/russiagate/

Bumping for "muh dossier"

He literally doubled the sanctions

Congress is the one doubling the sanctions, mate. Trump is going along with it because stopping it would be politically dangerous.

People seem to forget that until the middle of this year, Trump was completely opposed to sanctions on Russia. Congress had to twist his arm to get him to do anything.

nytimes.com/2017/07/27/us/politics/senate-russia-sanctions-trump.html

You have to go back
>>>/reddit/

you're talking as if sanctioning russia is a bad thing
ruski porkies always wanted to be a part of the wider western cool elite club
now that they got bitchslapped with sanctions they're forced to rely on their national state daddy for protection

That's because he has literally done nothing, period. Everything he has tried this year has been blocked, saving signing a bullshit tax bill and destroying the environment.

Liberals seriously underestimate the civil unrest that will happen if Trump gets removed from office because of a media driven scandal. It's the only way to make him look like a victim and the Dems found it.

Have you seen Trump's approval ratings? No one likes him.

Peddled by who? :^)

It doesn't matter if a majority doesn't like Trump though. His base are literally a cult of personality worse than anything Stalin or Mao could have ever dreamed of. People who love Trump WILL die for him.

Heil daddy!

I mean people like Milo are a meme and an opportunist but here are Trump supporters even among the beta population of the aut-right who would at the least get hurt for daddy if he was successfully impeached and removed for office .

Nice try Vlad. Reported and saged.

>>>/reddit/
>>>/leftpol/

bump

I agree that this is being used as opportunistic ammo against Russia (ok, you seem to not make this point, but I think it's this moreso than cracking down on American dissent) - but don't really agree that there's no substance to it at all. After Flynn's plea bargain, that would be ridiculous. Stein may be innocent, many may be innocent - but I have no reason to believe that Donald and Donald Jr. and Flynn are just victims. They aren't railing against the neoliberal scheme. Sure, they've paid protectionism lip service, and they're incompetent - they make the country look pretty bad, they give foreign parties cold feet, I guess. But for all this, Trump also has a pretty consistent record of unaccountable corruption through his life. He doesn't have any innocence to really tarnish - and given his history, and what's been shown (again, partially by his own fucking son), it's not hard to believe he'd involve himself in something like this and the FBI would merely take the opportunity to get him on it.

There's also this bizarre Russia-sympathy not just with him, but for a while with various 300 Club-style studio conservative types. Steven Seagal does this shit, too. Putin has successfully appealed to a certain breed of American retard who think he's their social conservative pure-and-benevolent leader/friend.

Trump is stupid enough, spoiled enough, and scummy enough - of him and the FBI, I honestly think he'd be more ready to pull the more reckless stunt. Even the bullshit used to justify the invasion of Iraq was done with encouragement from the executive branch.

I really can't cease to be impressed at just the American media is both extremely collusive, and now willing to throw what remaining good reputation it had into the garbage for a futile endeavor. They just plain don't need to make up this Russia bullshit in order to smear Trump, that buffoon is so ridiculous he pretty much smears himself. And still they lie about him nonstop in the most obvious manners. The ironic result is that their campaign is having no effect on him, simply because their shameless lying reduced their public credibility to record lows. In other words, in the process of smearing Trump, the media made itself as credible as him.

Goongratulations, liberals. You have the almost entirety of the media of the world's most powerful country, yet you're failing through no one's fault but your own.

I never thought the institution of the press would be ruined by a process started by FYAD rejects and burnouts.

Of course they're corrupt. All of them are. Hillary herself sold uranium to Russian interests. Hardly anything to write home about.

Except for the thirty precent of the country who believes he’s the reincarnation of Jesus. And remember it’s those people who have the guns in Burgerland.

There's actually less solid evidence of this right now than of Trump-Russia campaign involvement - see Don Jr. Why, Clinton didn't even have veto powers over the Uranium One deal. Surely that exonerates her*, and we already know she's corrupt so if she had won in 2016 it would be imperative that we point out that Trump also was corrupt so whatever Clinton did that was being used as ammunition against her was nothing to write home about when anyone probably woulda dunnit anyway.

