I'm in the process of trying to Unionize sex workers (in Murrica) and get them involved as an influence bloc in the 2018 election process. Do you have any resources or know-how that you could point me to? I'm starting with local chapters, forming a third-party PAC, and will consult with a lawyer about handling those donations soon.
Unionizing Sex Workers
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Is this the poster I think it is?
How can you unionize something that is not even legal?
yeah good luck, at least have a step one and model it after European laws or something.
Not all sex work is illegal, and escorting is only illegal if they can prove that you're having sex with your clients, otherwise it's all lawful.
The idea is that we'd lobby for decriminalization first so that we could unionize more openly, then push for full legalization at a later date.
A good argument for legalizing sex work is it allows the criminal and abusive aspects of it to be countered by unionization and workers rights.
But unions and sex work has to be pushed by force in order to work.
Despite what most of you might think, a lot of sex workers are far left, and actually good people. They know how labor power works more than most. We shouldn't shit on them for having the job they do, a significant chunk are legitimate comrades. Pic related.
Well you're off to a bad start trying to unionize in America, right to work will likely bury you. A non-union organization could be effective, but there's still the legal hurdles and question of capital. I think there's a couple of examples in the porn industry with IEAU for a union and APAC for an "advocacy organization", I guess looking into them could help. The only other advice I'd say works is starting a co-op, but that could bump you from a misdemanor to a felony.
i support this but ironically right-libertarians would be the most likely political group with any power at all to get behind this.
I was thinking this too. Also almost all sex workers here are independent, they're small businesses almost. Even the ones on escort agencies aren't employees, they just pay a fee for exposure on the website and verification that they aren't law enforcement.
I'm not saying this to hate on sex workers. I have sex worker friends
no need to sweat, leftypol is down with bitches n hoes
Hes right become a terror cell
Stop. They are lumpenproletarians and therefore counterrevolutionary. Read Marx ffs.
Unironically most Sex Workers I know in SoCal are some of the class conscious people I've ever met. These people read Marx, they even fucking read Foucault. Not saying that it's impressive, but they're read and they understand their positions in life.
They not only have a physical understanding of poverty, but how labor operates. I'm afraid leftypol might dismiss them as being whores and sluts but they have radical potential more than most.
I'm not going to stop.
Isn’t prostution banned in America?
i'm down for "idpol" of this sort, i don't think this is what leftypol dislikes about it but I could be naive.
Yes but they find ways around. Example: they call themselves "escorts" and have you pay a "donation" or a "voluntary gift" for thier time. You only pay for thier time and whatever happens happens.
Escort friend tells me that she has been framed by cops several times, but the cases have been thrown out because they couldn't prove she was selling sex
I think you should start unionizing the porn industry and strip clubs before full on prostution Because jail in America isn’t fun.
Yes, and it's a problem. But it also helps radicalize these people. Most people put in dangerous legal positions in America are far left leaning just like most of us here because they understand the factors at play.
I actually think there's pros and cons to legalizing it, cons because it could take away the class consciousness many sex workers have by matter of being in a job that gets you face to face with capitalism.
When it comes to your body, it's a lot more close to you what your labor means. Maybe there should be a sort of unofficial union to help represent them.
I'm not willing to go that liberal.
That sort of shit crops up in these sorts of threads and I think for the most part the non-retarded posters just gave up trying to argue with those pol-tier retards.
are there any mutual-aid groups or organisations for sex workers? like online groups or lists of abusive customers and so on? you could try to ferment unionisation using those existing structures. if they don't exist, make them.
This is Marx biggest fuck up in my opinion. The lumpenproletariat have everything to gain by a revolution and quite literally nothing to lose. They already live plagued with the violence of poverty and capitalism and poverty under capitalism.
People should represent the "illegal" jobs in America far more, because the workers in them are far more aware of their position than others. I would even say Hispanic agricultural immigrants.
We're only afraid because its icky and degenerate, but well, that's Capitalism. We have to face the "icky" controversial parts of the dark market to get allies, they know all this better than most. This personal responsibility nonsense that often gets brought up is a bane to left solidarity.
The fuck up lies with people who think everything Marx said is applicable today tbh.
Do you still have that comic where the blue haired girl gets heckled by some dudes and in the last panel is enjoying getting fucked and degraded?
One place where Bakunin was right again
The farm workers union founded by Chavez does represent them.
Yes there actually is. I talk to sex workers regularly in college. They have to go into sex work because college is just so fucking expensive they need extra income, and it gives them far more class consciousness with resources at their disposal. And these people out abusive clients, and the like.
It's not much, but it's a start. I must admit they keep waiting for the left to care about them, but the left can sometimes be too liberal to focus on an "icky" job like that. Even the far left. It becomes more about optics then labor.
The lumpenproletariat of Marx's time and ours are very different.
it's more so the ties to the fucked up shit that goes on in those worlds rather than women being degenerate for having sex, but the only solution to cleaning that up is to legalize sex work but crack down hard on pimps & traffickers.
I've always been afraid they might go to right populism, but the way their job is as it stands, they're consistently marxist to one degree or another.
In the UK the Sex Workers Union joined the GMB Trade Union as part of a Merger.
The GMB's a General Union (i.e. anyone can join it), don't know if there's anything similar in the US.
Anybody who's anti-sex-worker is the nottest my comrade.
Looking at you Badmouse.
I fear legalizing them is a liberal solution. It makes these workers distracted from the previous struggles they've been through that made them class conscious in the first place, even bout feminism you might not like, to an even more liberal view of these things as new blood arrives. With liberal feminism.
Which is something neither they, or we want.
Honestly? Right to work isn't that bad.
The problem is the way that US unions seem entirely reliant upon employers to do their organising for them.
Is he anti sexwork?
Not to mention a lot of it is black markets anyway, meaning lower visibility to the establishment and more potential for communization.
It really does seem like madness to me though. The lumpenproletariat….in my mind they should be called the ultraproletariat instead, particularly today in the west, the prole has been pampered to some degree. The ultraprole remains destitute despite the abundance and will be hit hardest by any change downward. The prole who is forced to sell their labour and cannot even reap the rewards of that slavery. Thats what I think more or less of the ultraproletariat
maybe so but its illegality is what keeps them oppressed by people who traffick them and far worse. i don't know a good solution.
Oh yeh shit Stalin was a literal bankrobber and extortionist. A real hard cunt. Shut up tankmaster your ideal leader is a bonda fide uber-lumpen
It killed unions off and is the reason as a houstonfag I get less as a small businessesfag than I would have working in a factory. I'd say it's bad.
