Bitcoin is Accelerationism

Whole cryptocurrency fad is the best satire of free markets to have been ever made. It's literally a bunch of smartasses herding self-hyping brainlet hordes over the edge.

free market magic

hate this stupid meme
a deflationary currency benefits those who hold currency. as a general rule, normal people don't hold that much currency. you know who has lots of currency? porky.

parasite off the real economy mostly

I would be surprised if they actually knew what they are doing. Their rules are based on trends, it has no real predictive power. There could be an outlier. Especially when it comes to something as vague as Bitcoin.

Traders literally caused the financial melt down by breaking the rules and blowing up bubbles. Not a great comparison if you want to make Bitcoin look stable

It's as popular as it is because American betting is heavily regulated. CFDs are illegal in the US because of the government wanting control and taking money out of the real stock market with a parallel market. Sports betting exchanges like betfair are illegal. Bitcoin offers a chance to bet unregulated then all the libertarian shits who jumped on early have realised they can make quick profit hyping up meme coin to normies as 'new technology'

Not really, that was the big financial organizations using the rules to create larger profit margins

that sure changes a lot

buy a trend, sell if it is too high, buy back lower, if trend breaks you sell. At worst you lose a small amount of money. My point is it's not risky to do this (and fairly easy).

if you have a conscience you don't short stocks.
I'm also not defending the way the world works, i'm not a capitalist.

we still are yet to see what happens to bitcoin's valuation during a financial crisis. I'm no expert, but currently bitcoin is more popular in Venezuela and Zimbabwe due to their financial issues.

Why dont you just sell while its high and retire forever? It just seems like an exercise in greed at this point, cause what if it crashes soon?

I sold all at 17150 (which happened to be the top) because pic related happen.
I am more of a pattern trader than a long term investor.
though I am waiting for re-entry at around $10k hopefully

I wish you people would stop rapidly driving up the currency so we could have a stable platform for anonymous blackmarkets, moneylaundering and ransomware like god intended.

So this is the power of Bitcoin?

bitcoin won't stablize until ~2050 if this chart is correct

delet this

Bitcoin's staggering energy costs just make it seem extremely useless as a store of value. The fact that people are buying it for purely speculative purposes means that it is bound for a huge market correction. The longer this jump in price continues, the worse the crash will be.

That being said, I will buy bitcoin or some other crypto once the market correction comes.

Talk me out of it. The guy is a petty bourgeoisie programmer and doesn't need the money.

Use a coin tumbler or they'll be able to track your transactions.

i hope you mean short term correction. This is definitely not the bubble top

start mining yourself with his advice

do it

Whats the highest you think BTC will go to?

i've been trying to study the past charts recently. The bubble crash in 2013 happened because of an exchange hack, followed by months of US regulators making it close to impossible for westerners to buy bitcoin.
The price action towards the end of the bubble was like bitcoin going 10x in a few months, rather than a year like we've seen before.
Currently we're following a parabolic pattern that is similar to 2013, if we see price movement like before I think it is time to scale your position down to prevent losing it.
China banned bitcoin trading in september and it's still going up, chinese people can still trade but it's more difficult. A crash would only happen if bitcoin was close to impossible to buy.

I don't have a "highest" prediction, I think it's impossible to predict that. Check the price on the log scale and realize that it will probably correct to the line at some point (note this chart is older than and is higher in value)

How is this any different than tuplips, other than on a massively global, decentralized scale?

tulip bubble lasted a few weeks and are a perishable, useless object.
cryptocurrency is a "be your own bank" system that will eventually see global adoption where you can pay with your phone (long term)

the tulip argument is used by bankers who will lose their jobs over this to scare newbies who don't understand technology and economics.

There are a lot of studies that actually show a perplexing validity to SOME trading rules. They tend to make higher profits in some markets, usually ones considered more "inefficient" than others. Bundled into that is markets with lots of emotions, young markets, stuff like that.

Petty bourg morons are going to get a huge wake up as this stuff goes more and more mainstream.

Venezuela and Zimbabwe are special cases. In a regular, first-world financial crisis deflation is a much bigger concern because then you exacerbate the tendency to reduce consumption, leading to a vicious cycle of unemployment, reduced consumption, further unemployment, and so on.

if you think a deflationary currency is a good thing you don't understand economics tbh.
money creation for productive purposes (rather than tied to arbitrary scarcity) is a good thing for meeting our social and economic policy ends.

although in fairness reading btc as a currency is probably in itself economically shonky, it's more like a particularly bizarre commodity or share.

If they did it would be more widely used, but I imagine it would be illegal in the actual form of a currency. Banks can't create currency anymore, can they?

