Assad calls YPG traitors

Assad is a fascist mass murderer and the only communist groups in the area are Kurdish. Their cooperation with americans is irrelevant as is assads cooperation with fascist Russia.(muh sarin muh barrel bombs)

So is this the thing that will cause another purge in Holla Forums and a drop in numbers

spooky
why do ☭TANKIE☭s love this genocidal liberal shitbag
Assad is postmodern gang?(muh sarin muh barrel bombs)

who cares fuck the over a dozen US military bases in Syria and fuck Assad

1.) PYD and PKK have decidedly renounced communism
2.) The communist parties in Syria support Assad

Idiot.

wew

rhetoric aside the Kurds are in the process of abolishing private property right now. They are still anti-capitalist.
And the communist party in America supported Hillary. Parties can be revisionist and just having support from a communist group does not make one a communist (Ba'athism as a movement never even claimed to be communist, if you really want to be charitable you could call them anti-communist socialists)

Fuck Russia's capitulation to America, only Syria and Syrians get to decide. Take off that flag you chauvinist piece of shit.

We're gonna abolish private property by making Syria the property of NATO!

Wahhabis aren't an ethnic group and they deserved it.

co-ops =/= socialism

They literally enshrined it in their constitutional efforts. Besides, private property can be cooperatively hold to. Just because you replace the bourgeoisie with an equal amount of employee shareholders doesn't make it less private property. Read Marx. That's not even mentioning the fact their are doing literally what Lenin described as imperialism (introduction of foreign capital interests through violence).
Yeah, but you need to argue why you think they are revisionist. They critically support Assad.

Fucking this.

private property in the Rojav.a constitution does not refer to the means of production

abolishing wage labor, however, is socialism. Which is what the kurds are in the process of doing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Communist_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Communist_Party_(Bakdash)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Resistance

yes
You’ve officially lost it.

You do realize you ☭TANKIE☭ idiots can oppose the US’s collaboration with the Kurds without supporting a welfare dictator like Assad, right? Claiming otherwise only reveals how juvenile your worldview is.

this description fits assad perfectly

spooky shit

With that said this shit has been telegraphed to shit and anyone surprised is on either side of it is fully retarded

What does being in the process of abolishing wage labour mean? What has been achieved so far? What are they doing to abolish wage labour?

Proofs of collaboration with ISIS or gtfo.

I would support the Kurds, despite their American backing, if only they weren't so disgustingly racist towards Arabs. Most are also extremely pro-Israel.

They keep cutting deals to allow all the ISIS troops to retreat and then grab the land that was occupied by ISIS. These deals are mediated by the USA. That's how "SDF" miraculously caught up with SAA in several regions.
Even aside from that, it's a fact that the USA and its puppets created ISIS. Therefore, anyone who collaborates with the USA is working to the same end as ISIS.

Actually, it doesn't you delusional fuck.

Actually it does you imbecile

Infantile. KYS.

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Fact: Assad is a Socialist

gowans.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/syrias-uprising-in-context/

SDF aren't perfect, but their existence in Northern Syria is better than all Alternatives, and Kurds, Assyrians, Turkmen, and yes, Arabs too, have the right to pursue socialism along their own paths.

collectivization of property and natural resources in the region means that agriculture and such is distributed according to need rather than according to market principles. that also means there is no wage labor in R0java like there is in the west.

Syria already underwent neoliberal economic reforms decades ago.

They made minor concessions in an effort to fend off the imperialist assault. Moreover, "neoliberal" is a fiction, there's only capitalism. You wouldn't support Syria even if there were never any reforms. KYS.

No, it doesn't. In scarcity economy on an individual basis (worker) labour gets exchanged for products. "Distribution according to needs" on this level IRL is socially necessary expenses, rather than "needs".

Moreover, over a dozen US military bases in Syria does not have Central Planning (one entity owning MoP of all collectives). Each collective is independent and MoP get exchanged, not distributed. This means that there is no "distribution according to need" on this level as well.

Also.

Aren't they collaborating with Russians now?

Be honest, why do you hate over a dozen US military bases in Syria

the board drama is killing leftypol.

8ch.net/1917/res/112.html

It's not up to Russia, it's the decision of the sovereign Syrian government.

Because it's over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

kek

They always supported the Kurds because they thought of them as more 'white' than the barbaric Arabs.

It's not utopian, it's their imperialist itch. While they on the one hand defend over a dozen US military bases in Syria from accusations that it's the new Israel, on the other they quietly relish this fact.

Why the bans?

youtube.com/watch?v=MnSAB4qeDug

You should read Marx to get a grasp what "according to need" means. It's a decentralized economy. The law of value is intact. Commodities are exchanged according to exchange value. That's capitalism. As long as surplus is allocated individually in accordance with profitability, it's not socialism. Sure, they are at war, but they are also heavily revisionist, rejecting class struggle, so it's not going to be any more than a libertarian social democracy.

Before you complain about a ☭TANKIE☭ conspiracy: they didn't get banned for rejected the Syrian government, they got banned for regurgitating neocon talking points (muh barrel bombs)

You are the only one talking about barrel bombs in the whole thread.

You're an irredeemable idiot if you think either of these things describes Assad.

There's nothing chauvinistic about syrians creating their own revolutionary government. Stop fetishizing a neo-liberal out of some backwards contrarianism towards burgerland. Literally nothing wrong with a neo-liberal losing power to a group filled with Marxist-Leninist guerillas and communists.

It's a group owned and run by NATO.

that's not what's happening in r*java, infact the point of the collectivization process is so that surplus is not distributed according to profitability. Yields from agriculture are distributed according to need not based within the community not based on markets.
PKK and over a dozen US military bases in Syria still take inspiration from Marx. Ocalan openly argues that the goal of the Kurdish movement is the abolition of capitalism.

...

but saa collaborates with isis
in fact rοjava was created because assad gave northern syria to isis

if Salih Muslim himself got onstage and said "I like to guzzle Trumps cum every night" you still wouldn't believe he was controlled by the USA

where do you come up with this retardation.

Nah I would probably definitely believe you at that point, but as it stands salih has said that the bases aren't permananet and there are no plans for permananent bases. It's more likely that the Russian base in Afrin will be permananent than any of the US bases. If you've got any proof billy then go ahead and share it.

oh, well that settles that, then. he said so, so it's true!

Who cares? That's up to the Syrian government.

So do you have any proofs billy or what?

Flag got removed for some reason

proof of what you idiot? proof that the bases will stay? the bases will stay unless the Syrian government manages to get rid of them. the proof is that they fucking exist.

Except the "self administration", the actual governing entity within the region, are in the only ones capable of removing the bases. Neither Russia nor Syria are going to direct war with the US to remove them. Of course, you've still failed to provide a cogent argument as to why they are more than temporary, as if military bases or embassies are permanent entities and not conditional.

How does this disprove the fact that the PYD (USA puppets) is deliberately and indefinitely keeping them there? All these airbases accomplish is giving air support to ISIS (such as in Deir Ezzor, and you CAN'T REFUTE THAT), killing innocent civilians (at a rate 30x govt reported stats) and destroying buildings and infrastructure. They have no "practical purpose" for the Kurds, the purpose is USA imperialism, and that purpose is indefinite.

Syria can and will place intense pressure on the imperialist encroachment.

The burden of proof is on you.

PLEDGE YOUR CRITICAL SUPPORT FOR COMRADE HITLER AND HIS STRUGGLE AGAINST AMERICAN IMPERIALISM AND THEIR SOVIET PUPPETS(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

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pyd exists because assad gave northern syria to isis
so the people there self-organised in order to protect themselves("assad gave northern syria to isis")

Thanks for your input, Gandhi.

I'm not sure how you expect me, or anyone for that matter, to disprove a negative. I can't say for sure that they won't, all I can do is weigh their current and past actions and judge from that. So far, they've done nothing to indicate that the bases will be permanent, explicitly stating otherwise. They have not established diplomatic or economic ties to the US, being closer to russia in both respects with the existence of an embassy within russia, as well as handing over oil fields to russian forces within syria. US and russian air support has been invaluable to the Y.P.G. in the course of the conflict, and I'm not sure how you can realisitically dispute that. The only reason Kobane didn't fall was because of US air support.

