild they weren't kidding.
Also, the US firebombed almost all of the north korean soil so how he gets to say that his country is starved without any sence of self-awareness is beyond me

This is a statement by a psychopath.

she did the right thing in this case tbh

Genuinely didn't though
We're allowed to not like authoritarianism, or are we banning all anarchists now?

The kind of banter you saw in a 90s online videogame

So you don't like DPRK fair enough, but you shouldn't dog whistle your hate of socialism

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What kind of logic is this?
I'm not dogwhistling shit, socialism is inherently anti-authoritarian

This is going be a year to remember.

Hey man, I see you around a lot, but I don't know anything about you
What's your deal, why are you named Naziposter?

He’s some random nazi who posts here instead of on Holla Forums

Good, fuck off imperialist

He's an NRx guy, an actual reactionary, like in the sense of 1789. He's chill tho

Jesus Christ people get banned now for not being ☭TANKIE☭ retards?
This board is officially dead.

Yeah, nah.

sure thing, kid. now fuck off and don't come back.

good. you should probably leave too.