Iran protests

Not enough to have a well developed opinion no

And I just mean like any group, don't have to be so hostile man geez

sorry for being hostile. and to be more specific about the parties you should know that iran is a very centralised country politically, as has been always, and theres really no big enough actor to create a powerstruggle. the parties with more radical policies and intentions are on the fringes of the political process much like in the western world, except that in iran its the centralised paradigm that keeps them there while in the west its the fallacy of left-right wing democracies.

Okay thanks guy

this. it's true for pretty much all their coups. of course they also create that pretext more often than not by sabotaging the economy.

Tankies everyone.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

cool it with the alarmism. These kinds of pathetic CIA-manipulated protests happen every once in a while in Iran, they haven't amounted to anything yet.

I doubt this is CIA. Iran's economy has been in the shitter for years now (partially due to sanctions). Unemployment in the country is extremely high, hence why many educated Iranian youth are migrating the fuck out of there.

Welp looks like the mods have gone full ☭TANKIE☭, they aren't even pretending anymore.

It's probably not but SeeIAyy will amp up support and funding to "pro western " groups in Iran

Also it's hilarious hearing associates of and children of the Shah's allies speaking about democracy in Iran

Does Tudeh still exist? Also why do the have a soc-dem logo?

Iranian electoral history, tl;dr edition:

Perhaps, but you can't deny the reasons for these protests in the first place. The CIA doesn't create something from nothing; they take advantage of pre-existing contradictions and use them to their advantage.

The CIA will attempt to take advantage of anyone going against the Iranian mullahs, but our solution can't be uncritical support for a Shi'a theocracy against any and all popular unrest. That's not leftism.

Man, the mods have really gone full retard.(but what about their (CI)AGENCY???)

Tankies gonna tank(it's not popular)

Do you seriously still believe in 'popular uprisings' like this after witnessing what happened in Syria and Libya?

this place is becoming tanky reddit

thats because these protests arent suppost to turn into a coup overnight, but because this is the policy of softening up the goverment apparatus with regular insurgencies to normalise them and create a better terrain for the real color revolution

why isnt this happening in US and its allies?

It is to some of them. Look at Spain for instance.

...

America will remove Trump from office with a color revolution designed to undercut gains from the resurgent left.

...

Manyof them will be in on it. Trump isn't real popular with entrenched establishment types.

Shi'ism is probably the least socialist form of Islam TBQH. It pretty much advocates geneticist dyanastic succession. Every "supreme leader" of Iran claims to be a seyyed, or direct descendant of Muhammad though Fatimah and Ali. Biological essentialism is reactionary as fuck.

What is Honduras?

What is Mubarak's Egypt?

What is Palestine?

hello where is the proof

nothing will happen. trump is a deepstate puppet that got elected on the count of his PR sweetalk and if the deepstate deems that the masses find him unpopular theyll just put some democrat party jerkoff in the oval office in the next election. this is basic D&C, the deepstate is playing pingpong with the dumbfuck masses that think elections actually matter.

id have ayatollah over alqeada anyday.

saved

I'd take secularism over ANY religious horseshit anyday.

a low importance puppet state that can be taken over by contras as soon as a goverment is formed.

The US gave the muslim brotherhood a green light to get their support on syria.

palestine isnt even in americas sphere of influence.

i would to, but try shitting in one hand and hoping in another and see which one fills up first

What makes you think Sunni fundies would be put in place of the Ayatullah in Iran, especially considering how Sunnis are like 15% of Iran's population?

Wut?

Israel is though.

The funny thing is the govt basically said "okay we got the message, we'll do a lot more to improve the economy and raise your living standards".
I mean, when was the last time a western "democracy" responded like that?
Here in the UK when you tell the PM austerity is killing people she kind of just shrugs and replies with memes.
Makes you think.

whoops forgot shitposting flag

Because the US and UK aren't unstable messes like Iran. Iran has to give concessions or else their regime is toast.

Lmao go to Appalachia, the the rust belt, any northern ghetto, the us is one economic dip from shambles

The US isn't under constant threat of being overthrown. No one in Appalachia is going to attempt to overthrow whomever is sitting in the White House.

The net result being it's more democratic than western "democracies". Something like Trump's tax bill would never pass in Iran.

Because, again, Iran is highly unstable. That's why they have to use extreme repressive force if the protests get too bad, like what happened in 2009.

Iran is not unstable, you gullible idiot.

Why does anti-imperialism require, nay demand that we leftists write apologia for shitty corrupt theocracies like Iran? Not taking a side is an option you know.

Iran just loves it's people back, that's all.

I bet you think Hezbollah are bad guys too.

That's how the Iraq war happened

Is being against regime change "apologia"? How is Iran "shitty and corrupt"?

You don't have to write apologia, just acknowledge that US influence is very likely any time these kind of "spontaneous" movements spring up. To pretend that this is an overblown paranoid concern is willful blindness at best.

This is happening everywhere user, capitalism is in serious crisis now and a major restructuring is underway.

...

I'm aware of US influence, I'm just pointing out that often we wind up with ☭TANKIE☭s trying to downplay Russian, Chinese or, yes, even Iranian imperial ambitions in the name of anti-imperialism. It's stupid.

I've talked with Iranian ex-pats, the IRGC owns half the country.

In what way is Iran imperialist? I hope your not falling for the Wahhabi-Zionist hot-takes that their “imperialist” because they support the Yemenis against Saudi genocide or because they send aid to the Lebanese resisting Israeli occupation.

I’m open to the notion that Iran could have imperial ambitions in the future but I’m not seeing much evidence of Iranian imperialism in the here and now.

NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK
CIA-backed protesters' MASSIVELY UNPOPULAR slogans:
>‘Forget Palestine’ or ‘No to Gaza, No to Lebanon, I will give my life for Iran.’”
>“Death or freedom,” “Care for us and leave Palestine” and “Political prisoners must be freed,”
nytimes.com/2017/12/29/world/middleeast/scattered-protests-erupt-in-iran-over-economic-woes.html
>Another slogan was “Iran haphazard, without the Shah”, apparently referring to the late king of Iran, Mohammadreza Shah Pahlavi, who was forced into exile in 1979 giving way to the the rise of a theocracy in Iran.
en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-protests-mashhad/28944529.html
twitter.com/GEsfandiari/status/946380908382351360

Palestinian liberation and support for Syrian government are massively popular with Iranian people:
cissm.umd.edu/sites/default/files/IranianPOOneYearAfter-FINAL-071316.pdf

The USA and Israel JUST LAUNCHED a new plan to destroy Iran a week ago:
jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-US-and-Israel-formulate-a-plan-to-stop-Iran-together-520306

This means nothing. In Pakistan the military runs half the economy. It's because they are the least corrupt and dysfunctional institution in the country.
You have to remember Iran has been under seige since 1979. And the entire point of an economy is to sustain and protect the nation and it's people. Read Adam Smith.

The CIA is obviously actively trying to subvert the internal affairs of American enemies; that's literally a key part of its task. When a suspect set of protests flare up assuming CIA involvement until proved otherwise is the most sensible position.

Massive pro-gov, pro-Palestine rallies taking place at same time
youtube.com/watch?v=zlkeVAuAZZA

More evidence for US-Israel new plan for Iran instability:
timesofisrael.com/report-us-israel-sign-secret-pact-to-tackle-iran-nuclear-and-missile-threat/

...

They do have a habit of setting up militias among the Shia communities in neighboring countries in ways that don't seem wholly defensive. The PMU in Iraq and things like the Fatameyoun brigades seem to me like attempts to gain political leverage outside of Iran's borders. Don't count on them disappearing when the Syrian war winds down either. Not full blown imperialism, but certainly meddling.

Ditto for China - the PLA has large and controversial influence in the economy, often being (part) owners of nominally private enterprises, directly or via veterans associations. Not sure it is to avoid corruption, like as not it has more to do with internal balance of power between various factions in the "regime".
It's just a hunch, to be sure. Though these quotes do seem to confirm my thinking.

Literally Saudi "Shia crescent" imperialist propaganda

Not imperialism, Iran is objectively the major force for stability and independence in that region. Their political influence is positive and anti-imperialist.

If they stay, it's at invitation of the legitimate Syrian government.

iranian sunnis are subordenate to the goverment. the only group to cause any trouble were sunni kurds in the northwest of the country but they got put in place.

You're making them out to be more anti imperialist than they are. Don't forget they literally funded militias to fight against the Soviets and the legitimate Afghan government back in the day, which is clearly imperialist.

Literally the exact same sort of discourse promoted by the US government.

thats been going on since the cold war, and the US backed turkey against kurds because they happened to be commies

sure thing. french revolution 2 in a few days right?

truly a geopolitical gamechanger

also
also

youre gonna have to try alot harder to convince everyone that a global revolution is happening, and even harder to make it happen

That's a fucking bouj notion and you know it

Wow, LITERALLY EVERY GOVERNMENT says it's doing good things… So we have to ANALYZE the situation and determine for ourselves whether it's true. In the case of Iran, it is objectively a progressive, anti-imperialist force in the ME.

Post Stalin USSR is social imperialist, Iran is still in the right

even CNN hasnt went to this level of retard

...

hot anime girls are not an argument

are you actually asking me "what is muslim brotherhood" while claiming to know shit about egypt?

my eyes hurt

In Pakistan it's about corruption, competence, reliability etc. Really, besides the military, very few institutions have those qualities there.
So the military does everything from building roads to running hospitals to chain stores - they even have their own miltary brand of cornflakes.
It's kind of ridiculous seeing people judging everything through a western prism which itself has gotten pretty ridiculous and being incredibly harsh in their judgements without even knowing the first thing about the reality on the ground in developing nations.
There's nothing unusual about the IRGC's power and influence.
It's like saying the French state is dodgy because of the overwhelming influence of l'ecole nationale d'administration.

Congrats.
reddit.com/r/shittankiessay/comments/7n3mcq/every_popular_uprising_is_really_cia_also_iran_is/

...

They are welcome though

It is dodgy though. The French bureacracy's insularity is anti democratic even by wishy washy liberal standards.

congratulations, you are a redditor.

this isn't a criticism, socialists shouldn't even be striving for democracy, democracy is shit and needs to be abolished just as much as capital.

This take is a bit too spicy for me.

I guess democracy in the liberal sense

Democracy isn't even the end-goal of communists. Communism is totally beyond the concept of democracy because there is no state.

No, people need to be forced to be free, otherwise they'll just be good little uncle toms for porky.

Have you maybe - just maybe - considered that there can be genuine material conditions that result in popular discontent?
Have you perhaps considered that the same forces that result in strikes in France, Spain, China and other countries, may just be at work in Iran?
Would you be willing to entertain the thought for just one moment that - even if they're spooked liberals ignorant of wider geopolitical realities
(I.e. Why Iran needs to fight ISIS and Israel) - they have legitimate grievances, outside the direct geo-political interests of Israel and the America?

>Iranian shitskins proles have no agency, they're just philosophical zombies controlled by ( ( ( Israel ) ) ) and the ( ( ( CIA ) ) ) :DDDD
Wonderful, have you perhaps considered moving to >>>Holla Forums? Call it a hyperbole. But it's going places. This thinly veiled anti-materialist racist orientalist garbage is a bit too common to pass off as naive ignorance.

Most people here should read pdf related. Imperialism (as per Lenin) refers to a specific set of relations. Mainly exploitation of land/labor by a foreign bourgeoisie.