Their past action is allowing more and more US bases to be built, to no actual benefit of the actual Kurdish people.

I am saying, the only reason those bases could possibly be removed is pressure from the rightful Syrian government. If the Syrian government succeeds and kicks out NATO, no doubt you would say "hah! proves me right, they were temporary!" My analysis is based on the interests in the region. The PYD has not been protecting the interests of the Syrian or Kurdish people, while it has been aiding the interests of the USA. Therefore, it will continue aiding the USA as much as it can.

The SAA did indeed retreat from the region, though the details of this retreat are somewhat contentious. I have read previously that the government did help to arm the Y.P.G. in it's infancy, and FSA proponents have accused them of being "collaborators" for this very reason.

ITT: People supporting a russian Oligarch backed Neo-Lib just to spite a bunch of Ex-Marxist-Leninist Commandos and Libertarian-socialists just because they dont want to create Utopia on earth instantly

As long as America is the global hegemonic power they can never be trusted.
Isn't this usually what ☭TANKIE☭s say when they are trying to defend actually existing socialism? LOL

because its true
Being a complete ideological Idealist and not taking the actual situation on the ground into consideration is one of the main revolutions have failed

The benefit so far for them has been the continuous victories against IS, as well as probably preventing a full scale invasion by turky. The "self adminstration" has a much more socially just system then most of the middle east, including the syrian government proper. I'm not sure what the basis of your claim is that they've done nothing to help the syrian people, especially given the amount of IDPs being taken care of in the region.

wow, the shills are evolving. they think that pretending to be ☭TANKIE☭s by using ☭TANKIE☭ flags will somehow convince us that they're anti-imperialist.

Continuous US-mediated bargains for land swaps with ISIS.

do you not see how this represents the LEVERAGE that NATO has? If the PYD puppets stray from what the USA wants, they just tell Turkey to lob a few mortar shells over the border. This keeps them in line.

Imperialism is the greatest injustice.

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So the US is helping give land to the "self adminstration" in order to help ISIS, despite the fact that the "self administration" has been giving over land (oil fields) to Russia? Imperialism consists of more than just military presence, it necessitates the existence of economic exploitation of a nation by foreign powers, and currently the "self administration" is less guilty of that than assad who has sold state resources to foreign capitalists.

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This is some seriously spooky shit. It's also factually incorrect, the SyDF has never shown anything to imply they are working against the interests of the people in their territory, particularly working against them for the interests of the US. Also it's ironic coming from Bashar "I'm the quasi-monarch who is still only in power because of Russia backing me while I was previously ethnically cleansing a portion of my population because they were Kurds while keeping the region as an internal colony" Assad.

Give a single bit of proof that the SyDF does things explicitly because they are in the interest of NATO. So far everything the SyDF has done has been in their rational self-interest, while they have shown no loyalty to the US, as the Russian bases in Afrin, Russian support near the Euphrates, and giving the oil fields back to the Regime has shown.

The very fact that northern Syria isn't under ISIS control is the result of their agreement with the US. Even excluding ideology from this, if they did not get help from the US, then they would've been defeated and would've suffered the fate of the rest of Syria under ISIS.

Fuck off with these fucking spooks. It's not even rightful under bourgeois "democracy".
I suppose being the only force that prevented ISIS genocide and enslavement doesn't count as protection.
Give a single bit of proof it has done anything to aid the US. Those bases there have been used for nothing other then fulfilling the SyDF's goals.

There's MLs fighting and dying for the SyDF right fucking now. They would spit in your face if you called them an imperialist.

The only bargains I have even heard of is allowing ISIS to retreat from certain cities, this isn't optimal but it's certainly not some kind of collaboration, and using Tabqah as an example, the US bombed them as they were fleeing anyway.
Of course it represents a huge amount of leverage for the US, the SyDF knows this and that's why they're always been cooperative with Russia and have tried to be with the Regime.
Give a single bit of evidence that shows they're puppets and not independent agents taking advantage of whatever military aid anyone will give them.
I suppose it's even worse than Capitalism?

You couldn't be more of a caricature if you tried

great logic buddy

Are we being unironically raided by shills or have anarchists just reached a whole new level of delusion?

based assad

Calling someone delusional is not an argument

I'm not saying the US isn't obviously trying to make them puppets or have imperialist ambitions, I'm asking for proof that they have actually succeeded.

Castro has "decidedly renounced communism" too

Ebin.

It was actually the Syrian government that first began arming the YP-G. The SAA retreating is only half the story.

1.) They have renounced MLism, they have not renounced Socialism or in eventually creating a Communist society.
2.) the CPUSA supported Hillary Clinton

Wew

pick one

MLs aren't the only socialists around. Memechin is still shit though.

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Are the mods really purging anyone against Assad? He's just a neoliberal.
academia.edu/1804097/A_Comparative_Study_of_Neoliberalism_in_Syria_and_Egypt

M-Ls hold power as part of plurality governments in R*java, and Northern Syrians have the right to follow their own path, read Hoxha.

You can always check the mod log.
sys.8ch.net/log.php?board=leftypol

Im sorry, but why are we having a thread about the opinions of a neoliberal. Fuck Assad. His country is capitalist. His opinion is discarded

he's better than the alternative, but for whatever reason they can't see the ЅDF is too.

Assad>all armed opposition, but Honestly I think Syrians have much to gain by electing a new president(For all that loyalists speak of legalty, they're silent when it comes to the lawlessness of the Syrian government; an end to torture and murder, which existed for decades prior to so called wartime necessity, must be the perogative of the peacetime government). I think there's a good chance a candidate (probably a Sunni Arab tho) from the PYD could win the presidency in the coming decades.

Sure. But if you think Syria should become Libya 2.0 and ISIS should be allowed to sell women into slavery, I hope to see some red text in your post.

Being against the ЅDF is essentially the equivalent of this.

Haha can't mossad the Assad, am I right fellow leftists?

If people are banned for supporting groups that have tactically aligned with american government, then shouldn't all Bernie Sanders and Democratic Cops of America and UK labour party supporters here be banned too?

Or do the kurds have higher standards to meet than westerners when it comes to purity?

truly signifies over a dozen US military bases in Syria's lack of allegiance

k*rds should be genocided honestly

hello Holla Forums

yes they should be.
How is it aligned with USA's goverment?

In fact just IP ban all burgers just to be safe.

doesn't go far enough. All internet cables between europe and america needs to be cut down, so influence of US shitposters in ('((EU anglo sphere))') would be erased.

Comrade Ajit Pai was /ourguy/ all along. He alone can keep the burger menace off our sites

Kurdish interests align with both interests of NATO and Israel, they need to repressed until the Arab world's conditions change

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That would mean banning the Board Owner

you don't remember the whole Iraq war thing? Also there are still plenty of Progress types who would align with the US. and who don't want to leave NATO.

In fact, if we are banning people for supporting over a dozen US military bases in Syria because they have some US assistance, then why aren't we banning UK labour supporters who support a party that supports NATO?

oh no not that

Labour membership under blair wa like 200k, since Gorbyn it has ballooned to 600-700k. You are factually incorrect, besides even Socdem poster thinks Blair is a slime. Stop with your shit arguement.

Don't agree with banning Rоjava suporters btw, anyone who thinks Afrin YРGis pro-US is a fucking moron who needs to actually read shit outside of wiki pages on Souria

reiterating the call for barrel bomb to be filtered to smart bomb

...

Is that why they are fighting an insurgency against a NATO country?

DSA and other Rosa killers already have wordfilters. and aren't taken seriously.

Is this the thread you post in to get banned?