That's just stupid, the choices are equally as bad. Being anti-sexwork because you're anti-work shouldn't mean being anti-sexworker for a communist.
What I've heard from my sex worker friends is organizing without the need for anything official. It's dangerous sure, but if they get enough power and clout, they can do this better than it would be under liberal reforms. Where liberal feminism and liberal market bullshit infests some of the most class conscious on the streets.
Am I an exploitative asshole for utilizing the services of a prostitute?
No. You're not.
The only reason it did that was that the Union bureaucracy in the US had become so listless. Why bother organising towards pay rises or taking industrial action if you can just sit down with the bosses and compromise something?
No ethical consumption and all that
Clients aren't the problem. The powers that be are the problem.
On UNIONS BUT NOT CO-OPERATIVES Luxemburg was right. Also Kropotkin cos he said largely the same thing. Unions are sorta counter productive in many ways and are ripe for becoming appendages to capitalism rather than revolutionising it. Also union membership int he UK at least has plummeted since the 70's to like 25% of what it used to be and thats continuing to drop. Also these unions are nowhere near as radical.
No honour among thieves…
They're not thieves.
I think the internet has given them a lot of independence right? How many sex workers are still under the pimp model?
I'm talking merely about my own short-term interest here fam. I don't think unions are revolutionary or even good for reform but would enjoy getting paid more.
More than you would expect, but less than there was. It's allowed them to organize more than ever in the past. And this too, has made them talk about class consciousness more and more together. So like we've been saying they're good allies we shouldn't just skimp out on because it's dirty or degenerate. They not only understand, but they're willing to learn more.
Depends on the union and workplace.
After the early 2000s quite a few have reformed themselves drastically and become a lot more radical.
A good trade union works under the assumption that it's members should be able to withdraw their labour at any time, then organise their structures around that.
Metaphorically speaking of course. Whores detest each other.
Here it comes. I know a lot of sex workers and they don't detest each other in the slightest. They know each other day to day, they're like coworkers.
why would I care about degen, pimps & human traffickers are the problem and should be gulag
Really I'm a decent person. I always treat them well but I didn't always. As I spoke to them I learned about thier lives and the perils of sex work. So many of them are single mothers, can't work because of felonies or something etc. It became difficult for me to hate them or hate women in general.
It was in one of his videos a while back. I forget which one. He was repeating the meme that we should oppose sex work (and methods to reform/decriminalize it IIRC) on the basis that it's rapey.
No, it's being anti-sexwork because it's icky. And also ignoring the fact that whether it's legal or not it will still happen, which makes the position moot except as an indication of how vapid the person holding it is. It's not explicitly anti-sex-worker; the position is anti-sex-worker if you take it to its logical conclusions.
Different place I guess.
FIRST MAKE THE JOB LEGAL!
Then you can try to organize.
If somebody told me some story like this there is 0% chance I would get it up
The last thing we want is sex work to become even more of a large scale market with liberal feminist ideals as opposed to what it is now. The worker must stand for themselves united, not beg the government for a bone.
I'm not saying that Trade Union levels haven't fallen (they have), what I'm saying is that some Unions in the UK have become more radical and active (they have).
Also check out the levels of Trade Unionism in France if you want a shock.
I wonder if it would be good praxis for lonely lefties to hire a prostitute just to talk to someone. Like therapy but cheaper, and to help them get over their bullshit and talk about class with someone…
Which I disagree with. I also don't support tbe abolishment of any particular sort of work because it is impossible. In the meantime I support whatever helps workers, whether this is increased wages, less work, or decriminalization/legalization.
We shouldn't let the workers wait till the government stops dragging it's feet. Organize who you can when you can
Yeah, I knew what you were saying. I just wanted to make it more clear what I was talking about because it makes me so fucking mad at stupid people.
I bet that happens often enough to sex workers that it's just annoying and grating to provide a shoulder for people to cry on because they're desperate
oh man why did you tell me that
I think the lesson here is that organisation and motivation is more important than just paper membership tbh.
it could work if it's just decriminalized for the worker, they would still be oppressed and have revolutionary potential.
Would they rather have to fuck them?
Having heard a former sex worker talk about it, that's kind of part of the job.
At least fucking doesn't HAVE to come with emotional baggage
You're talking about preference tbh. Which is worse - talking about feelings or getting fucked - is going to depend on the person.
organisation and motivation don't mean nuthin without people to organise although your point is mostly true the left severely lacks discipline particularly revolutionary discipline
Most of the time it does
I'm thinking about lobbying them and Democrats at the same time. We come from two fronts: the primaries and the general election. Against Conservative Republicans we would back an agreeable Libertarian to soften them up and a Democrat open to the idea to clinch it.
It was one of Marx's bigger failings to try to explain "lumpenproletariat" like that. He made one analysis of where the homeless joined up with the army because a highly popular king led them against an unpopular worker's revolt and then crowbarred it into an analysis of capitalism.
If you can't recognize some of the failings of his writing then you're not reading Marx as a human philosopher but religiously.
Good luck OP. I'd love to see the profession legalized first but I guess it's good to start where you can.
Why some lefties are anti-sex work?
Hot guy on the right.
Spooks or muh lumpens is why a good amount are anti-sexworker, but all communists are anti-sexwork in the context lf being anti-work.
Blame the anti-lupenprole sentiment along with Feminism. Pic related delves into how the Feminist movement clashed hard with the Sex Workers' Rights' movement a few decades back.
Sweet Christ you are sad and deluded. Messiah complex.
That's more or less the issue. Feminists choose to define sex workers as arch-victims of the Patriarchy while refusing to acknowledge the right of sex workers to label themselves as workers deserving of rights. It's systematic infantalization by ideology.
I bet you take naked showers too, you godless whore.
So this is why lolberts have made such inroads with sex workers?
I see, do you have a pdf of the book?
Unfortunately I do not. However I did just recently finish "The Authoritarians" which is freely available as a PDF, and I highly recommend it. A psychologist's take on proto-fascists.
God damnit, you're going to make me pay hundreds of dollars for a decent cummy, aren't you? If your prostitute union doesn't maximize the amount of cummies we can have, probably bringing it in lines with the rates in Czechoslovakia and St. Petersburg ($30 an hour) it's against public interest, and needs to be state owned.
Well that's a shame. So I take it the path forward is to not get triggered by muh lumpens and address sex work as work instead of a moral ill or whatever? also do you still have the comic with the blue haired girl getting degraded while being fucked?
