Macron about to smite unemployment benefits

French President Emmanuel Macron’s plan to slash benefits for the unemployed in half if they refuse “reasonable” job offers and annul them for two months in case of repeated refusals sparked criticism from both left and right.

Just a question, how is this any different from "work or starve", the way it was in 19th century capitalism? So basically you are now forced to take any job, no matter how shitty it is or what your qualifications are. Since Macron has been proven to be racist as well, can we now say that form a purely utilitarian standpoint, LePen would have been the better choice for the working class?

Other urls found in this thread:

basically yes.
oh and his reforms will almost certainly do nothing but weaken the economy further. lmao

Wow, does this preening clown actually believe people who voted for him actually endorsed this shit as opposed to voting for the candidate who WASN'T a glorified Vichy fascist?

He is going to get absoloutely destroyed come the next election.

Le Pen would have tried to do the same thing but would have met with much more resistance.

Who the fuck supports austerity in 2017? Like it's been a decade, are motherfuckers dumb or what?

I honestly think Le Pen would have been better

The bourgeoisie.

Thank for your input, current year man.

He is not /our/ guy by any means.

Pretty much every single European country except Portugal? Are you living under a rock? We all know austerity is shit, from an economic perspective as well as from a social perspective, everybody but neoliberal ideologues agree on this, and did so from the very beginning. But it's not about logic anymore.


this is good, accelerationism is working, now we wait

Sure sure but outside of leftism I see nothing but broad support for Trudeau and Macron, presumably there must be people who support austerity, or is it literally all divide and conquer?

It's been ten years since the recession near enough, how can anyone argue that austerity works when its been a total failure? Why do people accept it? Pissed me off man.

Jesus man he is the absolute fucking worst


Trudeau and Macron is based on personality cult. It's basically like the DPRK at this point, but in a capitalist form. They are supreme leader and they always right in their miraculous wisdom.

Keynesianism has been dead since 1973, deal with it.

No really, deal with it. Start arming up.

So let's say I'm an umenpolyed carpenter, I'm forced to take a job as a postman because otherwise I'm starving? Wow capitalism really is efficient.

btw, the USSR had no unemployment, Holla Forums.

this has already been worked out by cleverer people than you. it won't work. no one's gonna start hiring just because labour is cheaper if everyone is spending less. if anything it reduces demand for labour. totally pointless and counterproductive.

Perhaps this is the new plan for tackling the falling rate of profit, promote fascism like always but since war might upset the applecart, just use them as leverage to force the people to love arch-neoliberal maniacs, because, you know, gay marriage and stuff

it's easy for you to wait you're not the one being made poorer by diktat. austerity in the uk killed 120,000 people and they still voted in the party that did it.

With what rocks? It’s France man.

Whatever you can get your hands on


Le Pen was basically Melenchon with extra racism and a referendum on EU membership


the absolute state of neoliberal centrists

That's still better though because at least liberals would have given a shit when she tried to slash workers rights. I mean a little bit anyway

What about information? How good are you geographically? How well could you find your way around if you had no access to electronic mapping?

from what i remember she wasn't planning on cutting workers rights

forgot to add - as long as they were white. lmao

FN's economic policies have always been the vaguest possible shit designed to appeal to left nationalists who aren't listening too hard. Anyone who thinks that Le Pen wouldn't means test thousands off of assistance programs is delusional.

Donald didn't build a platform on unilateral zionism either and yet here we are.

Donald has checked out, Bannon was the brains there. What you see is simply the USA on autopilot. All Donald does is talk shit to distract people and shake hands, he's a glorified spokesman.

Are you kidding me? Trump fearmongered about Iran and regurgitated Zionist talking points at any point in the campaign.

American far right =/= European far right. It's less classcucked and less israelcucked.

I’m not French, was just saying.
But in regard to “arming myself” in that way I spend my time reading theory, I grow and can my own vegetables, and am in the process of getting my first rifle. I also spend a lot of time in the woods and know how to survive off the land for extended periods. Always room for improvement (especially with electronics and with organization) but I’m trying at least.