Why doesn't this guy just cooperate and talk with the ЅDF instead of sperging out. Because the last time the Syrian Gov. and the ЅDF talked only good things happened.
Let me set a comparison;
When the two factions where on good terms; joint Russian-SAA-MМC buffer zone in Manbij, over a dozen Russian military bases in Afrin, land swaps, joint militias and land control, Turks and ISIS BTFO, limiting US influence and having tea with downed Syrian Gov. pilots.
When the two factions where on bad terms; random airstrikes, Turks taking advantage, extending the war by a few years and increasing US influence.
Seems like Assad is fucking himself over by not talking.

Based. Always good to see anarchists getting BTFO. Now Assad needs to cooperate with anti-Zionist Erdogan (and not with pro-Zionist Putin) to kill off the pro-zionist racist Kurds, even if it needs to cede some northern land to Turkey.

Not sure if serious or just poe's law

It's serious. Do you have any complain about what I said?

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You're just advocating for the balkanization of syria in order to literally give land over to a NATO country, which in itself is absurd and loathsome but you go on to falsly accuse the revolution as being "zionist" and "racsist" despite being neither, and despite the fact that Turkey and Israel are both in NATO. Not to mention the fact that Assad's government has been chauvinistic and practiced ethnic cleansing, some which the "self administration" has been accused of but with no evidence to substantiate such claims. If moderation on here was at all consistent and intellectually honest you would be banned for supporting imperialism.

No.

he got b& tho

Israel isn't a member of NATO

Yeah, it looks like my report was seen and acted upon. Credit where credit is do

You're absolutely right, I mispoke.

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I wouldn't mind if over a dozen US military bases in Syria merely accepted US arms, or even if they had some US training or logistical support. No, the issue arises when they sanction an indefinite imperialist presence. That's where the line is drawn.

Even if over a dozen US military bases in Syria aren't just opportunists and are serious about whatever flavour of Anarchism they purport to subscribe to, the US is, and never will be, an ally to the cause. They're either utterly retarded, incredibly short sighted, or they're just not serious about leftism.

> that's not what's happening in r*java, infact the point of the collectivization process is so that surplus is not distributed according to profitability. Yields from agriculture are distributed according to need not based within the community not based on markets.
Not just yields from agriculture, but from any organized labour (primarily, industrial). And tt should be allocated not within every separate community, but within the entirety of over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

You are basically arguing that co-ops are Socialism.

I'm not sure I'm reading this right.

Ah. Wordfilter for R0java

of course they are. Reminder that acting contrary to the thesis is just further proof of the thesis's validity.

As an anarchist you should understand realpolitik

This, the Bolsheviks sold drugs, robbed banks, and kidnapped to fund to the revolution, being anything but Machiavellian while there are enemies around you is suicide.

No you moron, I advocated for an anti-Zionist alliance between Syria and Turkey, which might mean Syria ceding some land to Turkey in order to consolidate their alliance. Also I'm not necessarily anti-NATO, leftist pressure can turn NATO against Israel (a non-NATO member).
What is absurd and loathsome is leftists supporting anti-NATO and pro-Zionist Far-Right parties.

It's a fact that the Kurdish "revolution" is an ethno-nationalist i.e. racist and pro-Zionist movement. There are thousands of sources that prove that, not going to bother to post them.

Oh so mods unjustly ban people for having different views and so you take "revenge" by getting me, an innocent bystander, banned for a full month? For no reason? (the mod himself didn't give a reason) Even though I absolutely disagree with all the bans in this thread? Don't worry though I already asked to be permabanned from this shithole, this is my last post here.
As for imperialism: I fully support actual imperialism: conquering and annexing territory and then integrating and assimilating the conquered peoples as fellow citizens, what I don't support is what people here wrongly call "imperialism" which should be more accurately called segregationist colonialism and neocolonialism/foreign interventionism.
But forget that because Syria and Turkey mutually agreeing to ally themselves in exchange for some land is not imperialistic nor interventionistic in any way you fucking idiot.

You mean all that land formerly part of the Ottoman Empire? The pro-western Arab Revolt of 1916 against the Ottomans is just like present-day pro-western Kurdish Revolt against Syria. MENA countries need to put aside their selfish and petty national interests and unite against Israel.

So you agree with banning pro-röjava users such as yourself? This is a discussion forum you snitch, not a movement, the only posts that should be banned or deleted is off-topic discussion, arguing in bad faith and shitposting such as >>2318130

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They have done no such thing. There has been no statement of "USA is great liberator of the world and we're proud to be their eternal ally with many military bases to let them spread freedom" or even intention. If the SyDF was promised protection and autonomy by Russia and the Regime in exchange for telling the US to leave and they refused even if it was a better offer, than that would be proof that they are puppets. So far they have shown no unwillingless to negotiate with Russia or the Regime and have shown numerous acts of good faith, none of which is in the US' interest.
And they fucking know that. Literally everyone over there who has been asked about the topic knows that. The US was the only entity that kept them alive from ISIS, and is currently the main entity protecting them from a Turkish invasion. They are stuck in a very shitty position but they have maneuvered in it very well.

Is this thread going to stop attracting Amerishart apologism at some point?

Probably not. Guess it's like an idiot cull.

The threat from (US backed) ISIS ended long ago yet S.D.F keeps expanding and recruiting ex-Al Qaeda and ex-ISIS fighters. Moreover, if the US is able to threaten and manipulate these traitors with their ISIS fighting force so easily, then why would you have any enthusiasm for them?

Post proofs.

they openly brag about this. they are deliberately and openly recruiting from "FSA" and "defected" ISIS fighters. that's the whole damn reason S.D.F was made.

Afrin doesn't have 4,000+ US troops invited in by the over a dozen US military bases in Syria

While I'm aware the poster is banned, I think a clarification is necessary:

It's not "wrongly". In a Marxist discourse the term "Imerialism" since the 1917 became defined in a specific way (see Lenin's Imperialism). And it fits most empires (Roman, old European, and modern global corporations).

What you are talking about is usually called tellurocracy - as opposed to talassocracy.

It's a honeytrap thread, with a deliberately provocative OP, where mods have a licence to ban all dissenters. There had been several of those before. I'm not sure if I approve.

looks like about five bans itt though

Seemed to be more.

neither Syria nor over a dozen US military bases in Syria are socialist.

you all can guess what that wordfilter was for.

Syrian Democratic Forces response. (Pictures from joint Y.P.G/ MFS offensive against NDF militas in Hasaka)

Didn't Assad release the extremists due to public pressure or something?

That's the story but I mean come on. Public pressure to release jihadists but not political opponents? Plus the militas in the Syrian Democratic Forces are still pissed since government forces and NDF militas basically left their positions when ISIS first came to the scene.

So did the Iraqi army. Middle Eastern armies are shite.

>6 devastating years later, the war is practically over. It's time to rebuild.
>…Actually, let's just start another conflict right afterwards after all your allies have been recommending against it
I wonder if he'll face a coup if he goes ahead with this.

Also lel @ SD.F re-affirming Syrian unity

The over a dozen US military bases in Syria is using the Americans, not the other way around. They don't want to (fuck, the CIA was clearly involved in Ocalan's capture) but the alternative right now is counterrevolution.

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It's more like the CIA being an al-Qaeda and Daesh asset desu. The CIA backed other jihadis (more pro-Saudi ones, Jaish al-Islam is the biggest survivor, Ahrar al-Sham was big for a while) that for the most part defected al-Qaeda or got wrecked by Assad.

Alphabet soup hasn't exactly demonstrated much in the way of competence in Syria, and the DF*NS warred for years with the groups the defectors defected from; they're on guard, don't worry.

They fucked up Bay of Pigs too. But it's not because they messed up their part of the plan, it's that someone else did not follow through.

Ah yes, I forgot the first commandment of Capital Vol. 1:

If i'm not mistaken, most of those are from Turkish backed rebel groups and scattered, non-HTS affiliated anti-gov groups (moderate rebels lul). Proofs for ISIS recruitment?

so they're fucking traitors.

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you are a fucking retard.

No u

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He's right you know.

YPG is just as much of a tool of american imperialism as FSA.

wtf I love idpol now

ASSAD 👏 IS 👏DUMBLEDORE 👏

Wait, so the Kurds are blaming Assad for inviting foreign terrorists and mercenaries when they are hosting multiple US bases? How fucking retarded is that?

