Jeremy "con artist" Corbyn

We told you but you didn't listen. Even the succdems that murdered Rosa were more radical than your favourite bourgeois politicians, yet you trust them. Good job being useful idiots for capital.

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So they are honest morons, great. How can Britain not afford what a place like Cuba can afford? Is Britain too poor for that? No, this is entirely something within the grasp of what politics can do. Look at all the money the British state has for NATO shite.

Fam, how hard is it to get into your skull that they're still abolishing tuition fees? Cuba's not writing off any student debt

I want her to call me names

It speaks to their disorganisation and poor press skills more than anything else. It's not like it was a manifesto pledge. (Pic 2 and 3. 3 shows that while the debt level was recognized, it was used to show why policy changes are needed rather than to promise to rescue those people.)

This irritates me because basically the only Labour government this has been true of is Blair's. One of the last actions of Callaghan's government was to up child benefits. (And I'm sure pensions, but I can't find evidence of that right now.)

Lol castro will write off my debt? Do I just have to go to cuba?

It's like reformism doesn't work.

Hmmm…

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Dear spineless succdem-enabling fagots,

is the British state too poor for that or not?

Reformism only fails if your end goal is socialism through reform alone.
Reformism is highly successful at what it does: Dull the pain of living in a capitalist society until capitalism is abolished through other means.

It's probably doable, but save for Corbyn randomly saying "I'll deal with it" once in a music magazine interview it was never something they promised to do. It wasn't in the manifesto, which was their actual program for government.

Corbyn and McDonnell have no experience of actually being in government (i.e. ministerial posts), they're rabble-rousing backbenchers. They probably don't early know what they can do.

Also for all everyone cries "succdem", they're the political descendants of Tony Benn, who everyone seems to agree was a socialist despite every single one of his plans for the British Economy in the 1970s and 80s consisting of "social democracy in one country with a few motorbike manufacturing co-ops."

Literally how!?

OP, that head line is about getting rid of student debt not tuition fees.
Learn to read articles Sargon.

Don't know, ask the fracture specialist. I'm just

It's like Corbyn isn't and was never a socialist and he is just trying to save capitalism.

Fucking leftists at it again.

Ancaps not liking thicc. The pedophile meme is right everytime

That was the original, not an edit.

How is that anorexic loli sex slave doing?

Well I swear I saw one where she was normal sized.

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all this socdem larping will not matter when capitalism collapses

Where did you find this pic?

Ok first of all, how dare you

Second,you probably just saw this extra cropped version and you assumed it was "normal size" you filthy anti-thicc lumpen

Wait… It isn't cropped. Shit

It's fair enough that they keep their options open.
The Tories will leave Labour a massive mess, personally I'd rather they didn't try to fix capitalism for the millionth time.

my problem is that i fear they eventually be trolled into saving it
prolly not tho, as we have THIS GUY on board,

gq-magazine.co.uk/article/seumas-milne-labour-spin-doctor-jeremy-corbyn

he will burn London before giving in to the EU that tbh.

You don't seem to understand how rabidly right wing the UK (middle England mainly) is. These cunts think Thatcher did nothing wrong.
Corbyn said he wanted to change the discussion which basically means Labour stops pretending to be nice Tories and shilling austerity-light as a their policy.
It's a small step to the left but the point is to be objectively successful in terms of policies, shift the overton window and destroy as far as possible the right wing class cuck mentality of ordinary Brits.

BUT IT WOULDN'T DELIVER A GLOBAL CLASSLESS STATELESS SOCIETY IN ONE TERM,
(btw i have no idea how to implement this but since corbyn won't do it he's useless and not worth like 10 minutes in a polling station lmao.)

Fuck everyone in this entire thread.

Jezza is the only reason there is still hope for market socialism. You tankies can already pop the gun in your mouths and fucking shoot yourselves, there will be none of your shitty revolutions happening. This is literally no better than nervous aut-retards swearing for the 100th time that Nazi masturbation fantasy will totally happen.

Be fucking realistic, you brainwashed piece of shit - WORLD DOES NOT OPERATE IN REVOLUTIONS. This shit only happens in rare set of circumstances. What happened in 2007–2008 was not enough to bring about anything at all despite major economies and companies falling apart for a short while.

If you want your fucking socialism, you need free education, universal healthcare, good infrastucture, generous welfare, trade unions, all that shit, until enough people stand on equal grounds that they might start to really ponder why there is a class divide instead of pondering about how to survive the next month paying rent and student loan debt.