*Jklol

Trump is being targeted by neolibs for Russiagate, not for political reasons, but for personal vendettas.

We must support Burger Conservatives in there noble fight against imperialism.

The people in American media are in a big bubble. Most people don’t like them, but they don’t know that. They think everyone loves them.

What exactly are you calling bullshit about this?
Are you saying Russia didn't try to get Trump elected? If so, you're stupid
Are you saying the Trump campaign didn't collude with Russia? Well Australia just told us that Papadopoulos admitted to collusion and they reported it to the FBI, so you're ignorant there
Are you saying "so what if Trump Russia collusion is real because fuck the USA they do it too!" then ok that is acutally arguable

Reminder this was a thing.

archive.fo/rcufA

For months we've been able to read his own account of his idiotic odyssey that never amounted to anything. The Australian diplomat news added almost nothing to the story.

The ads identified were never solely for Trump. That's why the narrative shifted from "they were trying to elect Trump" to "they were mostly trying to cause chaos."

Also:
The entire 70-plus years? What?

Yeah, the internet allowed them to isolate themselves in their bubble. I confess I derived no small amount of sick pleasure from monitoring Twitter on election day. They were so absolutely sure Hillary had it in the bag because everyone in their Twitter feed was gonna vote for her.

I loved watching all the female "professionals" who supported Hillary for idpol reasons have huge meltdowns both online and in public.

>>>/liberalpol/

wtf

Russiagate is 100% fake news and Trump is not a criminal, mostly because Trump is just a capitalist and the capitalist system is designed to protect capitalists. And all this shit began because Trump fired Comey (a person liberals hated because they blamed his october letter for Hilary's loss) and the US Senate got worried. Mueller was the compromise, one which Trump had no problem signing off on because despite all the shittalking he knows he's innocent.

One has to look at the larger picture here. Mueller ran the 9/11 investigation, after which his recommendations evolved into the Patriot Act. That is what is happening here, Mueller is going to suggest some sort of bullshit (internet censorship, internet taxes, expanded surveillance powers etc) and Congress will not have any way to not pass them because anyone who tries fighting it will be seen as soft on Russia. It works to Trump's favor as well, as he can take the hardest line possible on Russia and get any military program he wants 100% funded.

What's the most frustrating to witness is that there are so many liberals straight up defending the NSA and alphabet soup agencies now because they seriously believe Russia is behind Trump and that giving these agencies more power will somehow stop him. This will have the expected consequence: less freedom for everyone.

What's even the point of trying anymore

At the end of this I unironically expect all social media services to require photo ID to use, and I expect all ISPs to require people to log into their accounts just to use the Internet (as is the case in Korea and China). This will also be used to monitor how much time people are online, and dovetails nicely into restrictions on internet use (which Korea and China already have but vis-a-vis online gaming). The silver lining is that tech companies will get fucked too, but only because we will all get fucked.

And this assumes nothing more overtly authoritarian happens, say some sort of god awful "free speech license" (which has been suggested by Dianne Fienstien, chair of the Senate Foreign Intelligence Committee before) or extreme restrictions on grassroots political advertising and campaigning.

Fake News muh ROG all hail the woke natsec state neoliberals are probably the only people more clueless than unironic Trump supporters. The omnipresent russian subversion narrative has structural parallels to nazi antisemitism. Liberal capitalism is not the problem, it's those slavs with their fake news, misleading people away from perfect economic rationality. I can't but find their faith in 'real news' charmingly naive, specially given that the liberal media has spent the last year spinning increasingly implausible yarns about Russian espionage,which are 'just like a spy movie' as we are constantly reminded, instead of going after Trump on economics. Trump is immanent to American capitalism, a sign of systemic collapse. Liberals are unable of presenting a vision of America that goes beyond a rational commerce-warfare machine, hence the need for a subversive Russian bogey which can unite the country in the absence of any positive shared purpose.