I've been meaning to take a look at that but I've been busy with Malatesta's works and writing scripts.
Get a tinder and you can have cummies for free you fag.
lemme get that comic also
if this was true, why do sex workers even exist? learn basic economics, you cummunist fag.
Because 50+ year old men want to fuck 20-something qts instead of their wives.
you have to talk to people to use tinder, too hard.
let me off this wild ride.
Those 50 year olds don't really have wives dude most are divorced and if they are married it's sexless and miserable
I'm somewhat ok with unionization as long as people go into it understanding its not a "good" thing to be celebrated and that it remains a wholly capitalist creation based on unfulfillment and a lack of authentic meaningful relationships. The advent of Socialism will most likely result in the abolishment of any such work and attitudes towards sex merely by conditions as well as habitual porn consumption
Ummm… While I 100% fully agree with your post, I find pretty memey the fact that you don't think pornstars are sex workers on par with hoes.
they are artists stfu
Ummmm… no sir, gulag for you.
Not him but it doesn't work for me for whatever reason. That's why I have to utilize the services of sex workers
Get tinder and fuck for free nerd
Where did I say that? Pornstars will most likely disappear to near niche levels in communism, being mostly reduced to a kind of esoteric or limited "artistic" kind of thing.
This sound better.
Won't work because in most countries sex workers are petite bourgeoisie.
This post can't be serious.
It can, tankies are the most retarded posters on the board.
I just tell myself 70% of my fellow MLs here are Holla Forums falseflags
I think you guys have a retard problem and around here it uses the tank flag. The rest of us are dealing with the same shit though.
The entire moderation team on reddit's biggest subs are tankies too. At least the ones here don't want to ban the letter B.
This shit is disgusting.
Who employs the "sex worker" in the west?
The behavior depicted in the comic?
The belief that women behave as depicted in the comic?
The point being made by the comic?
People requesting the comic?
Me posting the comic?
A brothel or a pimp. Sure there's independent street walkers and escorts, but they're hardly bourgie. Maybe lumpen,
So I saw this and decided to hit up that leftist sex worker we all love (here
and here ) as I'd figured if anyone would know about this stuff it'd be her and this is what she said. Hope it's useful OP.
Why is it hot
All of the above. tbh.
Pimps are protection cartels. In places where the "sex work" is legalized they do not exist. Brothels do not pay wages. They charge rent to sex workers who are treated as independent contractors. There is no wage labor. It is akin to owning a small business. The minute it becomes legalized all radical sex workers will disappear.
I'll echo this
Unless there's some third world country I didn't hear of who managed to find a perfect solution to this, Western Europe's is the only model.
It depends on state, doesn't it? Offering, buying or both might be criminalized or not.
self-degradation turns me on
Just as bad if not worse then wage labor Read Henry George
Ehh. Idpol is what happens when people don't recognize that whatever highly specific form of oppression/exploitation they experience is directly connected to capitalism, and thus try to remedy the surface shit (micro aggression, cultural appropriation, etc.) thinking that the issue is with the way people think. For some people, that's the case due to incredibly limited and controlled experiences with those different to them. Even then, some of the shit libs get hot over is fucking stupid
Getting mad about objectively shittier standards than other people experience is not idpol.
Well fellas, I asked some among the sex worker community and some among the clientele. Response boils down to "I hope that you succeed but I doubt that you will".
I think that we can surprise them though. If we can get union sponsorship I think it's doable.
But that's not *~'☆real☆'~* feminism.
abolish porn. This is the only valid answer
Sex worker unions only work where sex workers are paid wages. Otherwise they function more like cartels, which aren't leftist in the slightest. Also seeing as sex work will be abolished under socialism I see little reason to align ourselves with these individuals.
To be fair there are real cultural problems which won't magically go away when capitalism is replaced with communism. It will fix a lot of problems, but not all of them. The problem with intersectionality as it is understood by feminists is that they complain about all the trivial shit which will mostly go away under communism. 99% of effort is spent on getting more women into capitalists positions and fighting for shit like reparations which don't even make sense outside of capitalism. Zero effort is put into the fighting the few remaining examples of genuine non-economic oppression in the world, and in fact most feminists would actively fight against those oppressed groups because feminism is just another part of the capitalist structure.
It won't just be "abolished" in the socioeconomic sense. It will be literally illegal.
Yeah, I agree that once "gommunism ajeeved" happens, it would take some time and effort to iron out all societal wrinkles, but until then aint no real shit is going to happen. Socialism will make way for social progress, not the other way around. But there most certainly are areas right now we can and should combat, just not, you know, hissy fits over the dumbest most shallow shit.
Look into IEAU for a sex workers union, albiet one concerned with porn which is legal to produce in cali and be sold in burgerland. I do think it's an uphill battle for you because of legal issues but as someone likely joiing the DGA you have my support. And while I don't pay for sex I admit the idea of seeing a union approved escort is intriguing enough tp throw down $300.
Story of the board.
That's literally not a union though. That's like calling a organization of businesses a "union." It's a cartel. Those aren't revolutionary and never will be. You have no idea what you are doing do you?
Tankies should be shot.
You are dumb as hell my man
I will check it out. Uphill battles are just battles at this point.
Are you serious about this? Why the hell would there be need for another price cartel? This does not even benefit the working class but the petit-bourgeois that you are.
This is almost idiotic as medical doctors or lawyers unions.
If you called it the "sex worker guild" I would have no problem with it. I would also refuse to work with you in any capacity and work with other orgs to make sure that you were completely cut off from cooperation with revolutionary groups. Sex work is not work. It is a sad result of alienation and will be removed from society by socialism.
a tankie with regressive sex politics? i'm shocked
Do you even realize how fucking spooked you are?
really buckles my buttons
Why do we tolerate these fuckers?
I believe there were some difficulties forming it and the porn industry being what it is the union may be weak. Alternatively there are several advocacy orgs like Free Speech Coalition and APAC that may be worth looking into if a union isn't a viable option with prostitution being criminalized. Though after the rape stuff I'm not sure how APAC is doing.
No, soon he will be on about anarkkkists and telling you you're part of the whitetariat.
Trade unionists stabbed revolutionary unions in the back every fucking time they got close to achieving anything. Labor aristocracy should be torn down not built up and strengthened.
list of things tankies hate:
- the proletariat
- most oppressed groups
have fun living in the suburbs off your parent's fortune forever
Not even him but come on
literally counterrevolutionary but ok
Literal liberal SJW logic right there friend.
