Why do most Socialists these days defend Religion and Religious people against mockery...

Why do most Socialists these days defend Religion and Religious people against mockery? Pretty much most Left leaning communities online you will get instabanned for even criticising religion or people for religious beliefs especially Islam.

What the fuck is a Religion beyond just another ideology that's so fucking old it's taken on cultural significance? What next? Defending Fascists when they claim that Nazism is a religion? Hell it's gotten to the point where leftists are defending Islamo-Fascists against criticism.

Is it just a leftist reaction to the reactionary character of Neo-Atheism? Because the Neo-Atheist movement is filled to the brim with "I'm so smart I'm a classical liberal" reactionaries, doesn't mean that we should be throwing away one of the core tenants of Socialist ideology which is Religious abolition.

Other urls found in this thread:

ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Why Marx was not an Atheist.pdf

They think its slippery slope to racism.

…I don't see actual socialists and leftists doing any of that.

Because it's orthogonal to the issues at hand at best, and disingenuous cover for nationalistic beliefs at worst. In 99% of cases religion is simply an extension of one's birth culture rather than active dogma, and does not matter at all.

It's weird how leftypol is obsessed with calling out "idpol" but also really wants to dunk on Islam whenever the opportunity presents itself.

I'd also invite you to document cases of leftists defending Islamism rather than Muslims as a population. I don't think you'll find many cheerleaders for Saudi Arabia or the Islamic State.

christ, I remember being an edgy tween and thinking his videos were actually good.


the right hasn't made much of an effort to disprove that

The only people who say this are people who are obsessed with centering their activism/praxis on anti-theism, and so anything less than agitating for the removal of all religion and religious people from every corner of the world is "defending religion and religious people" but of course they end up just succumbing to the same bland neolib/neocon consensus as every other "militant atheist" since Hitchens

Less of a slippery slope, more just overt racism with one pedantic escape hatch (islam is a religion not a race) when confronted on that fact.
If their rhetoric had a target that westerners are more sympathetic towards, like jews, this would be much clearer.

1. communists never attacked religious workers, it attacked religion. mockery against their leaders and education, not belittling and snobbing.
2. especially islam is attacked on racist cultural imperialist grounds that are used for justification of war. there is nobody defending islam, we're defending muslim workers.

i'd say 90% of "religious" critics are actually just racists that found a way to express their hate.
they are easy to spot.
a true relligious critic will target the religion, the racist will target people and sometimes use racial slurs.


I criticize the nazi for their misanthropy, the liberal for their impotence, and the nationalist for their myopia.

Why would I spare the religious man?

Because shitheads let Catholics ruin the American left.

Ah, the Islamism meme. The one that ignores the inconvenient instructions directly from God to subjugate Christians and Jews while exterminating pagans. It deploying it you have done exactly what OP accuses you of.

In the west atheism (or rather "New atheism") is pretty reactionary nowadays. I'd rather side with peaceful working class religious communities than yuppy skeptics.

ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Why Marx was not an Atheist.pdf

Islamic socialism is the only ideology equipped and ready to fight liberal totalitarianism



Is it just me or was atheism at its strongest in like the mid 2000's?
You know like dawkins and bill maher, and the amazing atheist and all that edgy shit.

I think atheism was strong on the internet too.

But atheism has seemed to die down a little from its extremism.

I think the stuff that factors into this are obama winning, the internet being flooded with normies, and the christian right sort of losing with that gay marriage shit.

The right wing rebranded as nationalists. Trump winning has asserted that.

Christans sort of went off into their corner. I have to say in retrospect the west boro baptist church had to be the most obvious controlled opposition of all time

With the Christian right muted the atheists have no purpose to rage against anything anymore.

To tell you the truth i have an odd feeling in my bones that Christianity and religion might make some sort of come back soon. People are divided and lost and looking for purpose.

All baboons men have to go the zoos. We do not require baboons.

Bye bye baboons!

Oh another thing thats funny is that black americans have always been deeply religious while white leftists wanted to destroy Christianity.
Even cornel west who knows a thing about socialism and neoliberlism and capitalism still says he is a religious man

To tell you the truth i think if there is ever a communist revolution in america its going to have to make amends with Christianity. Its too deeply ingrained in the culture


right. you could at least quote the Quran if you going to be that inflammatory

Religion should be abolished, and I do not say that as a "fedora tipping atheist."

