Whenever you bring up Nazi war crimes the people defending the Nazis will always say: "B-But the Soviets did worse." I'm sick of seeing this propaganda.
Gulags were corrective labour camps and used criminals for work. Nazi death camps were used as tools of genocide for Hitler's well documented 'Finale Solution". The Nazis raped millions in Eastern Europe, it's estimated around 12 to 15 million were raped and then killed. "Peoples Commissar of Foreign Affairs of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, by this note declares, that Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is accepting the convention about improving life of the prisoners of war, wounded, and sick in the acting armies, signed in Geneva on June 27th 1929. In order to verify it Peoples Commissar of Foreign Affairs of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, who has all the necessary mandates and powers, signed this declaration of accepting. In accordance with a decision of Central Executive Committee of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics from May 12th 1930, this acceptance is final and does not need any further ratifications. Done in Moscow on August 25 1930. Signed : Litvinov." The Nazis wanted to kill all Slavic people in Europe. Mein Kampf explains that: Czechs, Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, Serbs, Croats, and all of the Slavic people in Europe should be exterminated. Thats over 360 million people.
I'm not defending the crimes of the Soviet Union. But seeing people side with the Nazis because of some propaganda they read about the Soviets is just denying history. Please add more Nazi strawman arguments and defence against them.
Lol so? The Soviet's version of concentration camps and rape were far more expansive than the Nazis
The majority of gulag internees exited alive, so what you said is completely false. Are you also going to parrot "da 50 gorillion" even though the historians who claimed it backed down when further evidence came out, around the fall of the wall?
Did you really ignore OP's whole post? Germans committed atrocities on the Eastern Front on a scale that dwarfed soviet crimes
If you have a problem with gulags you should have a problem with prisons in the usa. Both are filled with people who is better off somewhere else and is there to perform menial labor. the biggest difference is that gulags were outdoors.
are we in this point in history? were we casually mention genocides?
Anyone who tries to deflect Nazi crimes is a fascist sympathizer, no question about it. The same applies to Stalinists. Whataboutism is probably the ultimate tactic of authoritarians.
No. The death toll was 31 million white people and there was plans to kill some 20% of the world's white population.
The modus operandi was the opposite of each other.
The nazis decided whom to kill and then found out who should be killed.
The commies issued quotas and then it was up to the killers to decide.
The nazi killing was by intent. The commie killing was by sloppiness. However, almost all vietnamese in Camboida was killed. How strange…
Nazi germany just gassed systematically 6 million jews in industrial fashion so 100 billion people dying from shortage of food is much worse.
No, the difference is that, in the US, if you are accused of being a counter-revolutionary, due process exists to protect your rights as an American citizen. There are prisons in the US have outdoor portions, so you'll have to be specific. But you aren't tossed in jail because of mock trials initiated to silence political opposition. I can talk as much shit as I want to about what laws I disagree with or what politician I hate, you couldn't do that under Stalinist USSR.
The Nazi flag is quite aesthetic tbh
The Espionage Act is unconstitutional, there are no two ways about that. But that does not mean that due process does not exist in the US, or that a perversion of the constitution makes all other examples to the contrary (of such repression of speech) irrelevant. You are creating a false dichotomy where you are either absolutely virtuous when it comes to valuing due process, or you aren't. There is a middle ground, and the USSR under Stalin was far worse. That doesn't mean the US was innocent, but its transgressions against its own constitution pale in comparison to the crusades against the counter-revolutionary under Stalin.
No one sides with the Nazis. Anyone with a brain can tell the difference between a deliberate industrial grade genocide around an entire ethnic group and accidental consequences of policies that did not have the explicit intent/targeting of ethnic groups from day 1.
Except there was a clear motivation against the kulaks. The rhetoric against the group, as a class of people, certainly existed. There is certainly doubt to be cast on the estimations, but there was clear intention. The 'Committees of Poor Peasants' was set up and one of the aims was grain confiscation; I don't see how that isn't an intention.
Based on behaviors rather than ethnicity. One was controllable, the other not. Fucked up? Sure. Not exactly the same though.
But that's not what I said, he said there was no intention, I said that there very clearly was. Also, are you suggesting that it's somehow better to target class with oppressive state-mandated laws instead of race? I think both are quite bad. Also, how can a kid born into wealth control his status as wealthy? It's like saying you can control your status as a car-owner. Sure, technically that is true because the government can steal it: that's the entire point I'm making with regards to intentions, that's still not exactly 'good'. We agree that it's fucked up, but I'm not comparing it to race-based oppression, either.
Ok of course so the American government does whatever horrible unconstitutional shit they deem necessary to quell dissent and then several decades later it's horrible and unconstutional in hindsight. How convenient.
No, I'm saying pointing out that idiotic accusations of being 'counter-revolutionary' are bad when the Soviets do it AND when the Americans do it. Pointing out how the Soviets were far worse doesn't excuse the Americans. If I walk up to you and hit you in the face, I don't get off clean because you are a rapist, for example. What I did is still criminal. Also, both cases are being examined in retrospect. Pretty sure some of the people at the time also agreed that it was unconstitutional or 'unfair', both in the USSR and in the US. By the way, I'm not in the US, so I don't know how their unfair precedents have any say on 'me'.
Shameful self bump…
OP ultimately it really doesn't matter because the "victims" of Communism deserved it.
Then come with accurate numbers comparing both nations during war time.
Not that I believe that it'll take away your frustration, people will believe what they want to believe and you honestly should not care.
It's been a staple of the crypto-nazi right since the 60s-70s. It's not going away despite being repeatedly debunked.
You're just being delusional
Ignoring the great work of our comrads because of your morality hickups is just sad.
Danm straight we killed more people than hitler and you should be proud!