Kurds want their own ethno-state. It's no difference, except they are actually occupying non-Kurdish areas.

Also, I'm sure it's PURE COINCIDENCE that they've manufactured a deal with ISIS but not with government troops so that both ISIS and S.D.F (which clearly is a Y.P.G. front) can continue to have clashes with the SAA. If that's not treason, than what is?

It's like people pretend that geopolitical interests of the US don't exist. I don't know how can still be delusional at this point - but after all, we all know that co-ops + feminism = socialism. Fucking pathetic.

BRUV THE SAA HAS MADE PLENTY OF EVAC DEALS WITH DAESH, literally everyone does it because not bombing out cities further is a good fucking idea.

You cant accuse a ETHNIC MINORITY that has no country of existing wrong
Assad thinks Kurds are like ISIS a fucking group that arrived there or something
They have ALWAYS BEEN THERE, THOUSANDS OF YEARS

that ceasefire was confirmed as a hoax a couple of days after it was published, you fucking mongoloid capitalist

What is this? Why doesn't the SAA crush this small IS pocket? Why are the SAA seemingly at a truce with this particular pocket of IS that is fighting with HTS? Hmm…

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Have u also considered how SAA hasnt attacked the pockets in Ghouta, Hama, Idlib etc???
SAA is obviously in cahoots with rebels

Guys Assad let all those FSA rebels leave Homs he must be a US agent collaborating with ISIS!

Also is there any real evidence that the US is even supporting ISIS? It doesn’t make any sense from a geopolitical perspective because ISIS is clearly hostile to America. So even if they did topple Assad it would not advance American interests in the region because they just would have replaced one hostile Syrian Government with another. The only “evidence” people seem to give is that time ISIS apologized to the IDF for accidentally shooting at them, or how American arms wound up in ISIS hands through the FSA.

No no no, you don't understand. Prolonging the war for another 3 years is exactly what the Americans don't want us to do. There is simply no room for compromise.

lel, some people actually believe this. Kurds only moved into Syria in the beginning of the 1900s.

Yes, he was still thinking there was a chance it could be negotiated out. He should have done what his father did to Hama in '82

I Implore you to read chapter 8 of this book (The Kurds in Syria and Lebanon) especially page 114 that outlines how the Kurds have been living in Syria since antiquity especially in regards to the Kurd Mountains and the adjacent, more inland, Kurds' Mountains. Additionally a Danish writer called Carsten Niebuhr visited Jazira (now in Ro.java) in 1764 and recognised the region was inhabited by Kurds.
Stop listing to bullshit partisangirl propaganda and read an actual book.

kurdishissue.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/the-kurds-contemporary-woverview.pdf

Partisangirl?

An Australian who supports the Syrian Gov and a conspiracy theorist. Just google her fam.

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Kurdish held territory is both multi-ethnic and has representation for non-Kurds. Ocalan and the P.K.K. are against the creation of nation-states.

I'm curious to ask where you think they were coming from.

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That's a hot take right there

Turkey. They were being oppressed in Turkey and many moved into northern Syria as a result.

Kurds were already living there. Before Turkey and Syria existed as we know them today both were apart of the Ottoman Empire, which is why you had Kurds spread throughout the Middle East.

fuck your spooks you class collaborationist.

The FSA never existed, it was always a catchall term for opposition fighters. Al-Qaeda is one faction among many and I don't think it even ever operated outside Idlib.
You just made that up

Give any evidence that SyDF accepts ISIS defectors. Why the fuck would anyone do that, they'd have to be braindead to think they could be trusted.

The language tanktard Assad supporters use really shows their true colors. Instead of calling the Kurds opportunists or myopic, they use spooky words like "traitor" that implies they have an obligation to obey some booji fuck because he happens to hold a title.

So far there has been no evidence that those based have worked against the interests of the Syrian people.
Is that why they deliberately renamed the region from Rójava to the DeFNS in order to not imply it was Kurdish?

Oh shit, you are too far gone. There is also no evidence that the bases in South Korea are working against the interests of the Korean people.

The US general was bragging about doing nothing like yanks usually do. The DFNЅ was founded on the framework of Euphrates Volcano and talking more Arab inhabited lands from ISIS.
Ironically; you are the one who fell for a PR stunt.

You are fucking retarded. Not too surprising seeing how you're a ☭TANKIE☭. First off, McGurk suggested that the PYD create an umbrella organization, the over a dozen US military bases in Syria, to ease the tensions between America and Turkey. This was so America could arm the over a dozen US military bases in Syria through the over a dozen US military bases in Syria.
McGurk didn't think of the name over a dozen US military bases in Syria, he didn't even think of the name over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

I really wish your dad had pulled out.

fuck that filter

I don't know much about SK, but I do know there's massive anti-American sentiment there, which implies the Korean people believe the bases are against their interests.
That was the SyDF, not the DeFNS.

The DeFNS is the political institution of the region, it's not the same thing as the umbrella military force of the SyDF.

Come on m8, how are you not aware of the filter yet? It's so easy to bypass.

Read Ocalan. Also just look at the Syrian Democratic Forces flag. If anything, Assad and Assad jr. wanted an Arabic ethnostate and tried their best with Arabization

...

I was told they openly brag about it.

leftcom kurd gang

absolutely disgusting.

i came back home hearing that ISIS in Syria is defeated and that the russians are telling the US to fuck off.

anyone can give me a tl;dr on what's currently going on and what i've been missing out on in the last 4 weeks?

SHUSH YOU'RE MEANT TO LET PEOPLE WORK IT OUT

Russia is trying to negotiate a peace between the SAA, the УPG and the Liberal Revolutionaries: with a conference in Sochi coming up soon.

Meanwhile, in DeZ province the SAA & УPG are dealing with the last pockets of Daesh, Afrin is shooting at the turks and vice versa (as per usual) and the SAA is trying to deal with the Idlib pocket.

Oh, and hezbollah is heading home and preparing for their coming fight with Yisrael.

nice and concise, sounds good, thanks

stalinists ITT upset the over a dozen US military bases in Syria formed a temporary alliance with the U.S.

how ironic

hah nice filter.

well i've noticed a hatred for r*java on the hard left but they're not enemies of assad? haven't they cooperated together in military ops?

Hard Left (ML - the ones you call "Stalinists" like an utter retard) has no hatred towards Rоjava. It doesn't give a fuck about it. Syria is a total mess either way.

But BO and his mods are not ML (which is fucking obvious, if open you eyes and consider total absence of serious Communist flags - unlike Anarchist, for example). Consequently, we get swings - yesterday it was Glorious Revolution In the Making (despite clearly nationalist character of the movement and MarkSoc economy), today Kurds are class traitors and servants of American Imperialism (despite their objective necessity to stay alive - though, there is a lot to be said about small nations and historical obsolescence).

huh. you know, nice post. i repudiate my post, and i condemn myself and admit to the gravest charges of being a retard that have been leveled against me. i take full responsibility for this treachery, and i am prepared to face sentencing to the gulag.

on this glorious day, i swear… long live comrade stalin

You would be right if they forged a temporary alliance with the Americans. But the Kurds gave permission for US troops to stay in Syria indefinitely.
How does having US bases in Syria for decades help the Syrian Kurds stay alive?

Oh wait

Stalin never agreed to the US building bases on Soviet territory for an indefinite period of time - potentially forever.

It might be too early to call. If the violence ends and the U.S. is still there after a couple months I guess I'll withdraw support for over a dozen US military bases in Syria.

What options do they have?

[CITATION NEEDED]

And neither has the DeFNS.

well the Kurds, better integrate with the rest of the Syrian people, but if they have land grabbing intentions, they will end up crushed.

If they would just say "US forces can stay only until ISIS is finished", I would support them 100%.

