Question

Hey everyone,

As someone who has always loathed the "far left" I realize I don't much about you guys.

So I am here trying to edu'makate myself.

Few questions:

1) What is it you guys want exactly? The Holla Forums guys want basically Not Socialism.

2) Followup to #1 – how do you achieve your goals, especially with people like me around? I mean … I will never work for free unless I want to, I will never sacrifice me and my family's happiness for others intentionally and in a system where "everyone is equal" I'd quit working.

3) What do you guys want more? Multiculturalism or a Marxist state? It seems by going after both at once you guys are making enemies of not only the nationalists, but the capitalists, the libertarians, conservatives, Christians … basically everyone else around you?

4) Followup to #4 – wouldn't it make more sense to achieve one goal at a time as opposed to trying to do everything all at once?

5) What is with the LGBTQUIAAAABCDEFGHI+++++ bent? It has less than dick to do with your other goals and likely harms them more than helps.

I'm not LARP'ing, but genuinely curious what makes you guys tick, as I've consumed so much of my own cool-aide I cannot even attempt to understand the way you guys think.

read Zizek and Bordiga newfag
and delete this thread and kys

We're like the opposite of Holla Forums here: we want Socialism.

Depends on who you ask. Will involve a radical change to society as a whole you likely can't even fathom right now (I'm like, deep, dude), or will interpret as anuddah shoah if I were to try

Again, depends on who you want. If you ask me for example, multiculturalism is the inevitable shape bourgeois policy under capitalism takes under certain circumstances, and the notion of a "Marxist state" is completely alien to me as something Marxist. We're the enemies of basically everything on the right, and we also like to kill one another too.

Again, "what" one at a time? You made clear in the first post that you don't even know that we are not consistent as a whole varied group here, but that you don't even know what this supposed "goal" is supposed to be for us. Nonetheless, I think it's overarching that many different things must be done away with in order for our goal to actually be achieved, or, more precisely, for it to actually qualify as any change whatsoever.

I'm not fucking reading any of this bullshit. I've read Das Kapital, and I've read the Wealth of Nations. My opinion – both suffer the same flaw.

I want a conversation and a discussion. I am not trying to change minds here, just trying to understand.

what the main theme of the first volume of Kapital?

Holla Forums falseflagging shill detected

You don't even know how we think, which is quite clearly in evidence by asking questions about multiculturalism and LGBTSOCDEM.

1) A synthesis of British and Swedish social democracy circa 1960 in theory, in practice as close to this or the spirit of this as can be wrangled. [This is an abnormal goal]
2) Posting SOCDEM GANG images and telling you to lurk moar because that's a "general motors propaganda leaflet" tier understanding of socialism/communism.
3) Almost nobody here defends "multiculturalism" and only really tankies want a "Marxist state"
Interlude
Translation in practice:
As can be seen by the hilarious phenomenon of free-trade nationalists and so on.
4) No.
5) Liberals, go ask /r/neoliberal because that's someone else's problem. (To actually answer, it's a tangential infestation on - like how a nationalist movement can be infected by libertarians, liberals who want to brand themselves differently can play around with a hammer and sickle without knowing anything about socialism. In some ways I do the opposite: In the longest term my aim is socialism of some sort, but I stick to the definition of social-democracy as those are my immediate, practical aims, despite being to the left of many "socialists" in the British Labour Party.)


Is it…Lilac?

I was here when even Ismail posted on this board faggot

Freedom from economic necessity, freedom from interference by other people, freedom to be myself. Guns. The abolition of the existent. It's like fighting the hydra.

Socialism, a system where the working class controls the means of production.


You would be paid at the same rate as everyone else, thats not the same as getting paid the same as everyone else. You would be paid in labor vouchers you could exchange for goods and services, similar to a movie ticket being exchanged for a movie. If you worked 40 hours for example youd get 40 hours worth of labor vouchers, while a guy who worked only 15 hours would get that much. There would also be a flat tax, directly democratically voted on by the whole population which would be used to fund public services such as healthcare, public transport, mail etc. Although that would be up to people to vote on/decide what level of taxes and public services they wanted in that society.


Mass migration primarily happens because capitalism develops the world unevenly making some countries poor and some rich, also through rich countries invading poor ones like the USA invading the middle east and destabilizing it. In a global socialist system, countries will be mostly equal, therefore there will not be much of an incentive to immigrate, except those small small minority of people who like the novelty of moving to another country like present day western expatriots.


Those are all varieties of the same thing, right wing capitalist ideologies


Some socialists are Christian.For example I am Religion isn’t that relevant, socialism is a political and economic project.


Thats called identity politics, and its more for liberals than actual leftists. Some leftists also do identity politics stuff however here on Holla Forums we choose not to concentrate on that and instead concentrate on foreign policy, war, imperialism, economics, and capitalism vs socialism, rather than culture war issues which are generally considered first world problems.