It's just as Israelcucked as it's funded by them

It isn't. What's simultaneously heartening and disheartening is that it should come as any surprise to you.
This has been the de jure standard of the UK welfare system since 1995, with much stronger enforcement since 2010. Except sometimes starving the unemployed isn't good enough so they starve the disabled instead.

the problem has never been that people don't want to work
the problem is that macroeconomic policy is incoherent. on the one hand they cut welfare to try and force people into work, but they do nothing to stimulate demand and ensure that jobs are actually created. especially not desirable jobs that society actually needs instead of more fucking deliveroo drivers.

You guys just don't comprehend his Jupiterian style of governance. This is all according to plan, don't worry. His staggering intellect will guide the French people much like the great figures of his country's past - Napoleon, Charlemagne, and Louis XII. In 200 years, there will be another name uttered with similar reverence:

SPD made those reforms in Germany in the beginning of the century. But CDU + SPD still get more than 50% of the voted. Lumpen just stop to vote, no accelerationism insight, only suffering.

Those who do support him do.


Is Macron, dare I say, /NRx/?

There was another choice, there was always another choice…

Yeah it worked so well last time: Stand with National Populism in its fight against neoliberal imperialism!

Neoliberal bastard.

No, it wasn't. And I'm hardly a fan of SocDem Mélenchon.

Is it ok to hate the French for electing this man

I know this might come off as a surprise to many Holla Forumstards, but immigrants too are part of the working class.

If I'm not mistaken, these kinds of austerity moves are moreso because of pressure from Brussels.

Le Pen could have only been better in the sense that she would exit the EU and restore French sovereignty over its economy.

Why hasn't this guy been guillotined yet? I swear to god liberal democracy was a mistake, the rich flaunt around and thinking they own us and are literal gods but nobody tried tries to show them how they're still human with a bomb or bullet.

It's always okay to hate the French for any reason possible.


Only if it's ok to want NK to bomb the united states and kill every single american for… Basically ruining the world.
So yes, you can hate french bastards

Some people in France voted for him because he was young and handsome…. How the fuck do we get off this ride ?

Abolish democracy
Also commodity production

It's genuinely concerning. I don't want to become a defeatist cynic about everything, but we seem to be so deep underwater that it is pretty hard to see the light. Both Macron and Trudeau got some amount of votes just based on them being young and attractive, and the spiteful American media plays this up in relationship to Trump. Which is so fucking self-defeating. Yeah, he is an ugly piece of shit that is almost 80, fine, but you're going to look to France and Canada and say "now there is where they do it right, they elected a handsome middle aged man". Great way to shoot yourself in the fucking foot on policy. Both parties seem to have their majority defined to a great degree by tribal antipathies, so hyping up youth and looks as important is a great way to shoot yourself in the foot on the importance of policy. Now some amount of dipshits are going to value that in a politician even more. They did the same shit with Obama too, of course, hyping up that he was a handsome, stylish president compared to Bush Jr. even though he looked like a cartoon character with huge ears, but I digress.

I have found people have always supported austerity before the recession, you forget that the vast majority of proles in the west are incredibly classcucked so much so that even supposed leftists fetishise work.

I've always remembered most people educated or not, grumbling and whining about "dole sponges" and "welfare queens", saying how it's unfair that such people never "contribute" to society or vilifying them for their laziness.

They have no idea what capitalism is, let alone what bourgeoisie means or that working class isn't actually a synonem for low income or poor people.

They are so myopic in their envey and malice that they forget that generous welfare provisions inflate the value of the labour market by strengthening the bargaining power of those at the minimum wage (which in turn has a trickles up effect on pay close to the minimum) and in turn their own wages.

Forgot to turn off flag

Hey hey! Ho ho!

Baboon peoples have got to go!

I think there are severe diminishing returns on this kind of cynical pandering to aesthetics. Obama is still well liked by the dullest people in the country but for every one of them two more have become embittered or dropped out of the electorate entirely. Macron's victory had very low turnout as well. Now, the neoliberals don't actually care that they've destroyed people's faith in government but something's gotta give.

