Is the DSA really any good?

Momentum is fucking fantastic. The left wing of DSA is making a power play, and getting people excited about workplace organizing and internationalism again.

Fug, shitposting flag

DSA are the kind of people who say things like "socialism has never been tried"

It's the best chance to advance socialist ideas in the U.S. since the early 1900's. It's kind of annoying to see these threads every other week when they give us a real opportunity to actually DO something instead of just shitposting at each others particular flavor of Leftism and reading theory.

We (and by that I mean leftists in the U.S.) to go full fucking Pan-Leftist in this moment and take advantage of this momentum. Strike while the iron is hot instead of choking out the embers with sectarian arguments and wasting the opportunity.

DSA member here. I'm thinking of leaving after this year's dues expire. It's clear they're not socialist in any meaningful sense on the national level, and the only good things about it come from the local chapters.

Isn't there a big convention in August where the collective platform is being punched up? The ones I've seen passed around look promising.

triggered

Aren't you supposed to be doing nothing?

Forgot to take off flag.

They tweeted how they were against communism

Yeah, but the social democrats wield most of the power. I'm not going to be optimistic for the sake of optimism.

I was not yet a leftcom when I joined

A fresh one.

...

I'm glad GMiL is mocking leftists again. The anti-Democrat comics were pretty boring.

you forgot to sage

...

Exactly. Both major slates (DSA Praxis and DSA Momentum) both represent the left of the organization. It won't look the same after the convention.

I haven't seen the Praxis platform. Got a link?

Nvm, found it.
dsapraxis.org/#platform-section
They seem to be a little more on the identity side of things, while Momentum is decidedly materialist.

Soc Dem is great for incrementalism

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Comrade, this is the best we're gonna get here in burgerstan. And not gonna lie, their platform ain't too shabby.

this is funny considering in that junior debate the toilet paper usa guy got really spergy about how much the dsa guy praises lenin

i agree with you, im shitting on tankies not understanding that it's harder to build a leftist movement under the most powerful right-wing government on the planet

What the fuck is even going on in the second comic? How does the 3rd panel connect to the last two?

Well you see, demsocs are liberal so therefore when they win they will act like liberals. You can tell that they'll act like liberals when they take power because they're demsocs

Learn some history

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Syriza

I like how the D transforms into a P.

...

good thing none of that is a thing true to the dsa outside your imagination

Explain to me how they want to abolish capitalism. I want you to find an actual statement of them criticizing commodity production or value or at least distancing themselves from social democracy. #resistcapitalism and #billionairessuck don't count

You're the one that made the claim they want to reform capitalism. Support your claim instead of moving the goalposts

dsausa.org/about_dsa

They even say they want market mechanisms lol

...

yes actually

you realize of course this is the same line that capitalist apologists use to misrepresent the nature of capitalism and say "well capitalism is just any trade whatsoever"?

market mechanisms can aid in planning and organizing an economy. it can still be a classless society. also why don't you look deeper in that page and see they only support specific reforms that help build socialism.

I agree. I won't mind if some get elected, but they are extremely limited in their view. R.L Stephens though, who is on the slate, is pretty great and rejects intersectionality as anti-marxist.

I think DSA momentum will win and for good reason.

No, it's just Marxism. Cornerstone of capitalism is production for exchange.

You seem to be conflating a lot here

Article II of their fucking Constitution, you mung
ECONOMIC PLANNING

Jesus, user. The cornerstone of capitalism is the employer-employee relationship in which the employer forces the employee to produce a surplus which is then appropriated by the employer.
This is what makes it distinct from slavery, which also produced for exchange but was not capitalism.
And feudalism, which also produced for exchange, but was not capitalism.
And whatever the fuck the USSR was, which also produced for exchange but was neither capitalism nor socialism.
Words have meanings, and you don't get to just make shit up. The production for exchange is isn't mething that is a part of, BUT IS NOT THE ENTIRETY OF, capitalism.