That's really broad, the opposite of Capitalism, I guess would describe most? Production for use, abolition of privaote property, abolition of money, class, the state etc… would also describe a lot of people here.
Not even trying here man. All of these are unpalatable to the people who support them, 90% of the time they are just spooked. Go find me the nationalist who isn't "muh virtue and values", and has legitimate reasoning behind his nationalism. Pro tip, you can't. Same thing with everything else on that list.
That's a hot take, people don't do things unless they want to if not forced?! Wow!
that's a loaded criticism, like everything else you say. No one wants to sacrifice their families bud.
What system even is that in your mind? Where every one has equal rights under law? When everyone has a Ford truck? That's a pretty broad "system"
I couldn't care less about this either way.
Just no.
Why do we have some faggot LARPing as a genuine poster when they are clearly a roleplayer?! Tempted to delete everything I wrote. I wouldn't reply to this thread anymore, and at least sage if you do.

We want communism as an end goal, a stateless, classless and moneyless society. The transitional period from capitalism to communism is usually called socialism (what Marx called "lower stage of communism"), a state in which the workers own the means of production collectively.

Through a revolutionary vanguard party that seizes the state, dismantles it and erects a new state on its ashes. This is the dictatorship of the proletariat where workers surpress the capitalists.

Strawman, nobody wants that. There is still money in socialism and you'd get rewarded according to your labor. It's a meritocracy. Socialist states don't have unemployment as well, you can look this up.

A "Marxist state" is a little bit of a nonsensical word, as Marxism per se is more descriptive as it is prescriptive. Anyway, it's obviously the latter, a socialist state, like the Soviet Union up until 1956, or, a more contemporary example, Cuba. I don't give a shit about multiculturalism, and the ideologies you listed are all pro-capitalist, so obviously they will be standing against us. However the proletariat is the producing class in society, they have the power over production, which means they can wield tremendous influence over the state in a revolution.

See above, we don't care about liberal talking points.

Don't care, just don't hurt people who like to love differently than you. But LGBTQ+ faggots who's parades get sponsored by Coca-Cola probably get the gulag.

We want people to read books and learn from them.

I want to be wealthier and to have more free time.
Well the plan is that we try to spread our ideas and organize in the hopes that eventually we will get big enough and organized enough that we can just kill whoever is going to try and stop us.
I don't care about multiculturalism.
I like putting my dick in cute boys and traps.

This shit is the cancer that's killing the left

I don't understand.

What did I say that's so objectionable?

Literally nothing WRONG with what he said

yeah, but what he said also isnt socialism in and of itself

What exactly socialism is isn't a question OP asked.

You come over as overly bratty "gibsmedat and fuckbois lmao". As long as capitalism is the ruling ideology you have to put yourself together a little bit or people will dismiss you as infantile

I don't want a tiny percentage of populace to control 99% of means of production. Or wage slavery, or a feudal society. Because it doesn't work and it sucks. I want an anarchosyndicalist society. But everyone here is different, and wants something different. Much like people on Holla Forums, I imagine.


But sacrificing your and your family's happiness for a national goal is exactly what Holla Forums ideologies will ask of you. Will you not sacrifice your children if there's a national draft to protect the borders of a nationalist white ethnostate? "Working for free" is an interesting concept, because that's what people in capitalism do. They work to make someone else money. You don't own anything under capitalism, really, so even sacrificing something under capitalism is rather absurd.
Wouldn't you like to do work you actually like doing? That makes money for you, rather than a bank or an offshore account or a yacht for a person you will never even meet?


Once again, different people want different things. Conservatives might not agree with libertarians, while anarcho-communists will not agree with marxists. Multiculturalism is a buzzword that means literally nothing but the state most capitalist countries in Europe represent to right-wingers. Leftists either want internationalism or not.


Well right now my goal is to get to my friends to drink beer and talk about when we will volunteer at co-op down the street. My dad's current goal is to get to his Labour union meeting. But a revolution, a violent and monumental one, is inevitable. As it will be before, so it shall be again.

LGBTQ shit is a meme designed to trigger the precious little snowflakes of Holla Forums. Most people on here think Idpol is shit. But you are free to argue with 14 year old Tumblr socialists about that shit if you like

We want a society without a state controlling everyone's lives and without a parasitic class of "elites" that leech off of the working class simply because they possess large amounts of wealth. Just as an example, think of trust fund kiddies who never work a day in their life but get a big fat check every month that comes from the labor of people like you.
There's obviously a lot more too it than that, but ending the exploitation of the working class is the central goal
The idea isn't to force anyone to work for free, rather the opposite- the idea is for people to control their workplace and receive the full benefit of their labor instead of some Wall Street douchebag taking most of it.
We don't really care about multiculturalism per se- while the ultimate goal is to get rid of the state and therefore get rid of borders, we also want to eliminate the reasons for mass immigration in the first place- there wouldn't be a refugee problem in Europe right now if western nations (particularly the US) hadn't spent the past few decades funding terrorists and bombing the hell out of the middle east.
We've got no beef with Christians- heck, there have been Christian revolutionary groups like the Sandanistas and the Pope himself has endorsed communism- but the other groups you listed basically support the system that exploits most of them, we want them to understand that there's a better option where they don't have to support a bunch of rich parasites for no good reason.
Our main goal is to change the economic system. While we do generally want to end things like racism and such since it creates artificial divisions between the working class and makes it easier for the ruling class to manipulate people, but those sorts of things are largely considered to be a product of the system itself. The whole concept of a "white race" came about in 17th century Virginia when African slaves and European indentured servants were working together to overthrow their masters, so their masters responded by treating the European servants better and destroying their previous sense of solidarity.
Most of us don't have a problem with gays and just see homophobia as another way of keeping the working class divided and fighting amongst ourselves. Like racism, that sort of identity politics drama is primarily a result of the system, and as such we focus on the system itself instead. Most of the people who obsess over that sort of thing are liberals, not leftists

