I think one of the main reasons that the alt-right impresses so many autists on the web, is that they're very good at playing the internet tough-guy. Not that Leftists can't be very hostile, we can. When we are, however, we still seem to land on the receiving end. This is especially true in communities outside of Holla Forums, but it applies even here.
Usually, we still talk at the person were responding to, maintaining a certain minimum of good faith. The alt-right doesn't do this, they are primarily talking to the audience.
Why does this have to be the case? There's nothing necessarily fascist about being a dick. Marx was a huge dick, it was his whole thing. He was basically an internet shitflinger avant la lettre. Can't we be more like him?
I've been doing it on a bunch of places. Holla Forums, Reddit, Youtube comment sections, stuff like that. It's great fun. These days Neo-Nazis are at least as sensitive as Tumblr snowflakes.
I have a sense that right-wing meme magic is dwindling, we can take it over. It'll be easy.
I don't think that guy needs our ad-revenue, he's already got 100.000 views.
If I wanted to watch some liberal wax about the alt-right, I'd watch Contra. dem production values
I remember online trolling was or is now considerate a mental illness called internet asperger or something like that being agressive onlone will only makes us autistic as them, we need new ways to fight them
Not only that, but they ad-hominem the fuck outta their opponents. They sway the masses of normies by making people who ain't part of their little circle jerk look like purple-haired, obese, problem glasses wearing SJWs while making themselves look like cool, collected, dapper Richard Spencer types. For example:
Facts with a healthy dose of sarcasm should do the trick. The alt-right are natural lolcows just like SJWs. They ain't got a monopoly on facts and they ain't got the moral high ground to talk bout the suppression of "freeze peach" or a facts over feelings approach to issues when you look at just how retarded their conspiracy theory-tier understanding of complicated issues is and the tactics they engage in to deal with people that disagree with them (the mass flagging campaign against Kraut And Tea for challenging The Alternative "Alt-Right Science Man" Hypothesis).
You can break the leftist stereotype just by not acting like that stereotype. Use a lot of non-PC language. Maybe throw in some racial stereotypes, for good measure. They won't be able to fit you into their little pigeonhole.
There are plenty of adhominems we can use back at them. I like calling them "dumb racists." It's great because it frames racism differently from what they're used to. The SJW stereotype is supposed to sink into moralistic outrage. They want you to call them evil, so just call them stupid instead. They're very sensitive to that, with their obsession over Autism Level scores and everything.
I'm usually against ad-hominem attacks, but seeing as how effective it is when the alt-right labels the real left as "triggered libcucks" I think we should throw it back at them. At least our pigeonholing's halfway accurate though cuz we already know that neo-fascists are:
They give us plenty to work with.
Seems like a waste of time. Unless you are put in a situation where you might have to argue underhandedly, like say a debate at a university or public demagoguery, you're not going to do much good by trolling, epic takedowns, etc. You'll just waste your time without achieving anything politically, organizationally, or intellectually. Marx' great contribution were not his witty takedowns - they did nothing to dislodge his targets in established economics academia, for example. If you want to entertain yourself trolling people, enjoy yourself. But don't pretend like it means anything beyond that.
We need to appeal to the middle class teenager demographic?
The alt-right got very successful doing this. What I'm aiming at is a shift in internet culture where neo-Nazis are perceived as pathetic lolcows just as SJWs were. If it catches on, it could have some political implications.
We're on Holla Forums, it's the only demographic we can appeal to.
There's other ways to be fun without being a dick: culture-jamming, coming up with characters, non-sadistic raids etc
Also diplomacy goes farther than you think. Spencer is trying as hard as he can to solve the alt-rights tendency to shit fling instead of be diplomatic to move their movement into the mainstream, gain more female followers etc but the adolescents won't have it.
Sometimes being super abrasive is worthwhile, but only if the people you are acting like a child in front of are exclusively people that 100% will never change their minds, it's not a public forum etc..
We should be careful about what things are worth adopting a and which aren't.
that's because our feminist representatives are fucking insane now and quite frankly deserve a lot of the ridicule they get
Don't forget the fact that overwhelming numbers of these people, especially Holla Forumsyps, are… Ethnically impure. A perfect mirror image of the overwhelming white maleness of SJWs.