Exclusive: U.S. forces to stay in Syria for decades, say militia allies

reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-exclusive/exclusive-u-s-forces-to-stay-in-syria-for-decades-say-militia-allies-idUSKCN1AX1RI

i don't think this supposed spokesman, silo, is trustworthy. he recently defected to turkey with rumors that he's either being blackmailed by turkey. and also, he's not kurdish but turkman, and he was part of a turkmen militia, not the over a dozen US military bases in Syria:

al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2017/12/sdf-commander-defects-accuses-us-dishonesty.html

the over a dozen US military bases in Syria/PKK is probably gunning for him now.

Silo doesn't even say it as a fact, he's literally just speculating and wishfully hoping.

Speak for yourself you lying worm.

you're not fooling anyone, anarkiddy

or remind me how they're going to pay out the "aid" the US is giving them? in over a dozen US military bases in Syria i presume?
i mean, you do know what lend lease means, right? your post totally gives that impression that you know what you're talking about, it's totally not an anarkiddy shitposting with false flag, i can tell!

To be fair to the K*rds, the US does not think it needs anyone's permission. The US will do what they will, and the K*rds will suffer what they must.

If they do as you say, and communicate to the US, please leave, ISIS is finished, the US will just turn around and ask, who is going to make us?

BO is an ML you mong; she posts regularly on /marx/ and even complained that MLs get too much slander of leftypol.

Which is hardly a sign of anything. Ismail has only superficial understanding of Marxism (not to mention, he also went anti-Stalinist after it was demonstrated that his ultra-Hoxhaist stance is clearly wrong).

You don't need to be ML to see the immense amounts of of bullshit we have to deal with. 98% of "critics" literally have no idea what they are talking about and are persistently arguing with an obvious strawman.

He did with Poltava airbase during operation Frantic. Picture related was a US parade in Poltava city.

Just to clarify my post that Stalin didn't have the bases set up for an infinite amount of time; just that they existed.

To anyone who rejects the democratic confederalist project in Syria: what is more important, socialism or anti-imperialism?
If collaboration with America means we have an actual socialist society then so be it.
Any critique I have heard about the DeFNS has never been economic. It's always based on the fact that the DeFNS is allied to America.
Who are the true class collaborators? People liberating themselves from neoliberalism, fascism and islamism or faggot ☭TANKIE☭s who oppose socialism in favour of a capitalist dictator?

USSR WAS A MURICAN PUPPET

only bunkers can save us from this rampant revisionism

Socialism. Anti-Imperialism is just a tool. Also, I do not "reject" it. I find it irrelevant.

MarkSoc is not Socialism.

Proceed here:

There is no neoliberalism, FFS.

The word "tankie" had lost all it's meaning.(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

yes, and it's totally the same.
switching the argument from "lend lease" to an air base lend for half a year while maintaining the actual superiority over the territory by providing the defense rather than letting a foreign force entrench itself.
that's like 1:1 the same thing going on in over a dozen US military bases in Syria lol! except that it wasn't a nationalist seperatist government in ukraine and some other minor details, like already existing foreign bases like the russian ones that actually attack the terrorists rather than bombing the regular troops, acting according to international law, but what are details when you want to lick US boots, amirite?
ISIS is considered defeated in syria. guess it's only a matter of months until all US operatives have left the area :^)
better screencap and repost when that happens, we'll be generous and wait until next summer

also "market socialism in one region with US bootlicking characteristics" is just about the same as a union of a dozen socialist council republics
that's totally going to be on par with the US occupying forces and have the leaverage to drive them out, so this is the one opportunity for ACTUAL REAL SOCIALISM™

LEND LEASE AND POLTAVA, gottcha ☭TANKIE☭s XD

I wasn't making any equivalence; I was just stating that his statement was incorrect.

I'll call your WWII American bases in ML countries, and raise you Guantanamo.

why are all the tanktards on this fucking board becoming such goddamn children.
for fuck sake your ruining discourse with your infantile clinging to this incompetent neo-liberal dictator of yours.

not really gonna miss him tbh

Miss whom?

Please, provide quote where I am "clinging" to anyone.

t. powertripping hotpocket

test

You still haven't provided any proof that he's neoliberal.

Proof of Syria being a socialist economy under Assad has been presented here:

You could argue that state-ownership doesn't necessarily mean socialism. That's an irrelevant argument, because the main issue is international capital wanting to privatize that government-owned industry for themselves.

All recent wars have been started against countries that have a mostly state-owned economy.

Countries in which international capital already dominates social and economic life are never invaded. There's no reason to.

Basically, if you are against Assad, you are literally supporting imperialism and international capital, against the interests of the Syrian people. Even a NATO study admitted most Syrians support Assad.

...

Timeline of Russian-Rojava-Assad relations:
(Very recently:)

My take on this is Assad is pressuring the over a dozen US military bases in Syria into having US troops pull out by threatening to work with Turkey against the over a dozen US military bases in Syria and Russia attempt to grab more favor with the over a dozen US military bases in Syria. However going through with it would be really damaging to Assad. It's quite a complicated game with the precedent of Russia-SDF-Assad vs US-Turkey being threaten to switch to Russia-Turkey-Assad vs US-SDF something none of the forces actually want. As Assad would hurt himself with Turkey and the US would hurt themselves losing Turkey.

Oh and I forgot the creation of a joint SAA-SDF operation room during the Dier Ez Zor campaigns

Plus Russia's help to the over a dozen US military bases in Syria in Dier Ez Zor

When did this happen?

How many problems could be solved by applying an extra large can of RAID to Turkey?

That “proof” that he is a socialist is only proof if you hold the brainlet position that nationalization = socialism.

The ☭TANKIE☭ response to this pretty much prives they care more about anti-imperialism then they do socialism, to the point of supporting capitalist Syria, itself a puppet of capitalist Russia. I have to ask, what the fuck do you expect over a dozen US military bases in Syria to do without external support? If they were all on their own they wouldn’t even be around anymore.

This post is proof your kind are just succdems with guns. Holy shit, what the fuck even is socialism to you?

Actually organize the Syrian working class.

That’s easier to do when you have a solid foothold, no civil war, and that working class isn’t fleeing the country in droves.

Do you even understand political context at all.

I am shocked

I concur that he strays from the orthodox of what is considered "neoliberal" (if such a thing exists)
but calling his economy socialist is probable one of the most brainlet things possible.

Soviets supported Bourgeois democracy of Spain against Fascism (picrelated - posters by SocDem of Spain), as well as allied themselves with UK and US during WWII. After WWII Soviets heavily supported secession of colonies from Europe and allied themselves - in some instances - with local Bourgeois.

What is there to be surprised about?

Well, I don't expect anything. Syria is a mess.

Sure. But he was answering to the question of what Socialists would be doing.

Personally, I would not hesitate to support them regardless of the number of military bases - if they were actually being Socialist (and not Nationalist, as they are). That, however, is not the case.

Socialism without anti-imperialism isn't socialism, it's social-chauvinism and social-imperialism.

Please tell me: if Communists invade a nation during World Revolution, is this Imperialism?

No

Implying there is anything wrong with being a Syrian nationalist.

Wow I guess a pluralistic multiethnic society where almost all of the economy is worker owned and operated is bad, but an explicitly nationalist regime guided by a crypto-fascist ideology like Ba’athism headed by a neoliberal monarch is okay right?

If they were, they would've been attempting to convert the entirety of Syria. Kurds are not exactly multi-ethnic.

Do you really expect a useful reply?

The P Y D has explicitly stated that DemCon is a model for entire Syria. Serok Apo wrote that DemCon is a model for the entire Middle East.
Where the fuck do you get your information?

How the fuck do you define nationalism?

But DeFNS isn't persuing any imperialist goals of their own, they are merely supported by an imperialist nation, just like every other group is.

Did they actually attempt expansion? AFAIK - no. Also, "DemCon" is still Market "Socialism".

Democratic Federation of Northern Syria. Still doesn't cover the whole Syria.

Yes. The backbone of the movement is Kurdish attempt at national liberation.

How daft are you? Why would they warmonger and risk more death for the sake of some LARPing western fags? Conflict is not the peoples goal, it's peace and stability.

