Yeah I know there's a lot of (well deserved) criticisms of Jacobin as an outfit and they gave it a meme Christmas Eve...

Yeah I know there's a lot of (well deserved) criticisms of Jacobin as an outfit and they gave it a meme Christmas Eve slot, but considering this board had several threads with hundreds of posts each analyzing a much smaller exposure debate on the topic by youtubers, it might be worthwhile to watch and discuss the points being brought up in this - especially as it informs how the topic is being breached in the "mainstream" and what the core divisive points are when the topic is breached/where the debate is "centered". Also, what was completely missed and what would you bring up that wasn't brought up?

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ignore my funposting flag
debate link

Wtf I'm eating dinner with family


Pretty shallow shit tbh

I wanted to watch, but I was dragged to church by my extended family. Guess I will stream it later.

I don't think anything got really settled and they unsurprisingly circled around succdem stuff for most of it

Go full Christcom on them.

you should do that regardless its the ultimate redpill

I love these "capitalism vs socialism" debates that are actually "having any social programs vs complete social darwinism" debates

One thing that I hate is that the socialist side always argues from the back foot.
You have to set the stage and say what your programme is and not allow yourself to be overrun with stupid idiots talking about 'socialism is this, socialism is that' when they don't know what they're talking about.


Yeah but the socialist side kind of won the meta-framing by inviting "open border - fuck donald trump" meme-libertarians that no one in the real world agrees with anyway

You mean democrats?

I don't like throwing the USSR under the bus. Imagine if in this debate had to answer how Russia went from getting ass kicked by even the pathetically weak Austrian-Hungary (that even couldn't deal with Siberia) to the USSR steam rolling over the Nazis in 1945. Or why the capitalist space agencies are a half century behind the feats of the USSR.

On the other hand, even if you're sympathetic to the USSR and the plight of the people who fought in their revolution, we're not Russian peasants and our material relations are not those of early 20th century Russia. Our attempts at socialism would necessarily look nothing like theirs and I think USSR memes get people bogged down in the wrong questions.

With that said the whole Jacobin line of "we need market socialism that would eventually transition to something else as technology developed to take over market functions" is iffy at best.

Yet it is questions the libertarians never could answer. That is why they deny even the CIA's history of the USSR and why they only want to talk about the Soviet bloc in the 1980's.

They picked pretty boring people on both sides.

Better debate

Good for you annon. Hope you enjoyed yourself.

Found a better one

Fuck Jacobin.