Venezeula and the Aesthetics of the Pink Tide

I am just a poorfag communist burgerstani without strong (explicit, yeah I know my spontaneous experience is shaped by ideology regardless thanks Uncle Ž) ideological convictions regarding any particular

But I dont know how to feel about Venezeula. I dont want to root for cops because I hate pigs like nothing else but I dont want to root for reactionary colonialcuck scum either. Im not trying to have some 2D hate or love for Venezuela and I want to support them unconditionally against foreign imperialism but I legitemately have no idea whether or not it is their own citizens in opposition to the gov, if people are really hoarding food, etc. Does anyone have any especially reputable sources about the conflict there? Call me a faggot but I dont trust teleSUR or BBC.

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Ask yourself this: in what other scenario would I ever support the pigs over the people?

Venezuela is still capitalist. 70% of the industry is privately owned. Only the oil industry was nationalized, not housing, not agriculture, etc. If it goes down, very little will be lost.

Tbh the best stance to take on Venezuela is that Chavez was a good egg who did nothing wrong.

Honestly, the best position to take is that the US stays the fuck out of the entire situation. Regardless if the PSUV remains in direct control, shares power or is utterly overthrown but opposition to US imperialism in Venezuela is of immense importance.

And anyways, Venezuela is WAY more complex than most people realise. Going by my mate in Panama, a possible scenario is that the new opposition (the opposition is divided between the new lot that have come forth since 2014, and the ones who say Chavez's first election was illegitimate) could share political power with the PSUV while hte PSUV retain military and economic control.

Its worth defending and supporting the government of Venezuela to a degree against western lib fear mongering and opposition lies. Whatever the crimes of the current government are, know that the opposition would be a thousand times worse if they had power. The only hope the left has in Venezuela would be thrown out the window as soon as the opposition gained power.


I'm not really interested in a place that can't forge a path to communism if it's not even any better than a European social democratic state at its best. I'm not going to care if a state that wasn't a real alternative to begin with collapses. Shilling for it would just make me look like another emotional airhead. Third worldists are pure idealists with no material basis for their beliefs.

So you support fucking over countries in which 70% of their economy is privately owned so they end up with a economy that's 100% privately owned, just out of petty spite? Literally fucking putrid. Anarcunts like you are the worst enemies the working masses of the world have ever had. There will never be a successful leftist movement until anarcunts are completely purged from the working class movement.

It's a lose-lose situation. It's better to simply take the stance of "hands off Venezuela" than "Venezuelan pigs are really comrades."

This, I will not go on a march "in solidarity with Venezuela", I will fight to the death to keep tommies the fuck out of it.

Is this the power of anarkiddie analysis. The protests in Venezuela are literally spearheaded by violent right wing extremists and the opposition parties receive millions of $ from the CIA. Venezuela is still Capitalist but it was being led by soc-dems and the opposition is attempting to reverse the, very real, gains made under Chavismo.

Leftcoms are right again, ☭TANKIE☭s are edgy socdems.

Pecking order.

Why is "critical support for X nation" even something that is discussed?

This comrade has it.


honestly, this

Venezuela is no more than a example of the failure of reformist illusions and you don't have to be an "anarcunt" to realize this. Sure they have done tons of advancement in human and worker's rights but that all is illusory if the machine of the bourgeois state is still up and working, with the bourgeoisie well alive to conspire against their government - that is the very reason their "democratic revolution" has been constantly in danger.

I believe you should go Read a Fucking Book™:

I never made that claim. Venezuela is not socialist.

Under Chavez and Maduro, the lives of the working poor in Venezuela has dramatically improved. The left in Venezuela has achieved objectively more than any Western anarshit/leftcum critics of Venezuela ever have.

Only a literal piece of human shit would say, "this country has done a ton of achievements in human and workers' rights, but FUCK that country because they haven't achieved my childish anarcunt utopian dream society"

I don't think you quite understand the Venezuelan situation. Their economy is capitalist but there is generally revolutionary grassroot potential there. Their government has an agenda that exceeds the usual social democratic talking points. If you want to kill every revolution in its crib because it doesn't go to full communism right away you are an idiot.