Don't post Holla Forums memes.
Remember kids, Tankies are always Holla Forums shills whether they themselves even realize it or not.
Holla Forums generally doesn't like MGTOW tho, the far right are white knights if anything
It's like you don't know that we also keep an eye on you too.
your friend there with Holla Forums memes seems to think i'm correct
They also claim to hate the aut-right and brown people but they are the aut-right and brown. Stop derailing the thread with your autism.
Sex workers aren't wage laborers. They are freelancers. Organizing them does nothing but create yet another roadblock to socialism. It's a lot like organizing doctors/lawyers in a way. It doesn't raise class consciousness (in fact over time it will do the opposite) and also helps to reinforce the professionalism meme.
Violated Heroine is my shit.
It's just too bad the development is so haphazard that plenty of cool stuff gets left unfinished.
they sell their labor (ie sexual services) on the market to sustain themselves. Stop clinging to set definitions and recognize what's right in front of you.
Sex workers don`t add any value to society, they only extract it form it by turning sex into commodity to be sold.
Their "labor" holds no value to society at large!
You're an idiot who cannot tell things apart by kind.
Say that you have two Capitalists. They make their living by owning Capital. One has a trust fund worth one billion dollars. The other has a trust fund worth only a mere one million dollars. The dividends that they withdraw are $40 million vs $40 thousand. They live with a different level of luxury. However they are alike in their interests: a rising of the valuation of shares of Capital sees them both benefiting, and a hit to share valuation seems them both losing. Their interests are bound up together.
Say you have two laborers. One is a doctor who makes $200 an hour. The other is a factory worker making $20. One can afford a much nicer house and car. One can afford much more luxurious vacations. They both feel the pinch when their health insurance is cut rate. They both know what a 60 hour work week does to their family life. They both know what it is to toil under bosses who only care about quarterly projections.
You are an enemy of labor, either inadvertently due to a failure to understand how to group like with like, or you are a shill here to agitate and sew division.
Lots of workers aren't wage laborers, the employment system has shifted in legal terms to save large corporations money. I'm for all practical purposes I am an employee of a large manufacturer, but technically I'm a self-employed contractor in order to save them money. This does not mean I am not exploited or in a bad position despite having more business experience than the coinfags on /biz/, and the same applies to sex workers.
You don't add any value but you're still around. Go cry yourself to sleep while Li cucks you with a conservative.
buzz of with your non-arguments, work that holds no labor value is and cannot be exploited. Advocating for sex work is the same as actively expanding capitalism by increasing the amount of markets and commodities in society.
Don't call it sex workers in any description. That will blow up in your face because it's illegal. Use other wording.
Honestly not sure it should or should not be legalized or decriminalized. I've seen contradicting information. Some say it makes it safer for clients and sex workers some studies say it creates a place for human trafficking. I guess it differs by countrg.
Unionization is legitimately a good way to demonstrate the legitimacy of legalization though. It's a clear declaration that "no, we're not mere victims and nothing else, the entire system can be kept reasonably clean and orderly."
I don't think it is Porky's fault so much as being unfocused development. Apparently one of the forks is somewhat more cohesive though I don't know if it is all translated.
There is labor value going into sex work, namely the hooker, pornstar, or stripper is selling their labor power to produce a commodity. If you want to write them off you've by extension written off any artfags or almost anyone who doesn't work in a factory.
I'm not advocating for sex work, I honestly hate that qt girls have to take dick from old dudes and would like to see it abolished with the rest of work. What I am for is sex worker rights to ensure they are reasonably protected and more comfortable within the context of capitalism in the same manner I am for every other worker's rights.
It's not your fault she has to pay bills and (probably) feed her family, you're just helping her out in that regard.
Just be sure you have her consent before doing something like trying to kiss her, spank her etc.
This is some fucking Holla Forums tier shit
You will be purged in any serious ML organization
What? It was the Bolsheviks that stabbed trade unions in the back despite theit help in the revolution. What the fuck is this hardcore revison-
Artfags produce goods with arbitrary and labor value. Sex is not an material good, but human biological necessity, it holds no unique or arbitrary value and especially no labor value.
Prostitution was illegal in the USSR. Not really sure what you are getting at. Sex "work" is something that is not necessary under socialism.
The gall of some people lmao
Marx was wrong because his analysis of lumpen fucking sucked.
Thing is, sex work is gonna exist under capitalism no matte what, and they don't deserve shitty standards of living just because they don't produce a thing that can be consumed, nor are they the only ones who do that.
You don't know the difference between productive and unproductive labour.
It's better than kissing a tankie.
It is either a product with porn or a service comparable to a play or massage with strippers and hookers.
not everyone wants to repeat the USSR.
It's a service, the same as working as a cashier or playing concert piano.
I mean you are literally paying someone to do something for you, how is that not a service?
To each their own, not saying he should, just that if he wants to he should ask first.
Lenin literally purged prostitutes as part of Red Terror so maybe choose another picture sweaty x :)
Cashiers are not necessarily labor, that is the very reason why they are being replaced by automation. For the pianist, in addition to adding in format of unique value(the music part) their works can and usually have arbitrarily value in format of ticket sales and such.
No its not. Porn holds direct monetary value, where as strippers could be argued to hold unique value if not even arbitrarily value on the side.
"It is these women that the capitalists most willingly employ as home-workers, who are prepared for a monstrously low wage to “earn a little extra” for themselves and their family, for the sake of a crust of bread. It is from among these women, too, that the capitalists of all countries recruit for themselves (like the ancient slave-owners and the medieval feudal lords) any number of concubines at a most “reasonable” price. And no amount of “moral indignation” (hypocritical in 99 cases out of 100) about prostitution can do anything against this trade in female flesh; so long as wage-slavery exists, inevitably prostitution too will exist. All the oppressed and exploited classes throughout the history of human societies have always been forced (and it is in this that their exploitation consists) to give up to their oppressors, first, their unpaid labour and, second, their women as concubines for the “masters”."
V. I. Lenin - CAPITALISM AND FEMALE LABOUR
All wage labour is inherently exploitative, I don't need to explain this to you guys, its a pillar of Marxism.
I see a lot of slective pity in the liberal and leftist crowds. Always the sadness about women selling sex, not cleaning toilets, caring for other women's babies. Blow-job exceptionalism.
Unless your position is that only factory jobs are labour and service sector jobs aren't labour then I don't see how leftists can say that sex work isn't labour, why the differentiation? Why discriminate against people honestly trying to make ends meet?