Bankers won't lose their jobs because crypto is always going to be redeemable as dollars. At best they'll just start handling the accounting of crypto-dollar exchange for people's accounts. Visa might go out of business. Though crypto will find its fruition as a crypto that is highly liquid and easily translatable to dollars, like USDT but probably different because I don't know how USDT techinically functions aside from "it's backed 1-1 by dollars".

Why are soc dems inflation hawks? How does your paycheck being worth less help the working class?

I would assume that they prefer inflation to deflation because it doesn't necessarily constrict government spending.

they will have their own crypto and they will be the only ones making good money off of it.
We've seen huge distrust in the banking system and more people will hopefully stop using it

US traders are buying bitcoin as a hedge against a potential financial crisis which would cause hyperinflation, no one is currently using it to buy things. Obviously a small inflation percent in fiat currency is good for consumer spending and the economy but hyperinflation would be terrible

Deflation is bad, too much inflation is bad as well. But crypto's whole goal of removing the state's sovereignty over money through having a fixed supply, deflationary currency is the most shoot ourselves in the head libertarian aspect of it.

Theoretically, our current monetary system is the best possible system that has existed for creating an economy that works for us. We just have the ideological and political problem of how to harness that. If you peg currency to some deflationary commodity like bitcoin, we will be ceding even more power to big money and basically guaranteeing the NECESSITY of austerity. It's almost (almost) the equivalent of a country like greece adopting the Euro and then being in debt to Brussels. They don't control their own currency, they have to acquire euros in order to pay their debts. That is going to happen to our state if we forced it to accept bitcoin as redeemable for taxes, which would render it basically under the power of whatever financial interests own the most bitcoins.

In normal times wage increases outpace inflation increases.
How does the real value of debt constantly increasing help the working class?
How does Porky being able to make good profits by simply sitting on his piles of money benefit anyone but Porky?

The people who benefit from the real value of money increasing for no effort are - painfully obvious to say - the people who have money - and unless I've missed something dramatic, that isn't the working class.

also this tbh

Hope when you say traders you mean private sector nutcases.
Hyperinflation as a general trend only occurs in the presence of an obvious external shock. Unless the next financial crisis is caused by global warming obliterating half of the United States, I think we can safely say it isn't coming.
(Though a dose of the ol' hyperinflation would be one way to clear away our strangling levels of private sector debt.)

So in short, if you want to not have your entire country be a butt slave to the biggest porkies in the world, you should really fight the notion that bitcoin frees us from banks or anything like that. It does the exact opposite, the libertarians are right in some ways that it is a step towards the cyberpunk dystopia where we live in a nearly stateless, mega corp society.

bitcoin is inflationary though
charts.bitcoin.com/chart/inflation

the crypto nuts I follow are saying the next crisis will be due to public and private pension funds failing due to an aging population. I'm no expert on this though

So crypto or rare metals?

I'm not sure exactly what this is measuring. Increase in the supply of bitcoins?
In terms of actual meaningful value (i.e. for simplicity's sake USD) bitcoin has been increasing in value over time and (I assume) prices denominated in BTC have been falling to match.

Don't think that'd be a shock big enough to cause hyperinflation tbh. Would seem more like the sort of normal-bizarre crisis you get under capitalism (i.e. savings and loans crisis, dot com bubble, global financial crisis.)
It's more like war, natural disaster, coups, sudden drop in the price of major exports, etc that I'm thinking of.

What is that chart measuring, I don't believe it. The only things bitcoin is used to buy right now is small shit off of platforms like openbazaar, some companies that accept bitpay like Newegg or Microsoft (if they still do) etc. so there is barely a bag of commodities to check its price level against, and the only thing we can say is that those commodities are bought by dollars normally and bitcoin has dramatically grown in dollar value, so it has to have grown in value against everything bought by it only a month ago.

But other than that, the inflation deflation wasn't the primary point of my post. It was that if you make bitcoin the currency that a state accepts for its tax liabilities, that state is very very likely going to start accepting crypto currency debts. Those debts require payment in crypto to banks, which will make our government essentially in the problem eurozone countries find themselves in now, except not to a sovereign state entity like the EU, but rather private banks. As it is, our debts are in dollars, which we can print as we please. That means the US is in no danger of default.

That seems like it would just cause a normal financial crises. Hyperinflation is historically caused by some event which destroys a supply base. In Zimbabwe it was the farms being destroyed, so food was scarce, which caused prices to skyrocket. In America in the 70s, oil was scarce and we had stagflation.

Bitcoin as an example of the exciting blockchain technology has positives and negatives like anything else.