Crypto-roses are the worst.

I understand plenty, socdem is much better than neoliberalism as can be evidenced everywhere the transitions had happened. However, trusting socdems or even supporting them is retarded, they will betray the revolution to maintain their capitalism with a human face. By all means oppose US interventionism and imperialism, but do not do so in a way that supports rosa killers, even brown ones who like red.

It's not about SocDem, stop strawmanning so fucking hard, nobody wants a mere social democracy as an end goal. You need to present evidence that Maduro or the Bolivarian movement in general is just a SocDem and wouldn't further their revolution at any point. The new constitution draft implies the opposite as it would include more direct democracy.

Hey, they are fighting Fascists. Granted, this is a losing struggle (SocDem can never defeat Fascism), but that's what is going on.

Also, this.

Better SocDem then Fash.

There is no "but".

You are using the same rhetoric as liberals in Chile-1973: "Allende is not Real Socialist! Lets overthrow his Totalitarian regime!"

Unless there is a better alternative - you'll be supporting rabid Right-wingers. And there is no better alternative. Consequently, every Anarkiddie that sides with the opposition in Venezuela is anti-Socialist. So fuck you, and fuck your Fascist propaganda.

Yes it is, because that is what Venesuela actually is. You don't have to claim that they're socialists to oppose imperialist interventions on them, we should be opposing imperialism regardless of the targets.
In the 18 years since Chavez took power we've seen the nationalization of industry and increased welfare. Impressive as that is the market economy still exists and even makes up most of the economy, as such we can not consider Venesuela socialist. What Maduro wants is irrelevant compared to what he does and is able to do, and what he does is socdem.
Direct democracy isn't socialism any more than co-ops are.

Put your rose back on faggot.

No. But supporting Fascists is.

Put your swastika black flag back on.

Socialism can describe an economic system or a movement which wants to establish said economic system, is it that hard to grasp? Venezuela has a socialist government but a capitalist economy. If you think we can reach full communism in an instant you are an idiot. Nobody thinks that Maduro and Chavez didn't make mistakes, but th Bolivarian Revolution still has the support of the masses.
The strawmen are dished out tremendously today.

god you're such a fucking screeching autist holy shit

Which no one itt has done, at most apathy was expressed. Spit the rose out of your mouth and learn to read.

And we are talking of Venesuela's economy actually is and what Venesuela's government has actually done, which is social democracy.
No one argues that to be the case. What is being argued is that social democracy isn't socialism, that Venesuela won't or can't progress beyond social democracy, and that claiming social democracy is socialism is retarded.
Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn have the support of the masses, with Evo Morales even signaling admiration of the former, that does not make them socialists. When it comes to imperialism it does not matter if Venesuela is socialist, we condemn imperialism regardless of its target's economy. The need to sanctify every target of imperialism as socialist is retarded.
I agree, talk to the tripfag about calling anyone he doesn't like a nazi.

So what? You are missing the whole point of why they are to be supported. Allende as such should not have been supported for being SocDem either.

Yeah. Sure.

How old are you?

Why use a picture of Zizek when he openly defended Chavez and argued that he was a true socialist who tried his best to devolve power to the actual people?

I'm old enough to read, which makes at least one of us.

It's a smug meme I had on hand.

Too late.

Chavismo has improved the lives of working class people and Venezuela is a bulwark against US imperialism in Latin America why would I not support them?

At this point it's more important you learn to read.

I guess, but only in the sense everything else is. Politics is inextricable from aesthetics, we need a materialist critique of it, youre not impressing anyone with a snarky wikipedia tier understanding of marxism

Wheres the sauce about the food hoarding and reactionaries getting outside funding etc

I would be more surprised if it wasnt happening but i need sauce

The one that has no affiliation to Venezuelan government and is privately owned "independent"?