What kind of argument is that?
Step 1: Look at a map of the conflict.
Step 2: Note which part of the country is yellow

Are you saying that the DeFNS revolution is nationalist because it was originally based on an ethnic minority's liberation from a racist dictatorship? That logic ignores the ideological goals and praxis of said revolution. Not to mention that arabs are now the majority demographic in the DeFNS

...

So why are you demanding from me to support them? They are doing their own thing, I do mine.

Try reading a bit more. Marxism is about Central Planning. They did not introduce it, they do not intend to do it later. Consequently, their movement cannot be recognized as Socialist by Marxists.

Simple. What they want is a secession, not revolution.

It is nationalist because it does not go beyond national liberation.

Also, why "originally"?

I wish over a dozen US military bases in Syria didn't side with the imperialists.

It's not explicitly siding as much as getting supplies and support. The line has certainly blurred with each passing day, but until they actually do something other than fighting ISIS I am willing to allow them the benefit of the doubt for whether or not they wish to achieve socialism.

No it isn’t, it’s about abolishing commodity production and socializing production. Its true that they haven’t fully done either, but neither did literally any other socialist experiment. Keep in mind that they have only existed since 2011 and been at war for that whole time.

That’s not true. The fact that they haven’t established socialism yet does not mean they aren’t socialists. The Soviet Union never established communism, but it would be incorrect to say they weren’t a communist movement.

They have said multiple times that they explicitly do not want secession, and their cooperation with the SAA and proposals for a new constitution for all of Syria proves their intentions.

Yes it does. Their movement has no ethnic component, and great efforts have been made to include non Kurds. Furthermore they want a complete overhaul of the political system at the very least, reorganizing it along the lines of direct democracy and federalism. I would say that as of right now their movement at least constitutes a call for the dictatorship of the proletariat through mass democratization of the workplace, state, and society in general.

From a Marxist perspective they have lots to criticize, but you have to remember that their ideological roots come from Bookchin and thus from Kropotkin. Just saying that they aren’t Marxists isn’t an argument, because they recognize that they aren’t Marxists, and don’t claim to be Marxists. Even if they are flawed from a Marxist perspective that doesn’t mean they aren’t worth supporting.

Because if you are a socialist you need to stand in international solidarity with other socialist revolutionaries that violently oppose capitalist modernity. If you don't then you are a classcollaborator and shouldn't even be on this board.

Then revolutionary Spain wasn't socialist, then the Free Territories weren't socialist, etc. Shit, then nothing is socialist other than your irrelevant wet dream that you'll never achieve. Keep LARPing

Not really. I can easily argue that they don't want secession because they haven't rejected any potential symbiosis with the regime. I can't point out that Serok Apo when he was on trial in 1999-98 rejected secession from Turkey. Hence it's not really secession. They have stated, however, that DemCon is a model for the entirety of Syria which is in stark contrast with the meaning of the word secession. Also, does revolution really devolve into secession if the whole country isn't under direct control of the revolutionaries? I just don't get this argument. And even if it was somehow secessionist then why would that undermine the anti-capitalist and socialist characteristics of the DeFNS?

That's where you're wrong, dude. Let me explain why, comrade. PYD is a small part of the larger KCK party. The KCK party is in direct hostility with America (just throwing that out there inb4 murican puppet meme) and it's primary goal is the national liberation of Kurdistan under DemCon; it's secondary goal is a regional revolution of the entire Middle East. With this deduction you might understand that national liberation is not the only characteristic of the kurdish revolution, but regional DemCon is. Besides, why does [socialist] national liberation contradict socialism? Socialism is the liberation from capitalist modernity, capitalist modernity characterizes the nation state. The kurdish revolution is in opposition to both. I really don't understand why you think that national liberation = not socialist. The only arguments you gave was "lol DeFNS doesn't control all of Syria so it isn't socialist." Military expansion is limited by their practical circumstances, not ideological.

Because that goal was achieved when the regime withdrew from Roj-ava. Their primary goal now is survival and self-defence. I'd also like to highlight the fact that the recent liberated ethnic arab territory has been intergrated into DeFNS, this means that the revolution is no longer kurdish majority but it is in fact multi-ethnic.

YES IT IS

Stop watching youtube or whatever it is that you get your education from. I'm betting on RDWolff and reddit, btw.

Marx, Civil War in France (1871):
marxists.catbull.com/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/ch05.htm
> If co-operative production is not to remain a sham and a snare; if it is to supersede the capitalist system; if united co-operative societies are to regulate national production upon common plan, thus taking it under their own control, and putting an end to the constant anarchy and periodical convulsions which are the fatality of capitalist production – what else, gentlemen, would it be but communism, “possible” communism?

Abolishing private property - private ownership of means of production. I.e. making society - as one entity - own and manage all means of production. This is what "socializing production" means, not creating co-ops. That would be Libertarian "Communism" - which has as much in common with Communism as National "Socialism" does with Socialism.

Soviet Union did. As well as DDR, Cuba, Albania. Maybe DPRK as well, but things are too murky for me to tell with any certainty.

They do not intend to do it.

The fact that they do not intend - does. I see nothing about actual Socialism in their program.

Replace "secession" with "autonomy" or whatever weasel-word that fits.

Switzerland is still Capitalist.

< anarkitty
You forgot to take off your shitposting flag. DotP is not Anarchist concept and it is not achieved through "mass democratization".

Yes it is. As I explicitly put it: "their movement cannot be recognized as Socialist by Marxists". I made no claims about others. It is perfectly acceptable for FauxNews to recognize them as such - even as Communists. But not for me.

They are not "flawed". They simply aren't Socialist. No different from LGBT. But given right circumstances - yes. They might be worth supporting. However, as of this moment, I don't see those circumstances

wew

This is describing a planned economy, not central planning. There is such a thing as decentralized planning. I didn’t claim co-ops were socialism.

No they didn’t. They still had commodity production and the state effectively had private property rights alienated from the workers. over a dozen US military bases in Syria is unironically more socialist than the USSR because at least it has worker control of the economy and state. The Combloc was state capitalism pure and simple.

This is part of the constitution yes, and yet the majority of industry and agriculture has been expropriated and is controlled and owned by workers.

Apo’s Economic program is broadly marksoc or mutualist, which is not socialist under the strictest definition. Even so it does a great deal to break the power of the bourgeois elites and to establish proletarian democracy. It advances the political position of the working class and thus is worth supporting. Lincoln had no intention of establishing socialism after he abolished slavery, and yet Marx himself still endorsed the abolitionist movement and personally congratulated Lincoln for his efforts.

Except what they are calling for is the adoption of a federal system for the entirety of Syria, guaranteeing regional autonomy for everybody. This is completely different from splitting up the country, since federalism is successfully used all over the world.

Except Switzerland doesn’t have worker control of the MoP as the dominant economic model, and even then Swiss direct democracy is still unarguably superior from a socialist perspective. Democracy may not bring socialism, but socialism cannot exist without democracy, and so we should support it.

So you are saying you don’t support movements that build the power of the working class and promote political and economic advancement if they aren’t explicitly socialist. Would you have sat out the French Revolution because the Jacobins didn’t call for the abolition of commodity production? They are worth supporting because they are creating the conditions from which socialism can arise, specifically the dictatorship of the proletariat. If you want to criticize their marksoc aspects then fine, I will join you. But that’s a really shitty reason to not support them at all, especially considering the other options available.

No, there isn't. At least I am not aware of any kinds of "decentralized planning" that are either not based on misunderstanding of Central Planning (an assumption is made that there is little-to-no information exchange and co-operation with the producers), or aren't barter-based Market Socialism.

You have to have one single authority (organized Proletariat - for ML) that is the ultimate decision-maker when it comes to production, otherwise independent producers will resort to exchange-based economy.

Planned Economy = Central Planning

So? You can't have society with 100% pure mode of production, and Communists are not delusional fanatics (unlike Libertarian "Communists").

The point of Socialism is to abolish Capitalism - by replacing Capitalist mode of production with Socialist (i.e. Planning), not to create some cult where every action is monitored by authorities (which is necessary for abolition of commodity production).