The mid 2000's was great for alternative religion. I didn't see much atheism on the internet at that time. As people have become more cynical and nihilist, atheism has become more common nowadays, but i think soon mainstream religion will make a comeback. People in shitty situations generally become more devout. How did we get into this shitty situations? Most intelligent people fell for the nihilist atheism meme, and that gave way to rampant consumerist ignorance and a jaded culture, because nobody has done anything largely positive for a long time.

This doesn't make you a racist like some people would say it just makes you an idealist

i remember when i joined a "peace group" discussing shit and organizing travels to demonstrations
got banned for pointing out that the war against libya was yet again based on NATO war mongering and that green libya shouldn't be bombed
i try not to fall into sectarianism but now they act like they knew it all along how shit would end and i just want to round them up in a house and set it on fire…

More like organized religion, can't police the spooks other people use to satisy their ego

If you indulge your ego on behalf of belief in a spook, then you are NOT AN EGOIST! YOU ARE SPOOKED!

No need to worry friend, Saif Al-Islam Ghadaffi is gonna free africa with the new green guerilla army after he wins the elections. It'll be the first assymetrical world war. It's gonna be so fucking cool.

Congratulations, you have correctly identified the term the Qu'ran uses to refer to Christians and Muslims and posted to a wikipedia article that supports my argument. I'm not actually interested in arguing with anyone these days. It's a complete waste of time. I just want civilization to hurry up and end so I can laugh at watching everyone die.

Being spooked is simply not realizing you're spooked, from there you're an egoist. Stirner was a vegetarian because it made him feel good, if Islam made him feel good he'd still be an egoist

Anti-humanists are fagtrons

Whatever. Nuke the whales.

Retarded non-argument

So you could believe in islam and know it's not true and be an egoist, but as soon as you believe in islam without any doubt in your heart at all, then you are spooked and therefore not a true leftist? JUST AS I THOUGHT! GADDAFI WASN'T A TRUE LEFTIST BCUZ HE WAS SPOOKED!


It's not about truth cuz truth is just as much of a spook as Islam, it's 100% the ego

I mean the whole spook thing is ultimately intended to point out when abstract concepts and devotion to them diverges your interests from your "actual" material interests but it's obviously not always black and white and no one is actually spook-free

Hezzbollah you nigger

The fedora tippers tipped too hard and now it's not cool to be an atheist on the internet anymore. All the cool kids know that basic white bread Christianity is the real deal.
Christfags should be shot tbh

The term you're looking for is Salafi.

Islam would be nowhere near as violent without imperialist destroying another Middle Eastern country every couple weeks

I've heard Salafist and whabbist used interchangeably before
Would you say Salafist is more accurate?

Islam is a scapegoat for material poverty within the Arab world. The neocons want to continue killing them and taking their stuff, so they blame Islam. The center right knows they're the cause of instability and just want to get the stuff without even thinking about the people. They'll send some drones and call it a day. The left wants to end the killing and rebuild the region, but doesn't have the resources to do it. The arab world is fucked unless China actually builds up their infrastructure for trade. Hard to imagine the ecological havoc that would bring. We might as well let the region waste away.



MMMMMMMMMMMM thats good neo liberalism

Generally. It's worth noting that many Salafi will consider "Wahhabist" perjorative.

Because most workers are religious. And we aren’t going to have the workers support us by being condescending to them and things they value.

*Islamic Rossa Killingism is the only ideology equipped and ready to fight liberal totalitarianism

Christ, I remember that I liked his shit a couple years ago. I'm not a fan anymore but it looks like he's done some better projects.


Islam became violent the moment Mohamed the Pedo Warlord got more than a dozen thugs you retard.

New atheists ruined atheism.

While Europeans were butchering each other over petty scriptural minutia, while they were burning "witches" alive, the "pedo warlords" in Arabia were developing science, mathematics, astronomy, and poetry on an incomparably higher level than Europeans at the time.

Yeah and what have they done lately besides blow themselves up

The gulf monarchies littlry have so much money they are playing real life with cheat codes.
They probably cant even cum like a normal person anymore. They got to have like a Japanese girl shove a fish up their asshole and lick a door knob to cum.

And what do they spend that money on? Infrastructure? science? technology? If i had that money the middle east would be a fucking cyberpunk wonderland by now and religion would be dead.