I'm not saying prostitution is good or that you must like it, just that you don't become reactionary and hostile towards them, hamper their attempts to survive, unionize and improve their lives.
These people are being exploited, forced to literally sell their bodies to survive and you fucks think they don't deserve to live better because some old fart 200 years ago said they don't matter.
Let no one tell me M-Ls actually care about bettering the condition of people in the shitter, they're clearly comfortable upper-middle class kids that know nothing of real struggle if their only word for sex workers is "just keep taking dicks, getting STDs, having no health coverage, no pension and being constantly harrased by criminal gangs and cops, it'll all go away with the revolution, until then tough luck you petty bourgeois :^) it can't be that bad anyway, according to Mary you're not even a real proletarian"
And yet Lenin eliminated prostitution. If we organize them then they will become a problem later on. The goal is not to ameliorate capitalism but eliminate it.
wow Marx btfo
Leaving them be only encourages them to continue in their parasitic ways. Even the party saw it as a right course of action to rid society of prostitutes under socialism, so why should leftists wait for the revolution before getting rid of this disgusting and rotten bit of society.
Is Castro suddenly bad because he realized he was wrong about gays?
reminds me of a joke Michael Parenti told about his trip to the USSR.
The tour guide said there were no prostitutes in the country. Parenti responded that maybe there weren't any hookers in the country but there sure were a lot of them in his hotel.
How alienated do you have to be to think like this? Sex is no more a service than conversation is. The fact that we are having this kind of debate shows how far capitalism has progress honestly. It's pretty sad. Sex is as easy as breathing for humans under most conditions.
Labor goes into producing porn, performing strip acts, and fucking old dudes. If we are to write off this sex work as not real labor, then we also have to write off any performers, artists, and various services such as haircuts as not real labor.
He never did change is mind about abolishing prostitution trough.
Those things can be accounted to have both arbitrarily monetary value in addition to unique artistic value. How hard is this to comprehend?
Prostitution is excellent as it is women's natural job. Not only is it entirely in line with femoid nature, but it satisfies the needs of the lower class and strips men of the delusion of love.
When the revolution comes, love will be abolished and be replaced with free prostitutes. Since women do not count as human beings, they will be used exclusively used as baby incubators and fuckholes for all of society. We will have gigantic communal brothels where everybody gets a chance. True fraternity between all men at last.
Again doesn't mean he's right as proof that he was wrong about gays. Why the fuck do you retards treat ML leaders like dogmatists rather than actually treating them like humans who could make mistakes. The 20th century is over.
Anfem being lewd!?
Was the SU not real socialism then?
most sex workers do more than just fuck. in order to be successful they have to be able to connect with customers emotionally to some degree. There's a reason why lots of married men go to visit prostitutes and pay them to just talk instead of fuck.
They could be but you haven't shown why.
How does this not apply to stripping or porn? Even prostitution can be placed on par with other services, you are just spooked about sex because Li shot you down.
But prostitution hasn't changed at all. It's still exploitative and parasitic. It has no place in a socialist society. It has no revolutionary character or potential. At best they become a trade union. At worst a cartel. Either way there is no point in aiding their attempts at organization.
helping them organize both helps protect them from abuse and could help radicalize them to left politics if they weren't already.
You are literally opposing workers unionizing because your spooked about sex and sex work.
It does apply to porn and stripping, but not to prostitution since there is nothing unique nor artistic about sex.
I don't care what they do. Trade unions don't help anyone except the skilled laborers involved in them. They are lukewarm at best when it comes to even the most basic of social reforms, let alone revolutionary changes.
Ok then there are two kinds of justified sex work, now how is prostitution worse than getting a haircut or massage or any other service?
Its tied to human trafficking, violence against women and sex with underage girls.
by keeping it illegal you make it harder to differentiate between actual victims and people who choose to do sex work
no one has any real choice under capitalism so singling out prostitutes over other jobs is ridiculous
This thread is creepy as hell. Paying for sex is rape; thinking otherwise is basically rejecting the majority of female socialists.
Sex is not a service.
My own advice, create localised chapters, California chapter, Nevada chapter etc.
Don't charge, just receive donations.
Contact these people from Twitter, they can at least put you in contact with people "on the ground" if you will.
Check out Eric Sprankle, PsyD (@DrSprankle): twitter.com
Check out SWOP Behind Bars (@swopbehindbars): twitter.com
Check out sexworkerseverywhere (@SWeverywhere): twitter.com
Check out NSWP (@GlobalSexWork): twitter.com
Check out PACE Society (@PaceSociety): twitter.com
Check out SWOP-USA (@swopusa): twitter.com
This one is on Canada.
Check out FIRST Decrim.SexWork (@FirstAdvocates): twitter.com
There's a lot of workers in this Fb group.
Child care is not a service.
Nursing is not a service.
Cooking is not a service.
And if those factors were removed, and in the case of say a young woman in college who is not underage, trafficked, or the victim of violence it would be ok?
Under capitalism it is. Such is alienation.
Imagine thinking child care, nursing, and cooking is comparable to rape.
Sex is not a service in the same way that friendship is not a service. It's an organic relationship. We move towards true sex the more we approach communism. Prostitution is an artifact of history.
Legalization does not solve those issues, as we can see in Sweden for example where selling of sex is legal but buying is not, leading to unstable and dangerous customers.
In Germany despite its legal position it still suffers form human trafficing and other issues regarding prostitution.
We should focus our collective efforts in re-educating these women so they can become productive members of society and seek more fulfilling professional lives. We only need to keep this under the wraps until sexbots become economically viable replacement for prostitution.
Additionally this adds new layers of social alienation to the buyers of sex in the current state of affairs.
There would still be host of issues form alienation of the buyers to not those factors vanishing in reality.
Sex work literally cannot exist without those things. The various legalization attempts have proven that. I would rather live in a society that encouraged young women to become doctors and scientists rather than professional cock massagers.
And how does this not apply to every other aspect of life under capitalism?
This thread was started by a college age hooker who isn't underage or being trafficked or being violently coerced and abused on the job. It is reality you fingolian cuck.
Why should be then decide to add more to the social alienation?
Its irrelevant who started this thread, individual cases do not represent the reality of prostitution nor its effects as whole.
The OP proves otherwise.
I would as well, in addition to a society without wage labor and commodity production. Unfortunately we do not currently live in that society and refusing to organize within the one we do, where professional cock massagers exist, is retarded.
We shouldn't, however we should ensure that workers are protected even if in an industry we don't approve of.