Holy shit it's true. No wonder the Tweiteratti and journalists (same thing) were crying so hard for papa Porky to moderate speech online.

We are sooooo boned.

From day one, I thought Russiagate was Hillary trying to make an argument for a 2020 run. There is no reason to run her after she lost to Trump. But now I'm starting to believe some of the right's narrative that she might be guilty of some bull shit. She definitely got too rich as a politician for my taste. Are the dems going to be able to prevent her from a 2020 run. I would never vote for her. Is working with the Dems a lost cause and we need a third party?

Shilling for Russiagate should be a bannable offense

How does this logically absolve him of anything? Trump U, treason, mob activity, whatever. If the problem is that capitalism gives capitalists immunity, why would anyone opposed to capitalism take up the cause of proclaiming capitalist innocence?

American memory in action - this shit goes back to before Trump was even elected. For the life of me, I don't get how one day everybody will be talking about something and a year later some fucker will insist nobody ever said anything about it until a few months ago. Does nobody remember the fits people went into over Trump's comments encouraging Russia to keep at it*. This shit just got worse as election day neared, and yet I've been hearing for more than a year now "You just wait, this shit will blow over in a month!" Whatever position you take, it hasn't - heels are being dug in, and if Trump gets off (whether innocent or guilty) it'll probably be to prevent true believers from shooting more people.

*Disclaimer: Allegedly keep at it.

This is completely believable - although one may wonder about the optics (which, to be fair, do not really matter to anyone involved). One way or another, we'll see expansions of Patriot Act powers - this was actually a Trump campaign stance itself.

Worse under Obama, really. That was when I started seeing ostensible leftists outright defending the Patriot Act, with the complete faith that it represented a "right to not be murdered" which outweighed my silly right to privacy and free speech and the like. Who gives a fuck if the thing even works to an extent worth these intrusions by the capitalist government, Obama runs it now and allowing the government this retarded amount of power could never backfire?

Liberalism is refreshingly demotivated right now by comparison.

You're bumming me out with your likely true predictions.

It is useful to get rid of trump.

I know Chris Hedges is a massive liberal but the picture he painted in his recent interview with Ralph Nader of what could happen if the Democrats get congress back was pretty fucking terrifying:

COMMENTS
Mr. Fish / Truthdig
Imagine yourself in early 2019. The Democrats, despite never articulating a political vision other than not being Donald Trump and refusing to roll back Republican legislation such as the 2017 tax bill, have regained the House of Representatives by a slim majority. They vote articles of impeachment. The Senate Republicans, pressured by many within their own party to abandon Trump because of his ineptitude, increasingly erratic behavior and corruption, call on the president to resign. Trump refuses. He uses the megaphone of his office to incite violence by his small, fanatic base. The military, whose deployment as a domestic police force is authorized by Section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act, is called into the streets to quell unrest. The United States, by the time the violence is snuffed out, is a de facto military dictatorship.

I agree

IF the Fire and Fury book is legit at all, which it probably is about 50/50, I honestly think the Democrats let Trump win because it would be easier to discredit him and then impeach him then try to apologize for all the awful shit that Clinton has done for 8 years

Wow I don't know how I fucked up that greentext so bad

I actually know people who voted for him specifically in the hopes of permafucking the GOP. And afaik there's never been any refutation of whatever leak it was that said the DNC themselves were basically covertly supporting him - ostensibly because they thought he would be easy to beat.

Is there anyone on Holla Forums not on porky payroll anymore?

Wew lad, I think the only one on porky payroll is you

I know about the Pied Piper strategy but its endgame was supposed to be Hillary beating Trump. I'm saying that at the last second the establishment simply allowed him to win because it would get neoliberal Democrats congress which would make the agenda of the Silicon Valley wing of the ruling class even easier to shove down everyone's throats than under Obama

I kinda assumed it was a catch 22 - either stick with GOP who will uncontestedly pass an xtra militaristic agenda in the neocon tradition or impeach dotard president and incur the wrath of murderous militiafags which then is used to justify the same exact authoritarian state that would have occurred via Trump anyway.