None of this bullshit is socialism, you gotta try harder. Even nazis advocate for planning and fulfilling the needs of "the people". When do they say anything about the abolition of value and commodity production? When do they talk about the end of the state and markets? When do they use Marx's analysis? If they don't, they are just liberals, sorry.

...

Lmao, this is why unlike yugoposter i declined to go down this rabbit hole. Basically any time the DSA comes up, some retard says "hurr you mean the people who say they love hillary and want better capitalism and think socialism is when the government does stuff?". Which is such an obvious strawman it's barely worth responding to much less seriously addressing. But actually pointing out what an obvious strawman it is impossible without someone asking where they transcribed the exact works of marx on their site. Give me a fucking break

It's not about that retard, he'll never change. It's about the dozen redditors that will come here, see a thread about DSA, and read it to try to learn something. If you let the retard go unchecked, all they learn is retarded shit.

The fact that you claim something doesn't mean it's true. The nazis weren't socialist and the same goes for China, Bernie and the DSA. None of their goals are revolutionary, it's pure petit bourgeois succdem trash filled with moralism, a pitiful last attempt to save capitalism. It's not a matter of definitions, it's about actually understanding capitalism and communism.
Parties like the DSA belong to the left wing of the reaction.

This shit is reminding me that I haven't even bothered to have a sit down chat with my chapter's delegate to the convention yet. He said he was a Hoxhaist one time but I'm not sure if he was being ironic or not.

Also this

So capitalism existed during Plato's time?

This is the best post in the entire thread. I will never understand why people fail to grasp the fact that NOBODY expects the DSA to start a socialist revolution. We expect them to push the American public further to the left. If DSA catches on, we will finally have an America in which liking single payer is no longer seen as some radical concept.

...

/thread

if you're against DSA, specially after the election, then you might as well just get real comfortable in your armchair because you're never going to do anything other than post.

Yeah, because social democrats have so many "achievements" under their belt am I right?

Yes, they're actually good and you should join it. Politics is a collective activity.

Liberals get out and jack off to your Clinton fanfiction

Incrementalism is what led to the rise of fascism in America you fucking idiot.

no.

lmao how about joining an actual fucking communist/socialist party

You won't be laughing when I seize and burn your armchair, your worthless lump

DSA is just a CIA front. They want to siphon members away from actual socialist organizations.
The reason why the Soviet Union fell was because they were embracing Social Democracy like in Europe and allowing internationalist organizations like Esperantists to flourish.

Such as? Give examples.

Pretty sure you'd find a good amount of people who agree with Lenin's theory (minus the vanguard perhaps) in DSA

There isn't a single one meaningfully to the left of the current DSA make up. Not SAlt, not ISO, and regardless of what tankies will tell you not the PSL either.

PSL probably, coming from the tankie

But they're too busy writing propoganda pieces about Venezuela to be an actual leftist party so

They're all sucking DSA's dick, hoping to steal members for muh vanguard.

Then you still agree there are no "better" leftist orgs.

No user, there's no need to devote ourselves to defending USSR anymore, especially since it has been nearly 30 years since it lost to Pizza Hut. Nobody really cares that Kulaks hoarded dem grains a century ago, just take what lessons you can from USSR and flush the memories of that country down the drain because it's 2017.

PSL is probably the most decent organizations, but they are constrained due to the conditions in this country.
The revolution will probably not start here anyway.

He'd rather angrily wring his hands and reassure himself of "SOMEDAY" than trying to do anything now to attempt to even slightly make things better for the poor and working class now, simply because it's not the ideal outcome achieved closer to immediately.

Probably not, but that doesn't mean it's not worth your time to marginally improve workers' lives here, and put some focus on anti-imperialism in the first world if that's your concern.

DemSocs will work with Democrats to overturn any real grassroots democracy.
There has never been a successful movement that reformed the Democratic Party. DSA's methods have failed for the past 30 years.
Once the "momentum" of the Vermont Succdem is over with, DSA will continue to endorse Corey Booker and Chelsea Clinton to avoid the evils of Trump/Pence/Ryan, etc.