Redditors have done more to annihilate the reputation of the far right online than we could ever do by associating neo-nazis with kekistani and rthedonald types
that's their whole act. Now that Le SJW Boogeyman is losing its potence, it only has itself to rely on
One interesting thing that has happened is that the boogeyman has become real. Tumblerinas *have* become politicized broadly. This wasn't necessarily the case in 2011. Back in 2011 I used to think "man what are alt-righters whining about, these are a bunch of teenage girls who aren't really that politically engaged"
Well now they've grown up and moved out of Tumblr
But worst of all they've decided to adopt *every single facet* of character and strategy and belief the alt-right used to ascribe to them. Which was kind of a horror show. The Alinskian strategy of adopting you enemies labels they've taken too far in that they've adopted a nightmare persona, and nightmare beliefs.
And they also try to mirror everything about the alt-right. That's a bad strategy too, simply mirroring everything is a lazy and destructive strategy, because once in a while good people in destructive ideologies will come up with good points or correct analyses. The SJW tactic would be to reject all of those.
how about just being honest and not resorting to acting like a racist retard just because the alt-right feign popularity.
as for acting trollish in general, which is what OP was asking, I think leftoids just need to not take themselves so seriously. some of us need to try to stop being such a bunch of basement dwellers.
I usually hate your posts but this is pretty spot on.
image board posting is mostly theatre so anyone who grew up doing so knows that when you argue with someone the best thing to do is to make them look retarded/angry so the audience will laugh at them along with you. It's not a big thing now but I remember when posting u mad type images used to be top tier trolling people did. I think most people who didn't grow up posting in such an environment are still in the mindset that there is some kind of argument to be won with the other person.
Have you ever heard of adblock?
Here is someone who fundamentally doesn't understand why the right are using South Africa as a recruiting tool. Since the fall of apartheid, you now have members of the white minority living in utter penury. Homeless, struggling to find somewhere to wash and cook penury. That didn't happen to the white minority when they were running the show. The implicit message to anyone investigating these things is that if you support a more equal society it might be you or your children squatting in an abandoned building and sleeping on the street. There's also the fact there's been a rather visible increase in government corruption since the ANC took power.
Yeah, well, people of all kinds are being dicks all over the internet. The relative success of Holla Forums does not come from a different praxis, but from a basic imageboard training.
Surely many people here could easily achieve similar results. I'm not sure what the point would be, but you're free to find out.
Isn't South Africa mainly used as an example that when whites are in charge, the whole nation prospered including the oppressed blacks ie white man's burdon and that by implication black people aren't capable of taking care of themselves and white people ought not cater to or emancipate minorities for the betterment of society.
It sanitises their racism as they try to dress it up as benevolence and for the greater good. Or as they disengenuously put it "reals over feels".
That's part of the reason why I mentioned the corruption but that argument is applied to Africa generally. Just look at Zimbabwe and you can see they could equally make those claims of economic mismanagement in that case. South Africa seems unusual in that there are members of the white working classes who had comfortable enough existences as, say, welders who are now living on the street.
Cry me a river, nigger. They weren't saying shit when their 10% share of the population was shutting down missionary schools which gave blacks an education above learning how to be domestic servants for whites and gold miners for multinational corporations (The Bantu Education Act) and they sure as shit didn't care when The C.O.G. (Caucasian Occupied Government) was shooting people dead for protesting that unequal fuckery so they can either A) deal with it B) move to Australia, The Netherland, Britain or wherever half of them went after Apartheid was struck down or C) go fuck themselves.
If you live your whole life privileged equality's gonna feel like oppression.
It's also total bullshit. The GDP of South Africa's went up by like 300% since Apartheid ended. Zuma's a selfish fuckwit though. He's singlehandedly wrecking the country with his corruption and scapegoating white people to cover his tracks which to be fair is racist.
baboons have to go back to the zoos
See that, comrades? It's *this* kind of far-right, non-argument autism we've gotta zero in on and amplify to show the true lolcow face of the alt-right that they hide under that facts>feels facade.
Stop ban-evading you autist.
monkey man says what? want a banana?
Here's camera footage of the people in question. Have fun crying bullshit and validating alt-right talking points, Afroplasm. Shame, you usually make good posts.
This is a good thing, we speak to people not to spooks. Speaking to spooks about spooks opens you up way more to being deligitimized since someone is always going to be able to find the exception to the rule that appeals to the listeners prejudices.
Who cares the alt right is on the decline. I think stuff like MGTOW is going to be more of a problem in the future.
Why MGTOW? Are they even growing?