He's right. Democracy isn't important, developing productive forces and combating commodity production/wage labor is.

wtf i love nazis now

I wouldn't say that these aren't organic demonstrations and some level, if not all, but to deny that the US has no interest in framing anti-government demonstrations as a popular movement worth "supporting" seems to be naive to me.

This is total nonsense, "it's communism I don't have to explain shit" tier. People will still need to decide on things collectively, things they might disagree on, and that will have to happen democratically. Socialism won't abolish disagreements, conflicting interest, and so on. We won't all turn into a hivemind.

Sure. It might be that. More like than not even. Probably a bit of column a and column b together.
The end goal of "military support" is usually to establish a relation of imperialism, or to frustrate the ambitions of a rival power. The Ayatollahs aren't doing any of this out of the goodness of their hearts, or because of fellow feeling with the believers.

Fucking hell, the Body Odor or whatever mod he still keeps around really lost it ever since the over a dozen US military bases in Syria deletion, hasn't he? This is ridiculous, none of these bans are justified. The nazi is actually right, this is Holla Forums tier. THIS IS THE REASON PEOPLE LEAVE Holla Forums IN THE FIRST PLACE, what the fuck happened to the mod team/B-O?

I don't care that people think these protests aren't out of the influence of agencies, this is nonsensical to ban people over it. I won't stand it, goodbye Holla Forums.

Bye I guess

Absolutely. The real news isn't that these protests happened - they're happening far more in the world than we realise - it's how massively hyped they were by the media. There's both wishful thinking and an official line at play here as there has already been a huge amount of grooming done by the media before now, similar to Iraq in 2002-3.

Sorry, read Marx and Lenin. They explicitly said that democracy, as defined by people voting on things for the state to do, is obsolete in communism.

This will shock you but democracy has meanings unrelated to the bourgeois state. If you refer to that, kindly use bourgeois democracy or another qualifier.

Go fight Marx and Lenin about it.

This is going to be interesting, I'm gonna sit this one out.

this is why everybody hates you

Looks like the US is paying to stir some shit in Iran. It probably won't amount to anything.

What do you mean by this?
Maybe not overthrow the government, but I'm sure the CIA will juice the most out of the situation.
Surely it will amount to what they need

what is the Gondola music?

SOunds like something out of a Miyazaki movie or something

great gondola my friend

Why? Iran has repeatedly defeated the USA in these attempts.

Yep it's from Howl's Moving Castle.

hot take: every popular uprising actually IS CIA. Doesn't mean that people don't have legitimate grievances, but popular uprisings don't go anywhere without patronage.

Eh, the US has been involved in regime change in Iran for a long time and has never really been successful long-term.

also retarded. You have to have an actual material, geopolitical analysis of the protest. Some protests are legitimate, some are reactionary or imperialist!

CIA or Mossad
Both will be trying to fuck with Iran. Saudis want it bad but they outsource this shit because any agency capable of toppling Iran can surely topple the Sauds.

thank you, it's "Merry-go-round of life"

All this means nowadays is "Who is Russia paying and who is America paying?" If America is paying, it's reactionary, if Russia is paying it's legitimate.

>blog.ale.com.pk/2009/02/06/askari-under-garmets/
nice

That's one heuristic, but every situation requires its own investigation and analysis.

Why bother? The "Russia good, America bad" model is nice and succint. A principled anti-Imperialist stance must always be pro-Russia and anti-America in third-world conflict analysis, as America is the actual seat of Power and anti-imperialism is just opposition to said Power. Why write long tracts on the minutiae of Bookchin theory as applied in Kurdistan - all you need to know is, America funds them, they're bad.

You're either trolling or an idiot.

kek, I love how easy it's to tell

I hope you are right then

...

No, I'm completely serious. When has the Russia good, America bad model failed to predict the correct side according to a principled anti-imperialist position?

It's not that obvious, desu
A lot of posters are their own parody

see what I mean, it's own parody

...

So by looking at the ban log, it seems like there's a new rule: we must unquestioning support reactionary regimes if they're not aligned with the US and assume that any protests and movements against them are actually US puppets without exception. Also don't forget: no criticism of Mugabe.

I really wish BO would stop beating around the bush and just post which views are politically correct and ban everyone who disagrees with them. Maybe then this board can finally die and rest in peace.

kek is this really a pro-Mugabe board nowadays?

Wtf we need to protect islamic theocracy from imperialism!

1st one, very comfy and Miyazaki-ish, very good, invokes a feeling of nostalgia for a place you never got around to seeing 10/10

2st one, was too spooky for my taste, doesn't fit the genre 0/10

3st one, as a Finn this invoked memories of my own life as a jonne, the imagery reminds me of my old hometown, my old school, my old grocery store, its beautiful 10/10

No, we just have a pro-Mugabe BO.

[User was banned for this post]

lol

red monarchism needs to be formalized as a political stance, lots of anti-imperialists are basically red monarchists anyway.

lmao this exchange is gomedy cold :D

That already exists.

darkagenewsnetwork.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/red-neoreaction/comment-page-1/

They also like Unruhe (see linked blogs). You may be unto something here.

Fam, I can’t believe a poster as intelligent as you can’t honestly see the pattern yet. First, came the fall of the regime in Egypt that had been pro-US in the past but was now at odds with US-Israeli geopolitical goals. Then came the color revolution in Libya which was an armed uprising from the start that led to one of the worst bloodbaths of this decade finally ending in direct NATO intervention, a massive refugee crisis and outright slavery. Then came the same color revolution in Syria which led to the rise of genocidal rebels and islamists throughout the region who were armed to the teeth by the US-NATO-Gulf state alliance. Then came the Maidan “revolution of dignity” that led to the Odessa Massacre of leftists and trade unionists by fascists, the rise of the far-right there and a ban on communism and the communist party and a civil war between Ukraine and it’s Russian-speaking regions due to the virulent racism of the fascist hordes that pushed their way into the centers of power in Ukraine.

They’ve run the same operation dozens of times now and honestly in the beginning being confused about this was understandable but now I would hope the moral and CIA-compatible leftists would have learned something.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=63zv2z5wcRo

It can always be said that there are legitimate grievances besides such movements but that’s no reason to support them. In the same way that the real grievances of workers who were drawn into the Tea Party, the Libertarian movement and the Trump campaign is no reason to support any of them.

It’s always funny to me that we always have to support these CIA-Mossad-Otpor operations to be good leftists, according to the moral Left, but we must ignore or condemn pro-government protestors as useful idiots and tools of the regime even when they are more popular and express more radical sentiments then these Astro-turf “revolutions”

It’s very telling to me that the protestors are condemning the Palestinian struggle in their supposed revolt against the Iranian regime. Where is the proletarian and anti-imperialist internationalism?

Wonderful, have you perhaps considered moving to >>>Holla Forums?
This is #Resistance Twitter-tier, I’m not surprised at all that the anti-anti-imperialist elements of the board have resorted to the brand new liberal canard of calling anyone who has a critical dissident opinion when it comes to the humanitarian imperialist narrative of the moment as being some kind of far-rightit, Russian/Iranian troll or tin-foil hat type. There’s a clear pattern here that you obviously did not want to deal with.

when was the last time theory amounted to anything without *greater backing*

I was perusing this yesterday, I feel like the author isn't the sharpest guy out there, but I'm judging him based on his writing style. It's still a neat idea, I suppose.

Well, if you think about it, left-wing theory has increasingly moved away from/revised pure Marxism towards power analysis. See Lenin inventing the concept of imperialism, Mao, Gramsci on institutions, Hardt and Negri, Phil Greaves-tier anti-imps on the Internet, etc.

The key point here is emphasis on power centers, financial patronage, and institutions as opposed to the dialectical development of the forces of production or whatever, and resisting American expansion of power. Since I saw you also read neoabsolutism, you could basically predict how tortured these theories would become when trying to incorporate Marxist theory because of the fundamental differences between Marxist/liberal-type theories and pure power analysis - see the endless debates over what counts as imperialism as just one example.

the same reason we would protect a state capitalist cult of personality looking at your flag

Of course I see the pattern. Libya, Syria, Ukraine, etc. Including several instances of unknown snipers firing into crowds, communications being targeted to frame governments for "blackouts", etc.
But that doesn't mean that agitation is just conjured out of thin air. You need a material basis for unrest: Be it poverty, unemployment, income inequality, etc. Something that is causing friction at some level. Even if it's due to a temporary economic downturn, drought, etc.
Washington fans the flames, they co-opt, spread false rumors, etc. But at the end of the day you need someone, a vessel for your infiltration and sabotage.
I'm not arguing that these movements cannot be co-opted or that they aren't. Just that there is a reason for people to go to the streets in non-western countries for reasons other than "Soros bucks" or because the CIA is paying them.
That's the difference between a materialist and an idealist stance: Recognizing that people rise up for 'legitimate' reasons, but are then manipulated by third-parties (as always happens with mass movements). Instead of the idea that they're all mindless drones on the CIA-Mossad payroll, and have been since the beginning.

This is why it's so important to combat poverty and anything else that may be a point of fracture: Every (liberal) popular movement is a potential fifth column. Regardless of their well-meaning (misguided) intentions.
If there's any doubt left: I don't support these movements. Not in Iran, not in Syria, not in Venezuela or China. I'm about as anti-liberal as can be.

Tankies are so stupid they don't realize you can oppose a LITERAL THEOCRACY and imperialism at the same time. Theirs is such a simplistic view of the world that it truly boggles the mind. It is the black and white understanding of a Republican, but with a fetish for strongmen with mustaches(no you can't)

That's true, but you're setting up a bit of a straw-man when you say "the idea that they're all mindless drones on the CIA-Mossad payroll". I'll bet no-one actually implies this, but rather simply offered a condensed opinion that assumes all of what you say.

you wanna know why communist revolutions and socialist countries arent a thing anymore? because theres no "socialist" power to back them and because leftists in grassroots movements are to retarded to participate in the real world or just sell out at the first turn.

so which are you? the perpetual jerkoff or the sellout?

But this will literally always exist until we get FALC you idiot.

The CIA is incompetent. When you read up on their foreign operations they can only do two things:
1 Give weapons to local actors with grievances
2 Wage ineffective psyops like letter writing campaigns from fake organizations.

No, stop this nonsense. The USA controls over half the world. No organization that controls half the world is "incompetent." Is the CIA comprised of fallible human beings who make mistakes and can be defeated (as Iran is defeating them)? Yes. Is it incompetent? No. They are highly professional.
lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/part-1/

Did I argue otherwise?

I hate to be that guy but
if you get banned go to >>>/leftpol/

Ayatollah Khomeini, I'm CIA.

Fucking this >>>/leftpol/

Here's the spread of the protests as of this morning

Can someone do me the meme smiley with the clerics and "When you want to start hardliner protests to drive further foreign intervention, but accidently start off a large round of anti-government protests for isolationism".

Put 👏 down 👏 the 👏 Chomsky👏 pick 👏 up 👏 the 👏 Parenti👏

b-but what if the protesters start a revolution and usher in a socialist regime?
Why, as ☭TANKIE☭s, do we need to uncritically support the Iranian state? What actual evidence do we have that the CIA is funding the opposition?