But noooooo they spend it on whabbism and extremism, and spreading thier fucking retarded religion to the world so they can suffer too

Everyone is ruled by their ego and they would rather be right than free????????? I just watched my libtard sister agree with me about something (yeah x is true) then 15 seconds later completely reversed her position to be like (well thats because x isn't true), and the tone was the most finger pointing shame on you you better run everything by me before you think tone of all fucking time.

Libtards and Cuckservatives are fucking retarded, left vs right is divide and conquer, you literally argue over whether we should have roofs over houses or electricity.

Captain Obvious has just saved the day again! *flies to sun so I die and never deal with you stupid niggers again*

Discovering the processes for DNA repair apparently.

There was a post on Faggit today with 20 trillion upvotes where people who protest against pedo priests, scam churches, religious senators controlling their body, and preach ATHEISM!!!!!! Were like omg you ruined a churc you are a bad person people find peace in church violence is bad why be rude to somebody just because you disagree with them? Ok, so if you spend your entire existence gossiping and trying to ruin the lives of everyone you disagree with through bullying, you are above bullying and gossip, and so you have the right to police anyone who bullies or gossips without checking with you first because you are the only person who doesnt bully and gossip and the evidence of this is the bullying and gossip you do 247 which proves you dont bully and gossip….what the fuck?

Tbh going to uni I am honestly surprised by all the atheist: I am not even that pious but "fuck religion" is the default opinion here, quite a culture shock.

Go back to the hovel you spawned out of

Fully benefiting from a country that accepts civillian collateral damage if their humanlifevaluescore is low enough, murders people for inanimate objects, tortures people, uses mob justice every time theres a chance for political gain, employs roided out cops who ruin entire families lives over drugs or nothing, is filled with spoiled brats who bully people for having the wrong clothes, and experiments on animals so kim kardasian gets new ass cream makes you the bringer of peace, and through non violent violence you can destroy everyone who disagrees with you. And roy moore is guilty before trial but without investigation Hilary Clinton never murdered or raped because if she did then a liberal lost an argument in the past and the ego is more important that logic and fairness so I should just let somebody who has zero integrity handle the speaking while i die in a cave…..

I wonder why. It's almost like the most powerful countries in the world bombing the shit out of you and pillaging all of your natural resources is bad for your country's development. Really makes you think.

Tell a liberal that the government they praise has murdered innocent people and they will say "yeah well thats not important" "thats not a big deal" or "what? You are starting to act weird. Are you ok?"

Yeah lots of judges are gonna accept the Harry Potter banish reality spell as a valid defense.

Sunni Islam died when when Al-Whabbi was born.

Sha Islam is still based.

They developed little to nothing. And what they did was despite Islam, not because of it (not at all surprising since Islam is against all you listed). Also citing poetry is pretty funny given their warlord murdered poets. You have no idea what Islam is, all you know it's a "minority" (they really aren't) so they can do no wrong.

it are mostly librals who do that i have yet to see a socialist/anarchist defend islamism.

Bill Maher please go

Good strawman.

Just stick to saying all religion is bad and spare us the cringe please


Under the Arab, the standard attained was wholly admirable; to Spain flocked the greatest scientists, thinkers, astronomers, and mathematicians of the world, and side by side there flourished a spirit of sweet human tolerance and a sense of purist chivalry. Then with the advent of Christianity, came the barbarians.

Adolf Hitler, Secret Conversations, 1941-1944, Farrar, Straus and Young, 1953, p. 542

The Arabian epoch (…) was the most cultured, the most intellectual and in every way best and happiest epoch in Spanish history. It was followed by the period of the persecutions with its unceasing atrocities.

Adolf Hitler, Secret Conversations, 1941-1944, Farrar, Straus and Young, 1953, p. 493

Remove spooks.

Purge 'em
Purge 'em all
take their gold
destroy their idols
burn their churches

Rise of reactionary New Atheism and fedora memes mostly. Either way religions aren't much of a threat nowadays, at least in the West where Church and State of separated.

these are not one in the same
we don't defend capitalism by defending uneducated normies that drank some porky koolaid either

I take it you don't live in Burgerland.

The US Republican party is in power and its main constituents are a doomsday cult.

Ah so whabbist is for bantz but Salafist is for actual discussion

Upper middle class suburbanites are not part of a doomsday cult (unless you consider capitalist ideology to be a doomsday cult.)

I'm talking about rural evangelical Christians who vote overwhelmingly Republican.

vastly overstated, most people in the holler don't vote, but yes the ones that do are like that. You also underestimate how many in the suburbs are doomsday cultists, if anything, since American suburbs literally drain your soul it's more likely you'd end up like Farnese in Berserk, worshiping a Freudian nightmare instead of God.