Don't lecture me about my own fucking country, you reddit spacing little cocksuck. Fascism is not a mainstream political current, even less so after the election. Even if you were correct, incrementalism has literally nothing to do with Trump. He only won because Clinton was an unappealing cunt.

So we should take those possible assumed and instead choose the possible assumed longterm outcomes of an organization like PSL who doesn't have a damn thing to show for their efforts either?

The "DSA is just socdems" and "they work for democrats" are weak memes with no basis in reality. They are not attempting to reform the Democratic Party in any way, shape or form, and their current electoral strategy has no ties to the Democrats other than that they are willing to run their own members in Democratic primaries "when appropriate". My own local chapter is currently running 3 independent candidates and no dems, and the last several events have broken with the "vermont succdem" in both messaging and goals.

Also the last part is straight up bullshit and even you know it. Why the fuck would an organization that refused to endorse hillary endorse chelsea or booker? I can talk to you in good faith but if you're just going to talk in memes it's not worth it.

lmao

Explain this meme.

herp, meant for

I don't even know myself. Not that guy but I did a research-centric major in college so I did a lot of notes. I've always put spacing between paragraphs or chunks of text with different points. I did it in a vidya thread once and somebody tried to refute my post by saying "reddit spacing". I guess only people on reddit make their shit easier to read? I don't know man.

That's true though. All they want is capitalism with a human face.

that's like a three year old graphic made by one guy in some chapter.

Even that shit-ass graphic doesn't say they want capitalism. And like said it's old as shit and largely irrelevant except for people online grasping desperately for anything to shitfling at new DSA members.

It does. It implies that Marx was an edgy liberal, who didn't like rich people and believed in intersectionality (!).
And I still haven't seen any proof that they are socialists.

No it doesn't. Feel free to quote.
There is no criteria that would ever convince you of this anyway.

Reddit spacing makes things an eyesore to read. For example:

Hello, fellow leftists!

I am from r/socialism

I am used to reddit only so I now double space everything I write

This is not good formatting

People wouldn't even mind reddit spacing if redditors didn't ruin everything they migrate to

Redditors are hated and by proxy reddit spacing because their posts are typically full of condescension. This happens because they are not used to sites where "nigger" and "faggot" are used casually. As such, they tend to go into pearl clutch mode. In addition to shitting up threads with pearl clutching, they generally create low quality threads. The rarely lurk for a sufficient amount of time. This is why reddit spacing is despised.

TL;DR: Reddit spacing is hated because redditors are low quality posters

I have used image boards for a decade if not longer now and I have always spaced my posts when I feel a paragraph break helps improve readability.

Fuck off with your shitty meme and critique the content of the post itself.

I don't space between sentences. I was told I had "reddit spacing" because I put a space between paragraphs in a long text. It's one of those things that's been used to a point where it seems like it doesn't even mean anything.

Retard, I space my paragraphs too. Redditors use spacing excessively though. They use it in contexts where it doesn't improve readability and is not necessary.
That's what I already fucking do. Like I said, the reason reddit spacing is hated is because of the content of the post that it is used in.

The person who screeches "reddit spacing" at a break in paragraphs is obviously moronic. Never once have I called a space in paragraphs "reddit spacing"

tl;dr leddit uses markdown for formatting, which sometimes requires inserting empty lines where they won't appear in the resulting text. I hope this helps.

If you're having doubts about DSA's socialist cred, listen to Discourse Collective's episode on DSA Momentum soundcloud.com/discoursecollective/episode-51

DSA's paper Jacobin can't go a single fucking week without begging Trump to send weapons to terrorists in Syria or blaming Maduro for CIA sabotage, I'll take PSL's paper over that fucking rag.

They can't go a week without jerking off to Lenin and 1917, and the DSA has a strict #handsoffvenezuela/#handsoffsyria position.

