Do ☭TANKIE☭s and M-L's here think Stalin's purges were justified? I'm a M-L but after reading an exchange between Ismail and some Stalinist tripfag on /marx/ I've been convinced that the purges under Stalin were completely retarded (and can't be blamed completely on Yezhov or whoever).
Some good remarks by Ismail criticising "lazy" anti-revisionism >That's why so many "anti-revisionist" analyses of "what went wrong" become ridiculous "Stalin/Mao/Hoxha should have had this person shot, or maybe this person, or maybe these persons."
This is 700 pages my dude. I do want to read Getty sometime in the future, but right now I wanna get some discussion going.
Why do you think Getty's book is important? What are the most important conclusions in it?
Camden Powell
Anti-revision and anti-semitism employ the same logic. "It would've been perfect had the revisionists/jews not infected our party/society," etc. ☭TANKIE☭s are fucking retarded. But even worse, they're intellectually dishonest. muh grover furr stalin dindu nuffing mayn
Ethan Adams
Stalin's purges weren't due to him being an evil cunt, but due to structural reasons of the entire political apparatus, unfavorable historical conditions, and some features in Orthodox Marxism and Bolshevism.
The trotsky- and kulak-paranoia wasn't some cheap cover up story (both had elements of truth to it), or a conspiracy theory pushed for cheap political interests, but the spontaneous ideology of the politburo, that is, how they couldn't notice how the world spontaneously looked for them.
Since people still believed in the revolution from peasants to workers to bureaucrats, almost everybody believed the explanation and the USSR in the late 30's devolved into a crazy witch hunting horror show, Stalin signing execution quotas (x number of traitors/month must be found in area z), ordinary people spying on each other, bureaucrats using this as a chance to get higher on the ladder.
Read the book, you won't regret it.
Brody Hall
Is this supposed to be an argument? I agree with you (that blaming sneaky revisionists isn't a good analysis) but your post is shit and has just made it more likely that this thread will get derailed into another ☭TANKIE☭ vs. anarchist shitfest.
Thanks.
What does this mean? I'm having trouble understanding it (maybe I'm a retard).
Reporting in. What do you want specifically? I am tired of Ismail pretending to be an idiot.
I'd like to point out that it was not response to me (there were two people accusing Ismail of not being Communist).
Which is a very-very nice refutation - of a strawman.
As you should've noticed, my "anti-revisionist" stance: a) does not assume that Stalin alone defined politics - that would be voluntarism (it also contradicts existing evidence) b) does not assume that solution was to shoot more people - in fact, executions of 1937/38 are considered in negative light c) does not assume that every "swing" was blind
Benjamin Foster
Zizek pretends that decisions were based on psychology - rather than objective reality.
Jason White
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Christian Stewart
And nothing of value was lost.
Noah Morales
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Juan Brown
< abandon thread! we can't strawman now! You do that.
Also, what were you doing here in the first place? Didn't you read OP?
Zachary Morales
Stalin's purges were an unfortunate event, that degraded the Soviet Union somewhat.
But they were caused by the situation in the Soviet Union, not by some ill will or mismanagement of Stalin. Lenin's extremely premature departure lived the Soviet Government in turmoil, and in a complete absence of any legal institutions and processes. The only way to regain control and reestablish reliable power structure would be this.
Asher Green
The saddest thing is that anti-Stalin posters do not read history books, for example try "The Search for Soviet Gold", it was well established that there was a Trotskyist sabotage campaign in mining and production, you had saboteurs pouring sand into machinery to break it and the like.
Also it's proven fact that Trotsky had contacts with Nazis like Hess, he promised the Germans and Japanese territory if they invaded the USSR and put him in charge.
Jacob Miller
Until all the Soviet archives are released, it's pointless to speculate.
Hunter Green
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Kayden Murphy
If Sankara purged his enemies or ran an NKDV socialism in Burkino Faso would be preserved and coincidentally you would no longer support him.
Literally just kill yourself idiotic leftcom.
Nicholas Martinez
Stalin didn't sign quotas, he said that you are allowed to commission only this many arrests for execution.
It was a limit.
Elijah Brooks
I am so not a leftcom dude. That I believe some shit that happened in the USSR under Stalin was bad, does not make me a leftcom.
Did I say I don't "support" Stalin? What the fuck does it even mean to "support" a dead leader of a country that doesn't exist anymore?
Wyatt Ortiz
kek, what? He did both. He used the "secret police" (the Burkina Faso Committees for the Defence of the Revolution were based off of the Cuban organizations of the same name) shut down and arrested trade unionists who were not willing to fold into the state union, used it to persecute slave owners, feudalists, right wingers and occasionally anarchists (in the west, there was a big stink about teachers being killed, IIRC, and he was stigmatised as being a Robespierre figure) and formed public militias who continued this trend by executing people deemed reactionary in communally controlled courts. By all accounts, Sankara used revolutionary terror and, through means direct or otherwise, purged his enemies. It may have not been as centralized and secretive an organization as some, but there were definitely organs of revolutionary terror.
Dominic Diaz
Except since parts of the Soviet Archives were opened we have the actual documents and orders signed by Stalin that proves you wrong. See the presentation and context of archive Document 168-169-170 from book related (ch. "The Terror").
You are talking out of your ass, no?
Christopher Carter
Bringing up Burkina Faso in a fit of autistic rage, whilst completely ignoring the existent revolutionary terror and persecution of reactionaries within the country, kind of implies that.
Ryan Evans
Basically all evidence of any real conspiracy can only be found in Furr-tier nonhistory.
Opportunism, careerism and paranoia combined with a calcified state apparatus to create a giant killing machine that nobody really wanted and for which few people can specifically be blamed.
That said, Stalin, if not directly responsible for the atrocity, should still be held accountable for it because it was a natural product of his ultra-doctrinaire tendencies and the isolation implicit in "socialism in one country".
Lucas Thompson
Where's the original with people filtering hoochie
because that's exactly who that retarded trip is, isnt it?
Ian Reed
stop using the Marxhead
Caleb Robinson
There's no "original" I make one every time I encounter a tripherpes.
Angel Richardson
Just so that we are clear: this ass loves to distort bits and pieces of the context.