The notion of a choice of neoliberalism vs. "state capitalism" (in the current Russia/China sense, but not the ML sense) has been openly posited, and it's not impossible that the decision has been made.

Hello fellow Leftists!

But how does this make sense?

The point isn't that keeping burger conservatives in power won't cause a military dictatorship, it's to illustrate that there's no solution in voting for liberals

I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this

How much does porky pay you to say this shit online? I'm looking for a job too

So you admit that both parties are neoliberals and shilling for either one is anithetical to Leftism?

Then why are you shilling for Republicans?

I could just as easily as you why you are shilling for Democrats if you agree with me that they're relatively equal

lol because I'm not arguing for voting democrats while you're literally arguing that republicans have to stay in power or else they'll go full Hitler

And you can make the same argument with basically any leftist movement

I don't care if democrats want or don't want to impeach trump, but you seem hellbent in wanting him stay in power for some probably well-funded reason

You just called the democrats Leftist again lmao

also

You can but it doesn't make sense in that context because LEFTISTS want to SEIZE power for WORKERS. Democrats just want to keep perpetuating their own wing of the ruling class's domination over workers. Therefore, Leftists are going to fight tooth and nail to make sure that they win (in theory anyway, I know that this isn't how it plays out in real life but you don't really seem to care too much about reality anyway so i digress), and if they don't win and the government goes full Hitler using their attempted revolution as an excuse, which is possible, they at least had a 50/50 shot at actually changing the system.

The thought experiment Hedges outlined was intended to show that liberals, in this case the Democratic Party, would risk a full dicatorship situation happening just so they can continue to suck their donor's dicks and perpetuate their time in office while doing literally nothing for the working class. The rest of the article is him and Ralph Nader expounding this point to illustrate how futile it is to vote for Democrats and why a movement outside of the two parties should be built.

On top of that it's quite literally a thought experiment. That's it. Hedges isn't saying that's literally what is going to happen and neither was I, the point was just to show the futility of liberal "democracy" and how anti-democratic it actually is (I know I've basically said this 3 fucking times now but you're having a really hard time understanding it, probably because YOU'RE the one who is being paid not to understand it by David Brock or some other pigfucking Clintonite)

Either way liberals get the bullet too and if you can't get over that you should fuck off to reddit, liberalpol, or leftpol

Nobody is talking about the democrats here. We're talking about republicans and why are you shilling so hard for them to stay in power.

there's a difference between showing neutrality or equal enmity towards cadets, trudoviks and other such groups like most leftists do, and actively cheering and defending the monarchists and reactionaries like you do. They're both terrible but for some reason you want the later to stay in power at all costs.

Hidden chuds will get the bullet too. You're not fooling me lol

Source

Source

Ah I see you aren't a CTR shill you're just a Chapo red liberal who likes to larp as a "Real" Leftist.

lol better luck next time bro.

I'd suggest you go for another type of propaganda, the "if we replace this capitalist with this other capitalist, it's gonna be the end of the world!" narrative is not fooling anyone. It didn't work for Hillary and it's not gonna work for Trump either.

...

really got me thinken

The intelligence of Jacobin readers ladies and gentlemen

you started by quoting former NY Times writer Chris Hedges and now you're criticizing Jacobin magazine

also

I am having a giggle right now

Chris Hedges at least advocates for overthrowing capitalism and has had the dignity to write about figures like Rosa Luxemburg, the Black Panthers and so on in a positive light. He even said that as much as he disagreed with the American Communist Party (as it existed back in the Burger Labor Movement's golden age) "got it right". He's still a liberal because he advocates pacifism but his analysis is at least correct for the most part.