This is not only an oxymoron, but it is explicitly anti-Marxist and anti-intellectual. It is the job of Marxists to examine history and use it as a lesson for the future. The USSR and Maoist China are the biggest event in the entire history of communism, and we must constantly think about and examine their example if we are to call ourselves Marxists.

see:

If they're so strict, why haven't they purged the editors of Jacobin yet, huh? Don't make me laugh.

Source for an article that does this?

I'm not sure you understand the structure of Jacobin or DSA, much less how they intersect.

Anyway I'd still like to see an article where they ask Trump to bomb Syria. Seems like a pretty obvious lie.

jacobinmag.com/2017/04/syria-assad-russia-united-states-humanitarian-imperialism-militarism-gourevitch/
>Why is there no clear condemnation of Russian and Iranian intervention in Syria, without which the Assad government would have collapsed?
>Why was there no mention of the fact that Washington blocked Syrian opposition access to anti-aircraft weaponry, without which the regime was free to rain bombs on them?
>It is simply unacceptable to stand by and see a brutal regime like Assad’s get away with emptying Syria of its own people.

jacobinmag.com/2017/07/syria-chemical-attack-assad-trump

1. Bhaskar Sunkara, the editor and owner of Jacobin, is a vice-chair of the DSA. He should be removed from the DSA if they want any anti-war credibility.
dsausa.org/leadership_positions_opportunities
2. The DSA should remove Jacobin from all promotional materials, propaganda, and reading assignments, so as to not promote a blatant CIA propaganda outlet.
3. The DSA and its members should openly denounce the blatant CIA propaganda being published in Jacobin. They have a position of publicity and popularity, and as a result they don't have the option of staying silent while Jacobin receives widespread "left wing" credibility.
4. #2 and #3 can be avoided if Bhaskar Sunkara agrees to step down, Jacobin adopts a hard editorial line against pro-war shilling, and they rescind all offending articles. Highly unlikely though.

Yeah pretty much what I expected. Don't agree with the articles but I have lost all patience for the pearl clutching that happens when someone comes in with a naive anarkiddie "all sides are bad" take and someone like you histrionically turns it into BACKSTABBING SOCDEMS ASK TRUMP TO BOMB SYRIA. After all is said and done, what I said stands in that DSA has a strict anti-interventionist stance, under Trump or otherwise. The writings of a naive left-liberal or two do nothing to change this.

The rest of your post only follows if you believe that:

1. Any of the articles you linked me in any way articulate a stance remotely similar to "Trump or the US in general should intervene in Syria"
2. That Sankara is personally responsible for these articles
3. That it is reasonable to demand a radical restructuring to immediately oust Sankara when the organization is in the midst of top to bottom elections to radically restructure the organization as is.

And that's without even touching the CIA stuff, which is Phil Greaves tier.

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The authors of those articles are not anarchists. Actually, many anarchists IRL wouldn't be this fucking stupid. One article specifically implies:
This is absolutely inexcusable. If you think this is OK, you are a backstabber yourself. That's not even getting into the "Iraq WMDs 2.0" article, which again, is inexcusable. I'm not clutching pearls. I want this kind of imperialist propaganda to be viciously suppressed in the left.

They do.

He is. It's his magazine and his editorial line.

Socialism isn't "reasonable," it's revolutionary. I agree that the DSA is going through a lot of changes! I hope that they change into a real socialist party and they purge imperialists like Bhaskar Sunkara. Until they do, they are not credibly anti-war.

remember, only liberals make tasteless jokes

I can agree we should "examine history and use it as a lesson for the future", but I cannot agree we must constantly think about them and make them our priority as many MLs and mautists do, especially since I don't really see there's much to examine about USSR's anymore.

I know I might have been hyperbolic, all I mean is that we should be constantly thinking about all history and contemporary events. Of course you shouldn't be limited only to the USSR and China.

I don't use anarkiddie to refer to all anarchists any more than I would use tankie to refer to all MLs, except in bants. In this case I have no idea what the two authors believe outside of these articles (though my guess, which I articulated, is that they're merely left liberals) but used anarkiddie to compare it to what naive anarchists who I don't believe are CIA or cointel will often express.