Not as overstated as you think, at least it's that way in the rural communities that I was a part of. When I call them a doomsday cult, I refer to their intense support of Israel so that the prophecies in Revelations can be fulfilled.

Weird, up here in the New England holler everyone's more or less a cultural christian, after middle school people pretty much stop thinking about it for the most part.

I'm more to the south so maybe that would explain it

Afghanistan was fine when it was under influence from the Soviet Union, it was only until the US funded Islamist extremism that it went to shit. Also red liberals will jump to defend anything of what they view as an aspect of a minority People’s culture, regardless of how ass fucking backwards it is. That’s the way the game of identity politics goes, and the fuckers are star players of said game.

although i'm baptised lutheran, i'm not religious myself. i might attend church on certain occassions, but this is mere folklore and tradition.
that being said, jesus was far-left, if not outright communist, which is why he had to die. so as a commie i'm ought to be fine with religious people who actually live after jesus' ideals. don't care if they additionally feel the need to believe in god as well, doesn't matter at all. not fine with missionary zealot types who use religion as a means to project power.

Well the problem is they didn't get to remove it from the rest of the world. Now the spook is removing us.


Thats not even close to true. Yes, there was the rediscovery of Alexandrian texts which sparked a short period of intellectual pursuit, but many of those discoveries were not used in any kind of uplifting fashion in regards to the majority populace before such pursuits were banned. Europe wasn't at all the hellscape. It wasn't great, but it definitly wasn't the movie portrayal your describing it as either with centralized centers of research into the "natural sciences" being backed by both kingdoms and the church and intense literary study being done by monastaries. Mandated witch burnings were actually also rather uncommon.

fyi but that describes the European renaissance as well. Almost nowhere in history do you have genuine uplifting movements where discoveries are made because people want to benefit the poor.

Also, all the anons in this thread conpletely throwing out historical materialism and materialism in general shows either how low this board has fallen after the bans or how stupid I'm for posting at hours like these. In regards to religion, at the end of the day its either:
Either way its a non-issue

Meant to add a reply to my post

Of course, I was more refering more to a feudalistic kingdom/civilization spanning adverse effect sense then an altruistic proletariat/serf focused sense

go away opium dealer

Read that quote again and drop the dialectical were your historical should be grave digger

Khrushchev's decision to abolish the church (again) was undialectical liberal horse shit.

Modern Communists should incorporate occultism and esotericism into their praxis.An example would be worshipping Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao as incarnations of the Hindu deity Shiva, the god of creative destruction and purification. This will turn communism into a vehicle for the same authentic/inescapable human drive for transcendence which feeds organized religion.

A lot of leftists and actually liberals feel the need to disarm all kinds of social tensions, like it's their duty that everybody got along.

gb2/pol/ with that shit

t. Chaya

לכי לישון חיה

I come from a catholic family and have never seen any reason to think that religion is inherently incompatible with a communist society.

From what I've seen, wanting to restrict religion further and further now puts you in the community of the Rational Skeptic™ community on youtube, your InfoWars™ watcher, your American Conservative voter™, and reactionaries in general.

I hate to bring up the long loathed "slipper slope", but if we start agreeing with reactionaries and the far right too much, when will it end? Currently they're supporting Imperialism, global Imperialism in fact; when it's just a bait and switch for forever war so the US military can inject trillions into defense titans like Northrop Grumann, Raytheon, and Lockheed Martin.

Don't fall for it. It just creates violence for the sake of creating violence, it encourages the population to slowly support more and more Imperial power.

That means at home as well, if we dehumanize the people our government targets, they're successfully selling propaganda that allows the voters to go en masse for the next candidate that promises to carpet bomb the Middle East to defend ISIS, while allies of the state in question keep funding and giving weapons to ISIS.

It's transparent. Dehumanize the local population that comes from that region, to allow us to accept the Military Industrial Complex and Imperialism far easier than we otherwise would have.

I mean for fucks sakes, we're worried about what workers wear instead of these wars? This imperialism? It's utter nonsense. All our nations for, all their wisdom, still believe they are morally superior to the nations they're bombing. And I for one, am about as interested in going to war with Iran next as I am having all my toenails ripped off.