Jacobin literally just published an article about how the Paris agreement is "radical"

see

Meant to say that as much as he disagreed with the American Communist Parties support for Stalin they still "got it right" as far as organizing, I haven't slept much the last couple of days

Also am I a Chud or a liberal? You keep accusing me of being both but as I understand it (I don't listen to Chapo so correct me if I'm wrong) they aren't the same thing at all

Democrats and hashtag resistance types will completely forget about Russia once Trump is impeached. It really has to do more with getting rid of Trump than Putin.

Also Trump definitely laundered money for Russian gangsters in the 90's. There's no denying that, and that's likely what Mueller will get him for. But the idea that Russia threw the election to a Trump campaign that they were supposedly in cahoots with by exposing like ~10,000 people on Facebook to targeted fake news is absolute nonsense. Hillary would have lost the election to a fucking doorknob.

Why do you constantly live under this delusion that chuds and conservatives are also not liberal? Do you not know what liberalism means?

Republicans are completely in tune with the Democratic party except with some small differences on a few social policies. And even there it's mostly bullshit, look how many times conservatives got power and didnt do anything about abortion.

Is your attraction to the american right-wing so strong that you refuse to think they're an equal part of the problem alongside dems?

It honestly makes no difference if either party is in power, in fact Chris Hedges himself made that point that Democrats will likely keep the GOP tax bill in effect. They will also likely drag-out the impeachment shit as much as possible because they def want to run against Trump in 2020.

There's just no logical reason to defend Republicans or want them to win, just like with Dems. They're two shitty parties who serve the same capitalist interests.

So why do you keep doing it? Why are you so "scared" of Trump being impeached? He'll be replaced with just another evil porky scum.

Again, can you please show me where I displayed an affinity for the American Right wing?

I literally agree with everything you just said except for the implications that I like right-wingers. And if liberals and chuds are the same thing why did you explicitly defend voting for liberals and why have you spent this entire conversation trying to rationalize doing so?

Also if Trump getting impeached just means more of the same than its a moot point and you've been arguing literally nothing this entire time.

Because you literally made an argument that opposing Trump will make america worse, turn it into a military dystopia.

You've basically suggested that Trump is better for leftists as president.

I didn't though, I said the portrait painted by Hedges was scary and then you acted as if voting for liberals made a difference and also said that there are Leftists in the Democratic Party, and we went from there.

You realize that this is (or at least was for a long time) the consensus on Holla Forums right? Oh wait you don't cuz u didn't even lurk for five minutes before posting

But you're the one saying voting for liberals is gonna make a difference for the worse, that somehow replacing one brand of capitalism with another will result in a military junta leadership. I'm the one saying it doesn't make a difference either way. And I never said that Democratic Party has leftists, I said that leftist organizations oppose Trump too.

Are you mentally retarded or something?

It's the consensus of Trumplets like you who pretend to be leftists, sure.

The consensus on the left is that liberals and conservative are both bad, not that conservatives are slightly better and we shouldn't piss them off or else they might bring out the guns. Only the chud-left like you and Chris Hedges make that argument.

Then why did you advocate voting at all, specifically for liberals? Or did you mean something else by ">we should never vote for liberals or leftists again"

Who are all these Leftists not in the Dem party in america by the way? Cuz if you can name them for me perhaps I will vote for them

One more time: Chris Hedges hypothetical was to illustrate how liberals have created the problems they bitch about and how continuing to trust them to fix it will only make things worse

You argued that we should trust liberals and vote for them (and some mysterious Leftists outside the two major parties who apparently have a real shot at winning) and then proceeded to call me a Right winger for arguing against that. Then you doubled back and agreed with literally everything I had already said but continued to call me a right winger and pretended as if my choice of reaction images delineated my political feelings, which is honestly such a weak argument I have a hard time believing you even took it seriously

But it's okay sweaty keep being buttmad because I called you a liberal for explicitly implying that if we don't vote for liberals we aren't "Real Leftists" and then changing your argument to one that agreed with 98 percent of what I said so that you didn't look so stupid for inferring that reaction images=political affiliation (again if you had lurked at all you'd see an anarchist posting a reactionface with Stalin or Lenin in it or a ☭TANKIE☭ posting the catgirl, who is an ancom kek)

I didn't. You're the one saying that people should be terrified of liberals getting elected and nobody should oppose democrats.