TBH this is my problem with the TANK interpretation of imperialism. Yes, imperialism without a doubt is bad. But IMO so is support neoliberalism in the 3rd world. There isn't anything inherently socialist about the Iranian government, and furthermore, if a proletarian revolution were to spring up in some 3rd world country you guys would indoubtedly squash it for fears its really back by "muh US"

My point is you don't know jack shit. Fucking admit it. Let's sit back and see how things play out since in reality you have virtually no power to change things anyway. The world isn't shoot first ask questions later. Make observations and notes and we figure out what to do from there.

strawpoll.me/14731251
strawpoll.me/14731251
strawpoll.me/14731251
strawpoll.me/14731251

These protests aren't about socialism though. It (appears to have) started with discontent about rising prices, unemployment, etc. But it's moving into a full blown liberal riot. The vice-president has already stated they will look into reducing economic hardship.

edition.cnn.com/2017/12/30/middleeast/iran-protests-intl/index.html
archive.fo/d8nOH
Iran is about to receive the very hard lesson of why tolerating liberalism is dangerous.
You either go full China, or you end up with this at the first sign of hardship.

As long as you point out you're not some radlib supporting 'democratic' regime change, it appears you'll be fine. I don't get why it's so hard for people to write an appeal.

It's ok it's really easy to ban evade. Eventually popular support will then against the retard BO and we can move beyond this. Sure his will maybe always be a tank echo chamber but the quality posters will just move on

What kind of inconsistent logic is this? So there isn't a powerful socialist state anymore - how does that illegitimize criticism of an actual theocracy? Of course I believe there is a better form of governance than liberalism, I would be posting on this board otherwise. But you can't deny - even Marx himself noted this - that liberalism is merely the next step beyond a theocratic regime. To deny that in support of an extremely narrow and misinformed vision of "imperialism" requires an unfathomable amount of mental gymnastics

Next war in the Middle East. Apparently ISIS and terrorists (aka CIA) need another country.

The USA wants it to be the next war, but it won't be. Iran has outsmarted them.

Yeah it doesn’t look like it’s going in a Socialist direction, it’s full-on reactionary or to use the phrase of the Nazi-poster a “full-on liberal riot”

So if it is going in the direction of "liberalism" and "liberal riot", why give a fuck? Honest question. Since, considering the country is currently a theocracy and despotiic, I don't see either as really very favorable options. Point being, why take a side in lieu of any real evidence it is actual imperialism and a definite CIA plot?
Before BO ban, I am asking honestly here. And to be explicit I root for Iran all the time and wish the US govt would leave them the fuck alone, but just don't get why any sort of civil automatically ='s imperialism

Here’s why you should care, if the Iranian regime falls it will mean that the US will open up a vast new market and in addition to that Iran will be transformed into a pro-imperialist banana republic of the US Empire.

Of course, the people will suffer, much like the people of the Eastern bloc suffered immensely from the collapse of the Soviet system and the neoliberal-gangster policies put in place there. If Iran gives in then three major anti-imperialist struggles of our time: 1. Palestine 2. Syria 3. Yemen will be undermined.

I’m not telling you to care because other people will suffer but to think about your own interest. If the US Empire succeeds in pushing its policies in the region it will lead to an expansion of US global hegemony and likely a new, stronger capitalist boom in the West bloc. If you want capitalism to end you should support movements that have the potential
to clot up and disrupt the capitalist system.

By the time the requisite evidence is shown to exist then it will no longer matter, Iran will be destroyed. By the time a high enough burden of proof was shown to meet the “standards” of the humanitarian imperialist “left” Syria and Libya were already destroyed. Many of them are still in denial about what happened.

Don’t be an idiot they’ve been running the 4th generational warfare script for sometime including with the 2009 uprising in Iran.

Collapse of Iran serves the interests of the petrodollar.

guys
not everything is the CIA
some people just don't like authority

...

Why are you like this?

getting real tired of blue-pilled bullshit

...

I honestly don't know what you mean.

lmao

He's not wrong. Liberal riots have been a thing since the 19th century. (See revolutions of 1848)
Even if the CIA-alphabet soup isn't somehow involved (Apparently some sketchy groups on Telegram Messenger began advocating violence out of nowhere, really makes you think), there is plenty of reason to oppose this. (As Hoxha-poster pointed out)

can anarchists please just fuck off

and you anarkiddies still wonder why everyone calls you liberals.
i let you in on a fucking secret: both is the case, they are against authority and the fucking CIA is coopting it.
this is also why you need to be killed off to safeguard the revolution, you are too fucking retarded to even realize that the enemy will infiltrate you.
there is no fucking excuse to being this much of a liberal brainlet.

if there weren't people in Iran who didn't already dislike the government the CIA wouldn't have anyone to recruit

...

...

Today you get to witness something rare, comrades.

Today…you get to witness a rose admit he was misguided on something.

The ☭TANKIE☭s were right, the US deep state doesn't have its fingers in this pie, it has jammed its big smegma-coated dick in the ME pie.

if you admit the ☭TANKIE☭s were right, then stop dismissing them, follow them, and listen to them.

Broken clock is right twice a day, doesn't mean I should think it's 3:48 all the time.

the ☭TANKIE☭s are right on geopolitical events far more than "twice a day."

...

usually ☭TANKIE☭s are wrong about everything, correctly predicting the obvious (America wants to destabilize Iran) doesn't mean much.

nope, wrong

Such as?

Exactly why I would care, though. Primary interest of mine is to reduce human suffering, which is why socialism is so appealing to me.

Probably the strongest point. US imperialism in south America often isn't revealed til decades later, despite speculation. Often times in the form of FBI documents released because of laws, after which a lukewarm appology is issue.
So point taken, I understand now.

Uhh, to be fair the majority of communist parties in the 1st world are fucking COINTELPRO or some equivalent. I mean ffs the CPUSA endorsed Hillary Clinton man. This isn't an anarchist issue you secretarian fuckwad

if they wouldn't only call themself ML but actually adhere to the program then there's no infiltration.
anarchists are the worst when it comes to infiltration as seen in the ideologically inherent liberalism and idiocy.
not the same thing, dipshit.

also learn what sectarianism even means, fucking retard

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they definitely aren't unstable but they are having economic problems.

I guess we should expect this level of shit reading comprehension from someone as retarded as the BO.

So much for sectarianism being allowed.

I love how this stance is literally anti-Leninist. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_defeatism

It has to be the CIA, the people don't have real agency, they're entirely puppets.

Literally no-true-scotsman.

literally being retarded

The baboons are getting angry we must airlift them some bananas!

I'm not saying you have to defend them, I'm saying it's bullshit to say they're not real MLs even though they call themselves as such, believe in and advocate for the ideology, and structure their party by democratic centralism.

primary identifier of communism is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"
as to whether there will be a state or not depends on what do you mean by "state"

anyway, you need democracy for planning to work properly, so development of efficient economic consensus mechanism is a necessity

So any idiot can call themselves an ML and anarkiddies will attempt to hold real MLs responsible for it.

Read the rest of my post before resorting to infantile insults.

There were 3 clauses contained in the post you quoted. you're responding to a completely off-topic argument.

Also, there are no reports of counter protests as of yet.

fucking triggerhappy brainlet mods
it is you who should be purged asap before it's too late
/liberty/ unironically has the best moderation, if only it was not so slow I would've given this place a middle finger long time ago

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No one said that.
No one said that either.

serious talk you insufferable faggots

why should I, as an ML, support Iran, Russia, Syria etc?
why should I support chink government when they are accomplices with US and EU in a classical case of imperialism as per Lenin? or did you forget that for example Indian native colonial administration in the good ol days was totally ok with being a part of British Empire? just like the current chink administration is totally ok with china being a giant elf factory of the west?

why should I support anything besides the Best Korea?
I say fuck these middle eastern capitalist shitholes
what goes around, comes around
back in the day those regimes pleaded their loyalty to the socialist cause, took the soviet aid, and then spat in their face when they got what they wanted like that shitlord Nasser

let it fucking BURN

go fucking kill yourself you fucking retarded anarkiddy faggot

I don't think there is any reason why you have to support Russia but it is important to oppose the ongoing demonization of Russia imo because that's part of a war propaganda blitz.

Because, its looking to be the next Syria, if not the ultimate end-game of US-Israeli-Gulf-State aims in the region. If it is weakened enough it could be a target of invasion, like Iraq, essentially from what I can tell Trump is hooked up with the most radical pro-war anti-Iranian Zionists and Neocons now.

Imo while Syria is not a socialist government it has stood in the way of a major imperialist offensive and due to that it has inflicted a defeat upon imperialism similar to that of Vietnam. That being said, the main losers have been imperialist proxy forces and not their own foot solders, so there is some difference there.

I honestly cannot understand anything you said except the last line, which is just Holla Forumstier vitriol. You shouldn't call others kiddies when you're acting this infantile.

Anyone ever notice how all these "protests" always happen in "axis of evil" countries and never in say, the U.S or the U.K?

When did I call anyone infantile? You sure that your post wasn’t meant for someone else or is it just a shill/brainlet post?

I'm sorry I meant to quote

Are there any communist forces in Iran atm that aren't allied with the US?

what about the ongoing demonization of US in russia? isn't this a part of war propaganda too?

and anyway, you're delusional if you think anyone can do anything about this
ww1 would've happened anyway even if all the major players knew the outcome beforehead

so? why should I care if one capitalist country invades another?
if it's all about the world reserve currency, then some yuan would take it's place, or we would be back to before bretton woods times
how any of this advances our cause?

you really need to explain this
what is the ultimate US interest in the region?
I can tell you Russian interest in securing their monopoly position in the EU energy market

Can't speak for the UK, but here in the states, most people are too busy dealing with the reality of living paycheck to paycheck to take time out and complain, especially if it A) does not directly affect them, and B) stands a good chance of causing them to lose what they're barely hanging on to in the first place.
I've said it before and it bears repeating now, activism is a luxury most people can't afford.

If you don't care if one capitalist country invades another, you should go back to Holla Forums

as if there any difference now
same torture chamber with kneejerk moderation

They've all been wiped since the mullahs took over.

Check any city during a G20 summit, and you will see protests and police stomping on protesters faces.

It means a lot actually.

here's one: the EU will attempt to continue to destablize the middle east and increase their imperialism in multiple countries
wow bam anarchists right about everything

good observation, hopefully you will employ it in your analysis

like in over a dozen US military bases in Syria

No one cared who I was, until I put on the turban.

british and americans were stationed in crimea during wwii

Hey mods I am anti imperialist. I support Iran and North Korea against US imperialism but I dont support them in any other capacity. Am I COINTELPRO im not sure? If so ban me, thanks in advance r/socialism! You are doing great and important work for the revolution, cumrags!

we had this before, they were confined on the air base and didn't have any relevant means to enforce their presence
the SU insisted in providing the defensives

are you actually so retarded as to tell me over a dozen US military bases in Syria is militarily outperforming the occupying force?
c'mon faggot little child, don't be a delusional little twat just to make an "argument", nobody else but the most desperate little anarkiddy little shits buy into your meme

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None of those are trying to overthrow the government while shouting slogans that push hostile countries' foreign policy.

Shit man, you are so pathetically butt hurt.