You have your head stuck in the ass with ideology with flecks of shit flying from your mouth as you speak of your filthy, edgy "fuck corbyn" shit, and while you are at it, there are neoliberals or aut-retards out there who are more than eager to join forces with you to tear down that "problematic brocialist" or "throw that pinko commie out of helicopter", depending on whom you speak of.

Now call me "one of those Rosa warned about", "succdem", "traitor", "false-flagger", "fucking rose", call me all that shit. It only gets my cock harder. But will you actually address my arguments? Hell no. "b-because r-rosa s-s-said somewhere y-you a-are wrong BAWWW".

;-; what did I do?

Then we need to murder him quickly.

Edgy af

wasn't talking about you, I guess

the point is that reforms will roll back, or not be passed at all because they jeopardize the status quo. These reforms of yours only ever passed in times of frustration against the system at hand, when there was a threat of revolution. Why bother playing dice is the question.

You are, without a doubt, the biggest faggot ever to post on this board.

Because demanding we kill people or die is a pretty fucking tall order, buddy

But its perfectly fine when the same thing happens thousands of miles away for your own gain?

No, I didn't fucking say that at all.

It's not my fault that you are shilling for your snowflake version of capitalism in a socialist board.

Says the one waiting for "BASED Corbyn to gulag the queen xD"

You want an untrained group of people to fight the police, you're an absolute retard who will only make us look awful

Still edgy af

What?

t. Hillary shill

sorry but no

but that's exactly what your system does though. That's how social democracy ensures its survival, it's capitalism with a human face.

no reason that can't be fixed
yes, what's wrong with that you fucking idiot?
says the bleeding heart liberal, you'll have a better time over at /r/socialism.
>>>/reddit/

The police

That maybe, just perhaps, I'm not willing to put people's lives at risk? Especially in the states?

No, you just have no plan at all despite constantly shilling for violence without plan or purpose

You don't seem to understand how revolutions work, the police couldn't and didn't stop the bolsheviks, they couldn't stop mao, or any party where revolutions took off, the police are limited compared to people.
then just kill yourself I guess? You seem to have no problem putting "lives" at risk, except you fucking do with every day you sit on your fat ass wearing clothes and consuming commodities made by people working in environments full of carcinogens. You're not a leftist at all.
as opposed to radically supporting the status quo like you, just kill yourself dude. I don't need to have a full proof plan, since we aren't in a revolutionary epoch.

You're such a massive fucking hypocrite, and the world would be better off without you.

when i started "surfing" on the web, i never thought i would do this to some kind of neo-emoticon
i don't feel bad or gulty anyways, the one how draw her gave her some good tits

I'm not supporting shit you absolute fucking retard. I'm telling you that you have no god damn strategy and just want us to bash people's heads frantically and hope we win.

Come up with something that lasts, and quit bitching about how nobody is doing anything. Think for fucking once

This isn't universally true. After WW2 for example the risk of revolt was relatively low. Others (like the unsung Open University) were created at times of little risk and little popular demand, and others still are purely administrative tweaks (It poses little risk to the structural status quo to hike JSA by say £10 a month, but it would be an amazing palliative to suffering. The same would be true of tuition fees.)

You're always playing dice - refuse to take the dice and pass your reforms and the other guys get the dice to pass theirs. You think the bourgeois are just going to let a revolution start in slow motion? If it's not going to be postponed with a full employment policy and rising living standards, it's going to be postponed by sending nice men in black suits around to the houses of known agitators and telling the police not to investigate those gunshot noises. (Or it'll be brought down by OWS tier organising, more realistically.)

That's happening anyway. That's going to happen even if an armed response unit has to gun down 5000 LARPers.
But it'd happen a hell of a lot less (or nationally, our involvement would be much lower) if we ran a balanced trade policy with the rest of the world instead of a huge trade deficit. (An overall international policy of balanced trade, which the Keynesian clearing union would've ensured, would have ensured far lower exploitation of the third world - but whatever.)

Time. Time is a reason. Tell you what - you go out and train people to beat up the police, I'll go into government and see to it that they're being paid more at their normal jobs when they're not training.
The part where the police have guns and horses and water hoses and a love for killing the innocent.

The police in weak third-world tier states couldn't stop a revolution, therefore a country with a strong police force, surveillance state and one of the strongest armed forces in the world (who are if anything to the right of the public, having plotted to coup Harold Wilson.) would fall to revolution just as easily.

Yes, this sounds like a good plan.

