DPRK general

Not at all, Kim Jong Il was the one who was revisionist. His only accomplishment was to overcome the Arduous March in the 90s (famine) and to evolve a nuclear deterrence program after they weren't any longer under the Soviet nuclear umbrella. Apart from that, under his rule central planning was neglected, markets emerged, and all he did was doing his songbun Policy in which the entire economy is serving the military. National Defense Commission was dislodged from the civil government, but had the prerogative to extract as much value from it as it wants. Under Kim Jong Un, National Defense Commission was renamed State Affairs Commission and was merged with the Cabinet, so now there is no longer a dichotomy between a neglected civil government and a military government. This is a good thing.

Regarding his policy, Kim Jong Un has repeatedly said he wants to go back to byungjin, which is a term for the original - Stalinist - policy of his grandfather Kim Il Sung. He's been purging cronies of his father as well. This is a rather good development.

If Kim had done nothing though the South Korean government probably would have collapsed on its own.

Also, I don't know why you draw comparisons to Krushshev. Krushchev had like almost no support amongst the population. And again, I don't see how the DPRK could collapse anytime soon unless they are getting nuked.

DPRK was really, really close to collapse I the mid-90s, but they made it and their policy of self-reliance pays off.

Interesting. Removal or weakening of songbun can only be a good thing IMO. Do you know how leader-centric decisionmaking is in actuality? Confucean ideology and thus Juche does support a strong leader and a strict paternalistic hierarchy.

Because Kruschev was also the third leader and turned to consumer product orientation to manufacture legitimacy. Also away from stalinism but you claim that Jong-un is turning back to stalinism so I'm not so sure.
Yea, though how self-reliant they are really is a matter of speculation. If there is a collapse I doubt it will be of the popular kind - some kind of a palace revolution followed by political fragmentation and maybe balkanisation seems like a more likely scenario right now. That requires serious lessening of the unifying outside threat though, which might be on the way if the new SK leadership moves towards dialogue and manages to stick a damp cloth in Trump's mouth and the neocon establishment. Or if NK nuclear capacity solves the most pressing security dilemma.

So the covert US occupation would have become an overt US occupation?

Well, not if NK had been able to seize the advantage and seize the country semi-diplomatically and with no resistance. But becoming the evil commie aggressor that the US wanted them to be was a tactical error IMO. Of course, the USSR boycotting the UN at that time was an even bigger error but that's by the by.

Being evil commies is more than enough, aggression can be manufactured if necessary - re Gulf of Tonkin.

You think the Americans would have been "oh ok I guess we go home then"? That seems… unlikely to me.

No idea. How would anybody know? What I've read though is that he replaced a lot of his father's cronies with younger thinkers.

Yeah even though I don't really believe that late stalinism was not focused on providing consumer goods to the people. I think Krushchev was full of shit. In case of the DPRK, you should realize that they are in desperate need of providing at least a remotely similar consumer experience to their population, everything else is just not feasible. They are on focusing on joint venture firms with China (and recently, Egypt) which for example introduced Smartphones in the DPRK. An interesting read about new consumerism in North Korea:

38north.org/2017/04/rfrank040617/

I don't really see these things as revisionist. They are clearly focusing on local production and allocation through cooperatives. I mean, you can't really expect them to evolve everything on their own, the special economic zones are a necessity, but it is important to remember that most of the economy is still state-owned, centrally planned in the key industries and cooperatively organized locally yet still integrated into the Local People's Committee, so unions, cooperatives and other shit are partaking in the national economic planning as well. I of course don't know how serious Kim is with his reference to byungjin, but I am pretty confident that it will result in more finetuning and micromanagement of the centrally planned economy. Some rural areas still haven't reached 100% electrification.

Inadvisable, Kim Jong Un is indeed really popular, even western sources grudgingly admit that:

thediplomat.com/2015/09/how-popular-is-kim-jong-un/

Let the supper profits begin.

bump bc of Holla Forumsyp raid

Post pics or texts like this

vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/

No one believes this is a photograph…..right?

It looks like a cartoonist drew it

Not sure if this is irony or is someone delusional enough to deny anything good about the DPRK

nobody gives a shit enough to raid your gay-ass board

The website this was on was from an American think tank and the pictures were partly from CNN. So yes it's real faggot.

kys

bump

Someone redpill me on the "North Korea shoots people who try to escape" thing

Not sure if I can "redpill" you on that but:
a) You're getting shot when you illegally enter a military area without permission and ignore multiple warnings of the guards pretty much everywhere in the world
b) The rate of defectors from North to South is actually significantly lower the the amount of East Germans who defected to the west, and the body count of East German border control is slightly higher
In conclusion, if you want to critisize North Korea for their travel restrictions, blame their emigration/immigration policy, not their border control, that's just a stupid "hurrdurr tolitarianism" meme from liberals

What????? More please.

I have an extremely hard time believing tankies when they say that North Korea's human rights violations are just liberal propaganda. If anyone who isn't an autistic fucking tankie could redpill me on this, I would very much appreciate it.

I also have a Maoist friend who shared some remarkable insight from Kim Il-Sung. I like him, but the subsequent Kims in the dynasty can suck a dick.

just go there on a trip and see for youself. don't try to steal any posters though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chondoist_Chongu_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_Party_of_Korea
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Social_Democratic_Party
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Front_for_the_Reunification_of_the_Fatherland

I don't think nobody denies that the DPRK did some Human Right Violations, but so does the USA every fucking day. The thing is we don't moralize about it or try to quantify is. It is also important to remember their situation.

Don't like Kim Jong Il, but I do like Kim Jong Un

are these parties actaully independent?

In addition to that: Most liberals whine about the fact that the DPRK has labor camps. Think about it for a second: Americans are complaining that a country has penal labor. You can literally show everybody a satellite image of an American prison, pretend it's from North Korea, and laugh at the liberals when they are trying to assess some ultra-inhumane practices while looking at the picture.

that is actually a great idea

liberals are so uninformed u could make an infograph showing america prison labor in action and justify the black people by saying that north korea once had slaves but only formally made slavery illegal even tho they still keep their black populations doing unpaid labor in prison camps, and watch how quickly liberals will condemn it once its an ebil gommunist dictatorshib

fully, but like the United States, all of the parties follow the same ideology, whether it be juche or liberalism

It's a united front as far as I know, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily undemocratic, democratic polticial processes can be differently expressed. The bourgeois stance that only multi-party democracy is true democracy is nothing but a meme. For example, the GDR didn't even have real elections, people just said "yes" or "no" to the National Unity Front (although you could cross out candidates), but how was the United Front created? By reciprocal, democratic and political work with worker organizations from which the nominees come from. Proletarian democracy is a participartory process.

That's also a good point. Every party in a bourgeois democracy is forced to protect private property rights and wage labor, which is guaranteed by constitution (which means dislodged from the political process). In socialist states, every party shares the opposite stance. Polticial systems are permeable by party ideologies, there is no dichotomy between ideologues of a party and "neutral" state bureaucracy. The state, as it constitutes itself, is already ideologically defined.

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