Right, and the PKY get aid from the us because they do not have the same amount of military might as ww2 USSR, rest assured, if the Germans had seceded in pushing further in operation Barbarossa, I'm sure Stalin would have allowed for more aid then the already massive lend lease program that existed

Okay, I get it, your a fucking child. You cant stand actual criticism, and have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
I'm okay with with MLs who can express their
grievances in a well though out manner
but this
is the fucking cancer of this board, you are the fucking cancer of this board
end your existence you piece of shit

From what I can tell most “anti-US” propaganda coming from Russia consists of criticism of their hostile foreign policy and featuring critical journalists and scholars on their state TV programs that can’t get a hearing on America’s aggressively rad centrist MSM channels with their narrow spectrum of permitted narratives and information.

The liberals in America are going on a full-fledged psychotic crusade against Russia worthy of the Banderaites and other fascists.
lorenzoae.wordpress.com/2017/10/11/on-russia-todays-liberals/#six

I don’t think it’s inevitable and furthermore assuming that WWI could not have been prevented by any means it could have been cut-short if the socialist parties had been resolutely wedded to anti-war propaganda and prepared to take militant action against the war. The failure of the European social democratic parties is one of the notable events that proved the Bolshevik line in practice.

No, it’s not just about the world reserve currency but that’s part of it. The US is trying to aggressively expand their sphere of influence and not just maintain their current position. When nations loss their sovereignty it affects the ability of the proletariat everywhere to resist or bargain against capital, thus strengthening the system.

Likewise, the US is still the headquarters of world capitalism and in that sense to defend US imperialism or go soft on it is to defend ALL capitalism. China is one of the biggest holders of US treasury bonds and currency in addition to substantial investments in the country by Chinese investors. Ditto for Russia too, and the US is the only country financially capable of continuously invading other nations militarily and supply 1000+ military bases.

The implications are obvious, if US power stumbles or declines it can make openings for the proletariat in the oppresssd nations and elsewhere to strike back against the system.

what is the ultimate US interest in the region?
If you haven’t done enough research to even have a faint idea on what US interest there might be after 7 years of war in Syria then what right do you have to speak on the ME? I’m being serious, you could gain some semblance of an idea from mainstream papers even if you couldn’t see the whole picture. We have a major problem with laziness and it’s an embarrassment.

Btw the US has similar plans for a competing pipeline to Europe through Syria and Israel wants to expand into Syrian territory both physically and in economic-cultural terms. The Balkanization/destruction of Syria serves to destroy a major stumbling block for Western Policy in the region which has set in motion regime change plans going all the way back to a CIA secret paper from 1983.

Even if it succeeds at only destroying Syria as it has done then the US actually gains something as Parenti points out in an article posted earlier in the thread:

It's unlikely the CIA is causing this, Iran has had a split between sane people and religious people for a long time and is a major division in the country, especially the capital where all the money/economic activity is. That's not to say the CIA isn't ready to exploit this for their own gain once they can get the chance, but that chance probably won't happen because Iran's government is backed by Russia and China meaning they can do whatever they want/need to maintain order. As we've seen in Syria (where the CIA was heavily involved arming "moderates"), this works. The end stage of this is probably another Tienanmen Sq style massacre which Russia/China will be blamed for and cause relations with the US to decline further. Russia will probably get a few more airbases, and life will continue on as it was.

The real shitstorm is brewing in Saudi Arabia. The Riyadh hotel situation is still ongoing, and one that the CIA are likely involved in. SA is closer now to civil war than it has been in the past fifty years, if such a thing were to happen the mideast would quickly descend into chaos as ISIS regrows, now empowered by modern weaponry and oil money given to them by the Americans. This would probably cause an energy crisis as the world figures out how to deal with it.

wow, thats a little too much nuance friend youre about to catch a ban

that's because we love our prime minister

This, the US is too intimately involved and the situation in Saudi too fragile to be handled with the usual American tact. Something is going to get out of hand.

Anyone even moderately interested in current mideast affairs knows that Iran will remain stable because, like Russia, they don't care for human rights and will just shoot everybody. But Saudi Arabia can't do this because the SA government is utterly inept while their American contractors (Blackwater) are leery of committing outright genocide, especially when it wouldn't work as SA's social split is so much larger especially with the depressed oil prices breaking their welfare state. It won't continue, and it won't go America's way. All ISIS has to do is radicalize all the "servants" (re:slaves) SA owns as their workforce, they then have a standing army with enough force to topple their royal family. Just like revolutionaries did in Iran 40 years ago.

read

Holy fuck, they shoot people all the time. This year they were literally bombing their own Shia villages. You are literally just making shit up.

Saudi Arabia is far from civil war. There are plenty of people on the left and right who hate the Royal family but everyone who even says anything gets wiped out. The regime knows people want change and will provide it, but it will be a certain type of change that maintains their status. MBS has a fair amount of popular support among young people, totally synthetic, but it's just so dangerous to step outside of the limits of what the regime allows it's the only game in town. Other hotheads can be channeled into terrorist organisations where they can be liquidated after serving their purpose.

SA can only do it to their slave force, which the west conveniently ignores. If they do it to actual Saudis, people will notice. As is the case in Riyadh. This is what I'm getting at, SA's problems go much deeper and are ideological, while Iran's government is better managed and more stable.

The royal family can't provide change without ending their welfare state, or without creating a vacuum that ISIS would immediately assume. Their only way out is if oil prices rise far enough where they can just bribe everyone again. Hotheads can't be sent out of the country because Syria and Iraq are more or less stable right now.

Saudi Arabia are slowly ending the welfare state, and they don't give a shit about killing dissenters in their masses, they do it publicly and terrify the populace into line, they make Iran look like a bastion of liberalism.
And most importantly they have the cover of the west. The only way it changes is if the west decides to end that alliance.

The government can't rely on oil forever and the Saudis are trying (and failing) to diversify their economy while also refusing to end the super expensive and disastrous war in Yemen. The Saudi government could be in huge trouble if things continue like this.

The Saudi population believe the war in Yemen is neccessary because the Iranians are trying to invade them through there.

the war is bankrupting the government and hasn't accomplished anything but dead Yemenis.

No they don't, they're just deliberately lying. Jesus fucking christ, where are you clueless idiots coming from?

You don't think saudi news fills their heads full of that shit?

Sure, but the people who are actually in charge and run shit know it's fake. They're the only ones who matter.

If they're the only ones that matter why have huge welfare transfers to placate the general population? Keeping the population docile through fake news is crucially important.

What does that have to do with Iran you confused idiot?

Oh I'm sorry I thought this was the KSA general, my bad

Ah yes, the "anti-imperialist" Iran that works with imperialist countries to develop their nuclear weapons.

Only Western world can be imperialist, as such all countries that oppose them are by definition anti-imperialist and worthy of support.

Yeah man they should just let America and Israel invade them bro.

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it's not a flase flag tho

jesus christ where are these idiots coming from?

Im not sayin I support IRAN lol, wouldn’t that just be silly, but let’s be real here folks, if you’re pro Iran you’re a regressive homophobe afraid of real progress.

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Ben was spot fucking on with this pic. Not even a ML would find issue with this

nice

If you don't think anti-imperialism is the primary goal of socialism then you're the one who should take off that flag.

Tudeh has released a statement
tudehpartyiran.org/en/news/3743-statement-of-the-central-committee-of-the-tudeh-party-of-iran-the-struggle-of-the-people-of-iran-frustrated-with-oppression-tyranny-high-prices-and-despotism-against-the-dictatorship-is-real-and-should-not-be-allowed-to-be-snatched-away-and-misappropriated-in-the-interests-of-domestic-or-foreign-reactionary-forces

can an american comrade elaborate for me why neocons such as mccain and "liberals" such as clinton are so hateful towards trump and his gang? both neo-fash/reactionaries and liberals are imperialists, both are zionists, both are fiercely anti-communist and anti-worker's-rights, both want more money for the rich on expense of all others, both do not give a shit about international law, both want more surveillance, both are financed by wall street and big corporations etc. etc.

doesn't sound marxist to me at all, rather like something "liberals" would issue tbh

Who the fuck is the mod that bans people for

and why hasn't he been stripped from his mod rights? What the hell.

Literally nothing will happen.
This is all wishful thinking on the part of the Western media. Does anybody remember the '09 'Twitter Revolution' in Iran lmao?

Apologising for imperialism is explicitly banned. If you don't want to get banned then don't promote regime change. It's not rocket surgery.

where did that happen?

Even if that regime is a patriachical, anti-leftist theocracy? It's the same regime that executed communists and leftists. Wow, what a great ally.

He represented a superficial threat to their political power structure, but now that he's fallen in line so to say they get along much better

Is the opposition leftist? No. Fuck off cunt.

Fuck off ☭TANKIE☭ shit

Hope you get banned next cocksucker

Do we defend radical moslems now because opposing them is "imperialism"?

Typical Holla Forums, go to the board you belong, retard

respectability politics. The president isn't supposed to make imperialism look mean.

The PJAK has annouced their solidarity with the protestors.

speak for yourself, cia

Iran's communist party's (Tudeh Party) statement on the protests. Please read:
tudehpartyiran.org/en/news/3743-statement-of-the-central-committee-of-the-tudeh-party-of-iran-the-struggle-of-the-people-of-iran-frustrated-with-oppression-tyranny-high-prices-and-despotism-against-the-dictatorship-is-real-and-should-not-be-allowed-to-be-snatched-away-and-misappropriated-in-the-interests-of-domestic-or-foreign-reactionary-forces

What I fail to understand is why some MLs automatically dismiss the protests, instead of seeing them as an opportunity. Objectively analyze the facts here. The Iranian government is a theocracy and despotic. It is not good for its citizens and for the working class. The economy is hurting, and thus, the working class is, as always, what suffers the brunt of this.

From the statement by the Iranian communist party:
Sounds scary, yet despite this:

They support the protests and the movements against the Iranian government. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the purpose of a vanguard to guide the working class into revolutionary struggle, while simultaneously to protect against reactionary forces? The reason I am asking is because it seems lots of MLs and Stalin stashes on here uncritically support the Iranian regime. To me, this appears rather, well, anti-revolutionary and anti-worker.
Obviously, yes, there is a fear of imperialist action, as noted by the party itself. However,I was under the impression that the revolutionary vanguard you guys espouse as being so critical was meant to protect against this. Thus, why are you guys so quickly siding with the Iranian regime? Why not support the action of revolutionary parties in this struggle?

My reason for posting this is simply because I think this rabid "anti-imperialist" cop-out is damaging to the left. Yes, imperialism must be opposed. But at the same time, not every movement should be viewed as the "pesky CIA" meddling in foreign affairs. Instead, perhaps it is organic, and without proper guidance will most certain be vulnerable to such interference. However, it still represents an opportunity to the left. This is our fucking job guys. If you think the proletariat is going to wake up one day and say "Hey, fuck this, let's install a communist government" you're fucking crazy. Not going to happen. I have been told by some that "well, the movement isn't leftist" see:

We should be supporting leftist movements that seek to capitalize on this strife. Our job is to agitate, to radicalize the workers that compose these movements. Obviously the world isn't black and white, and yes, the constant fear of foreign meddling must be entertained. But at the same time this movement is ripe for radicalization and should be supported to some degree.

Please though, correct me if I am wrong, I'm not posting this to attack anybody. I just think its a good opportunity to shift the window leftward in Iran.

Around the rose, hold your nose. Totally delusional BS that represents a complete analytic failure. Guess Tudeh is CIA now.