Not remotely what I said, but tankies being illiterate is hardly surprising.
which is why most sex workers oppose the swedish model and favor total decriminalization.
"reeducation" jesus christ the issue isn't that sex workers aren't productive the issue is that they're at risk of violence because of how the government categorizes their job.
You are my hero. May your praxis be good.
Best way to protect them would abolishing the whole damn industry. It will also lead to further gender inequalities if legalized by giving women easier access to financial opportunities in relation to males.
This is retarded
Of course they prefer legal grey areas. They are all aspiring petite bourgeoisie.
It's already illegal here in burgerland and it still exists as a black market. Prohibition doesn't work and just leads to worse conditions to those involved.
Then why do countries with legal prostitution still suffer form human trafficking of prostitutes and such? Simple matter to the fact is, that legalization drives up prices, leading to demand for cheaper even if illegal prostitution that still holds the all same social ills that I have mentioned before.
The conditions will persist if you organize sex workers into a powerful cartel however. It's best if we just work to move them into other economic sectors.
Those conditions would not change for the vast majority of prostitutes even if legalization were to happen due to artificial rise in prices leading to human trafficking of foreign prostitutes as has happened in Netherlands,Germany and Austria.
don't use words you can't define
like how legalizing pot made the mexican cartels even richer? Oh right, illegal cartels hate the idea of legalizing drugs. Legalization of sex work would weaken the black market, not strengthen it.
Thus why they favor decriminalization. They don't want to have to compete with 15 year old whores from Belarus.
Legalization has made drugs more safer and cheaper due to the difference in production scale,supply and demand. Prostitution in Europe where it is legal has increased human trafficking as price carters formed around legal prostitution leading to influx of east European prostitutes along African ones in whole of Europe.
Legalization of prostitution has been political failure everywhere in Europe.
We aren't talking about a cartel, we're talking about an advocacy group to support their rights and prevent them from running into the shit that comes with being a criminal.
They do move into other sectors, they're not retards and realize they've got maybe a decade before they can't compete with younger hookers. The market will still exist if we drove out every current prostitute and would be refreshed within a few years as more people went into it.
But it will change for the ones we're talking about here, the voluntary prostitutes so to speak. Prohibition won't help the trafficking victims, here in burgerland trafficking still happens, particularly around NFL games for some reason, despite it all being illegal.
fucking cite your sources rosa killer
Use google, its filled with articles like this and this in addition admited issue by the EU court of human rights in addition other organs of EU and the national governments.
You're not serious are you?, the cost will be higher specialy if there are unions. A lot. You are not talking about cab drivers.
nowhere in the article does it say that this is because of legalized prostitution.
I guess that's what trafficked 16 year olds from Eastern Europe are for then.
It is not just because of legalization it is DESPITE the legalization like I stated before. Legalization only improves conditions for minority of prostitutes.
Legalizing sex work is a step backward. Just stop. It's like legalizing wage theft. It's not something we need. Sex worker need to move on to actual jobs and stop leeching off of productive labor.
we've moved on from "sex workers aren't workers because i said so" to "sex workers are workers but we should still discriminate against them because I said so"
I am pro to decriminilize prostitution but unions are a diferent story.
You are not looking at a lot of variables and posible outcomes.
Hookers are hookers because
A) They are forced
B) They have no viable options
C) They have viable options but selling their ass is easier.
And none of those wants unions or benefits from a union. First of all unions are for skilled workers who need their abilities recognized as such.
The question is WHY?
Why would a hooker want unions and regulations?
Why not get a normal job if they have to meet standards and rules, paperwork etc..?
Why would a call girl get a union when they can pay 20% to someone for physical protection without bullshit.
Why would a crack addict whore get a union and spend time money and effort when she only has to extend her hand to grab money (and a dick)
Why would they submit to higher regulations than a waiter?
Why would horny Joe pay $800 more for a job he would only pay $100 for.
I shouldn't be surprised that Holla Forums is split between reactionary crypto-Holla Forumsyps that are desperately trying to say that prostitutes are degenerates without saying it and the kind of lowlifes that actually contribute to the exploitation of sex workers and want to make excuses for it. We should stand in solidarity with sex workers while also recognizing what an exploitative industry it is. We should work to make their lives better while also working for a world where degrading work like that is no longer a necessity for so many people.
I seriously don't want to go back to living in a society where prostitution is a legitimate career path for my children. Call me old fashioned for wanting doctor and engineer daughters but I don't give a fuck.
This. Why should prostitution be legal if there is no scale effect? Of course, sex is like a lot of other activities in that these exist performed for money as well as performed not for money, and when they are performed not for money it is usually more satisfying doing it (whether that activity is preparing food for someone you care about or whatever), but the good reason for having some division of labor and specializing and alienation, a reason that will continue to exist even in Socialism though this will be tempered by other considerations, is because it is more efficient. What on earth is supposed to be the efficiency gain of people having sex as a job?
Decriminalization is such wonderful idea, its not like gray markets have negative effects on society at all!
If your daughters go into prostitution, it will have fuck all to do with if It's legal or not.
What is far worse is the feeling if they do refuse to do this, the amount of self-loathing that follows feels unbearable. What is the damn point without any feeling of intimacy that follows the act itself?
What is this meme? Do construction workers and retail workers not deserve unions? Are you mentally retarded you idiot?
As for your why questions:
Health coverage and pension coverage. Thos should be ample enough reasons.
Without economic or literal slavery no one would be a prostitute but everything is voluntary in the mind of a liberal. What is in their interest is not to be forced into prostitution but the interest that a cartel would look after is the profitability of their business. There is no employer to bargain against, there is no exploitation in the economic sense. The injustice takes place when the prostitute is compelled by society to make money or starve, not through inadequate compensation.
What are brothels that subcontract them for 200$?
Look obviously prostitution isn't something that should be encouraged but it's an activity that has permeated human existence from day 1, so you can't just ban it and close your eyes, thinking it'll go away.
Prostitutes have the right to demand their brothels cover health insurance and offer them regular medical checkups and so on.
This is a case of reducing the net amount of misery and brainless dogmatism just makes you all look like comfortable middle class kids who wank over revolutionary purity, while completely ignoring the real suffering at hand.
Kind of like that joke Žižek made with the mongol warrior rapist.
I'm pretty sure sexworkers can unionise in the UK.
In the UK sex workers are self employed even if they work at a brothel. This is due to anti-pimping laws and unions like GMB do take on self employed people.
In normal societies those aren't work benefits but things everyone has access to regardless of employment status. Your own imagination is disfigured by capitalist logic.