You don't have to support the status quo to recognize it can be improved easily and with little costs. I hate the status quo, but the path to improving it is far clearer than that to obliterating it outright. I leave that to people I assume (apparently often errantly) to be smarter and further to the left.

An imperialist capitalist state exploiting both domestic workers and the third world with full employment and free tuition is going to improve the lives of far more people than an imperialist capitalist state exploiting both domestic workers and the third world with mass unemployment and ballooning student debts. I

Never did I say this you dumb fucking nonce, revolutions aren't senseless, they have a strategy and a plan to them. The fact that you conflate revolution with gang violence tells me you're a fed or Holla Forums (not that there's a difference).
Why don't you come up with a perfectly concrete system based on an age that has yet to come? Oh wait, it's fucking impossible, and a product of pure idealism. You don't understand revolutionary organization, or Marxism at all. Revolutions, and their goals are products of their time, to sit down and draw a plan prior to the storm is fucking wasteful.

Meanwhile, when you try and bring about the storm artificially by making life shit:

That's my point. You don't have a strategy. So why should I risk people's lives investing in this foolishness? Until someone comes with a plan, I'm not. I'm entirely all ears if someone has a plan

But nobody does

No, you don't understand military strategy

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nuff said

You mistake the forest for the trees, there will never be a peaceful transition of power and we both know it. The power-brokers aren't going to stand down and hand their capital to you with no conflict, you will have a coup on your hands. It's like you completely ignored that all revolutionaries prior to taking control of society were previously politicians for their respective policies. They came to the understanding that the reforms you want to pass, can't, and would only ever be transient.
You really are a wistful fucking idealist. Violence against police stations as isolated incidents won't accomplish anything.
Which will still happen under your system, sounds like the problem is endemic to the system.
Yes, and who are the things behind the military, or piloting those drones, oh right, people.
You legitimately think giving painkillers or bandaids is a solution to the problem, hahhahaha.

I'm an accelerationist now, funny how binary the scodem brain is.

amazing, please have an argument next time. Can you come up with a perfectly optimal calculation as to how you plan on wresting parliament and seizing control of the state peacefully, oh wait you don't; ergo your fucking idea is worthless.

You. Don't. Understand. Materialism.

I just did. I said you have no understanding of military strategy and you would lose and that's why nobody takes you seriously when you make these threats,

they're empty

too add, history isn't set in stone, it's made, people's actions produce history; if you're waiting for absolute certainty, then just kill yourself, since the only thing you can guarantee with certainty is your own death.

How the October Revolution was won had more to do with the layout of the fucking city than some magic presence, and Mao had to be on the run for years.

These things don't happen suddenly all at fucking once. When they do there's a reason for it.

let me guess, it's okay if the child consents?

Right if you're waiting for good strategy you might as well die.

When did I ever make threats you clown, I said them as they are, frustration and insecurity will breed violence, all that matters is how and where it's channeled. And of course, I'd be the guy who'd be in charge of everything. Fucking idiot.

non-sequitur, you didn't elaborate on anything, I said good strategies are born of the epoch they're in, not some fantasy produced out of thin air. But I can see that you can't think critically.

I mean, if you're talking about the Soviet Union that proved equally transient.
I was talking about outright preparing for a coup, actually. I'm just being dismissive because I know it's not going to happen. (But if it was, the approach still applies: It's your job to go out and prepare the revolution, it's my job to make life less shit while we wait for you to do yours.)
I mean, it's going to be far less common as less people go out and get their skulls cracked for having the gall to go on strike.
I'm not really sure of the point here. The bourgeoisie are people.

No, I think it's my job to administer painkillers. This has been the basis of my entire point.
The real question is: Where the fuck is the actual doctor? Everyone's glad to crow about how painkillers don't actually fix the injury, but then they go all quiet and refuse to do nothing except advocate we stop giving out painkillers to the suffering.

If you would do your job properly, my job would be redundant. Unfortunately for all of us, you feel whining about how I do my job is the most important thing right now.

I did. I said that the October Revolution had more to do with the layout of St. Petersburg than a singular mass of people, though a mass of people was certainly there. And the people who followed Mao followed him for years.

The fact, is, you need fucking strategy to win a revolution and win hearts, and to indicate otherwise

is fucking liberal.

You're leading people into nothing.

you socdems presented this fucking argument after Tsipras gave in to the EU, how is that coming along?
next time, you will tell me Macron is the real left.
go sit on a metal spike.