It's great that governments can't control it and take it from you easily, but they could theoretically limit the supply by buying up coins.

It doesn't require an ID or birth certificate like a bank account, but it's not totally anonymous.

It relies on electricity to use, both to transact and for the mining process. I doubt it will be a stable option in the case of predicted energy crises like oil shortages. No power, no bitcoin.

Block size limits the number of transactions, though bitcoin cash is supposed to solve this.

Other than that, I haven't seen anything to indicate that bitcoin is separate from the normal economy. Right now bitcoin looks like a bubble, so it's likely to follow the trend that other bubbles have followed. No one has explained why it wouldn't, only that they believe in the technology. I think the drawbacks should be a sign to get out before it pops, or before the lights go off and you can't use the technology anymore.

You can throw Venezuela and the oil price for them, but also their dumb policies causing supply shock in their economy as well.

isn't proof of stake happening?

Isn't bitcoin proof of work?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-work_system

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof-of-stake

i mean in the future

Can you link a source on that?

We should all support bitcoin, it is undermining the monopoly on capital porkies have.

It's not, unless you are implying the switcharoo of which porkies have all of the capital. If BTC succeeded, it would just mean new mega porkies.

Bitcoin is useful, but you shouldn't invest too much into it. It has plenty of flaws

Let me just ask:

What's gonna prevent a deflating fiat currency from simply crashing once the bar of entry becomes too high and consumers realize
it's got no basis in material realtity, ala what happened in the south seas crisis or the dutch tulip crisis?

wow interesting

you know that you can buy fractions of a bitcoin right?
also see
I like to imagine it like this:
imagine a new bank opened in a small town where people were being robbed of the money they stored in their houses. The bank could provide 90% security but was not insured. The rate at which people joined the bank would resemble a curve which grew fast initially top the point where everyone in the town had a bank account.

Now replace the banks amount of account owners against time, with the price or bitcoin/usd against time.
maybe in 100 years everyone will own cryptocurrency and it will be the world standard (absolute best case scenario)

In the short term people are just trading an unregulated asset against the dollar, it's basically like trading the S&P at 100x leverage

Out witch

Even fraction-buying does not deal with the "problem of thrift" that comes with deflation. Considering how dangerous economic deflation is, what's prevent people to hoard bitcoin and never actually spend them in an economy? What's to prevent the problem of early investors becoming enourmously wealthy by simply holding on to the currency compared to those who have to spend what little they have earned to survive? If nothing, how would bitcoin ever be able to function as a primary currency? If not, when what value does it have beyond being a simple investment commodity, the classic subject of a bubble economy?

see
i'm no expert on inflation, but all I will say is mining will increase the supply of bitcoin until around 2100. That's plenty of time for the currency to be used as is.
Also I suggest this wiki:
en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral
and the bitcoin whitepaper:
bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
as you seem interested

Bitcoin will never be a primary currency, only the true believer idiots think that. As an asset it's not going away because it's a way to hide wealth and there's profit to be made hyping rumors like amazon accepting it

But mining is completely independent on the parrallel speculation economy. Sure, an influx of more bitcoin may help the deflation, but there is no mechanism to ensure that the mining of bitcoin in anyway follows the increased demand of it being a speculation-commodity. In other words, it will take a whole lot more than this to convince me that bitcoin can do what in economics is the equal of parting the red sea, and not either be invalid as a primary currency or collapse as a consequence of deflation.

And I have no idea how they reached the conclusion that they're inflationary, when all other charts show that the price per unit is rising. That makes no sense to me.

Do you know about altcoins?
You can make a copy of bitcoin and do anything you want with it. For example there are coins that have unlimited supply, low fees, with almost instant transaction time.
Basically they can be designed to be used as a a currency. Bitcoin is a closer to gold than cash anyway

From who? If the political will is there, the government will know how much of your money has gone into bitcoin. At least, unless you are a billionaire that already has the means to hide your money in overseas accounts, but those people are already shadow money. Random assholes get their bank to wire money to GDAX, which is a company that can be audited.

I've got a few questions I hope to get answered.

hypothetically In the case of an economic crisis in the u.s.a, if large amounts of the population buy bitcoin to store their wealth, will that devaluate the already weak dollar?

In the case that people trading the dollars for bitcoins, what stops the United states government from banning all trading of bitcoins in the dollar?

I could be completely wrong in my thought process, but this question has been on my mind recently.

Next to bitcoin, sure. But that wouldn't really mean anything unless people bought shit in bitcoin and its price had stabilized. Otherwise, everything is losing value next to bitcoin.