You are not making any sense here. Workers (Proletariat) are explicitly defined by not possessing them directly.

No, it isn't.

If that is what ideologues of Rojаva say, there is no ambiguity. Henceforth I support Assad.

Come on, guys.

I’ll conced this, but central planning in and of itself does not constitute socialism. The abolition of commodity production does not constitute socialism if it is not accompanied by the establishment of the workers as the ruling class. This latter part is something that has actually been achieved in R*java, but the former parts have not, as opposed to the rest of Syria where netiher has been achieved. This is why socialists should support the D F N S.

Exactly, and in seizing the means of production they abolish themselves as proletarians. This didn’t happen in the USSR because the state was politically alienated from the workers, and it controlled he MoP. Therefore the proles were still proles governed by an alienated bureaucratic elite. This is not the case in over a dozen US military bases in Syria, where despite the existence of markets workers now govern their economic affairs directly and democratically. They have abolished themselves as proletarians, and established a proletarian state governed by direct democracy, something that the USSR failed to do, or at least did briefly before it was undermined.

So you support a neoliberal monarch over the people literally turning the MoP over to workers and democratizing every aspect of public life? Some Marxist you are.

Nothing says "pluralistic multiethnic society" like ethnic cleansing.

express.co.uk/news/world/581497/West-closest-allies-Kurds-Islamic-State-torch-thousands-Arab-civilian-homes

The UN literally said that those accusations were bullshit.

rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/14032017

Burger detected.

>Article 39 Natural resources, located both above and below ground, are the public wealth of society. Extractive processes, management, licensing and other contractual agreements related to such resources shall be regulated by law.
>Article 40 All buildings and land in the Autonomous Regions are owned by the Transitional Administration are public property. The use and distribution shall be determined by law.
>Article 41 Everyone has the right to the use and enjoyment of his private property. No one shall be deprived of his property except upon payment of just compensation, for reasons of public utility or social interest, and in the cases and according to the forms established by law.
That doesn't look so bad. Though I don't know what "just compensation" will amount to. If you think these are the only articles about property, I have a bad surprise for you:
>Article 22 All international rights and responsibilities pertaining civil, political, cultural, social and economical rights are guaranteed.
I guess that would include respecting international regulations about "intellectual property".
>Article 32 …exercising the right to freedom of association, political, economic and cultural expression of all communities is protected.
Freedom of economic expression sounds like a great BS excuse for deregulated "free-enterprise" zones.

Any source from this on the ground in Syria? Any videos of this democracy in action?

Eh, private and personal are used interchangeably in translation with regards to property: the legal difference between them only really exists in Britannic common law. One could equally translate it as persona property is upheld.

counterpunch.org/2017/09/01/creating-a-participatory-system-of-economic-democracy-in-rojava/

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Syria_regional_elections,_2017

cooperativeeconomy.info/how-do-cooperatives-work-in-rojava/

Democracy isn't inherently left wing. Many aspects of public life must be controlled by the state.

Knee-Jerk Anti-American Contrarianism: The Final Stage of ☭TANKIE☭dom

That Ito manga kicked ass.

why is everyone in here are against the kurds and support a fascist like assad ?

no idea why you'd assume anyone has a problem with NATO and CIA or the agitation against such an evil and vile person as [put name of evil dictator that has to be taken out for US interests].

of course it makes sense to support the over a dozen US military bases in syria over that guy because they make actually real socialism in one region with decentralized capitalism but it's feminist so that's really cool you know, also kurdish nationalism but hey, fascism is evil and you wouldn't support that, amirite? this is just a lend lease kind of thing and growing dependend on US military personal, boots on the ground (but we'll only talk about air force because i want to compare it with some air base in the ukraine the soviets would allow american bombers to be stationed at while maintaining superiority over the territory and insisting on providing the defense but it's still totally the same like over a dozen US military bases in syria).

makes sense dude, just chill, the ☭TANKIE☭s will go away with their mean propaganda against actually real true socialism in one region with US bootlicking characteristics but feminism and kurdish nationalism lol!

...

he basically just listed out all his points for you, nice reading comprehension

making an incomprehensible, borderline schizo-rant with a tasteless level of sarcasm mixed in, is not an argument

When did r.ojava claim it was going to take out Assad?
And why do you support neoliberalism under the name of “socialism”?

Whenever this comes up as an "argument" it's clear the poster has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.
But that's not the actual problem here. It's not even ignorance, or misguided idealism. No. it's deliberate disingenuous lying and shallow fanboy-ism.
If you're not interested in doing basic elementary research on the region, the conflict or what drives the various parties. Nor have an interest in intellectual honest good-faith discussion: Fuck off.

Also you are a brainlet. Go read a fucking book.

It never did. Prior to Assad calling them traitors, the DeFNS was looking for reconciliation with the regime as long as their territory and autonomy was respected. After Assad called them traitors the tension is simmering. If Assad ever learned anything from his catastrophic rule he would have tried to reconcile with the DeFNS. Instead, Assad has forced the hand of the DeFNS to rely to some extent on western support and protection because of his dictoral personality. Also, ☭TANKIE☭s will support anything before socialism because of their crypto-fascist sentiments.

Tankies are half baked socialist and red liberals. Nothing new.
The whole r.ojava debate isn’t even over socialism. It’s about the love of a neoliberal because he’s a big strong leader.
LIBERALS

I think it's perfectly valid to criticize DeFNS, but becoming 3d chess incarnate and supporting Assad over DeFNS is insane. Any "socialist" who supports Assad is not a socialist, pure and simple. Can someone fucking explain to me why ☭TANKIE☭s are supporting Assad?

They support him because they are taking literalist interpretations of Lenin on the issue of imperialism. They argue that because imperialism is the highest form of capitalism, to fight against it is the purest form of anti capitalism. Of course Lenin never said this, just that imperialism is the logical and inevitable conclusion of capitalism, which is true. However he sure as shit didn’t think that supporting non-imperialist capitalist states was the solution, and it would actually be reactionary by definition since it would only lead to the earlier stage of pre-imperial capitalism. Because they hold this retarded belief, they also reason that the most advanced imperial powers are the highest of the highest capitalist actors, and therefor take priority among other imperialists. So that’s why they are perfectly fine making excuses for the Russians and clinging to spooky bourgeois notions of legitimacy (Assad is the legitimate government of Syria, the Russians were invited etc.) In their view this is okay because it works against the interests of the biggest baddest imperialists there are: the US. The same retards probably would have supported Hitler in 1939, and they definitely would have supported the Japanese.

I’m sure Lenin is spinning in his grave whenever people try to cite him to defend this, idk if he would have supported R*java but he certainly would appreciate the mass democratization of their society. He also certainly wouldn’t support Assad.

the argument goes that just as anti-capitalism has reactionary and progressive elements (after all, neofeudalists are anti-capitalist, too), so too does the anti-imperial struggle. you have reactionary anti-imperialists like saddam hussein and some elements of the iranian government but also progressive ones like hezbollah, pflp and gaddafi.

Thank you for explaining. It confirmed my suspicion that they are retarded.

they literally never say this. you can't find a single ☭TANKIE☭ who says this.

Yes he did, just fucking read Lenin. Read Left Wing Communism An Infantile Disorder. Lenin always supported strategic alliances with bourgeois parties with open criticism GIVEN THE RIGHT CONDITIONS. All of his statements that communists must "root for the defeat of their own country" specified it for communists in imperialist countries. Imperialist rule from afar is a hundred times more reactionary than having a developed national bourgeoisie.

YEAH, ☭TANKIE☭S SUPPORTED HILTER AND TOJO, NOT STALIN, MAO, AND KIM IL SUNG

I’ve seen plenty of them say this.

I didn’t say ☭TANKIE☭s at the time did support Hitler, I said if the current Twitter ☭TANKIE☭s had been around then they would have, according to their own logic. They support reactionaries all the time, it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that they would back literal fascists.

Except he would never back staunchly anti communist bourgeois nationalists like Ba’athists against a genuine democratic proletarian movement like R*java.

