Why do people dislike Trotsky?

Why do people dislike Trotsky?

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Stalinoids dislike him because "MUH HISTORICAL ENEMY, AKSHUALLY FASCISM!!!!", others dislike him because his retarded followers and the fact that, should you read his writings when he was in parliament and what he did during the civil war, he was just as authoritarian as Stalin and would have repeated many of his actions.

What's to like? His theory was all over the place, his peers didn't think very highly of him or his character (regardless of what you think of Stalin), and after the revolution he just didn't accomplish much. Given that his greatest accomplishment is "not being Stalin" I just don't see the point to him.

Because they haven't read him or know much about russian politics precivil war.

One thing is he constantly shat on the Soviet Union. This is what drove most German communists away from the USSR when he met with them as a foreign diplomat.

Probably because the trots infamously turned into neo-conservatives because they hated Stalin so much. In fact, they seem to hate a lot of revolutionary movements.

Anarchists hate him because of Kronstadt and also because he was worse than Stalin in many ways with regards to bureaucracy. Tankies dislike him because he was a political saboteur who helped bolster anti-communist "public intellectuals" in the west.

If your faith requires you to believe whatever is written in your holy book, then ignoring the parts that you don't like makes the whole exercise useless.

Are you in the wrong thread or are you making some really cryptic anti-tankie point I'm not understanding here?

His only contribution to the communist movement was cultism, splitting, and rape

This thread is about Trotsky, not Trots

Sorry, wrong thread.

That's it Stalinists I'm splitting from this board.

i like trotsky.

He aided early neocons.

his academic work is flawless, if you ask me.

He died trying to express "critical support" for the exact people that killed him.

made me chuckle

Because he looks like Colonel Sanders

Trotskyism = Stalinism for normies

REMEMBER KRONSTAT.

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Changed the secret gravy recipe to make more profit.

Every ideology has a reason to hate him

imperialism is still imperialism even if you do it for a cause you think is good

also socialism in one country can totally work

he's a Jew

I've never read Trotsky but the books he wrote look very interesting. Any recommendations?

People who hate Trotsky overwhelmingly haven't read him

He would have been worse than Stalin. Also remember Kronstadt.

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If you read Trotsky you will realize that he was basically Stalin but even more obsessed with hiearchies. That being said militant internationalism > socialism in one country.

Yeah because the still largely unindustrialized USSR could totally stomach another war against half the world

And the Free Territory.

Spreading the revolution is imperialism? Okay, porky.

Cause he was the tankie who was against tankies and my comrade. Long live the International

Literally founded SJW.

It's easy to LARP as a supporter of someone until you imagine what it would be like to be under his command.

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because he spawned shit like this

Fascists and anti-semites get the wall.

Tankies are mad about opposing Stalin, anarchists are mad about Kronstadt. Most other leftists like the man himself, but dislike his followers, who are prone to cultish behavior, rape scandals, and most infamously, constant and crippling splits.

But I hate all religions equal. Would I get the wall too? :(

anti-semitism =/= anti-judaism

Of course not, I hate judaism but I don't have anything against the Jews as a group/race.

my biggest problem with him is his opposition to collectivization
this is like a litmus test for me
if you have some second thoughts about expropriating petit bourgs, then sorry mate, but you're not my comrade

He was a historical figure and most of the stupid shit he did were almost entirely a product of his context (same with Lenin or even Stalin, really, nobody is just this "demon"), but still: theoryandpractice.org.uk/library/notes-trotsky-pannekoek-bordiga-gilles-dauvé-jean-barrot-1972.

Man was even more collectivization happy than Stalin, Stalin was at least willing to wait and see with the NEP, Trotsky constantly whined about it from the very start.

mate, while collectivization campaign was going on Trotsky was whining how it is too soon, how party needs to take it slow and in general he was spewing bukharin talking points

90% of the time where Bukharin was alive and supporting the NEP, so was Stalin. The other 10% of the time featured Bukharin still supporting NEP but not Stalin, while Stalin also had Bukharin persecuted and killed for doing so.

deeds speak better than words

Then why bring up what they were saying rather than what they were doing? Are you saying that Stalin was "only pretending" to support NEP whenever he did, and that killing Bukharin was "just a prank" now that all Bukharin could do Re: NEP was be supportive of it in words while rotting in a cell?

I mean NEP was also pretty objectively the better and more humane mode of capitalism socialism in one country than collectivization ended up being, and Stalin's actions to secure this collectivization changed the face of the party and how authority was exercised for good: ascension towards completely depostic decentralized centralization of power in the State and NKVD essentially made "revisionism" an inevitablity, now that everything the party was going to do was just going to be reflective of those in the high tower.

Stalin, as many in the party, supported NEP while they thought it could work
but money scissors crisis of late 20s and in general struggling with industrialization and rising unemployment convinced many people in the party that NEP was done for

kek, scratch a rabid anti-Stalinist and a capitalist shill bleeds

Stalin was a party animal, yo.

It never ceased to rofl. Capitalism never does.

And not the biggest engineers like Bukharin, who were so fucking intelligent they put an entire Austrian school of bourg economics out of work unlike the manlet Stalin whose best achievements until then were chauvinizing the party and fucking with Trotsky almost as if just for the lulz, and in the future would be fucking up doing capitalism in Russia right.

Scratch Lenin and Bukharin the "anti-capitalist" NEP shills how? Full jej.

Tell me, are you the same guy who said left communists are Dengists based on le ebin "do nothing" memes I made in Paint when I was drunk and this similar bright mind of yours? I can understand how much you like inefficient and inhumane versions capitalism now.

you're exaggerating
Sraffa was the one who really put marginalism out of work

also, nice cocksucking skill, ultra

wew, what a great argument

really dude
he defended Tsaritsyn
he was an old party member who had years of organizing experience behind his back
he robbed banks to raise funds for the cause for fuck's sake

he knew how to do a bureaucratic work, he was fucking good at it

for you ultras everything is capitalism

please contain your autism
Lenin made clear that NEP was a temporary policy to recover from the civil war
stick with it and you'll get Dengism

funny that you mention, for all your NEP shilling you should love Deng, because his policy was basically a China's NEP

but no, I'm not that user who wronged you

He just gave it the last nudge it needed, and being the bourgeois economist the neo-Ricardian Sraffa was now everyone noticed just how dead marginaloids really were already.

Credit where credit is actually due, and Bukharin's cock is outside of doing capitalism properly also worthy of sucking because of such amazing texts like ABC of Communism. I mean, a single passage of that text not just makes me want to swallow his cock whole, but also mastefully BTFOs Stalin's later notions of "socialism", too, let's observe:
(From chp. 3, par. 19: § 1Characteristics of the communist system. Production unde communism)

To secure the the future maintenance of capitalism in a shittier way.

Not as old as Bukharin, still a manlet BTW.

Gotta fund that future crapitalism somehow, and he probably attempted to spend some on that sweet Rogaine and a copy of "Getting Taler for Dummies", too. Also gotta love that sudden loss of hatred for lumpen-tier activity. I mean I already disagreed with Marx on lumpens, but Lenin went even further. What happened, Joe?

Private property and commodity production never hitherto being done away with tends to lead to such a conclusion, but yuh.

I reserve that right, thank you.

Did he, or do we notice in the fourth letter of the post-'21 new Comintern line Lenin mentioning that the NEP would be the future of Russian capitalism until international revolution (not "socialism" in one country, jej) was once more possible?

There are factory councils and working class representation under Dengism? Overjej. I guess that neo-tankie conspiracy is true: once China produces their Star Trek replicators with "Made in China" on them we'll have Full Communism(tm)!