Oh yeah they're growing, and their identity politics is way more inclusive along with rejecting all of the theory that Nazis got themselves in trouble with like they’re slavish adherence to cultish nationalism
Isn't MGTOW something that will vanish, like the 19th-century Shaking Quakers, for biological reasons? Along with the rest of the proletariat, as alienation reaches the point of voluntary extinction.
Why is that going to be a problem?
The problem with this strategy is that it's best at recruiting worthless edgelord losers who will never accomplish anything. Yes Holla Forums has numbers but they're 80% bots and 19% 10 year olds.
Holla Forums is already trying to radicalise them.
I mean maybe, but it’s spreading to Generation Z. Which really surprises me, because I’ve been following MGTOW since the early 2000s and it always consisted of mid aged boomers angry about being divorced. MGTOW is much more grounded in reality than Nazis every were. It very much promotes a Stirner like philosophy of just looking after your own best interest. The issues regarding divorce, men’s issues, sexual assault laws are legitimate. I know you all leftists are just gonna laugh at it but I think you do so at your own peril. There’s been an entire generation that grew up under the liberalized feminists marriage and divorces laws. And a significant minority of these children are grown up and angry.
From what i see MGTOW is successfully defeating this effort. I see lots of ridicule of pols insistence on “muh white babies”. Lots of ridicule of the state, since they’re the ones that enforce the laws.
What The Fuck www.hooktube.com/watch?v=4xGawJIseNY Get your Anita apologists the fuck outta here.
MRAs have valid points, obviously. But MGTOW is one bridge too far. It's the sexual equivalent of breatharianism: "Oh, working for porky in exchange for food is such a drag, if only there was some other way… Wait, I know! I'LL JUST STOP EATING FOOD!".
Is this OC?
That’s not analogous, you won’t die without female sex and companionship. In the same way female she would “friend zone” a guy and still get emotional support and fulfillment there’s a trend where young men just form these intimate emotional bonds between each other “bromance” and just masterbait for sexually fulfillment. Just an anecdote but a pretty popular normie site girlsaskguys.com MGTOW topics pop up a couple times a month.
Obviously, but it's not sustainable for more than a generation. That's what makes it such a blackpill.
Sustainable for whom?
It’s sustainable if it continually spreads to new younger generations, which it seems like it’s doing with Gen Z. Like I said I’ve been following MGTOW since early 2000s and it was pretty fringe even amount PUA/MRA until recently. I really think it has staying power because men are super alienated from sex and sexuality so disengaging from it altogether isn’t such a stretch. And there really are stupid amounts of disincentives to getting married and dating.
It's unsustainable for population and capitalism. Less suckers born every minute to consume garbage, not that it's a bad thing.
I ran into it on /r9k/. Not sure how old it is. Seems fairly recent and cringey though.
Again, why do I care? South Africa's officially a third world country. It wouldn't be normal if at least a minority of whites would live like the majority of blacks given the country they live in.
Do you have the percentage of white people in townships compared to their percentage of the general population? Otherwise I call bullshit on that.
This isn’t the Victorian era anymore, capitalism doesn’t need endless hordes of proles. MGTOW is completely compatible with capitalism at current population levels.
I'm sure the current pop media fiasco around hashtagmetoo is minting new MGTOW (even if they've never heard of the dumb acronym) at unprecedented rates too. I've been seeing a lot of young men I'm acquainted with - who never showed any signs of being interested in gender politics beyond "feminsm" (I like, think equality is, like, good???) - now talking about feeling like they have to follow "the mike pence rule" or similar and simply never be alone with any woman who isn't their girlfriend/wife or blood relative and, in some cases, taking steps to actively minimise their interactions with women in general. And these are not imageboard misogynerds or pimply fatties who are unpopular with women, these are normal middle-class, middle-of-the-road dudes with gym memberships that they actually use and decent prospects.
it remains to be seen whether this shit around sexual abuse allegations constitutes the new normal or just a short-lived media sideshow. If it's the latter, most of these dudes will forget about this within a year. If it's the former, then there are interesting times ahead.
Interesting, I’m in my 30s so kinda outta the loop with what’s going on with young men besides from what I glen from the internet. I think it will have staying power. Diminishing yourself under capitalism nets you huge returns, and there’s nothing more expensive than dating for a young man. I think once all these young guys get a taste of being propertied and the power of compound interest they’re not coming back. Interesting times indeed. It will be a complete reversal of the feminist culture we live in now.