Do you understand how greentext works? I was paraphrasing you.

You're quoting a liberal to imply that Democrats getting congress back would be an apocalyptic dystopian event, basically suggesting me that I should vote for the GOP to stop it from happening.

In the same post on you're agreeing with someone else that "shilling for Russiagate should be a bannable offense", which is also some more convenient pro-GOP shilling from a totally-not-Trump supporter.

lol yeah sure you would. The guy who shills for republicans for the last couple of hours and calls CTH and Jacobinmag "red liberals" will totally vote for non-porky politicians.

Corbyn for examples opposes Trump. Maduro opposes Trump, Kim Jong Un opposes Trump, Ortega opposes Trump, Castro opposes Trump, american leftists like Ajamu Baraka and Gloria La Riva also oppose trump, without engaging or associating themselves with Democratic party jingoism and liberal bullshit.

Would you vote for these type of politicians or is their opposition to DJT too much of a dealbreaker to you? Are they also "red liberals" whose elections might terrify conservatives into implementing military junta?

Should I just vote for the GOP because I'm too much of a pussy to fight capitalism just like you do?

No, I didn't. I argued for opposing Trump, which is what seems to piss you off the most.

I called you right-winger because you're terrified of Republicans losing power and Trump possibly getting impeached. That's pretty blatantly right-wing. Hell, you pretty much admitted that you think he's "better" for the left.

*republicans

This. If you think the aut-right is going to do anything then you are over estimating them.

what are they going to do, start shooting up their fellow citizens? theyd be getting into a fight against the government, who also have guns and more.

And, so

Mostly, yes.
This is already how they approach this most of the time, with the occasional Bundy standoff type thing thrown in. Trump himself would retain a faction in government, as the question of his legitimacy (or the counter-suggestion of his legitimacy in spite of impeachment) would start this off. We know a number of people Trump has decidedly played to, too - the armed nuts, yeah, the militias… but also military-industrial diehards, aggressive/crooked cops (see the pardoning of Arpaio) and border patrol, various million-and-billionaires, etc. The police force itself sees crossover with white supremacist groups. His cult isn't an entirely external thing at all.

then why dont they just go ahead and erase everyone else if no ones gonna stop them? you know they want to.

I didn't say no one would stop them - they'd probably ultimately fail, and regardless suffer heavy losses. And the government would be genuinely split - the military, for the most part, would probably side against Trump - some military fanatics wouldn't, but mostly the military would probably stick with the process rather than run off to join an undisciplined lunatic in massacring the general populace. Same with the alphabets - there would be significant rifts, there, but they have procedure.

Russiagate is 99% bullshit.

But we should keep an eye on and stamp out Russophilism among fascists. Russia deserves better than being loved by Western fascists.

According to high-ranking US officials, Russia even meddles in fantasy countries:

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/nikki-haley-russia-binomo-prank-us-ambassador-election-hacking-interfere-putin-a8133041.html

Russian interference in Gondor when?

I take no pride in it. A few months ago I was watching CSPAN and some FBI agent was reporting to the Senate FISC about "Russian meddling". He seriously suggested that the government help the tech industry "self regulate" by creating an ESRB-equivalent for online websites, along with a "snopes for politics". If such a thing were to pass, the opportunities for abuse would be endless.

I don't see a way around it, although I expect enough people to get mad when their furry yiffing sites are blacklisted for violating some obscure technicality and turn towards clearnet alternatives like Tor, i2p and Freenet.