So a traitorous "Kurdish independence" group has declared solidarity with other CIA-backed traitors.

traitorous to what, a far-right Islamist theocracy? You're retarded(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Because they do have legitimately different opinions on a lot of social issues.

Some porkies also got spooked because Trump suggested that he would curtail free trade. Interestingly, this was something he almost immediately dropped from his platform.

Son you are delusional and reactionary scum. You'd be better suited to other boards:
>>>Holla Forums

Either this degenerated to civil war / attempt to invade by US , it will be interesting to watch.
at last in civil war you can hope for creating a false hope for all the reactionnary force in there.

B A T T L E R O Y A L H Y P E

What a start mark !

this entire thread

hide your obvious homophobia.

PJAK doesn't seek independence.

I don't think there's enough economic sanctions in place for it to really make people who don't have the luxury to protest be desperate enough (and also not literally starving in other cases) that a mass Protest could even take place that would force a resignation or a complete change in government. Bourgeois democracies are very good at giving the illusion of choice and in the case of the US you only get the choice of "liberal or conservative" which makes any reform or change have to rely on them alone (look at how hopeful people were for Obama that he was allowed to crush Occupy without much protest because he was a president coming in, and thus people were "hopeful".

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This thread shows why leftypol is fucking dying in all its glory.
but hey, I guess pointing this out makes me a CIA stooge.

Ban in 10…9…8…7…

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irans goverment isnt sovereign from god by their constitution. goverments like vatican and saudi arabia are. atlest put some effort in your post

You failed to mention how Iran turned from being secular to a theocracy. It was because of CIA meddling. Whatever they do to not let a puppet government get installed is justified.

So is this board /NRx/ now?

Well I just got a news alert on my phone about the protests. I'll go on the official "no sides" position and watch this out since I don't want to support the Iranian government but any coverage of this from major news outlets makes me… weary

Read Article 2 of Chapter 1 of the Iranian constitution, literally, right there, god has "exclusive sovereignty and right to legislate, and the necessity of submission to his commands". In regular English, the right to legislate laws is in gods hands, and through the system of the Islamic Republic of Iran is thusly delegated to its legislature, with oversight from the Guardian council. Power is derived from god in the Iranian system.

Ofc I know what Ajex was, I also know what Iran-Contra is and how the CIA and MI6 fed the names of Tudeh members who were then arrested and murdered by the Islamic republic of Iran. but I guess that was anti-imperialist cooperation with the west against communist imperialism, right?

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"In God we trust", "Dieu et mon droit" etc etc
If you want the hardliners to gain power then just hope the west keeps threatening and meddling

Iran withdrew support to mujihadeen with an exception to border areas in the 80s when the US supported saddam against them. The iran contra affair was also apolitical, as the CIA just needed more money to fund contras in wars which the US armed forces cant fight directly, much like syria, iraq and iran today.

there have been plenty of protests in countries with good US relations, Like what happened in Egypt, Tunisia, Bahrain

nobody does that itt. you are either illiterate or indeed some sort of shill m8.

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weak post.

Funnily enough, in the US' constitution it states "we the people…do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.": a clear sign that the sovereignty comes from the people and thus the specifications of the constitution thereon is done with the principle of popular sovereignty; with the first section then going 'all powers to legislate go to congress innit fam'. Now if it started off "In the name of God we do ect." you would have an argument: since that is exactly what the Iranian constitution does.

Now for the UK, constitutionally you are right in a technical sense: power comes from god which is given to god chosen representative on earth: the monarch. She (or sometimes he) gives that power to parliament in near entirety. However actually parliament gets sovereignty from itself, using its popular election as its mandate, but in the british system Parliament is sovereign, not the monarch and certainly not god. This is why britain is not a theocracy, also the fact theocracy actually requires RULE by clergy, rather than just sovereignty coming from god.

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you do know the cold war had nothing to do with ideology and was just a big rumble between two sides hustling the masses right?

Yeah tbh, Iran doesn't have a council of muslim clerics overseeing the entire functioning of the state…

Still doesn't wash away the crime of Iran imprisoning and murdering agents of proletarian action: believe it or not a regime doesn't care if you label it anti-imperialist or not, it will still purge you.

tudeh are not socdems

what they did was a nobrainer.
they needed to get rid of foregein agents, no matter which side. and thats another thing. left-righ politics only apply to the western world.
from irans POV it was just two sets of assholes fighting over who gets to repress iran in the future

iran uses the "divine given" power excuse because it works with the masses there.
for the dumbfucks in the west like you the ruling class just sais "muh democracy".

Whether what they did made sense or not for the regime, they still went around killing communists yet people here (including mods) are defending the regime and silencing critiques of it; honestly surprised I haven't been banned yet.
Also Tudeh weren't foreign agents bucko, they were a communist party that was founded in the same cohort as the PCI, PCF, CPGb, et al.

Still makes Iran a theocracy, by you know, having a constitutional council comprised of clergy dictate the basic functioning of the state.

they literally have a council of experts who screen politicians to make sure they're islamist enough to run in an election

the Tudeh weren't foreign agents

t. third-world "anti-imperialist" rightist

the same thing is happening here you dumbfuck

and you wanna change that into what? fascism? corporate quasi-democracy?

the mental gymnastics of angloshphere degenerates

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the suspicion of probable eastern bloc support to them made them a potential fifth column. and like in all revolutions and coups the new ruling class eliminates its alternatives and opposition.
getting emotional if the purged were of your X beleif and then criticising the new regieme is pointless, especially the main reason that revolution happened was agression of the same actor whoch is now doing it again

in the west it's not based on religion.
communism would be nice.

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i didnt say anything about europe. im just saying the anglosphere produced the most dumbfuck shitposters on this board.
and ofcourse that your left-right spectrum is as retarded as your sham democracy

yes it is. the ruling class just replaced the word "religion" with "democracy".
tell me the odds of these west backed protests in iran amounting to anything near communism

No, you are retarded **lol*

You do realise it comes from the sides of the tennis court the third estate of the estates general sat on during the tennis court declaration: republicans on the left, monarchists on the right; but hey don't let me ruin your hate boner.

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Dog, read some fucking history please. The USSR during its founding had to fend off foreign invasions:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War

Why can't Iran and a potential leftist revolution do the same? It is entirely within the realm of possibility that a well executed revolution can both overthrow the despotic govt and fend off US imperialism.
In leiu of their being a Soviet Union in the world who can back revolutionary movements, unfortunately this is all we have. Furthermore, what else would you do, stave off every potential future revolution for fear that the big bad US might interfere? That that is the case there will never be a revolution on this planet. We will be left permenantly waiting for the "perfect time" which never comes.

There are left-wing movements in Iran, the porky government just outlaws them and murders their members, while selling credulous outsiders the same "Left-right politics don't apply" spiel as Mussolini's Italy.

I'm afraid the CIA will use the protests to empower pro-US forces myself, but let's not be naive about who runs Iran.

classic anglo dumbass

i didnt say its their invention. im saying that theyre dumbasses for trying to fit everything in it.

not an argument :^)

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War
The Russian Empire was an imperialist country, and all of the other imperialist powers had just been weakened by WWI. Iran is not imperialist, and the world's united imperialist power, NATO, is stronger than ever. This is why Lenin said that communists IN IMPERIALIST COUNTRIES must root for the defeat of their own country, and didn't say that communists in all countries must root for their country's defeat.

that has nothing to do with iran, unless youre refering to how the revolution is being defended from western and wahabbi agression
you dont have a fucking clue about the political landscape of iran, or the middle east in general do you?
not gamble everything on a fucking petty wish
modern revolutions are never spontaneous and without an actor behind them. what exactly is gonna make your "revolution" any different?

your excuses for supporting the fifth column in iran are lipservice to the CIA at worst and whisful thinking at best

no argument was provided.
youre defacto saying i won.

haha still no arguments
very funny XD

there are clear differences between bourgeois fake democracy and a literal theocracy

Yes, theocracy is cool and has a great aesthetic, bouj fake democracy is lame, infantalizing, and effeminate

From what I can tell most communist parties in the region post-Stalin were pro-Khruschevite, revisionist parties who dressed up social-imperialism in pretty clothes.

I imagine many of these people were just misguided but I don’t think it’s surprise that Iran/Iraq purges communists seeing as they saw the Soviet Union as the OTHER super-power threatening them and opposing their interests. For instance, by 1979 the Soviets were already invading Iran’s close neighbor Afghanistan. The Soviets and the US even jointly-supported Saddam’s invasion of Iran together IRCC.

Nasser kicked Soviet advisors out of Egypt because he thought they were trying to make the nation into a Soviet colony. The FLN similarly had some problems with both the USSR and the pro-Soviet parties.

espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hoxha-reflections-on-the-middle-east.pdf
This is not to say that the national bourgeoisie does not repress genuine communists, even Sukarno violently repressed communist uprisings but the context of what happened is important. I believe that communists should support the national bourgeoisie in their struggle against imperialism while also working for socialist revolution in the Third World. What do people here think about this?

it's like I never left :🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧))

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damn excuse this fucking formatting computer is shitting the bed

dude what the hell, not only is your post probably stupid bullshit, but it's unreadable too.

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Even if he wanted that, the milkman and the postman would still be two different people.

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You can't get rid of the Allahuakbars on the flag without cutting it into pieces. The revolutionary guard pre-empted your counter-revolution.

whats hungary got to do with dis

shitposting mostly

RIP

Mosaddegh and Sun Yat Sen are the only liberal politicians worth of respect from the 20th century

Stirner and who?

Uncle Ted most likely

faggot

Absolutely, Sun Yat Sen was a fucking OG
Smh imagine if China became a Georgist model?

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u mad bro?

Literally /ourguys/
Lets make Khamenei memes and rubber bullet memes.

I see a lot of people here calling Iran "Conservative". Has anybody on here actually read Khomeini's book Islam and Revolution? His economic policies have a leftist bent to them (Kind of like Christian Socialism a la G.K.Chesterton). The radical Shia regionalism in Iran's ideology is almost entirely a reaction to Western imperialist practices between 1945 and 1979.
Khomeini's not the Taliban, just a product of his environment.

Khomeini represented the right wing of the revolution that crushed the socialist left.

I kek'ed.

State capitalism does not preclude conservatism, also did you miss the entire thing about Khomeini going around killed Tudeh leaders and shit?

He was a Reactionary. I'm not denying that.

I'm not saying that he was a progressive communist, or anything like that, just that he's not the illiterate ISIS type mullah that he's painted as alot.

...

You know what you sound like? Sore loser anarchists whining about the evil Stalinists crushing Catalonia, or Trots whining about Stalin killing "the old Bolsheviks," or anarchists whining about muh Kronstadt. The "left" that was crushed in Iran was likely not very popular or significant compared to Islamic liberation. Sorry.

Yes, let's just pretend Tudeh never existed and that Iran didn't have a big socialist movement, uphold Marxism-Khomeinism.

It's clearly an irrelevant party now, if not actually detrimental. Anyone who thinks that the present Iranian government is "just as reactionary" as the wholesale mass slaughter, enslavement, and rape that America is plotting against Iran is someone who SHOULD be brutally repressed.

hurr durr. How about, uphold the only thing that's standing between >80 million people and mass death and destruction?

you seem to have the impression I want instant regime change.

Stand with Serbia against central power imperialism!