They're deluded by money. So many people, probably the vast vast majority of people, even if they'll claim otherwise, think that money is some kind of limit on production or wealth or I honestly don't even fucking know sometimes. They believe it as a direct generator of wealth to the core. That is where this shit fucking belief that "we don't have enough money" "we need to cut back" comes from.

It's maddening, I can barely contain myself even arguing in the position of a capitalist. You don't even need to be talking about capitalism itself as being wasteful, out of control, prone to disaster. You just need to see somebody acknowledge we have abundance of goods, services, resources, human labor, UNDERUTILIZED human labor at that there is a FUCKING unemployment rate for god's sake, and then still say that we don't have enough money or that we need to raise money to pay for things on a state level. The real economy is under capacity, the only thing limiting capitalism itself from achieving even greater heights are fucking paranoid delusions about money.

It's insanity. Even in boom times where we still have a decent amount of unemployment and low inflation people think we need to punish ourselves.

We could shill modern monetary theory in public and explain why a balanced state budget is bullshit.

The classical view - that wealth is created by labour - has been systematically removed from the mainstream economic vocabulary, for obvious reasons.

Is that why their theories are so vague and constantly cause depressions and wars?

This is why someone odious like Macron can become president, just because it's a 2 round process doesn't make it fair.

It's just first past the post, except the farce is repeated twice. Mélenchon suffered from the spoiler effect as the left vote splinters as hoped for in such a system that's flawed by design.

Macron could never have won an alternate voting poll.

Oh and yes I'm well aware that the French media and establishment backed Macron too, but the latter is incidental to the fact that election is systemically compromised. He would have been a much riskier proposition for big money to back in a fairer contest.


Unfortunately though even in the classical view money is seen as somewhat sacred, given the kind of unquestioned belief in a commodity derived money. Alongside that there is often a notion that money represents wealth, which is true in a sense, but this gets confused for the idea that if you increase the amount of money in existence, you've devalued its exchange ratio relative to the total supply of goods inherently. There is often little regard given for what the money is doing, it's just that you've made more money, so now you have devalued it.

Which is just to say that even if a classical view of labor creating value was accepted, it wouldn't fix the other problem that people misunderstand how money operates.

I do this on Holla Forums and I think it is effective. It's not an unfamiliar set of ideas among certain progressive circles (I know Sam Seder has shilled it), but it seems like the vast majority of people on the right and of average liberals or progressives have never heard of post-keynesian theories. So when you suggest that you can just defecit spend and not worry about inflation as long as there is the ability to increase production of whatever is being demanded, people seem to genuinely not know how to respond to you.

Actually, right now I'm in a thread on Holla Forums arguing that social security shouldn't have any tax associated with it. You just get paid some income based on a regional assessment of costs of living, plus whatever level of payment is deemed politically appropriate. I'm arguing it should be a high amount, because then people won't save throughout their lives. That way they will spend more of their incomes, and we will get a big boost to the economy.

I don't know if there is any problem with this idea realistically, but I like to go a bit absurd with what I vaguely know I can argue in order to see if I can really subvert people's ideas without actually being a communist. I'm just arguing for a stronger capitalism, though I do genuinely believe post-keynesians would make capitalism a lot more comfortable.

The mainstream economists throughout history, mainly the bought and paid for establishment ones.

I'm assuming your scenario is one where the state issues the money required to pay for the social security, rather than borrowing the money or raising taxes.

The resulting inflation would mostly hurt creditors whose debt based income loses purchasing power with an economy where the inflatory pressure is due to increased incomes at large in society (unemployment benefits incentivise worker renumeration) rather than through their own issuing of debt upon a population whose overall income is declining.

In the latter scenario, inflation doesn't matter in the short term as the creditors hold a greater proportion of the total currency than the rest of the general population who then feel the brunt of commidity price hikes as the economy realigns itself to satisfy the consumption of the elites at the expense of the masses whose influence diminishes as their proportion of spending depreciates in relative value.

Nothing can be as Israelcucked as burger right wing politics. And it's impossible to deny that Europe's far right is way less classcucked than America's. Every far right figure in Europe is to the far left of burger Democrats economically speaking.