Nothing, except maybe moving a website overseas or something. But they could ban US banks from doing transactions with companies that do btc/usd exchange.

No this is wrong. Yes the ledger is publicly available but you can create as many wallets as you want, as if you take the correct precautions you can stop most govs ability to trace it to you. Porkies don’t use bitcoin to hide their wealth because of its instability. And tax havens are getting torn down more and more. The recent run up most certainly proves that porkies are diversifying into bitcoin at least a bit.

thank you. I was just wondering why none of the bitcoin shills explain that the future of bitcoin is determined by central banks of countries letting people buy bitcoins using their currencies.

If crypto ever replaced actual money, it would have to derive its power from other currencies.

I wasn't talking about the ledger tho, I just mean what is put into bitcoin and taken out. As in the government knows your money is likely in a domestic bank, that's the majority of people here, and it can pretty easily know what companies do the most volume for bitcoin exchange. So if your bank has records of transactions with those exchanges, then the IRS can assume you've done some transactions in bitcoins. The same goes for any business that deals in bitcoins. If they know this much and it bothers them, they can audit you. If you try to hide transaction history from them and this is clear from gaps in your cash, they'll just fine you or charge you the highest tax rate to be sure you aren't holding out on them.

How do you plan on doing that? Not that I plan on doing the same or anything

user…

Depends. Until they come up with a crypto that's a straight upgrade from paper currency, all cryptocurrencies will be bubbles with long life spans. Rare metals are always a gamble because capitalism. I'd say cryptos are far safer, so long as you pick a popular one. Now with buttcoin's kinda-success, there's a glut of new cryptocurrencies, and few of them will be popular enough to become a bubble. I guess you can say there's a meta-bubble of cryptos.

PROTIP anyone worrying about pension funds/social security deficits and about how they need to pay for themselves or they will end up crashing? They're either neoliberal shills or cucks who fell for neoliberal shills.

So in order to control their own economy, a country's government has to pay a ransom? How the fuck hasn't Porky thought of this before?

There's also the tiny little drawback of massive electricity waste, which is more than a bit worrying given climate change. Not to mention that even if the environment wasn't a concern, buttcoin still acts as an electricity sink, pushing the power's price upwards. And every single Joule gets turned into waste heat in processor farms.

I don't know nearly enough of economy or cryptography to know if it's possible to have a cryptocurrency that runs on a sane and sustainable generation process.

bitcoin is basically gambling blockchain edition

What is the chance of crypto's getting delegalised completely?

Depends entirely on how much control the governments and/or oligarchs will have over the internet. But due to the internet's physical structure being a hodge-podge of half a century of rapidly-changing technology, it's probably impossible to stop them completely.

Very slim. Big players are getting into it now and they are the ones who write the laws.

unless you can stomp on the laws of thermodynamics to keep making fedora bucks this is all bullshit desu, it is funny that a free market scheme ended supporting FRoP in digital setting.

we're over 10k already user, and it's 2017 still… it doesn't seem to be following that pattern all that well…

youtube.com/watch?v=nAT-c2bflTI
it's overvalued

The Bitcoin bubble is being intentionally inflated by the powers that be to get nerds and crypto-anarchists to put their savings into Bitcoin. Then they will intentionally pop it, causing nerds and crypto-anarchists to go broke.

pretty simple worldview you have there

The cost has doubled since then. If you did the opposite of what the video says, you'd be a rich man.
Bitcoin is tulip mania, yes, but a lot of people got disgustingly rich from tulip mania.

Eh. Its more fun gambling on tech penny stocks

Maybe we should all start to trade stocks and fund leftist movements with it.

...

if it were that easy…

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It's just a bubble, user. If you want to be the bourgeoisie you'll have to buy productive assets (stocks/bonds/land) with those Bitcoins.

Hold mostly other cryptos do have 10k in the stock market.
Am i liable to get killed in the revolution?

Depends on which side of the barricade you stand.
Friedrich Engels' family was one of factory owners. It's how he made his buck.
Proudhon even tried to start his own bank IIRC. He's a mutualist tho so it'd def be dif.

If your guys are coming for my money directly then no.
Structural gradual changes first towards socialism is something i would be more okay with as it will give me the time to spend all of my money.

...

Not if you're fighting on our side.

Can't i hire people to fight for me in the revolution?

Why don't you buy supplies instead.

But supplies arent loyal to me like mercenaries.

Buy a farm and fuck off.

Well your hired servants won't be either, come Revolution, Porky!

Supposedly some of the newer gen ones like IOTA do, but I don't personally have the knowledge to evaluate that.

fucking kill yourself

Fucking do it.