Because we all know, all it will do is stir, not just America, but the Western world into a fervor of how mighty and powerful our militaries will be, and how its helping our economy, whatever excuse. And the abuse religious workers, who I really do not care what they wear, will be increased now with the power of the internet connecting every boomer to let their seething hatred for the Other oozing faster into reality again.

Short answer, hatred of Islam in a time where we want to basically turn the Middle East as a cash cow for perpetual death, not for their threat, not for moral concern; but for money, is seriously dubious for me.

Disagree with the text all you want, but I really don't think we should be encouraging ourselves to ally with the reactionaries who are gung-ho at the thought of further dehumanization of the people we're invading for no other reason than continuous profit.


It doesn't cover our current situation in which we are encouraged to dehumanize a group of people we're fucking invading for the purpose of its ever growing Capital. And the abuse certain workers face as a consequence of this.

"Religion is the opiate of the people."
~ Karl Marx

Further, religion currently serves as one of the main instruments of reactionaries. So even if you were to believe that religion isn't incompatible with communism, you'd still have to reconcile the nature of clergymen being overwhelmingly supportive of reactionaries.

The main issue with religion is that many religions instill an idea that suffering and injustice in the material world is admissible on the basis that you need only not sin and then you can go to heaven or what-have-you. This is an anti-materialist notion.

Other religions, such as fundamentalist Islam, make the case that the world should be ruled by Sharia Law. Extremist interpretation of Sharia Law is not compatible with Communism or even Socialism as evident by Afghanistan. I'm not discounting Islamic Socialism here.

Here's a point on Islam: many of the so-called Islamists fighting for the formation of a caliphate are only doing so because they don't have much in the way of choice. While there are militant Christian fundamentalists in the west who do engage in terrorist activities, they are comparatively less. People who are opposed to the very existence of Islam would suggest that it is because Islam is inherently more violent or terroristic. I'd wager that the reason there are more Islamic terror attacks is because most Muslims (especially in the middle east) are poor as fuck and have limited access to education whereas most Christians reside in the west, no?

I'm not opposed to spirituality or even theism so much as I am opposed to organized religion. As far as I can tell you don't need organized religion to believe in geezus or whatever.

It doesn't specifically address it, but it is highly relevant and compatible with such a critique.

t. idiot who hasn't even read the whole section

Maybe these nations are violent because we fucked them over during the Cold War, establishing puppet dictators that committed genocide and economic blockade, we have faux outrage, start the Gulf War; which does not do the Western Nations any favor. And then we start a war, that's lasted over a decade while propping up Wahhabism every step of the way. But certainly most of all, we've created a war zone in neighboring nations for the purpose of profit, not "moral integrity" that allows the worst aspects of a religion to flourish, which gives nations even more of an interest in the Grand Investment of War.

Which hurts the worker here that believes in said religion, because now they're associated with violence.

But who has been violent? Who allowed this to happen? Them, or us?

Because religion is the number one way to control a populace, it's literally the oldest game in the book but people in this 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧modern age🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 are born and raised to merely exist on the surface and to never look in or contemplate anything in life

No, war is.

Yes simple one it is but not just out right by itself, you are proving my point about people only existing on the surface, it's not as black and white as you think it is

also the west backed islamist movements to undermine communism. islamism served as an ideological competitor in southwest asia without the internationalist dimension that communism possessed. thus, islamism could stay relatively contained.

the strategy 'backfired' in a way with the iranian revolution and 9/11 but it was overall pretty successful i'd say. islamism does not and cannot pose an existential threat to the west in the way that soviet communism did.

Even in the most literal reading of Marx this is wrong. In fact, the most materialist and strict interpretation of Marx would yield the observation that religion is merely the catalyst in which people express their conditions and whose choice in belief and religious action is a "cover" or justification for that expression (i.e. under good conditions a religious body follows/chooses more secular and/or compatible beliefs as to benefit or integrate the most, under poor conditions a religious body follows/chooses beliefs which allows it to act more as an "opium" as to benefit or "escape" in respect/regards to its circumstances.) Religion to Marx is shaped by/is an expression of its conditions, not the other way around.

This really isn't true unless you define religion in a way to make the statement tautological, and is correct but any discussion on religion is filled to the brim with retarded idealists

no, money is

tfw the pendulum swings so much that religion is cool again :-(

Philosophically and theologically religion is "cool" even in a secular sense, the problem is religion and its study is now filled with larpers who treat it more as a fad or identity as compensation.