Bear in mind in the time of Smith, Ricardo, and Marx, the monetary system was very different to todays one with floating exchange rates etc.

The mainstream view I refer to is the types that become economics editor at CNN or BBC, or a politician or some other lackey.
i.e ot real economists, just someone with an economics degree that was designed to perpetuate the established order.
So now apparently the wealth creators are not the workers, it's the people with all the wealth. Because obviously if you created wealth surely you would have it?
It's pure gaslighting.

My own country uses this same system, what kind would you want implemented?

Because the course of capital is not politically determined, user:

I agree, a far better system is Multiple vote first round (aka put as many crosses as you like, top two go through) then a run off top two second round.

Regardless, who is ready for Camarade Melenchon to lead the jobless marching corps?

Melenchon, Wagenknecht and Corbyn will lead Europe, and then the world to communism

No that's still first past the post except not as bad as just being given 1 vote and a second round would be redundant anyway as you imply everyone was free to vote as many times as they like to begin with.

It sounds a lot like this, except this is just one round of voting:

Alternative vote is better imo:


I wouldn't mind hearing about a better method or why multiple votes are better.

That doesn't sound too bad, tho would the inflation even be anything but relatively short term? I feel like a study could be done into it. Check to see what people do with their incomes when they increase by X amount (by bracket). Check how many people fit those brackets to estimate the effect on demand. Look at relevant industries to check how elastic their supply curves are. You could get an idea then for what prices would be most likely to rise and by how much, how long it would take for them to adjust (or who knows, maybe you'll find that there isn't enough unemployed workers of some skill level available to expand. But I'd imagine that wouldn't be a problem).

If you do have significant inflation of some consumer goods, you could then try to address that. Maybe cut down the current social security tax little by little to ease the economy into the new equilibrium. If you really wanted to do something whacky (I don't know if this would work at all), you could try to have a contrary deflationary spending policy with something like UHC to put some workers out of a job. That'd be cruel to them, but if the economy required growth to facilitate the spending from the new SS tax cuts + higher pensions for old people then they could find a job elsewhere which could hopefully be buffered by unemployment or something. But the latter strategy seems unfair, it'd be better to just have a uniform, slower cutback on the SS tax.

This. Marine Le Pen would be Orbán II: French Bougalou.

Le Pen's economics are actually to the left of his, she wanted sweeping nationalisations and co-operatives in the party programme.

I will remind you that it actually always used to be called the "working classes", it is very recent we dropped the plurality. Even Marx divided workers into sub-section classes, and Engels went further with the concept of labour aristocracy.

The French Chickens seem to have voted for a Fox to avert rule by a Wolf. Really quite hilarious, but it's okay, comrades. Things must get worse before they get better. Frenchfags need to dust off the national razor.


People like you who don't speak French really need to be banned from talking about France. Literally look at Le Pen's policy direction now that Phillipot is gone. FN and Marine will say anything to get elected you fucking morons don't seem to understand that politicians lie.

Every once in a while I'll think of Benoit Hamon's smooth face and I really really hate just viscerally hate him.

if only
tho the media would've killed him

Lol at the delusion ITT.

Macron will rule for quite some time.

You're a million percent correct, and as someone who reads the French press I can confirm it. Philippe and Macron are back over 50% approval, and they're cutting off the Waquiez LR, who in turn are going to try appealing to people like Dupont-Aignon, Florian's crowd, and the FN husk.

The immigration crackdown by the interior ministry will be very popular because France is still a deeply racist country, and basically the old Center Right bloc has been capture by LREM which, until it dies out, holds the bourgeois and petit bourgeois electorate completely in sway.

Some people think degagisme will win in 22 but I doubt it. Melenchon's moment was this last election, but Hamon torpedoed it. He has a lot to answer for.

Melenchon would have won. I have no doubt about this.

Won't the cuts from the OP hurt him?

Don't bet on it. Five years is a long time.

no macron is a fucking god in france

The data from the UK suggests they take years to filter through and really be felt. His successor will likely take the hit.


Macron is reactionary scum sucking his banker master's cock

So is every mainstream politician. What else is new? Moneyed interests are always going to work sabotaging real leftists getting any momentum.