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but it's probably some imperialist bullshit. Read Parenti:
michaelparenti.org/yugoslavia.html

I find it interesting how ☭TANKIE☭s will take a holier than thou approach to western socialists, and hurl insults at unions, DemSoc, anarchists etc for not being authentically socialist, but the second a brown person says they want free healthcare they wet themselves even if they are reactionary as fuck in every other area.

...

Apparently there have been gunfights between 'protesters' and security forces. (As well as attempts to storm police stations and military bases)

aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/deaths-reported-iran-anti-government-protests-180102072448238.html
archive.fo/r68v9

This is definitely going places. What a way to start the new year.

Haven't you heard from Holla Forums, Iranians are White.

whers IRGC when you need them

Because these groups are imperialist. They will actively undermine any efforts to destroy imperialism. See AFLCIO, Democratic Cops of America, etc. All they want is labor aristocracy. They are all also explicitly not revolutionary groups, IE none of them are willing to stand up and fight.

A "brown person" who organizes with his comrades and picks up the rifle for healthcare or any sort of challenge to empire is 100x more revolutionary than the most extreme leftcom, trot, anarchist, or any other wanker in the USA who will never, ever do anything of any significance.

Class collaborators off of this board REEEEE!!!

this term used on its own irks me, mostly because i see dumb twitter tranny ☭TANKIE☭s using it

Marx and Lenin both supported the development of an independent national bourgeoisie over feudalism or imperial subjugation. It's not class collaboration, it's basic dialectics.

The raiding has been happening for the last few days apparently…

Maybe because you still have an ideological attachment to empire. Read this.

Except you people will continue to cling to these groups long after their usefulness and historical role has been played out. Neither Iran nor Syria are feudal countries lacking a bourgeoisie or some level of industry, and yet people still back their right wing governments and justify it by pointing to milquetoast social democracy and calling it socialism.

Also backing bourgeois anti imperialists isn’t particularly offensive, but backing people who are essentially fascists (like Ba’athists) and actively destroy agents of genuine proletarian revolution is retarded.

No, once NATO and its vestiges are destroyed/no longer a threat, real communists will end their alliance to bourgeois or theocratic states that played a progressive role in defeating the empire.

What the fuck do you think just happened to Syria??? Whole Syrian cities, along with ALL THEIR INDUSTRY, have been razed to the ground. Syria was occupied by EXPLICITLY FEUDAL-REACTIONARY NATO-BACKED MILITIAS that attempted to send it back into the stone age. As long as the Syrian government is a force to prevent this, and to prevent brutal imperialist enslavement, it is a progressive force. Same for Iran.

The Syrian Baath party has absolutely nothing in common with fascism. The Syrian government is secular and accepting of all ethnicities, and is not an imperialist puppet (the characteristic of all 3rd world fascist states).

there is nothing wrong with imperialism(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Lmao what alliance? The only alliance between these people and communists involves nooses and walls, since such regimes are typically militantly anti communist and will brutally repress any proletarian movement. There is no alliance, if you are a proponent of proletarian revolution in these countries you get the wall.

The Syrian Government is a right wing dictatorship that brought this on themselves with their right wing policies, and while I support them against the Islamists, they are objectively doing nothing to empower the proletariat, and they are only preferable as the lesser of two evils. The D F N S is vastly superior in actually advancing the political position of the proles.

Assad has shown to be far more closely tied to his imperial backers in Russia than the Kurds have to theirs in Washington, and unlike Assad they are actually calling for major changes that would empower the Syrian people.

Except when those governments enslave their own people under repressive regimes. There is little point in exchanging one master for another.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'athism

The Ba'athist party fucked the country with their neo-liberal polices that increased poverty and inequality completely betraying the proletariat. To deny this is pro-capitalist revisionism of history.
Stop banning people because you disagree with them. Try actually engaging in debate instead of being a coward.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Who is doing this shit takes of bans? Are we actually not allowed to criticize anything unless it's US and Co?

So now if we say that baa'thisme is not socialism we get ban ?
So if i say that neolib practice of the baa'th party started a civil unrest then was exploited by USA ?

...

I saw tripstashe or someone of a similar trip say we must support Bernie Sanders in another thread if he had won the Primary, you have no damn excuse for making the Hillary meme.

This is bizzare. Meanwhile, over on 4/pol/ many are unquestioningly supporting the protest.
4chan.org/pol/thread/155292539
It's like they don't remember Syria, libya and the rest
It is pretty much a full role-reversal from a few years ago.

banning people for having different views is still an ass thing to do. I don't give a shit about sectarianism, call people "dumbass ☭TANKIE☭s" and "delusional anarkiddies" all you fucking want, but bans like this will only lead to the board becoming a circlejerk. I didn't come here to be in a fucking echochamber like Holla Forums.

wake me up

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Response to questions here:

flood

why aren't you a posadist yet ? why shoud we support any side ? let's send the nuke.

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4/pol/ is full of boomers

tfw western anti-imperialists think the Iranian left is imperialist

You will find no criticism of unions on this board, and ample dicksucking of whatever demsoc politician is making waves (see: Corbyn, Sanders, Varoufakis).
Plus, none of those are currently proving to be a bastion against something even worse. To paraphrase, if the Wahabi-Zionist empire invades hell, I'll put in a good word for Satan in the house of commons.

At present, the only upshot of a collapse of the regime in Iran will be millions of dead and a victory for Israel, not an emergence of an Iranian socialist movement that seizes power.

How come ☭TANKIE☭s arent capable of forming coherent arguments? Why do they always end up hysterically shreiking at and banning anyone who disagrees with them?

Eh, I guess if everything is as simple that anyone who calls themselves communist is, then your post makes sense. Repression by itself doesn't explain the poor position of communist parties in the MENA region as much the compromises they made with Khruschevite and Maoist-Dengist social-imperialism. Their lines helped make them unpopular and isolated them from both the anti-imperialist and the proletarian struggle in general. For instance, from what I can tell the Maoist party in Afghanistan retained some popular support whereas the pro-Soviet parties have went virtually extinct since the end of the invasion.

I've got to be real and say that I think real revolutionary anti-imperialist nationalism is better than fake pro-imperialist socialism. I also think its ironic that the anti-Iran dorks can never grasp the significance of the fact that PressTv allows radical American/Western Marxists and analysts the freedom to express their views whereas the corporate-owned Western media never does.

You realize that if an Iranian can get healthcare that actually strengthens the bargaining power of Third World workers and thereby strengthens the bargaining power of Western workers as well. Therefore, the question of imperialism isn't simply an ancillary one but one actually linked to the dollar-and-cent demands that yellow unions and soc dems actually trade in. I've said before that if Iran falls it will strengthen the power of capital over labor everywhere if it is successful.

In a time where American socialists can't win basic democratic demands like $15 an hour or a 30 hour work-week people here should really consider that that would mean.

As typical of these type of threads you never see actual members of the Iranian left just LARPers reposting from groups they believe to be Leftist. I haven't seen any evidence yet that reposting a Tudeh article is anymore representative than posting a CPUSA or RCPUSA article and claiming it represents the American Left.

Also there is the assumption that these parties are above collaborating with imperialist powers, I don't know much about Tudeh but the Iraqi Communist party actually collaborated with the Occupation authorities. I wonder how that affected the prospects of Iraqi communism post-2003? The US will use fake left parties if they suit their interests, beyond the whole traditional color revolution thing, a new strategy is being tried Thailand to that end
globalresearch.ca/us-proxies-in-southeast-asia-include-fake-communists/5612109

I repeat the fact that the demands I've seen from the protestors so far are not indicative of a revolutionary consciousness but of a counter color revolutionary consciousness.

Because unlike other MLs; ☭TANKIE☭s rely on Alex Jones level conspiracy theory thinking to justify their crazy ideas.

never change phil

Wait, how is that an upshot?

the succes of the latter enables the succes of the former. read a fucking book that isnt ideological bullshit

so?

thats a flat out lie.

they are undermining the western elite and thus inderectly enabling the western proletariat at its own struggle

as a result of western and islamist agression yes.

ok.

...

Have some tea old chap ! and also support the iran communist underground network ! let's just support reactionnary even thow a civil war will created the perfect condition for a revolution ! let's just drink some tea.

Inequality greatly increased in Syria due to Assad's free-market economy and completely opening up banks to foreign investors. unemployment was through the roof and the country has economically stagnating despite becoming more unequal. Meanwhile Assad was dismantling the social safety-net his father had but in place meaning that when the drought struck the already poor and desperate people causing widespread discontent.
That's not to say that foreign powers or jihadis had nothing to do with it but it clearly shows Assad's agency over the situation.
That's why it matters that the Syrian government is a right wing; because it nearly tore it's own country apart.

So many non arguments in one post, quite impressive.

what you don't like tea ?

Syria reverts to socialist economic policies to ease tension
reuters.com/article/us-syria-economy-socialist/syria-reverts-to-socialist-economic-policies-to-ease-tension-idUSBRE8630FA20120704
Assad was making CAPITALIST (not "neoliberal") concessions to empire in an effort to end sanctions and improve the economy. This is after the USSR collapsed. What he and other leaders have now learned is that if you attempt to make concessions for the sake of the people, that's still not good enough for the imperialists, and they will insist on your destruction.
The victory over the imperialists in Syria is a turning point, Syria is going to double down on socialist policies, and all other resistance countries are going to take note.

Gondola is contemplative about life, not only chill and nostalgic, though the best ones tend to be.
But sometimes one goes through rough shit that becomes a bitter memory.
Gondola is Bob Ross

In english ordinals end differently, finbro. Pic related

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the goverment is asmuch to blame for the war as WMDs are for the iraq war

Hey I just had an idea, we fuck with Holla Forums by convincing them Iran is the ideal alt-right state: "uncucked foreign policy", religious values, moralism, hybrid democracy the whole shabang. It would be entertaining to watch the boomers squirm regardless.

Some new developments in the story:

One of the factions in the protests, the Muhjahedin E Khalq are a terrorist organization who worked for Saddam Hussein. They were delisted by Hillary Clinton a few years ago.

twitter.com/calebmaupin/status/948248425245691904

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Mujahedin_of_Iran

Police and banks have been attacked:
twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/947952860049956864

A man shot by the protesters was told to say the police shot him instead:
twitter.com/calebmaupin/status/948306670853160960

The identities of people who are still alive are being used to inflate the death toll of people allegedly killed by government forces:

twitter.com/SayedMousavi7/status/948335360601350145

Sorry so much of this is from twitter, there haven't been many good news reports about this so far that aren't mainstream dicksucking of the protestors with no critical thought applied

Thread Theme:
youtube.com/watch?v=mXvJjWIuSOE

PSL does a half decent job here.
liberationnews.org/what-to-make-of-irans-demonstrations/

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No it doesn't. Civil wars typically follow a revolution. See: The Russian civil war, the Spanish civil war, the Vendée campaign after the French Revolution, the Warlord-era post 1911.

These are not socialist polices; they are succdem at best. If you genuinely believe that these polices are """socialist""" then you need to read more. This happened far too late (in 2012) and the war was well under way by this point. It does not disprove my point that Assad's economic polices had agency over the start of the civil war.