*…least FAVORITE leftists and leftist critiques…

It is fucking dangerous, because it will lead to a mass ethnic cleansing of Christians, Shia, Alawi, and secular Muslims.=
It would mean an extra 8 million or more refugees. Jesus fucking christ. Kill yourself my man. This statement alone makes the rest of your post invalid.

If you have to cut out half of a sentence I posted to make your point seem like a good response, perhaps reconsider that response first. Otherwise you seem dishonest

I didn't remove anything of substance. Fuck off.

Yes you did. My point was very clear to any non-histrionic, objective reader. Without a specific call to action, their wishes for the collapse of the syrian state amounts to nothing more than virtue signaling. This is not the same stance as saying I wish to see the collapse of the Syrian state, but you had to remove half of my sentence to make it seem like that's what I was saying because you're a liar and a coward too afraid to defend your positions honestly.

No I didn't. There is nothing substantial in your meaningless argumentative hedge.

Fuck off to reddit and kill yourself.

Yes you did, and I even explained what you excised and how it changed the meaning you lying piece of shit.

My problem is that this approach to history and theory in general feels like it is separate from the practice and perhaps even eclipsing the theory related to the sensuous human activity rather than being a reference to it, which translates to many communist orgs being historical reenactment groups and optionally cheerleaders for abroad countries as a habit from the bygone era.

We probably had a similar debate last thread about teaching people theory. I believe the conclusion was, the vanguard and all active people should be educated as much as possible, while accepting that the masses can't and won't learn or care very much about the theory beyond the basics. I think the same obviously goes for the history.
I think the correct approach for a communist is to have intense debate and education over the history of communism inside the party/cadre/movement, and promote aggressively modern propaganda to the masses.
By the way, Socialist Cuba still exists, and stands as a surprisingly excellent propaganda point for socialism even today. I don't know why, but many liberals will very readily concede the achievements of Cuba, and it's a great entry point. So you really don't have to delve into any deep or foreign history to give people examples of socialism.

>>>/reddit/

Both assert their anti-intervention stance. Jacobin is a platform without a strict line. It is far from a smear of Hersh.

Bhaskar Sunkara supports DSA Momentum. In their platform they call for the abolition of vice and honorary chairs. He is a vice chair. He advocates for his elevated position in DSA to end. He took it out of his twitter bio as well.

I disagree with both those Jacobin pieces and Ashley Smith. But tankies over exaggerate the shit about how bad Jacobin is.

It childish and dishonest to blame Maduro's failures solely on the CIA. It's literal propaganda from the Left. We need to be honest about what went wrong with Maduro while also opposing intervention constantly. If you don't think that's possible than say it.

These are fucking ancient. Stop pushing the smallest flaws in pre-2016 organization.

The actual Jacobin editorial staff members involved in DSA, including Bhaskar, are to the left of DSA and have the best vision for it. They are all in support of DSA Momentum as well. Jacobin is a positive influence on DSA.

Jacobin is cryptolib trot bullshit

We may as fucking well elect American Solidarity. At least they admit they're Merkel tier cucks.

You know most people know when they've embarrassed themselves publicly and just shut the fuck up before it gets worse. Keep going big boy

No it's not, and the post you're replying to is about how Bhaskar and the other Jacobin affiliates involved in DSA are well to the left of the average of Jacobin

Which is complete bullshit contradicted by the actual articles.

so they should just invite McCain for a guest editorial and get it over with.

It's a fucking smear, it calls him a conspiracy theorist and not even worth taking seriously. Oh yeah, if it isn't worth taking seriously, that's why it gets a giant article in Jacobin.

If we are Marxists, we have to learn from fucking history. And history (Chile) shows that, yes, we should blame the CIA.

I'm not the user you are replying to. Neither of these articles appear in the print mag. Why should I care about the online only stuff?