People usually think that Socialism is "Governement does stuff ::DD"
it's a system that's a transition between capitalism and communism, where the people aka working class controls (democratically) the mean of production aka (private property not personnal property we're not going to Collectivize your toothbrush yet :::DDD )

Communism is a == stateless, classless == society. basically Star Trek

In Capitalisme a good question is why do you work ? to survive (pay rent & food) and then you spend the rest if have some thing left to consumer goods. at this moments you're slave to a wage that keep you for doing anything else than work.
With automation the work load for human will decrease hugly now you're been remplace by a machine and you can no longer support yourself or your family.

you will starve.

don't you want to spend more time with your family without fearing for there futur ? don't you want a better system that reallocated ressource directly to solving problem and not toward profits, why should food , housing , healthcare , eduction & energie be exchanged to profit the few ?

the only thing that you will lose it's your chains.

this

identity politics a cancer that must be purge.

>>>/gulag/

We want to end exploitation. We dont want to be exploited, we dont want to have to exploit others. We want a social and economic system that doesnt condition people to engage in exploitative behavior.

We dont believe exploitation is human nature.

Don't listen to this dumb tanky piece of shit. I like it when people come here, I think you will be one of us soon

1) What is it you guys want exactly? The Holla Forums guys want basically Not Socialism.
Communism, that means production for use, a classless society, no wages and no money.

2) Followup to #1 – how do you achieve your goals, especially with people like me around? I mean … I will never work for free unless I want to, I will never sacrifice me and my family's happiness for others intentionally and in a system where "everyone is equal" I'd quit working.
Why would any of these things be in conflict with communism? And to achieve our goals we will organise and at some point there will be conflict and finally a revolution.

3) What do you guys want more? Multiculturalism or a Marxist state?
Neither.

We just make enemies of the capitalists and the classcucks. And the classcucks are redeemable.

A break with the system itself, especially one like capitalism will need a revolution. But yes to build up a movement there will be waypoints to achieve that heighten the tensions with the capitalist state.

The working class shouldnt be devided among itself. Universalism not idpol is the goal.

lmao

He posts with a tank flag

Nobody actually gives a shit as long as you aren't pride parade tier about it. Otherwise the only people butthurt about it are insane fundies you don't want in your movement anyway>>1897252

An end to injustice and inequality.

Multiculturalism has to come first.

hi Holla Forums

...

wew

...

There's really no point in lying to us.

lol what flaw would that be?

either you're lying or you're operating on 1/4th of a braincell

newfag here, which is the best translation of "das kapital" to purchase (no pdfs pls i like physical books)

in wich prefered langage ?
also polite sage you should have make a new theard

Communism — a society that has become classless and stateless thanks to the collective ownership and democratic control of the means of production. The focus under communism is to reduce necessary labor to a minimum, thereby freeing our lives.

You're mistaken about the content of socialism. It is not about "working for free" or "sacrificing your happiness", it is not about or selflessness. It is about fundamentally changing the way society function to the benefit of the workers and hence mankind. If you are part of the proletariat (i.e. you have to exchange your labor-power for a wage) then socialism is in your rational self-interest because it seeks to ensure that you get to be fully compensated for your labor rather than have capitalists extract surplus-value from your toil.

What do you mean by "multiculturalism" exactly? We oppose the liberal fetishization of diversity which reduces human beings to their racial of ethnic background — we are universalists, we seek to unite workers as a class regardless of their particularities.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Just know that socialists often disagree — sometimes violently — as to what the methods should be employed to reach communism. Most agree however that a revolution is par for the course.

We oppose identity-based discrimination and therefore will never accept anti-gay sentiment or policies; however, we also oppose identity politics — that is, the replacement of class struggle with the competition of interclassist sectoral interests. A gay prole doesn't have the same class interests as a gay bourgeois just because they're both gay, it's that simple.

Apologies, noted for the future. English

1) well-being for all!
2) the worker's seizing the means of production and distributing commodities according to the needs of the people
3) i want communism. culture will grow naturally, and i don't want a state, at least in the anarchist sense.
4) i'm not sure what you mean
5) people can fuck and be fucked however they pleased (provided they have the other person's consent). it is mostly irrelevant to me

whoops forgot my shitposting flag

That's like asking about what doctors do after completing 11 years in medical school