Assad was making CAPITALIST (not "neoliberal") concessions to empire in an effort to end sanctions and improve the economy

His polices was neo-liberal as he was deliberately opening his country up to foreign markets.
What sections are you talking about? The first sanctions against Syria was not until 2003 in the 'Syria Accountability Act' which was after Assad privatised the economy, meaning that Assad enacted his neo-liberal policy for reasons other than foreign coercion. Regardless, throughout the 90s Syria was cooperating and on good terms with the United states.

they are. especially compared to the neoliberal country you live in, from where you call assad a neoliberal

my guess is that he meant "civil war" as in a war in general. revolutions tend to be more succesful during wars or right after (WW1 for russia, germany, spanish civil war for spanish groups, WW2 for yugoslavia and china, etc)

however thinking that the war in syria is what enabled the "revolution" which sprung up from grassroots is a "crows are black" fallacy.
if not for the intended US agression toward syria the "civil" war would not have happened, and certainly a "revolution" wouldnt have either

While I would not like the see the USA bring MURRICAN FREEDUMB AND DEMOCRASHIEEE to Iran because it would lead to another destabilisation like we saw in Iraq and Libya, at the same time, anyone who unironically supports a far-right theocratic dicatorship that crushes worker rights and union organisation such as Iran is not a leftist.

This is not a binary between "support the anti-imperialist reactionary dicatorship (Iran) or support the imperialist reactionary dicatorship (USA)", and that kind of attitude is not far off from the cynical neoliberal talking points made by contemporary politicians that "oh neoliberal capitalism sucks I know but we've got to stick to it because this is a binary between neoliberalism or death and there are no other options".

its not about binary options.
start using your brain and thinking outside the ideological circlejerk box.
Iranian elites undermine power of the western elites and weaken them on a geopolitical stage which parallels into the domestic political scene and undermines the establishemnt of the western elites giving the dissident elements, among which there are revolutionary elements, a greater chance and better conditions for domestic socio-political changes.
tl;dr: if iran wins you can do shit at home instead of using a CIA coup as an excuse for how "revolutionary" you are

this.
if iran gets absorbed under israel/usa hegemony it will get much harder for the iranian left to bring about political changes in their favour, because then they have to deal with the elite of the whole "west", not just with their domestic theocrats/oligarchs. when countries are absorbed into the "western" hegemony neoliberalism/libertardism essentially becomes state religion, natural wealth is sold out to foreign "investors", worker's rights are curbed, civil rights are curbed and so on. in the worst case iran would become another syria or libya.

Namefag is right here.

This is a fine position but you have to remember what it actually entails. It doesn’t make the Iranian state our friends, on the contrary what this is is a divide and conquer technique, it’s not designed to make the Iranian ruling class strong, but to make them weak by isolating them from global capital. Such tactics are great if you are actually willing to follow through with them, to build the proletarian movement until the point where it is strong enough to topple the Iranian elite without immediately falling to imperialism. We can’t simply sit on our hands as the regime continues to kill communists and crush the Iranian left. The people who defend the Iranian regime itself as if they are our allies or friends are confusing ends and means. Our support for the regime at the current juncture is nothing more than us pitting porkies against each other, we are using them. So any person who claims that the Iranian state is progressive or revolutionary is completely brain dead, because ultimately it is an obstacle to our goal of socialism, it actively impedes it.

youre basically confirming that anglosphere leftists just wanna sit on their ass and do nothing waiting for the CIA to overthrow yet another goverment and then label it a victory

Are you illiterate? I specifically said that supporting the current government over imperial meddling is exactly what we should do. I’m just saying that we need to remember that ultimately it’s an anti-communist regime and thus our enemy. What we should be doing is supporting them temporarily while building up our own movement to the point where it is strong enough to drive the imperialists out of the opposition and to topple the Iranian bourgeoisie and establish socialism. If you actually defend the Iranian Government itself instead of seeing it as a lesser evil than US imperialism then you are defending a regime that actively stands in the way of our goals as socialists. If that’s the case then you’re nothing more than a class collaborator.

Haven't read the thread completely as yet, but this is the most retarded take I've read in weeks. Shi'ism is based entirely about the rejection of leaders claiming to be successors of Muhammed but aren't his bloodline. Also, what do you mean by "least socialist"? Last time I looked Iran had welfare programs, local (worker?) councils, subsides on basic necessities, etc. - it's way more "socialistic" than monarchistic Sunni shitholes Jordan or KSA.

Comrade Hakim (ML YouTuber), who is from Iraq, said that Iranian capital acts imperialistic in Iraq. I don't know how valid that is of course.

"The cia"

ISRAEL LOBBYIST CALLS FOR FALSE FLAG AGAINST IRAN

youtu.be/gVWSDKfjg48

IRANIAN INTELLIGENCE CLASHED WITH FOREIGN TERRORISTS

ifpnews.com/exclusive/three-intelligence-forces-killed-clashes-anti-iran-terrorists/

EUROPEAN TRAINED BY EUROPEAN SECRET SERVICES TRIED TO RILE UP PROTESTERS IN IRAN

telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1497660/europese-ophitser-gepakt-bij-protest-iran

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Yeah choosing successors by bloodline is actually the more progressive option. Thanks for clearing everything up

Jesus Christ, I've never heard imperialism espoused so openly and cynically. Everyone on this board needs to watch this.

I specifically wrote "socialistic" in quotation marks. Contain your sperg-out.

The belief that any leader can be the religious and earthly successor of Muhammed has given rise to Sunni feudalism, where you can observe tinpot dynasties rising and falling basically since the era of the crusades. Shi'ism doesn't have that, because it's messianic, that's why Iran is somewhat more democratic than most middle eastern states.

I’ve heard the same thing from Baathist Iraqis yes, they still exist but I’ve never seen any actual evidence. They usually just repeat the claim made by the neocons that Iran stepped into the fold when America withdrew its ground forces.

wat
wat
wat
wat
wat
wat
wat
socialisme with "Shia THEOCRACY" characteristics

iran is backing the elements in the iraqi govt and shia militias in a similar way it did in lebanon to secure its western flank and the iran-iraq-syria-lebanon axis.
the PMU is almost entirely aligned with iran (pic related) because its consisting of mostly shias

thats why the US is thinking of backing sunni insurgencies in iraq, consisting of IS leftovers and renegade PMU elements that dont like iranian influence in the country

theyre alot more stable than western puppet goverments and jihadist warlords. considering theyre also on the side which fights israeli, saudi and american influence in the region this is as good as it gets

things like this made me leave leftypol
leftypol became utter trash.

Protesting in IRAN, a theocracy reactionary state is imperialism ?!

Maybe we should listen to actual communists in Iran, like the Tudeh, instead of the perpetual rambling from westerners devoid from reality:
icp.sol.org.tr/interviews/tudeh-only-progressive-forces-can-determine-irans-future

how many revolutions have you been in?

He probably counts the leftpol split as one.

Thought I'd post a statement by another Iranian communist party (in exile, obviously)

Labour Party of Iran (Toufan): Long live the raging movement of the people of Iran!

Revolution is the midwife of every old society, which is pregnant with a new one. The grassroots movement in Iran that is entering its 5th day is an expression of the rejection of the totality of the criminal mafia in power; a power that is not accountable to the people and is trying to squeeze the life out of the poverty-stricken masses.

This is a movement of wisdom against ignorance, a movement against poverty, unemployment, corruption, multi-milliard dollars embezzlement by the officials, looting of the meager savings of the millions of working people, and political repression. This is the cry of anger of millions of people who have waited patiently for years and are now challenging the regime of the Islamic Republic and are shaking its base.

The recent uprising is expression of the accumulated anger and dissatisfaction of the masses from the neo-liberal economic policies of the regime. This anger has built up during the past several decades.

The regime of the Islamic Republic has intensified the implementation of the dictates of the World Trade Organization, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank. Consequently, the economic condition of the masses has declined rapidly, the level of poverty has risen, inflation has skyrocketed, the cost of living has sharply increased, the purchasing power of the general population has declined, the price of water, gasoline, electricity, and other fuel has increased.

In the past several years, especially in 2017, there were many strikes, demonstration and protests by different sectors of the society; workers, teachers, retirees, unemployed, nurses, many thousand individuals who are the direct victims of looted bank savings, etc. It was expected that a general protest will develop in response to this condition.

Adding to this is the intensification of the inner fight between the factions of the regime of the Islamic Republic. The protesters used this fight in their own service and targeted all factions of the regime of the Islamic Republic.

All social and political sectors of the society are participating in these protests, from communists to revolutionaries, from ordinary masses to organized forces, from the monarchists to reactionary and pro-imperialist Mojahedeen and to individual agents of Zionists and imperialists. This uprising is spontaneous, mainly by the youth, does not have an organized leadership at this moment. Despite all shortcomings, this uprising is a genuine expression of discontent of the general population from four decades criminal rule of the Islamic Republic. The protest movement started with economic demands and is moving forward towards political issues.

The Party of Labour of Iran (Toufan) hails the just and bold movement of Iranian people against the Islamic Republic that has ruled for nearly forty years using repression and extreme violence. We insist on the unity of the masses and on a clear and sharp stand against the aggressive imperialist powers and their agents who try to derail the movement.

There is not yet sign of an increase in the number of workers in the streets. A general strike will force the regime to retreat and will provide the opportunity for the street demonstrators to continue protesting with a lower cost. The unbalanced class forces, the lack of political organization and leadership, and the exhaustion of the street protesters will not produce a condition in favor of the movement.

In the Middle East, the U.S. imperialists and Israeli Zionists are trying to penetrate any movement against the regimes that do not bend to their dictates. This is particularly true about Iran. The presence of agents and lackeys of the US imperialists and Israeli Zionists in a movement does not necessarily express the nature of the movement. In the present uprising in Iran, the role of these agents is not dominant. This is a spontaneous movement from bottom-up and not from top-down. At the same time, the communists, left, and progressive forces must be very vigilant and analyze the erroneous slogans and stands that are expressed in the marches and expose the nature of them to the masses.

If the demands “bread, job, housing, liberty, social justice, and the republic” are more clearly expressed, if the slogans in support of the overthrown old order – the hereditary monarchy- and the slogans that compromise with faction of the regime are rejected from the ranks of the movement, then one can hope, with the rise of revolutionary forces in particular the Marxist-Leninists who are the true representatives of most radical social demands and who are strongly opposed to imperialist interventions, that the movement will achieve its goals.

The Party of Labour of Iran calls on the masses in the streets to be vigilant and avoid the premature violence. The agents of imperialists and Zionists and the sel-out circles do not value the human life. They only look for their interest. Every call on the masses should be carefully examined and its source be investigated.

The rights to formation of independent guilds, the right to employment and housing and unemployment insurance, the freedom of association and assembly, the separation of religion from the state and education, the abolition of gender segregation and compulsory veils and dress code, and the freedom of all political prisoners are part of the demands of the street demonstrators. The Party of Labour of Iran gives its whole hearted support to these demands and believes that no faction of the Islamic regime has the will to fulfill these just and popular demands of the masses.

The Party of Labour of Iran ( Toufan) strongly condemns the brutal killings of the protesters and calls on the fraternal Parties and Organizations in the ” Internatinal Conference of the Marxist Leninist Parties and Organizetions” and on the revolutionary and progressive forces and individuals to condemn the regime of the Islamic Republic of Iran for its crimes and to demand the immediate and unconditional release of all detained street protesters.

The remedy for the workers and the working people is unity and organization!