These aren't mutually exclusive.
The soldiers aren't bourgeois, their CO's maybe.
I was never against administering medicine, I just know that eventually people build a tolerance to it, or even worse its supply is cut short and people suffer withdrawal. I'm just aware that these reforms don't substantially alter society. I was never whining about your job, just pointing out that it's inevitably futile.

Explain how I will procure a strategy for a battle that has yet to come, or will come at all during my lifetime that wouldn't be pure fantasy as I have nothing to work with as of now.

By looking at the geography of the city would be a good fucking start.

You're such a dumb faggot. The policy was ALWAYS forward facing. It was never about abolishing existing debts and Corbyn was even brutally honest about that in a public appearance where he was asked directly "why should I vote for future tuition to be free if you won't pay off my past debts?". And he said, point blank, that they'll do what they can to ease the burden but can't make a blanket promise.

I don't know if you're too dumb to realize the difference between backlog of debt and tuition going into the future or if you're some dishonest PoS but there you go.

Okay, then what? What's my manpower, what weapons do I have, what weapons and forces do the enemies have, where are my supply lines etc etc etc. It's completely impossible, it's all defined in the era it occupies.

This is what I understand either. Accelerationism is the edgiest fucking shit I have heard in my entire life. Even aut-retards discussed openly about voting for Macron for France and Corbyn for UK because that will bring more brown people to Europe so they will have their r.ce war faster. Then there are retards over here who want the same by literally voting for tories or not voting at all. Good luck EVER justifying this to normies, that you want to fuck over their lives so you can keep on dreaming about your "inevitable revolution".

When capitalism collapses, it will collapse. It's inevitable, at some point it does collapse, the shit where rich get richer, poor stay poor can't go on forever. In the age of internet and social media, it's easier for people to organize and spread knowledge than ever before.

In meanwhile, why not campaign to make society more just, democratic, equal, just like Jezza been saying, so that when the inevitable DOES happen, more proles will feel solidarity amongst ourselves since they are pretty much on equal standing and on this freefall together, instead of people being so different in their education, wealth and personal tragedies that the race becomes the unifying factor instead, and nazi propaganda will be what drives people to kill bourgeois instead, because they are jews or something who deny them their "racial pride" and kill those "others" who stand in the way.

I don't argue that they are. I argue that they're complimentary. I've just decided which job I'm going to do.
I presumed you were making a point about those people being vulnerable to bullets.
Many people in this thread give off the impression of complaining about it and Corbyn, getting irritated that people would even recognize that a Corbyn government would make their lives less shit, however temporarily. Far too many people seem to take the viewpoint that it's an either-or scenario, as though spending 10 minutes in a polling booth to bring about a Corbyn government constitutes an abandonment of revolution on their part, rather than an action that's meaningless at worst.

I would raise a limited case that reforms can actually substantially alter society by nudging things in the right direction - as a simplified example, there's a view that much more students see university-time as an "investment" now rather than time to explore things more generally - so in nudging terms, free tuition makes students more relaxed and more willing to read Marx if pressed by lefty activists rather than revise their subject for the 50th time because they can't afford to fail.

That's the primary problem. The only thing on your side is Britain is a primarily metropolitan area, it's control, is within the bounds of a tight city, London. Military action will be limited to troops, but that's also your primary weakness, because they'll just send in really fucking trained people.

No, it's not impossible. You're just really fucking lazy, and unable to wait when the time is right to strike. You don't have a feel for the place you're trying to free. You just want to fucking zerg rush and hope for the best.

That's not how ANY OF THIS works

What kind of socdems are you talking about? Because I always have a fucking blast when tankies think I am a neoliberal just because I oppose a bloody revolution.

youtube.com/watch?v=HyoLwplKUV0

You can change people's viewpoints, you can change their world-view, but how will you get them to adopt socialism, without altering the state in such a way that in compliments the dotp without well, rendering yourself prone to assassination? This all leads to a revolution the way I see it.

Never said I wanted to zerg-rush, never said I wanted to take control of military ops instead of leaving that to others who are superior in their knowledge you idiot. Revolutionary organizations exceed what their militaristic functions perform.

I think people can be too naive as well. And just thinking, "Well someone else will do it", is lazy and not in the least bit prepared.

Yes, but one would think that a revolutionary organization would have an understanding of military strategy prior to its formation. I also never asked you to join the first one that comes by.

I'm not entirely sure of the question.
If you mean "how will you avoid being assassinated when the revolution comes?" then I don't know. Maybe I won't.