I keep hearing that guys are following the Pense rule, just assumed it was hyperbole, it’s interesting that you say eliegable bachors are talking about following it now. I think that by itself is a sea change.
Im actually really good at being a dick because I’m an old fag whose nearly 30. I’ve argued people into submission, but never been able to convince anyone so far through pure aggression as of yet. Only people worth talking are the ones who are already receptive, from what I’ve seen. Everyone else is out to score le internet debate points
why not both?
My preferred tactics are to use facts with the added bonus of ad hominem attacks.
It's crass, but effective at seizing the high ground.
example: "Stalin increased the GDP of the USSR between 1945 to 1950, you dumb fucking faggots".
I agree, so much for the better I'd say
Which is Holla Forums's entire argument against a more egalitarian society, you silly sausage. As I said, have fun validating their talking points.
So, presented with video evidence of the problem you cry bullshit? The issue is not that scale of this occurence, it is that it has happened at all.
Meme wars are fucking retarded and its not in our best interest to engage in them. We should be active in our communities and be living representations that far leftists aren't crazy people but rather quite normal. The everyday man has very leftist tendencies because the everyday man believes in the common good and in the idea of people coming together to help each other. The best activism we can do is not online but through our day to day lives.
Why do they even call it a meme war? It was just picking on liberals, they never attack the radleft
why is being a douche considered impressive? what kind of basic instinct does it appeal to?
When you limit a man to being anything that isn't emotional, caring or kind, all that is left is being a dick. Kids believe thqat manlines is synonymous with being a dick, self-caring, cold hearted etc. The left believes a strong man is one that cares for others well being, for the lesser and the weak. Sankara is an example of a leftist manly man. This doesn't ring well with the right since it's exactly everything they believe makes a man "weak"
arent they usually bombarded with powerful role models of people who generally act just? heroes?
ill acknowledge that its easier to get ahead in life by being willing to step on toes which is pretty horrible, but when did this become a celebrated thing?
I cyberbully Barg on reddit.
Strong men being epitome of manliness have been engrained into our culture for centuries now. Though self-serving men really kicked of with Nietszche and his philosophy of master mentality and slave mentality. He believed that suffering brings character, that physical strength is shown through violence and that übermensch are the ones who make people serve him through manipulating society. This echos strongly with the popularity of people like the golden one, who sing the same song, just with a more mordern twist (especially through nazi ideology) Nietszche was a next level reactionary, and his ideas didn't stray far from social darwinism and "survival of the strongest"
Because it's just unnecessary and ineffective. I have long discovered that showing someone they're wrong (i.e. making an effective argument of tier 6 or higher on Graham's disagreement hierarchy) is more infuriating than any kind of direct insult would be. Once you're at that point, adding lesser rhetorical devices will just allow your adversaries to divert attention by concentrating on them rather than the message you're trying to get across.
As a general rule, winning a shouting contest by being polite is the most condescending thing you can do.
You'll note that those heroes, "powerful role models of people who generally act just", never shy away from a fight against violence, aggression and injustice.
You are making a really basic mistake by assuming that intentions of an actor are the same as your perception of his action. Everyone is a hero in their own head, and assuming that anyone holds "being a douche" as a terminal value is just silly.
(Note: if you read the above and thought "so they're douches who delude themselves into being heroes, unlike me" rather than "we need a game theoretic solution to this universal problem of human cognition", chances are you're one of the douches.)
Tfw speaking for equal human right for Palestinians against Zionist aggression only to realize they don't wont peace but land.
Varg is a good boy leave him alone
oh blow it out your ass, violence is almost always a last resort for these heroes. not everyone is popeye.
That's just bad tactics. I try to avoid insults inless someone is being rude or persistently repetative to ignore points where I am clearly defeating their arguments. I make them look stupid with their actions not my words alone. When I do insult I try to be whitty about it so they dontw understand how bad I got them but everyone else does.
what am i even saying? even popeye doesnt just go around bullying people
The decision whether all other, peaceful options are exhausted is based on an individual's subjective assessment, which brings us right back to
And to go back to object level, I'm not sure you realize how frustratingly impossible polite discussion on a modern internet is.
that seems like such a ridiculous stance to take though. you can only take the high road for so long before youre just hurting yourself. injustice would be letting people get hurt just because you might inconvenience a bully.
furthermore i dont think its fair to equate defending yourself or your loved ones from physical threats to being a jerk for no reason and having people stroke your ego over it. where do you get off dude?