The online only articles cover such a broad range, including the cryptoneocon trot stuff you posted, but mostly are just poor quality and very lib-esque. The real meat of the magazine is the print edition which is really good and not a bad price for the sub.

Current Affairs is even better but usually a little less content per mag.

dsausa.org/the_case_for_solidarity_with_the_syrian_revolution_dl

oooh my god

>dsausa.org/the_case_for_solidarity_with_the_syrian_revolution_dl
>dsausa.org/the_case_for_solidarity_with_the_syrian_revolution_dl
>dsausa.org/the_case_for_solidarity_with_the_syrian_revolution_dl
Isn't that funny? Just yesterday idiots ITT were arguing that Jacobin's pro-intervention editorial stance wasn't a problem for the DSA. And now DSA allows this imperialist garbage to be posted on their site.

Let me say it again:
THE TASK OF ANY GENUINE SOCIALIST IN THE DSA CONVENTION IS EITHER TO PURGE THE IMPERIALISTS, OR TO SPLIT.
That's it. Those are the two options. Imperialists and socialists can't coexist in the same organization. And nobody can defend the DSA until they have purged the imperialists.

Note: Individually signed posts do not necessarily reflect the views of DSA as an organization or its leadership. Democratic Left blog post submission guidelines can be found here.

They post pro and against of literally everything. For leaving the SI, against leaving the SI. etc. etc.

GTFO about splitting

DSA is on a roll today.

PURGE THE IMPERIALISTS OR YOU ARE AN IMPERIALIST.

You fucking idiot, it's not up for debate. DSA should not allow people to argue for regime change anywhere on their site. Not in editorials, not in their fucking forums.

Eh, the Trump thing is nominally worth speaking out against. If DSA devoted a single resource outside of twitter to fight it then it's another thing.

We need to alienate the ruling class, not active duty military personnel.

Their feed is full of this shit.
twitter.com/QueerDSA
Literally "WE NEED MORE GAY CRUISE MISSILES"

Actually, active duty military personnel need to die or desert.

Independent of the trans thing, what's your stance on groups like RNR actively recruiting from disaffected service members?

No, you can't. READ. You can't hide behind the CIA forever, social democrats have fucked up every time and in great part by themselves.

Is not anywhere close to

Any member of the US military is an enemy of the working class. The fight against any enemy is two-pronged: to beat and kill them, and to demoralize them. Recruiting veterans and getting soldiers to defect is the latter part. However, we must never lose sight of the fact that the US military is the enemy, and we must not excuse a single act done in service to it. Moreover we must be vocal and clear about our position. The only soldiers worth "bringing to our side" are the ones who recognize that they have done something inexcusable, and that they have served the most murderous organization on the planet.

It's not about blame you stupid imperialist fuck. The more you post, the more you make actual communists hate the DSA. Nice going.

You can calm way the fuck down. All I said was that their argument isn't what was being presented. Also, unlike you I'm guessing, I'm not even from burgerstan so the whole "imperialist fuck" thing is some sick projection. This was even my first post on this thread so I'm not sure what "the more you post" means.

I agree with all of this, but I think that this is an event that can be used to sow distrust of the US military among naive liberals. I'm simply agnostic as to what the best messaging to do that would be but I'm convinced the opportunity is there.

That statement is true though

Both you and the person you're arguing with managed to be completely wrong. Incredible

Same as it ever is:
Don't risk your life for the sake of corporate profits.
Don't kill innocent people for the sake of corporate profits.
You won't see longlasting benefits for your service, and you will be discarded to the streets.
Your "enemy" is a worker just like you.
Don't be the enemy of workers just like you.
If you insist on being the enemy of the workers, you will die.

Internationalism is a concerstone of socialism you brain dead tankie

in regards to the military: does everyone here selectively forget the russian revolution?

I'm not a fan of the trans decision today if that's what you're alluding to but the argument against the US military specifically is that it is uniquely imperialist over the last century. The idea that the US military is comparable to the russian one circa the revolution is facile.