I don't know why you brought that joke up when a goal of getting benefits for prostitutes is much like wanting to let the balls of institutionalized rape become dusty.
From an article @mishkwan just posted:
Pack it up everybody, because not wanting to be raped is puritanical.
Great, now not only do we have puritanism in the water, we have hysteria, hyperbole and reddit spacing.
Sex work is just normal exploitative work with a little something extra… Cocks! Which MANY women love!
Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying sex work, like all work, is coercive, and therefore rape, or unionizing as sex workers is good because it prevents rape?
In australia we had the sex party as a political party. That was backed by the "eros foundation" They only just recently merged into another party but they were going for a good long while and definitely got a lot of traction in the media.
It was also good to be able to tell people im voting for the sex party when i didnt want to tell them who i was really voting for.
Don't lefties hate hierarchy? Why do you support unions? They're pyramid schemes on steroids that don't even work in your best interest.
You are a stupid asshole.
In the US they are. The UK and France has pretty lit unions.
Which one are good?
No idea, I'm from the UK but whenever France crops up some union is busting the governments and employers balls. The amount of unionised in France is just about in double digits iirc and Macron hates them for the political power they manage to wield.
Yes, it's rape. It's not just exploitation, it's exploitation plus rape. The whole point of the abolition paradigm is that it's not like other work, it's totally dependent on gendered domination.
Oh, well fuck yourself then you fucking spastic, it's been discussed multiple times and you're just chiming in the same shit a hundred posts later with some other middle class porker who agrees with you like it's anything new.
I'm literally telling you what the majority of feminists and female socialists in the world think and you can't handle it.
You're realize your position is also held by predominantly white people right? Funny that, people who are pro-rape are also racists.
Excuse me, but did you just both assume my race and gender? I am actually a proud POC woman of color, and if you don't agree with selling yourself to pay for reparations, you're a colonizer, a racist, a sexist, and probably a fascist too.
This is the state of this board.
And yet you didn't report either of them. gg
these posts got reported but I don't even know how to deal with this
I don't feel like sifting through their whole autistic discussion, I can tell by post history these aren't Holla Forumsacks
Ban this one for pulling the race card
It's just what the majority of Holla Forumsers and Holla Forums socialists in the world think.
Do something else. With the japanese sex robots sex work is becoming obsolete. We are one step closer to the fully automated luxury communism.
It was hilarious how butthurt those Thots in Belgium got over it
Yeah thats the problem with unions, they are keen on keeping the jobs even if it meant dragging back progress. Less work should be a good thing, but obviously in capitalism it isn't.
Please be careful the future because impersonating an SJW can result in a ban
How do these modern unions compare with late 19th and early 20th century unions that had revolutionary communist membership and leaders?
Yes, of course, I'd know this, I'm a comfy chrisdem living in a comfy chrisdem social market state, however OP was talking about America aka Ancapistan-lite, where dental plans are seen as luxuries. If even "normal" legal workers have enormous difficulty unionizing because of systematic union-busting, sex workers are several levels worse off here, since their worker status is very precarious.
Tankies are on fire recently.
You and a socdem sperging out isn't a btfo, stop being a revisionist.
This is modern day leftism. "muh voting blocks." Fucking pathetic.
How? How is less work ever a good thing? If you put in 4 hours worth of work instead of 8, then it takes you two days to get it done. In the long term it takes 10 years instead of 5 to advance a project. In the longer term it really stifles the progression of technology, infrastructure, and society in general, you lazy fuck.
Less work is a good thing because work is tedious and boring. 40 hours a week is way too fucking long and most Americans work more than that anyways
If you take away porky's profit and bullshit jobs, encourage automation etc. you could halve the work week in a few years.
Would have loved to see some of the cyrpto-libertarians in here around during child labour
Imagine how difficult it would have been to abolish it if child labor has been organized. This is insane.
Another day, another incel dogwhistle thread. Anyone gonna bet what the rigged topic will be the next time?
Incels come into the threads and shit up any thread that mentions any women, sex, or anything even slightly related to that. Don't blame the op
Tankies need to be bussed back to reddit.
eh, the tankies who don't have reactionary social views are cool
Those also happen to be the ones who aren't from reddit.
Posting this here because the retarded drawfag has managed to post it in two other front page threads and not this one.
pretty good tbh
Even I kekd'd.
Yeah I think it's good, I was just disappointed they managed to post in two threads at different places in the first page and not this one it's perfect for.
You can always get a leftcom for that.
How can anyone fuck up that bad?
It is when you pay for it.
Imagine thinking voluntary sex in exchange for money is comparable to rape.
There's that word again.
I think we're all getting a bit pedantic here and missing the points we're all trying to make.
Forcing someone in the street or anywhere to have sex with you via physical coercion and thus without consent is rape
Working at a supermarket for minimum wage is done purely for survival, and the financial pressure is coercion
Working as a prostitute for larger pay is also done purely for survival, but the customer is not coercing you, the financial pressure is the coercion
I don't, I'm not really anti sex worker per say, I just came here to laugh at the white knights on both sides(the pro hooker feminists and the SWERFs). I am not exactly anti sex worker per say, If I am going to be honest I just mostly think prostitutes are simply obsolete in the face of sexbots and VR.
The other tankie isn't a /r9k/ type, do you really think robots give a fuck if hookers are abused?
So looking into the IEAU, the burger pornstar union, something that caught my interest was how it was initially run by retired pornstars who hadn't been doing scenes in a long time. It seems to me that this may be even more relevant to escorts, where the career seems likely to be shorter than pornstars and anonymous to boot. How would you address this in chapters so they don't end up being run by people that haven't done sex work in years and are effectively retired?
I know right? It's like claiming that children voluntarily working for a wage is exploitation. If something is voluntary it can never be bad and should certainly not be abolished.
The golden rule of any successful thread here. The first 25 or so posts, they're alright. Everything after you can filter out.
You authoritarians always seem to have a problem with that word. Why is that, I wonder …?
Are you saying grown women are children? Or do you just not understand the meaning of "adult consent"?
dat me -_-
Because there is no such thing as free will
This entire thread just proves that tankies and socdems are fucking retarded. Solidarity with hookers
feels bad man
interesting how fetishes always seem to be the opposite of whatever your ideology is
The idea of political alignment being determined by their overall psychological fixations surfaces every now and then, I wonder how true it is.
Not under communism/nazism, anyway.
Not under anything you dotard.
Authoritarian regimes do not even allow the illusion of free will. We are individuals, not hive animals.