The Party of Labour of Iran (Toufan)

January 1, 2018

espressostalinist.com/2018/01/04/labour-party-of-iran-toufan-long-live-the-raging-movement-of-the-people-of-iran/

well they admit that while the US and israel are in the picture the revolution is a stalemate. why cant people on here get that trough their head

slightly less retarded than Tudeh, still nowhere near fulfills its responsibility to explicitly lay out an anti-regime-change position. also straight-up bad analysis like "poverty has risen," giving no actual numbers and not even mentioning sanctions. indistinguishable from Trot shit and a clear and total disconnect from actual events on the ground.

Why is it the responsibility of communists to defend a government that imprisoned, purged and executed them?

Because communists aren't adventurists who want to get millions of people pointlessly murdered?

If you don't understand what I said, feel free to ask. No reason to get emotional my dude.

There's nothing adventurist about it, unless you believe endlessly cowardly grovelling to theocrats and an increasingly wealthy national bourgeoisie is the only way anti-imperialism can succeed.

Castro ousted a US puppet regime right under America's nose and didn't even get support from the USSR until 1959. It's more than possible, idk why people have convinced themselves that a communist revolution is impossible.

Oh yeah, please explain how communists are going to miraculously get a communist revolution in Iran and THEN fend off the USA.

All US puppet regimes should be fought and ousted, it isn't remotely comparable.

Why not?
If communists can topple a regime directly controlled by the US right by its border, I see no reason why they can't take over a country thousands of miles away that's very difficult for the US to invade. The Bolsheviks took over Russia and fought off forces from Britain, America, France and more.

youd love captain Ahab

You fucking idiot, if the country is already under imperialism, then they have nothing to lose by attempting revolution. If they ALREADY HAD a revolution that ousted the imperialists, like in Iran, a second (particularly adventurist) attempt at revolution would only serve to create an opening for the imperialists.

you must be the kind of person that theorises about everything all his day in the armchair but never does shit

You would've said the same thing in October 1917.

Who is fighting for the US?
That's everyone on here.
And yeah those revolutions were a long time ago but they fucking worked.

the fifth column in iran
i contribute currency from time to time to /myguys/
then go start a revolution in russia. im sure itll work again right?

just joking GRU/FSB im your guy

No, Russia was imperialist. You're a fucking idiot, take off that flag.

SOUTHFRONT REPORT ON IRAN
youtu.be/9VDHt40yKko

Big assumption. Not everyone protesting is a monarchist who wants the Iran of the 1970s back. Even Rouhani admitted the initial protests were justified.

I don't want to sound edgy or anything but good…

American soldiers should get out of Iraq even if they have to be forced out by force of arms. All the arguments being made against Iran rn seem to be like "they are supporting Lebanon and Yemenis" the latter may or may not be true but the facts are that both people are resisting occupation, resistance and subversion. Even if I conceded that Iran has its own (sub)-imperialist interests which hasn't even been proved–its supporting movements that directly challenge the leading imperialist power and its aligned West bloc imperialist partners.

The complete lack of dialectical thinking is interesting, as there are those who tell us that these protests could lead to socialism–OK, I'll concede that it could indeed do that. But the anti-Iran folks never stop to think about what would happen if the Iraqis defeated the US, the Yemenis defeated the KSA, and Lebanon and the facts are this would strengthen both resistance to imperialism everywhere and in those countries in particular. Think about it, after having fought France and the US, did the Vietnamese roll over and take it when the Chinese invaded? No. So, if we should really fear Iranian "imperialism" someday in the future then its likely that today's anti-imperialists in the region will be fighting it tomorrow.

This is a blatant shill post. Everyone knows that the US incited sectarian death squads of both varieties in Iraq in order to quell the national resistance to occupation which was disproportionately Baathist. Likewise, everyone knows that America and its allies created ISIS.

>Even Reuters admits that there are tens of thousands of pro-government protestors
Remind me why agent-provacteurs always get our sympathy instead of normal people alienated by the tactics of the former group?
reuters.com/article/us-iran-rallies/iran-stages-pro-government-rallies-cleric-urges-firm-punishment-for-protest-leaders-idUSKBN1EU16G

OF ALL SAD WORDS OF MOUTH OR PEN, THE SADDEST ARE THESE: UNRUHE WAS RIGHT AGAIN

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how is that arguing against my post? the whole point of my post was saying that the US will attempt to destabilise iraq to prevent irans political control

Oh ok, I thought you were arguing in favor of Iran being imperialist in the region. They said the same thing about Iraq and idiots can't stop falling for it, sorry for overreacting.

The West couped Iran thrice, and ironically it ended for them always as bad.

The coup against Iran was first Western false flag attack.

Even couped Iraq to go to war with Iran and that failed too.

Well it's true. If you want to delude yourself into thinking everything wrong in Iran is because of a fifth column, ok.

the USSR supported Saddam and they were 100% right to do so.

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kek

No they weren't. They were trying to get him to cooperate with them but that was stupid since he was CIA. They should have supported Iran instead.

Secular Ba'athism > Theocracy, kiddo
youtube.com/watch?v=z2wxK9JSro8

Can anyone here give me one good reason to support Iran? Besides the fact that they're a thorn in burgerland's ass.

read the thread

Iran is a reactionary regime that is against american imperialism so it confuses leftists.

The actual revolution died a long time ago and the people running iran are western educated neo liberal technocrats

Basically if Iran was america

Rouhani = obama

Ahmadinejad = trump

There are rumors amadinehjad and the the right wing of iran are behind these protests

This is why they were let happen, and the stated reason for them is economical.

Of course you cant control an angry crowd and being angry about economics soon turns into DEATH TO THE REGIME

The country of Iran is as sharply divided as america is culturally

It's pretty retarded to believe that Iran is purely a theocratic state, like a Shia version of Saudi Arabia or something. The Iranian Revolution was in many ways progressive, it was an overthrow of American imperialism in Iran, it nationalized many industries in the country (even to this day the Iranian constitution only allows government ownership of things like communication, media, energy etc).

It's basically a liberal democracy, but with a religious leader as the Supreme Court.

Saudi isn't a theocracy, just a very reactionary monarchy

i dont wanna read 500 posts but i think this is extremely simple matter:
iran is the worlds biggest politically neutral oil producer in the world (nato already has norway and saudis)
so, nato, which controls ~99% of the worlds oil, goes after it

i stopped obsessing about ideologies and philosophies years ago: world works on resources, resources matter, resources are why things happen, and it is quite reasonable to suspect a country that
1) has oil
2) is not nato aligned
gets rekt, for a country to have oil (or any other strategic resource) and not be aligned, hostile take over happens 99.99% of the time

Delusional.

State owned communications and media are a way for the government to keep dissent under wraps, and state owned oil isn't very worthwhile anymore since the various welfare programs it funded have been stripped away and the subsidies for domestic consumers greatly reduced.

No. Initial organisers were Iranian conservatives unhappy with Rouhani (who's neoliberal). Started in Mashhad which is a clerical hotbed. Then it attracted a lot of disaffected youths and they got scared. It's not following the color revolution script ("peaceful" square occupation, nationalist symbolism, outcry over repression). It's more like the 2005 banlieue revolts or the 2011 UK riots.

It's already over dude.

There's still protests going on

theres still IS pockets left in syria but we all know that its over

Good read on the Iran revolts:
beyondeurope.net/707/irans-current-movement/
(…)

tl:dr it has similar causes as the other arab spring type revolts, and even the greece riots; Neoliberal austerity politics and a growing class of unemployable youths without a future.

good plan.

If you even read the article it clearly states that this isn't like the color revolution (the reformists who started that revolt are actually in power now, and are the ones being revolted against). Stop supporting a neoliberal islamists government against a workers revolt.

I said it in another post. There were rumors going around that ahmadinejad and the far right of Iran are actually behind the protests.

The ultra religious elements of Iran where actually marginalized a long time ago and replaced by neoliberal technocrats and have felt disdain for them ever since.

ahmadinejad is using the same playbook trump used. Be a right wing populist and talk to the working class the left wing abandons

The neoliberlization of iran started with a guy called rafanjani who died a bit back.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akbar_Hashemi_Rafsanjani

This whole situation is very complex but also sort of similar to whats going on in america and other places ravaged by neoliberlism.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5243667/Former-Iranian-president-Mahmoud-Ahmadinejad-arrested.html

So looks like they arrested him.

The former president of Iran Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been arrested for inciting unrest against the government, it was reported.

The ex-leader was apprehended during a visit to the western city of Busehehr on December 28, according to Al-Quds Al-Arabi.

The newspaper reported that Ahmadinejad said: 'Some of the current leaders live detached from the problems and concerns of the people, and do not know anything about the reality of society.'

It is also claimed he said Iran was suffering 'mismanagement' and that President Hassan Rouhani's government 'believes that they own the land and that the people are an ignorant society'.

i feel bad for the dude, the religious order has been neoliberlized and become elitist that despise the people and they cant even vote them out. Imagine if you had to get the approval of the neoliberal ayatollah and his divine council of lanyards to run for president

Zionists win again.

Do we have a source that isn't the Daily Mail?

t. Wikipedia

english.alarabiya.net/en/News/middle-east/2018/01/07/Reports-of-Iranian-former-President-Ahmadinejad-s-arrest.html

To tell you the truth i think iran is ripe for a communist revolution or a fascist one, any one really.

Thank you.

This is pretty much true for all countries ravaged by neoliberalism

oh, so its a subliminal coup that got hijacked by the CIA. like ukraine. good to know

Not even close to what the article said

Just because you watch some TYT videos, it does not make you a socialist, now go back to
>>>/facebook/

Why not have Communism?

learn to put things into context and read between the lines.

so, are you a stalinist or a nazi?

practical reasons.

Reading between the lines=/=reading things into articles that aren't there but fits your narrative

I thought this was interesting
youtube.com/watch?v=DovtCeRsvD4

test

I don't like Iran

test

Underrated posts.

Iran has many politicians who are pretty damn millitaristic. Anyone know what the Revolutionary Guard's stance on the protests is?

Because theyre antizionist. Fuck jews.

Introducing too much change at once can cause people to recoil.

because then leaders gets assassinated and billions of weapons and funding go to far right death squads
if fucking iran became ML, you better believe ISIS gets an american made nuke with coordinates to tehran

...

theyre gonna keep the protests down to make order and see which political force wins the current power struggle.
IRGCs job is maintaining order, and in all this they decided to keep above the happening since they get orders from both sides.

Collecting info here, w/ timeline:
8ch.net/1917/res/162.html

will update it later today.

This is also why the US is ramping up its propaganda campaign against Venezuela.

how does iran deal with its communist parties?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_political_prisoners#Dealing_with_leftists

Why the fuck do ☭TANKIE☭s insist on supporting the Iranian government? Imagine how Iranian MLs would feel about knowing that their western comrades support their government.

We hate American government more.

yep. this is what the mods are banning people for.

saying you want the US to bomb Iran and having an open discussion about protests in Iran is the same thing, apparently.

m-muh free speech!!!

you're acting like being able to have something approximating a normal discussion about something on an imageboard is some far-out special privilege, or at worst, reactionary concern-trolling. if you want extremely arbitrary policing of what everyone can say, why don't you go the fuck back to leftbook or plebbit?

bump
anything happen lately?

a few demonstrations are still ongoing in major cities but state security and IRBC have contained the situation. Now theyre just waiting for the whole situaion to boil down and then investigate the background of it all. Reports on what was really going on will be coming in a month or two.