True, that's why I'm saying if you don't see it, it isn't time. But time is also a factor here. I don't know, I just think condemning everyone who doesn't want instantaneous revolutionary violence isn't seeing the big strategical power of nudging people into that politically.

I mean, turning people socialist leaning without them knowing it, along the way until Capitalism really starts falling apart.

I think Britain is a great place for revolution because it's an island, and not only an island, an island where its power is concentrated in tight urban areas that you can't drone, or bomb. Because you'd be putting people's lives at risk if you did, that makes military action severely limited.

But we aren't fucking ready for that part yet, are we?

sucyposters get the bullet, too

Why

Milne & McDonnel will lead the British proletariat to a new dawn.

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he said he does not even mind hard brexit is he can bring the euro down…

>Labour MPs experienced their new director of communications for the first time during a raucous meeting of the parliamentary party.

Don't. Ever. Fucking. Trust. A. Succdem.

Does the UK have the same problems with bloated administrative spending as the US does?

No, but it's a potent meme.

I still trust Corbyn just fine.

Oh, well that's too bad. I really have the urge to purge some humanitards and Deans.

Marx studied humanities, fam

I don't think Corbyn's a suckdem, more a demsoc.
But he has tone things down for now.

That's why he never made anything out of his life. Should have gone the STEM route.

It's the same thing

But the humanities were finished with Marx. Everything else is revisionism or footnotes.

no u

Fuck you, student debt is killing peoples futures and holding back the economy. It could be written off and it would only effect porky. It's a bullshit meme that a bunch of this type of debt is held by pensions.

Corybn is a fraud

Why are you dodging my question faggot?

Will Castro pay all my student loans? You claim that the Cuban state provides this service.

M-Muh Economy!

It's already dead dumbshit

Sort of. Blair for example didn't really trust public sector workers who delivered services, so he helped push towards a greater bureaucracy that just generates reams of fictional statistics.

However every government elected on a pledge to cut red tape invariably just cuts frontline services, either for ideological reasons or because the data they use to determine what to obliterate is collated by the managers who need obliterated.

However this is also true.

I have the urge to purge you now tbh.
(Also, humanities degrees aren't really something I'd associate with the management class.)

Is student debt even held privately?
Always thought the Student Loans company was state owned.

It's probably not all that big a drag on the economy, mind you. Truthfully
*looks to make sure only left wingers are around and not blairites*
It's not all that big a deal except for the ideological picture it paints. (i.e. what it says about us as a society - it says horrible things) It really does act more like a de-facto graduate tax with an income band. It's not like private debt where there's a risk of having stuff taken off you if you don't pay it off eventually.
(Without going into too much detail, I'm not speaking as a detached student-loan free person here either.)

But I emphasise that I'd write it off, just to make that point about what sort of a society we're in. (And also because most people won't pay it back anyway.) If ever you encounter a Blairite who says it shouldn't be done, break his legs. (Even if Corbyn doesn't do it, he's said it should be done.) If you tell him that it's not really a big deal in practical terms compared to reams of other issues, I'll break yours with hammers.

Assuming bad faith here is ridiculous. Corbyn and McDonnell have spent decades as backbench irrelevances who've never held so much as the chancellorship of the duchy of Lancaster. If he was a fraud, he's a ridiculously stupid fraud for waiting until he was geriatric to come within a whisker of power when he could've just toed the party line and being handed a ministry and an expense account under Blair.

So is this what it's all about to you, looking good?

The UK student loans book was sold off to the private sector

Are you pretending to be retarded?

Because you're so shitty

Oh shit, missed that.

Although if I'm reading right it's only a certain set of loans rather than the entire thing.

this is now a gotoposting thread

artist is xxxx52 for those who wanna know

S-so much for the peaceful, moderate socdems

The problem is all the things you say are "needed" for socialism are unobtainable in capitalism because they hurt porky's profits, and he's designed the entire system to benefit him alone. Any reforms that can be made will be piecemeal and can just as easily be removed when porky gets threatened.

But the problem becomes do you wait for a revolution with most people struggling to get by on a day to day basis and don't have the time or energy to consider the solution or try to work with a system designed by the ruling class for themselves?

fuck off

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kek

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I watched the interview, I think McDonnell didn't want to get bogged down into explaining where the money would come from as £100bn is a spooky amount of money for a country "with no money left".

Rosa-san is worth 10x the kulaks murdered by gommies

This

Can anyone really explain the difference, all I can see is that maybe, democratic socialists are just real social democrats, before they went neoliberal or when social democrats were marxist