Found the screenshot I was looking for.

No, you absolutely have not seen them say this, because it is a complete distortion.

You're a fucking retard, twitter ☭TANKIE☭s unanimously love Stalin, Mao, and Kim Il Sung.

The Syrian government literally has seats in Syrian parliament and supports Assad you stupid fucking chauvinist.

*The Syrian communist party literally has seats in Syrian parliament and supports Assad you stupid fucking chauvinist.
typo

They do now with the benefit of hindsight, but applying their logic to the situation as it existed in 1939 they would have to support Hitler. He was struggling against the forces of Anglo French imperialism and reclaiming the territory they took from the oppressed German nation, and the Japanese were doing the same against Britain, Holland, and America. These people support fascists and imperialists all the time (see Baathists and Russia) as long as they fight against the dominant imperial force, so there is no reason that they wouldn’t back the Axis.

Assuming you meant to write the Syrian communist party here. Look up the relationship between Ba’athists and communists, it isn’t a good one. Also the Russian communist party are brainless Putin drones, and the Syrians are the same as Assad. Putting “communist” in your name doesn’t make you one.

No it wouldn't, this is an utterly infantile argument, it's like I am really arguing with a little kid going "nuh huh it would be like THIS" in the face of all evidence. Any twitter ☭TANKIE☭ worth following actively reads Stalin, Mao, and Kim Il Sung and is simply applying their logic to the present situation. You need to READ Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Kim Il Sung, stop regurgitating this nonsense and rotting your brain.

And YET, the Syrian communist party supports the legitimate government! That's the mark of true communists, they recognize the real conditions and act accordingly.

And who is the real arbiter in this, some literal child who posts with angrycat on leftypol? Someone who can't even be arsed to read a fucking book?

who the fuck is this dumb bitch and why is she pretending to be Marxist Leninist someone please give her an ice axe

You seem to be missing the point. Today, ☭TANKIE☭s support fascists, imperialists and reactionaries as long as they oppose the dominant imperial power. So why would they have any problems supporting them in 1939? Especially considering the Axis narrative (Germany vs the Anglo-French imperialists, Japan “Asia for the Asians”, etc) Fuck the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact would have sealed the deal, since as far as the public was concerned it meant Hitler and Stalin were on the same side. They only support Mao, Kim and company because they know what came next, but if they were living in 1939 they wouldn’t have known this. Keep in mind I’m not saying all MLs do this, just the ones that prioritize anti imperialism over class struggle.

Exactly, they are controlled opposition supporting a bourgeois Government puppetted from Tehran and Moscow. Their support for Assad is proof of their class collaboration, not their legitimacy.

Well a prequisite of being a communist would be to support communism, not a neoliberal nationalist.

No they don't, because this situation literally doesn't happen. By definition, someone who opposes NATO imperialism can't be fascist, imperialist, or reactionary.

hurr durr hurr durr

Literally Infantile Disorder, fucking read Lenin.
marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/

...

at least we will have true communism in one region with a dozen US military bases in syria.

Is anyone actually arguing for this? There is a huge difference between "Leave Rohava alone" and "Assad needs to be deposed".
Neoliberalism is partially to blame for this mess (Including a miriad of other problems such as drought, climate change, automation in industries and agriculture driving unemployment, etc.).
But as far as the official position of the DF.NS goes; they don't want to remove Assad. It's never been their position. They had plenty of time to stab Assad in the back: They could have turned on the SAA in Aleppo, they could have ignored Raqqa and attacked Deir-ez-Nor instead. They could have gone after the remaining SAA and government holdings in Qamishli. Or even aided the FSA when the government was at it's weakest.
They could have accepted Barzani's offer of Peshmerga forces. They could have just played ball with Erdogan and sold the Syrian oil to Turkish traders.

They refused. Every. Single. Time.

Lmao I guess be Taliban are progressive now.

Right, because the most communist thing you can do is to support a bourgeois capitalist regime with ideological ties to fascism and a long history of brutally repressing communists. Lenin totally would have done this.

The Taliban was created by the USA and then used an excuse for invasion. As well, many Taliban cells are ISI puppets.

Yes, Lenin would have supported Assad, period the end.

1. they had shoot outs with the SAA. they're just not so retarded as to escalate it to the point where they are faced with getting fucked death in the sand.
2. their allies are already attacking the SAA, purposefully, and aim to dispose Assad.
3. where were their actions against US supplies for terrorist groups and attacks against the SAA?
4. what's up with that turkish corridor that allowed oil trade with ISIS? really makes you think. it's almost like they're US bootlickers.
fuck them.

That’s not entirely true. The US backed the Mujahideen, which included numerous different factions. The Taliban didn’t emerge as a faction until after the Soviet retreat and collapse, and fought against the Northern Alliance, which was the coalition of Mujahideen factions that actually fought during the war. Even if they were the same faction that fought the Soviets (which they aren’t), they clearly don’t serve NATO interests today, and so by your own logic you should support them.

They also cooperated with the SAA. It was the Syrian government that originally handed over control in Qamishli, and they've also supported the YP.G on occasion.
Local misunderstandings and tensions are almost inevitable in a complex conflict like Syria. The actions of local SAA/YP.G commanders doesn't reflect the position of either the Syrian or the Ro.javan government as a whole. If you have actual proof that the upper echelons (Such as the Ro.javan executive council) authorized a campaign against Syrian forces - with or without cooperation with the Americans - that would actually be damning. But a few isolated shootouts are not policy. Not in Syria, nor anywhere.

Keyword: Allies. Most of who operate outside the YP.G command structure. Problematic. But not policy.

You mean their fight against ISIS and FSA forces? Because they've been fighting both for years now. The latter on occasion. They've also been fighting Turkish supported "rebels" that replaced the ISIS corridor west of Kobani.
They're doing a pretty lousy job at overthrowing the Syrian government if that's their goal.

You're holding Ro.java responsible for something they did not play a part in. In fact, the YP.G/SD.F tried to close the corridor. As a result John Kerry told them to back-off, and Turkish troops were send in to prevent the cantons from linking up.
Really makes you think.

is this just shitposting or are you genuinly this retarded
yeah, they're not playing a part in this at all, all they do is ally with the guys who started this whole shitfest for their nationalist motives doing retarded shit all over the place
but it's cool because regional real communism with US bootlicking characteristics FTW

You're resorting to a strawman. I was replying to the comment about SAA-SD.F/YP.G shootouts. Obviously the bases thing is their policy. And for good reason. (More on that later)

Yes, they're not. Now provide a source or stop moving the goalpost. I already gave an example of the SD.F/YP.G trying to counteract this, and they were both rebuffed by Washington, and faced a Turkish invasion. Do you want the sources?

Initially to protect themselves from a genocidal death cult. Should they just have laid down their arms and let ISIS rape and slaughter them? Also it was the Syrian government that originally ceded territory to the YP.G. If it wasn't for the northern resistance the war may very well have ended differently. Aleppo was inches away from falling. How do you think it would have ended with thousands of additional ISIS troops, or all the material that was lost in the fighting in the North?

The PYD and DNF.S/Rojavan have repeatedly rejected secession and (ethno)nationalism in favor of ethnic pluralism and Syrian unity. You'd know this if you did your research. They even torched an opposition party's HQ because they advocated for ethnic cleansing. Do you even have an elementary grasp of DemCon or PY.D/Ro.javan politics?

Rojava is hardly aiming for communism (I.e. the abolition of commodity production). Their movement has socialist leanings, but that's really just the side-effect of socializing the means of production. They're not principled communists.
However, they're not bootlickers either: They're shrewd practitioners of realpolitik in the face of genocidal powers such as ISIS and Turkey.
If you weren't such a hysterical fanboy you may have been able to comprehend this. There is a lot of nuance between "ultra-nationalist imperialist bootlickers" and "noble principled communist anti-imperialists".

How can you be this fucking delusional? Yeah, Al Qaeda just secretly took over the USG and manipulated the CIA into supporting it. This is indistinguishable from Holla Forumstard logic.