The vast majority of US soldiers are deeply indoctrinated, bloodthirsty fascists. They have never fought, and never will fight, a war against an imperialist country of equal power to the US. They sit in their cozy bases chucking bombs at the natives and crying crocodile tears when some guerrilla five hundred meters away gets a lucky shot and kills someone. It will be impossible to recruit more than 20% of veterans or defectors, max. Prepare accordingly.

What DSA members really need is just a quick history of Socialism, and its differences from Social Democracy. Most really just don't know.

Which is why I prefer to keep encouraging knowledgable socialists to take the opportunity to join. The organization as it stands now is like half-new, and growing so rapidly that most people in the org now weren't in it a year ago. And unlike entryism in the Dems the DSA has allegiance only to the members who donate. At least I prefer that to complaining about Harrington or how there are still liberals in the org (no shit, but it's shifted leftwards).

Knowledgeable socialists should join an actual socialist party. There is no point in practicing entryism on a powerless organization.

We keep circling around this issue. Such as?

PSL.

DSA members are well meaning people who are open to discourse and education. Just go and fucking talk to them instead of sitting around. It's best to affect the organization now while it's still relatively small scale.

There's hope for a more revolutionary DSA

lol

They did kill Rosa. In fact they know they killed her!

DSA members are absolutely worth talking to, for the purpose of radicalizing them further and getting them to join a real party.

The PSL is a joke. Give it up. There are no "good communist parties" in the US there are only ones with potential

By whose metric? Jodi Dean seems to think it's good.

...

ignore all the morons whining about them being socdems or reformists, they have plenty of factions and the people in there are pretty diverse, from tankies to anarchists to leftcoms, they're not a political party and so are less subjugated to the usual bullshit with parties. they have a libertarian socialist caucus if you're one, pretty dope.

who the fuck cares about jodi dean?

Better than the current shit yes. /thread

lmao the tankies are having a meltdown in this thread. How did the DSA piss them off?

everyone's mad, including me, that they posted a shit fucking opinion article on their site from one of their oldfag socdem members about how Actually, Al Qaeda Is Good.

Hell I'm pissed the fuck off and I'm in this thread defending the DSA and am part of the org. Take it as you will but imo it's pretty natural autistic screeching to be expected when the org is being (or at least perceived to be in the process of being) dragged to the left.

They are a good controlled opposition.

They deserve pretty ruthless criticism for this. But calls to split or not join because of this are insane. It doesn't represent anyone's opinions but the two who posted it. They are trying to build a mass multi-tendency socialist party. If you can't handle growing pains and a single state department-line blog post, you clearly have no interest in revolution or building socialism in our time.

im part of the org too and i am screeching hard as fuck

fug i will be so glad when a "democratic socialist" military drops an a-bomb instead of a filthy capitalist one!

kys

I do, she's the commie mommy.

If they don't get rid of this shit after the convention, the only sane option for actual communists is to leave DSA.

This man would LITERALLY kill Rosa if he got the chance. Do not join any organization that lets him stay in. If you do, you will either get stabbed in the back, or you will stab the workers of the world in the back.

...

I agree with all of this except his personal niceness to the imperialist scum.

Holla Forums, twitter, and almost all MLs are politically impotent and have little to no praxis outside of internet propaganda. internationally, it is different.

DSA apologists right now.

Is there a non-idpol leftist party in the USA?

SEP, but they're trots.

Thanks, I prefer trots over idpols.

Smells of opportunism

Capitalism doesn't simply equal markets and trade, but it is the economic system in which production is primarily centered around selling on a market. Don't simplify the theory so much and you'll be able to avoid dumb miscommunications evolving into a complete break or split.

Honestly thanks, your posts and arguments with other posters has cleared me of any delusions about Yugoslavia or Market Socialism

eat a dick if she was living in russia during the civil war she'd be shot too

watching m-l's ree over demsucc shitting on their dead worthless ideology is priceless

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expected nothing else, now lean back in your arm chair and rub one off on a soviet flag rag.