Trump wouldn't go that far. More likely he'd be backed into a corner by the military-industrial complex and green light literally everything they want. This creates a defacto dictatorship however Trump wouldn't be running it, some random bureaucrat like the DHS chief (who is confirmed by the Senate) would.

Trump would just be a pen to sign off on whatever the military wants funded, and the military wouldn't self-deploy to American streets. Such a thing would be too obvious, also the apparatus for expanding the DHS into all corners of American life via the Patriot Act already exists and can be used by having the TSA take over Highway Patrol duties, which the US government would be capable of doing as nearly all American highways were funded by the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act of 1956. CBP already operates interior checkpoints which Trump has already stated he will expand to all 50 states if Congress does not pass immigration reform.

This all ends with porky's boot up everyone's ass and the people who should be screaming the hardest about it (SJWs) will probably end up defending it because it will be seen as a move against Trump and Holla Forums. Divide and conquer.

Again, this why people didn't want the Patriot Act (which Mueller largely created) passed, because it created this entire setup by consolidating all domestic policing into the Dept. of Homeland Security (controlled by a Presidential appointee) and not the Dept. of Justice (controlled by the Attorney General and Supreme Court, both of whom have their powers created and overseen by the House and Senate judicial committees).

He's going to build on that and make things much, much, much worse in a way most Americans will tolerate. That is what is most disgusting about this, concerns over freedom will move from pat-downs inside airports to checkpoints outside major cities.

Also source on the above image:

fema.gov/fema-regional-contacts

Let me guess, 2016 was your first election.

Democrats (or rather Hillary) certainly let the GOP win the house. Not so sure about the presidency though. Hillary and her cronies would have loved to "govern" with a right wing congress.

But if it's fake how come Drumpfs son meet with that chick and dude, I know Obama Admin let them into the country but how is that not a little smoke to the fire? Plus they meet in Drumpfs office, how can Drumpf not know about a meeting that took place in his own office with his eldest son? Plus apparently it was for "dirt". I personally feel like there is more to this but we'll never know and it'll become a JFK type of crazy person conspiracy theory.

The Dems' approach to congress is trash in general - and because of it, they also have a fundamental disadvantage in executive elections.

Meetings don't inherently mean collusion or conspiracy. Trump has business dealings in Russia (especially attempts to license out his name on top hotels), which ties into his larger tax evasion. There's more than enough plausible deniability here, because he's likely committing a whole host of other financial crimes instead. Ones which Russia's military wouldn't be able to use as leverage against him if he were President.

However, Dems are only willing to accept the idea that Trump conspired with the Kremlin directly to undermine American democracy. They are not willing to accept that he's just another capitalist doing what capitalists do: make money in immoral ways. Really it's just narrowmindedness that is ruining everything about this.

You mean the ones who didn't work for the government

why does anyone take this seriously

It probably isn’t total bullshit but im betting this is less a quid pro quo thing than a “Jared uses his Russian Jewish Chabad connections to enrich himself and his family” thing, plus general incompetence (Flynn)

They're pretty much the blind people writhing in their own shit and can't find their way out from Blindness by Jose Saramago.

What the fuck are you talking about
Jared's got a lot of Israel connects but nothing in Russia as far as I've been able to tell from reading

politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007

“Also present at the Sapir-Rosen bris was Kushner, who along with his now-wife Ivanka Trump has forged his own set of ties to Putin’s Chabad allies. Kushner’s family, which is Modern Orthodox, has long been highly engaged in philanthropy across the Jewish world, including to Chabad entities, and during his undergraduate years at Harvard, Kushner was active in the university’s Chabad house.”

“Kushner and Ivanka Trump are also close with Abramovich’s wife, Dasha Zhukova. Abramovich, an industrialist worth more than $7 billion and the owner of the British soccer club Chelsea FC, is the former governor of the Russian province of Chukotka, where he is still revered as a hero.”

Eh this just means Israel has cucked Russia, doesn't necessarily prove "collusion"

Fucking worst timeline

Thoughts?

nothing's gonna happen.

...