"Voluntary" is a weasel word. That's why we don't like it. It's all but meaningless.
Has there ever been a communist regime that was not authoritarian?
OK then; optional, discretionary, at one's discretion, elective, non-compulsory, non-mandatory, not required, open, open to choice, volitional, up to the individual — but I suppose they're all meaningless weasel words to an authoritarian.
Did Pol Pot even called himself a communist?
Anyway, anyone can say "I'm doing communism!" that doesn't mean they are actually "doing communism".
only for as long as China was his main geopolitical sponsor.
Regardless of whether real communism has ever been tried, people claiming to be communists have a very bad track record. So far, the likelihood of atrocity/humanitarian disaster is 1/1.
So do capitalists, we just tend not to talk about that.
Welcome to madness and civilization, this isn't unique to communism. You could say the same fucking thing about Feudalism, the Republic, and yes, even Capitalism.
Using the logic of the black book of communism on capitalism yields even worse results then the book reported on the USSR.
Thread derailed by stupid fucking moralfags who think sex workers are icky. And not deserving of the same consideration of their labor as others, not deserving the same working rights as others. Not being part of the proletariat when they risk their health more often on job site than most of you people.
Their also more hands on class conscious then most of you as well. Sex worker's rights are labor rights
Genocide? Nope. Ethnic cleansing? Nope. Planned famines? Nope.
IMO mixed economy works best; state runs the infrastructure (including healthcare and education) through taxes, while the private citizens can buy, make and sell goods on their own (including the sex trade).
It's probably true for some people and not true for others. Politics depends a lot on what information you're exposed to as well.
And yet there are places in this world where life is pretty good. None of them are communist states.
No laws are more immoral than those made for the sake of "morality". It's strange how authoritarians always have a hate-boner for sex-work (and sex in general).
I recall some article that sounded rather convincing. They interviewed somebody who helped exploited sex workers and explained that only way to really minimize exploitation is total decriminalization of prostitution and even pimping because most sex trafficking is built on or at least largely relies on the fact that their victims can't go to police without having to turn themselves in as well.
Capitalism has been involved in Colonialism and Post-Colonialism which has engaged in all of those things.
Now if you don't mind bud, make the millionth thread about how you think Venezuela stinks and calls it a day
Norway, for one (where I live), and most of western Europe – at least the parts that aren't too infested with this baizou bullshit.
Make your own thread. Last warning.
Colonialism and capitalism are two different things. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they do not. Both can exist without the other.
I've seen more respect for soldiers and police than they do sex workers. I'm pretty positive that line of work is ten times more dangerous than shooting unarmed brown and black children.
The disrespect they get for their line of work is more disgusting than anything a sex worker could possibly do. I believe this is why I see them become more collectivized than not, become radical more than not. Their understanding of the value of labor is probably more hands on than any of us could really imagine.
We have the Swedish model bullshit law here in Norway. It has cost the life of at least one woman so far (Galina Sandeva):
Tankies shit everything up.
Yeah I believe there was some law floated in california that did it with child prostitution and of course the intial response was how they were all kiddie fuckers while ignoring how such a law would in fact help those kids get out without their pimp or johns threatening them with jail. Decriminalization should be advocated for.
No the tankies hate those too. I can understand the cops but military ends up fucked over and hating the status quo, that and their training should make them prime targets for radicalization.
You may not like it, but this is what peak class performance looks like.
Engels whored like crazy and was a bourgeois. He was a good comrade nonetheless.
More info please.
Got any source?
The only article I found in English was this:
Basically, the law not only forces the sex workers outdoors, it also makes it impossible for them to go to the police for help. Naturally, the bible-thumpers and dworkinites are using this as a justification for making even tougher laws.
To me, this is an example of how moralism kills people.
Oh, wait; here's a better article:
Why a union and not a non-profit advocacy group or something like that? I could see a starting a union working decriminalization and legalization but beforehand it seems like it would run into legal issues that could be avoided with a non-profit.
They don't want legalization because then they would become actual wage laborers. They want decriminalization.
In the fourth post the OP said she wanted to push for legalization. I know tankies don't read but come on.
Tankies get so triggered by sex workers because they're technically "self-employed" and are only "provided facilities" by brothels and therefor petit-bourgeois, but don't they realize that in neoliberal capitalism there is no more traditional proletraiat - or at least it's heavily shrinking. Today young Europeans are rather part of the Precariat either stuck in McJobs (which count as traditional proletariat), but many are forced into shit like Uber driving and other similar conditions where they're technically freelance contract workers, do tankies hate them as well, because they don't fit into their standard models?
Do you accept housewifes?
I can't find a link but in the UK Pole Dancer Coops exist. Perhaps a union is not what you want to aim for but more along the lines of a soviet: a brothel owned and run by those that use it.
slut soviet ::DDDD
what these people will not come up with
That bumps up the charge from a misdemeanor to a felony, if my understanding of US law regarding prostitution is accurate. Arguably a union could also be construed as doing this, so I'm curious how it would work while prostitution is illegal. The hooker anfem could let us know after she talks to a lawyer.
They are skilled workers that need their work to be valued. I never said the contrary. You did.
If we are talking about women that CHOOSE prostitution they do it because
A) The money (decent looking)
They win enough money not to care about those issues.
B)They cant do anything else.
(Ugly whores, drug addict whores, old whores, desperate unemployed mothers).
These dont care because they have other things to attend or they have such poor income its insult to injury.
I am not saying it wouldnt be good for them but everything around it seem a little strange of because it doent work for the mayority of them.
housewives aren’t sex workers. There just people who marry someone who’s lucky enough to have a job that can afford the cost of living for two or more people on it’s own.
Retail, factory, and construction workers aren't skilled, or at the very least would not be considered such by economists. It's retarded to require workers be skilled to have a union, else we would essentially be barring anyone that isn't a craftsman or certified tradesman from unionizing.
Frankly the bigger question is what purpose would this union serve. From the OP it would seem that a PAC or organization would accomplish her goals without the potential legal hurdles that come with unionizing a segment of workers who are operating illegally and largely anonymously. The IEAU already serves as a union for strippers, pornstars, and porn crew as well and I would assume that if legalized they would probably cover prostitutes as well, though in my quick research it seems both weak and has some wacky ideas like only 21+ should be able to do porn.
Good thead anfem
Yueah, but will they work for free?
How many miles of dick have you sucked?
How many gallons of jizz have you swallowed?
What is the average pressure exerted by your pussy on an average penis?